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Thread: Ferrari SF90

  1. #361
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    Analysis by Mark Hughes of SF90, worth a read - https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/o...nder-delivered

  2. #362
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    nice article. I still think our car is good and just needs to be dialled in properly, and not a problem of design philosophy gone wrong. Fingers crossed.
    Silently, like a shadow

  3. #363
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    Ferrari bringing a brand new rear wing, which is much larger than the ones Mercedes, RBR, Renault have. We have a top speed advantage, hope we can find a compromise and find some rear downforce with that larger wing, which could be crucial in that low-medium speed corners.



    https://twitter.com/tgruener/status/...440024064?s=19

  4. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vettel165 View Post
    Ferrari bringing a brand new rear wing, which is much larger than the ones Mercedes, RBR, Renault have. We have a top speed advantage, hope we can find a compromise and find some rear downforce with that larger wing, which could be crucial in that low-medium speed corners.

    https://i.postimg.cc/kMNqqNcN/D4-c-SIHXk-AARCZi.jpg

    https://twitter.com/tgruener/status/...440024064?s=19
    This also shows that ferrari haven’t solved their aero issue yet ??? They are depending on bigger RW & strong PU for good benefit in slow speed corners.
    "I've always believed that you should never, ever give up and you should always keep fighting even when there's only a slightest chance " : - Michael Schumacher

  5. #365
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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    This also shows that ferrari haven’t solved their aero issue yet ??? They are depending on bigger RW & strong PU for good benefit in slow speed corners.
    we seem to lack front end grip, possibly due to our front wing design
    maybe ferrari are working hard at coming up with a front wing like the merc's that will work with our aero design....in the mean time we do what we gotta do to stay afloat....
    ...the new SF90 in the MATTE RED, to me it looks amazing. Let's hope it's gonna be as FAST as it looks.


  6. #366
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    How does big RW result in theory that FW is low DF?

  7. #367
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    [QUOTE=Vettel165;1005746]Ferrari bringing a brand new rear wing, which is much larger than the ones Mercedes, RBR, Renault have.

    The much larger Ferrari wing is just to accommodate fitting the MISSION WINNER banner across the wing!

  8. #368
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    [QUOTE=Brembo;1005777]
    Quote Originally Posted by Vettel165 View Post
    Ferrari bringing a brand new rear wing, which is much larger than the ones Mercedes, RBR, Renault have.

    The much larger Ferrari wing is just to accommodate fitting the MISSION WINNER banner across the wing!
    .....good one....they gotta keep the sponsors happy even if we hardly get any performance out of it.....LOL
    ...the new SF90 in the MATTE RED, to me it looks amazing. Let's hope it's gonna be as FAST as it looks.


  9. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkchild View Post
    How does big RW result in theory that FW is low DF?
    Dont have a clue really. But let me take a guess, our major problem we have is a lack of front downforce, generated by the front wing. Our rear wing can create amazingly very little drag, resulting a much higher top end speed, comparing to the Mercedes. With adding more drag on the rear of car, they might have more potentially rear downforce available. In theory that would mean that they could add some more wing on the front of the car, and the car might generate more heath into the tyres, providing better lap times. But adding more rear wing at the back of the car has to be also balanced with a good-balanced front wing. If not the car could slide a lot around the circuit, damaging the tyres in progress. That is all I might know.

    We also have a new rear, floor of the car, hope that could add also some rear downforce on the car. Seb loves a good stable rear of the car, with it he can do its magic as in 2009-2013 era. Without it he lacks the confidence, and have to compromise his turning, he will brake early into the corner, then manouver the car for a good exit, in a V shape, then will go on the power hard and hit the apex. Its a special driving style he has, with it to work you need good grip, otherwise I admit he sometimes lacks some pace (with overdriving the car). With a lack of front grip he can deal it much better, as the lack of the rear. He also loves the car to have just a bit of oversteer. But this is his driving style which I analyse in 12 years of watching him and supporting him.

    Cheers.
    Last edited by Vettel165; 26th April 2019 at 06:02.

