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Thread: Ferrari SF90

  1. #481
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    Concept is wrong and we have no development route, only a B chassis will solve it now....
    It will be a decade this year that we have not won a title. I think we are looking at about 3 years of rebuilding before being able to consistently challenge for the title.
    #KeepFightingMichael | #CiaoJules

  2. #482
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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    Merc did have same issue in testing1, but they did come with new car in testing2. Such is their Development.
    Ferrari same car in testing1, testing2, same in last 4 races, come Barcelona even with new pieces they aren't near mercs.
    They did not have to change the whole aero design of the car....looks like we have went down the wrong route with our front wing concept. Should have realised when we had gone for the opposite from Merc and RBR...

    I read that our way was good short term but has no long term gains.
    Forza Ferrari

  3. #483
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    Hoping that Ferrari could still consider building a "B" chasis. We have more races left, just look at Merc, they have solved their front wing problem in just if I am not mistaken only in a span of 3 weeks after Barcelona pre season testing.

  4. #484
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    Quote Originally Posted by arcabe View Post
    Hoping that Ferrari could still consider building a "B" chasis. We have more races left, just look at Merc, they have solved their front wing problem in just if I am not mistaken only in a span of 3 weeks after Barcelona pre season testing.
    i personally think it's too late now to introduce a B chassis....it takes time to do that
    if they would have realized that in winter testing they could have worked on one all this time and introduced it by Canada or so....

    oh well, lots of time to work on 2020 concept
    ...the new SF90 in the MATTE RED, to me it looks amazing. Let's hope it's gonna be as FAST as it looks.


  5. #485
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    They did not have to change the whole aero design of the car....looks like we have went down the wrong route with our front wing concept. Should have realised when we had gone for the opposite from Merc and RBR...

    I read that our way was good short term but has no long term gains.
    yup ..totally agree with you...!!
    "I've always believed that you should never, ever give up and you should always keep fighting even when there's only a slightest chance " : - Michael Schumacher

  6. #486
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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    Merc did have same issue in testing1, but they did come with new car in testing2. Such is their Development.
    Ferrari same car in testing1, testing2, same in last 4 races, come Barcelona even with new pieces they aren't near mercs.
    As Greig mentioned ... It seems that Merc did something no team did before. It went with a basic (modular) concept into the first week and gather data over data to decide which way/route to follow. I mean when you look on the pics of the first test week this basis car didnt had any specific badge boards etc. Like a proof of concept car. And part of the gathered data of the first week was seen in week two. And from that on they build piece by piece a solid car with a basic design where the know what to build on.

    And this, I think, is missing with this car. It seems no one has a real glue where to turn the screws here and there that the car is fast enough to compete with Merc.

    If there is a B-spec it must already in the Pipeline, otherwise you loose to much resources for 2020, also the question where and how to test it, what kind of influence it has on suspension design etc. etc. ... maybe it is already (best secret kept)... and maybe that's why Vettel said we need to wait until Canada if ...

    even if the design dept. switches the concept for 2020 you're missing one year of experience with this car ... and that is a lot ... Look to RB ... they gained so much knowledge with the diffuser thing that no one reached them until it was banned and the engines changed
    Last edited by Senna4Ever; 13th May 2019 at 13:53.
    "If I was driving for Red Bull [from 2008] probably I would have more championships, but because they were dominating between 2010 and 2014 probably I would never have driven for Ferrari. I am very happy and very proud to drive for Ferrari, all my time there.

  7. #487
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    Quote Originally Posted by springfield View Post
    No way Mercedes developed a whole new car in 2 weeks. They were planning on bringing that car to test 2 in the first place.
    But I do agree with Ferrari's lack of updates. They keep analysing stuff and falling behind everybody. Maybe it's time they get a non-Italian team boss, current situation clearly doesn't work.
    That is correct. They always planned the 2nd one.
    The first was practically a mule to test certain things whilst they carried on developing no2.

    The media was completely suckered.

  8. #488
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    Quote Originally Posted by evo_spook View Post
    The media was completely suckered.
    The F1 media have been around long enough to know they are talking bull, they do it to cause a stir and generate excitement. They probably understand the sport better than most. We should never take what they say at face value.

  9. #489
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    Quote Originally Posted by jragona View Post
    The F1 media have been around long enough to know they are talking bull, they do it to cause a stir and generate excitement. They probably understand the sport better than most. We should never take what they say at face value.
    Is anything reported in February right?

  10. #490
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    I think there's more at work than just aero for 2019.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  11. #491
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    i wonder if Ferrari will test the original suspension intended for the SF90 in this week's barca test.
    because as we all know it, they reverted back to a more conventional suspension (aka sf71h) after the incident in 2nd week of testing

    maybe that is one of the reasons as to why we cannot work the front tires better (bring them into the window) so that we have a more balanced car....just grasping here, not like i'm an expert or anything
    ...the new SF90 in the MATTE RED, to me it looks amazing. Let's hope it's gonna be as FAST as it looks.