  10. #370
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    Analysis: The Baku upgrades Ferrari hope will close the gap to Mercedes

    https://www.racefans.net/2019/04/26/...p-to-mercedes/
    #KeepFightingMichael | #CiaoJules

  11. #371
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    [QUOTE=Brembo;1005777]
    Quote Originally Posted by Vettel165 View Post
    Ferrari bringing a brand new rear wing, which is much larger than the ones Mercedes, RBR, Renault have.

    The much larger Ferrari wing is just to accommodate fitting the MISSION WINNER banner across the wing!
    that was a good one

  12. #372
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    Anyone know when Mercedes is using Rear Wheel Steering because they seem to carry much more speed into corners and then keep it and then some. Whereas Ferrari are slow in and mechanically not the same from the onboards then struggling in terms of optimum balance. It seems that either it's the car is not replicating the optimum in terms of efficiency and not mechanically working the tyres within the temperature range on a consistent basis or the car engine chassis ERS and combustion system is not working together harmoniously it seems that it works in too narrow of a window and depending on the circuit whereas they work no matter the conditions, track, etc.. I.e. It seems they have a larger window in which they can operate. Add on top that the management and employee structure is not spread out as in more people working alongside each other i.e. not as dynamic as Mercedes. We need to do everything from the car, strategy drivers, pitwall, reliability performance and tactics to beat them. Also we need to be more aggressive in development of the car in all areas that it is weak + after this go after Mercedes in terms of rule clarifications critique every aspect of their car which may border on illegal versus the regulations. They had no problem asking about our battery tech last year so we need to do the same.

  13. #373
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    I have also wondered about Merc's RWS and how it helps, although I don't think it's actually RWS but something within their electronics that mimmic a RWS effect. I am not technically minded but I am sure there was talk of Ferrari looking at something similar but discounted it for some reason, it must be legal otherwise surely the FIA would have looked at it in depth, just like our batteries last year. Valid points raised anyway.

  14. #374
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    Quote Originally Posted by AJ_Hussain92 View Post
    Anyone know when Mercedes is using Rear Wheel Steering because they seem to carry much more speed into corners and then keep it and then some. Whereas Ferrari are slow in and mechanically not the same from the onboards then struggling in terms of optimum balance. It seems that either it's the car is not replicating the optimum in terms of efficiency and not mechanically working the tyres within the temperature range on a consistent basis or the car engine chassis ERS and combustion system is not working together harmoniously it seems that it works in too narrow of a window and depending on the circuit whereas they work no matter the conditions, track, etc.. I.e. It seems they have a larger window in which they can operate. Add on top that the management and employee structure is not spread out as in more people working alongside each other i.e. not as dynamic as Mercedes. We need to do everything from the car, strategy drivers, pitwall, reliability performance and tactics to beat them. Also we need to be more aggressive in development of the car in all areas that it is weak + after this go after Mercedes in terms of rule clarifications critique every aspect of their car which may border on illegal versus the regulations. They had no problem asking about our battery tech last year so we need to do the same.
    They use this "rear wheel steer" when braking, any braking into corners, but not all corners, mostly slow corners. They have a certain speed, above which they cannot use as the car will loose grip at the rear as you cannot apply imbalance braking at high speed and slide off. They use it into the corners, up to the apex or little over the apex. If you look, they brake very late and stay on the brakes up to the apex, so even when braking, they are able to turn and carry much faster speed and help turn the car. When they accelerate, they are not as good as us. We have very good traction aided with our engine.

  15. #375
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    Quote Originally Posted by mardyrt View Post
    They use this "rear wheel steer" when braking, any braking into corners, but not all corners, mostly slow corners. They have a certain speed, above which they cannot use as the car will loose grip at the rear as you cannot apply imbalance braking at high speed and slide off. They use it into the corners, up to the apex or little over the apex. If you look, they brake very late and stay on the brakes up to the apex, so even when braking, they are able to turn and carry much faster speed and help turn the car. When they accelerate, they are not as good as us. We have very good traction aided with our engine.
    Thanks for that mardyrt, but I wonder why we haven't been able to incorporate something similar, are you saying that our mechanical traction/grip is good and we don't need a Merc-like system, because to me it would be a no-brainer to follow their example.

  16. #376
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    Quote Originally Posted by wisepie View Post
    I have also wondered about Merc's RWS and how it helps, although I don't think it's actually RWS but something within their electronics that mimmic a RWS effect. I am not technically minded but I am sure there was talk of Ferrari looking at something similar but discounted it for some reason, it must be legal otherwise surely the FIA would have looked at it in depth, just like our batteries last year. Valid points raised anyway.

    They use the brake by wire system with the tolerances that are given by the FIA. They must have given the tolerances for left and right wheels and the amount of brakes applied from the pedal and how much is seen at the wheels. So they use those tolerances. They tighten the tolerances for the system when they design and then, whatever the gap that is left when compared with the FIA is the actual braking differences. Lets say FIA allows 5% difference, maybe less, but lets just say its a 5% from pedal to the applied force at the wheel. From right wheel to left wheel it can add up to 10% difference. So, if they reduce their tolerance to lets say to 3%, still a 2% left for each wheel. Then, it becomes 4% when you compare from wheel to wheel. So, 4% difference from right wheel to the left wheel can be applied. It might not seem like much, but it is enough to help you turn the car. It might be that they have paired it with the input in the steering angle, so more angle, the greater the difference.

  17. #377
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    Quote Originally Posted by wisepie View Post
    Thanks for that mardyrt, but I wonder why we haven't been able to incorporate something similar, are you saying that our mechanical traction/grip is good and we don't need a Merc-like system, because to me it would be a no-brainer to follow their example.
    You are welcome sir. Well, I am saying we need a system like this, but we have good traction out of the corners. So, if we have a similar system like theirs, we will be much faster, we loose a lot of speed into the corners, the apex speeds are much faster for them, sometimes, in the range of 12kph. Thats a huge speed difference. We cannot brake and turn at the same time, we can only brake in a straight line, then turn, so we have to brake a bit earlier and they brake so late and carry a lot of speed, so they are much faster in the entry, thats where we loose most of the speed. Because they have high entry speed, they can can catch up with our good corner exit speed.

  18. #378
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    For years now lewis was know for his special style of braking technique .

  19. #379
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    That is very interesting and clever.
    Either we get it banned or we join the ship.

    I know we loose alot in slow corners compared to the Mercs. Do RB loose as much?

    Have Mercedes improved alot since last year or are we worse than we were last year(slow corners)?

    Is our simple front suspension part of the problem?


    Quote Originally Posted by mardyrt View Post
    They use the brake by wire system with the tolerances that are given by the FIA. They must have given the tolerances for left and right wheels and the amount of brakes applied from the pedal and how much is seen at the wheels. So they use those tolerances. They tighten the tolerances for the system when they design and then, whatever the gap that is left when compared with the FIA is the actual braking differences. Lets say FIA allows 5% difference, maybe less, but lets just say its a 5% from pedal to the applied force at the wheel. From right wheel to left wheel it can add up to 10% difference. So, if they reduce their tolerance to lets say to 3%, still a 2% left for each wheel. Then, it becomes 4% when you compare from wheel to wheel. So, 4% difference from right wheel to the left wheel can be applied. It might not seem like much, but it is enough to help you turn the car. It might be that they have paired it with the input in the steering angle, so more angle, the greater the difference.

  20. #380
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    Supposedly new nano paint,and generic aerodynamic upgrades in Spain
    The Nano paint to dispose of heat better.

    Source automoto.it
    ...the new SF90 in the MATTE RED, to me it looks amazing. Let's hope it's gonna be as FAST as it looks.


  21. #381
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    Quote Originally Posted by mardyrt View Post
    You are welcome sir. Well, I am saying we need a system like this, but we have good traction out of the corners. So, if we have a similar system like theirs, we will be much faster, we loose a lot of speed into the corners, the apex speeds are much faster for them, sometimes, in the range of 12kph. Thats a huge speed difference. We cannot brake and turn at the same time, we can only brake in a straight line, then turn, so we have to brake a bit earlier and they brake so late and carry a lot of speed, so they are much faster in the entry, thats where we loose most of the speed. Because they have high entry speed, they can can catch up with our good corner exit speed.
    Thanks again mardyrt, at least I now have some understanding of how it can help the Merc drivers, I still wonder why Ferrari don't seem to have incorporated something similar into the SF90, as I'm sure they investigated it last year.