  12. #492
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    Quote Originally Posted by FerrariF60 View Post
    i wonder if Ferrari will test the original suspension intended for the SF90 in this week's barca test.
    because as we all know it, they reverted back to a more conventional suspension (aka sf71h) after the incident in 2nd week of testing

    maybe that is one of the reasons as to why we cannot work the front tires better (bring them into the window) so that we have a more balanced car....just grasping here, not like i'm an expert or anything
    Rake too. We need to get away from this RedBull rake philosophy given the suspension upgrade. Merc's rake is less than 1 degree I believe.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  13. #493
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    I have a doubt. I hope someone can give me some light. What's the real problem with our car? Lack of front end by a low downforce concept in the rear wing, so we have huge amount of understeer? Or, does we lack mechanical grip? Both will contribute with our lack of speed in slow speed corners.

  14. #494
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    Quote Originally Posted by totox View Post
    I have a doubt. I hope someone can give me some light. What's the real problem with our car? Lack of front end by a low downforce concept in the rear wing, so we have huge amount of understeer? Or, does we lack mechanical grip? Both will contribute with our lack of speed in slow speed corners.
    If anyone knows then please let Binotto know as well....
    Forza Ferrari

  15. #495
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    If anyone knows then please let Binotto know as well....
    ha, ha....no one really knows and neither does Ferrari, they're clueless...

    if Binotto don't fix this soon, i'm afraid he's gonna be teh escape goat this year.....someone's gotta take the heat
    ...the new SF90 in the MATTE RED, to me it looks amazing. Let's hope it's gonna be as FAST as it looks.


  16. #496
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    Quote Originally Posted by FerrariF60 View Post
    ha, ha....no one really knows and neither does Ferrari, they're clueless...

    if Binotto don't fix this soon, i'm afraid he's gonna be teh escape goat this year.....someone's gotta take the heat
    Arrivabene was the scapegoat last year. Do people want to make Binotto one as well? Do people ever learn? On the other hand, Binotto should have stayed in Maranello doing what he does best. The only way to even have a remote chance of turning all this around is if Binotto puts all his focus, 100%, at the factory operations. Ferrari need him where he can make the biggest difference and have the biggest impact.

  17. #497
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    If anyone knows then please let Binotto know as well....
    They know the issue in fact. The missing part is the solution.

  18. #498
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    If anyone knows then please let Binotto know as well....
    Binotto will look into this forum..!!
    "I've always believed that you should never, ever give up and you should always keep fighting even when there's only a slightest chance " : - Michael Schumacher

  19. #499
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    Quote Originally Posted by 512 TR View Post
    Arrivabene was the scapegoat last year. Do people want to make Binotto one as well? Do people ever learn? On the other hand, Binotto should have stayed in Maranello doing what he does best. The only way to even have a remote chance of turning all this around is if Binotto puts all his focus, 100%, at the factory operations. Ferrari need him where he can make the biggest difference and have the biggest impact.
    What about mekies? Does him ever gonna start working with us?

  20. #500
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    Quote Originally Posted by totox View Post
    I have a doubt. I hope someone can give me some light. What's the real problem with our car? Lack of front end by a low downforce concept in the rear wing, so we have huge amount of understeer? Or, does we lack mechanical grip? Both will contribute with our lack of speed in slow speed corners.
    Binotto:

    We are losing a lot in each corner, not only in the last sector, I think each single corner we are slow, quite a lot of understeer. It’s not only downforce, it’s more than that, it’s something which we need really to analyses and understand.

    Any early conclusion today will be a wrong conclusion. it will take some days to really have a proper analysis and try to understand. It’s a matter of balance, a matter of downforce, it’s a matter of maybe even car concept. I think [while] we do not have the answer, I would like not to go through it.
    As you can see, Binotto doesn't yet know the problem and it will take some time, 2 days of test could be useful plus a few more races. Marko has already declared that Red Bull will be using this test to improve their slow corner performance so they can close in on Mercedes.

  21. #501
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    As per Mark Hughes, Mercedes brought one of their most significant aero upgrades to Spain like a radically reconfigured bargeboard and that alone gave them 3 tenths.

    By general consensus, the heat ensured the track was considerably slower than during the cool of winter testing. Furthermore, we can’t know exactly what was being run back in January, but it makes an interesting comparison nonetheless of individual cars then to now. Ferrari was quickest in January with a 1min 16.2sec lap, a time that Vettel pretty much equalled on a slower track on Saturday. Mercedes had matched that 16.2sec on the final day of testing, but Bottas’ pole was 1min 15.4sec. Mercedes had found 0.8sec, around 0.3sec of which was this upgrade. Red Bull had found 0.7sec since then, Haas and Toro Rosso 0.3sec. The rest qualified slower than they’d managed on the faster January track.

  22. #502
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    Quote Originally Posted by totox View Post
    What about mekies? Does him ever gonna start working with us?
    I have no idea. All I know is that Binotto has two job positions and that is unsustainable in the long run. During a race week, especially on another continent, he's basicly away from Maranello for that entire week. How is that supposed to work? Also, if he's calling the shots on the pitwall, he's doing a poor job of it. Previous races, OK, but making the same mistake twice in the same race is beyond poor.