  22. #382
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    Quote Originally Posted by erikejw View Post
    That is very interesting and clever.
    Either we get it banned or we join the ship.

    I know we loose alot in slow corners compared to the Mercs. Do RB loose as much?

    Have Mercedes improved alot since last year or are we worse than we were last year(slow corners)?

    Is our simple front suspension part of the problem?
    I think with the RB, they got a lot of downforce, Mercedes, they do not have a lot of downforce like the RB, but more than us, but they make up for it with a the rear steer, or brake steer. They can carry speed even when they dont brake, Mercedes are good on the corner entry, thats where they make their time on us. Red bulls, they do not have a good engine like us, so they loose time on acceleration.

  23. #383
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    Quote Originally Posted by FerrariF60 View Post
    Supposedly new nano paint,and generic aerodynamic upgrades in Spain
    The Nano paint to dispose of heat better.

    Source automoto.it
    They got to work on the tires. They have to get it sorted out this weekend, after this weekend if Ferrari do not have an understanding on the tires and how to set up the car and what is wrong, they have a problem with the car, the season will be difficult.

  24. #384
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    [it.motorsport] New rear wing and new front wing at the SpanishGP to put more energy into the tires.

    If this setup does'nt work, we're in for a long season. Also, IF it does'nt work and we're still off Merc's pace during the race, then if I was Leclerc I would look out for myself and dominate Vettel; the heck with team orders and tire strat.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  25. #385
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    From what I've read Ferrari look more aggressive with bringing updates. However, not sure about that and of course it's too early to tell. Mercedes have always been perfect when it comes to in-season development so I'm not overly optimistic.


    I agree with Gonzales. Leclerc should not follow team orders if we are battling Red Bull for second. Ferrari should not give them as well as that will only hurt a young lion's reputation and stocks.

  26. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy View Post
    From what I've read Ferrari look more aggressive with bringing updates. However, not sure about that and of course it's too early to tell. Mercedes have always been perfect when it comes to in-season development so I'm not overly optimistic.


    I agree with Gonzales. Leclerc should not follow team orders if we are battling Red Bull for second. Ferrari should not give them as well as that will only hurt a young lion's reputation and stocks.
    have to agree....the way it looks after 4 races, it's Mercedes's championship to be lost now; they were pretty good so far with 4x 1-2 finishes.....and knowing how good their development is during the season, Ferrari has a LONG and hard battle ahead of them....

    first off, we need to bring updates that put more/generate more heat into those tires, because deep down i think we have a good car wiht lots of potential in it....it JUST needs to be unleashed, somehow....

    so the next couple of races, maybe even 3 including Canada (which i will attend, and so far i dont' have that warm and fuzzy feeling if you knwo what i mean), it will be a MAKE OR BREAK for Ferrari....because if we are still below the Mercs in terms of speed and outright performance, and they rack up some more 1-2's......then i'm afraid to say it, but, WE ARE DONE FELLAS FOR THE SEASON.....WE ARE DONE!!!!!
    ...the new SF90 in the MATTE RED, to me it looks amazing. Let's hope it's gonna be as FAST as it looks.


  27. #387
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    Here's to a Ferrari 1-2 next weekend!


    Disappointed Since 2010

  28. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giallo 550 View Post
    Here's to a Ferrari 1-2 next weekend!
    from your mouth to God's ears mate.....man oh man do we NEED that!!!!
    ...the new SF90 in the MATTE RED, to me it looks amazing. Let's hope it's gonna be as FAST as it looks.


  29. #389
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    Yes it's time we get a perfect weekend.

  30. #390
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    In testing, Mercedes was fastest in Sector 3 and they will still be. It all depends on how much Ferrari can gain in first 2 sectors. Qualifying is all that matters, Ferrari's race pace in Barcelona should be as good as Mercedes if not better. I am optimistic that qualifying will be a bit better than 2017.

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