  23. #503
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    Binnotto wanted to be the blue leader he has to much pasta in his mouth and it's chooking him. Arrivabene is laughing his head off his shoulders this time last year Ferrari were the flavour of f1 really taking the fight to Merc under arrivabene his approach aggressive .Now a gentle passive guy is at the helm and bang Ferrari are going out the door backwards.

  24. #504
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    Quote Originally Posted by chinmay View Post
    Binotto:



    As you can see, Binotto doesn't yet know the problem and it will take some time, 2 days of test could be useful plus a few more races. Marko has already declared that Red Bull will be using this test to improve their slow corner performance so they can close in on Mercedes.
    After Bahrain GP, I think there was a in season test. What did ferrari gain ???
    Other teams improved from where they are. Look at haas, they’ve said we figured out the tyre window.
    Renault their aero package gave them .2ths gain it seems. RB they always improve we know that.
    Ferrari didn’t get better from there on.

    I don’t think current test too will give solutions to ferrari. It’s the same old stuff.
    “We understood car weaknesses from the test, analysing it hope we move forward in the coming races”.
    "I've always believed that you should never, ever give up and you should always keep fighting even when there's only a slightest chance " : - Michael Schumacher

  25. #505
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    I see Ferrari getting a good slagging off by nearly everyone - but they took a risk and it didn't pay off. They're the only team to have taken the fight to Mercedes in the hybrid era so it's unfair to belittle their efforts so much.
    CAVALLINO RAMPANTE PER SEMPRE

  26. #506
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    Ferrari concedes 2019 car concept may be wrong

    Ferrari has admitted that it may have got its car concept wrong this year, in the wake of its Spanish Grand Prix defeat.
    The Italian outfit had hoped that an aerodynamic and engine upgrade introduced for Barcelona last weekend would help lift its form and allow it to beat Mercedes.

    But it endured another tough weekend as Mercedes was untouchable and it failed to finish on the podium after Max Verstappen grabbed third place for Red Bull.

    Ferrari team boss Mattia Binotto said an investigation was now under way to get to the bottom of its struggles, as he says the team may have to concede that the concept it adopted this year was wrong.

    When the 2019 cars were launched, Mercedes and Ferrari took totally different paths with their front wing designs. Mercedes had opted for a high-downforce solution, while Ferrari had taken a route to better manage outwash and improve efficiency.

    But with Ferrari aware that it was slower on all corners in Barcelona, it now has to urgently address what has gone wrong.

    "We are losing a lot in each corner, not only in the last sector, it is each single corner we are slow," said Binotto. "[There is] quite a lot of understeer. Is that only downforce or is it more than that? That is something that we really need to analyse and understand.

    "Any conclusion today will be a wrong conclusion. It will take some days to really have a proper analysis and try to understand: is it a matter of balance, is it a matter of downforce, is it maybe even car concept? I don't know. I think we do not have the answer and I would like not to go through it."

    Earlier this year, when Mercedes appeared to be having difficulties in testing, the team said it would months to switch to another concept with his car.

    That timescale would dent Ferrari's hopes of a quick fightback, but Binotto believes that action can be taken this year.

    Asked if it would be a disaster if the team finds it got its concept wrong, he said: "I don't think it is a disaster by the time that you are improving as a team. And as I often say, we are a young team, we are learning on a learning phase.

    "I think that in terms of process and methodology there is still much to learn and I am pretty happy by the time the team is improving. If it is a concept design then it obviously depends what it is, but I think there are things that you may address within a season."

    Mercedes team boss Toto Wolff thinks that an explanation for the turnaround in form from testing to now may be explained by how the higher downforce concept allows room for more development without upsetting the car balance.

    "I think it's definitely an interesting thought, because when you see who was in the front in winter testing it's very different to the ones that are in the front today - even if you look at the fights in the midfield," he explained.

    "It was two different aerodynamic concepts and maybe there is a certain truth in it. But then there is never one question and one answer in Formula 1, or a silver bullet that justifies good or bad performance. I think it is about developing the car, keeping the development slope high."
    CAVALLINO RAMPANTE PER SEMPRE

  27. #507
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob View Post
    I see Ferrari getting a good slagging off by nearly everyone - but they took a risk and it didn't pay off. They're the only team to have taken the fight to Mercedes in the hybrid era so it's unfair to belittle their efforts so much.
    It`s just so disappointment when we had a car 2017 and 2018 and could fight WCC and made a good progress and then comes Binotto`s team and all is lost, no hope, Mercs 5 x 1-2 so far.

  28. #508
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    And the next race in Monaco doesn't look good for us either.
    Maybe we will see a repeat of the last result in Spain: Mercs 1&2, RB 3rd.

  29. #509
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob View Post
    I see Ferrari getting a good slagging off by nearly everyone - but they took a risk and it didn't pay off. They're the only team to have taken the fight to Mercedes in the hybrid era so it's unfair to belittle their efforts so much.
    2017 & 2018 concepts were good. you can build on that.
    Last year, development path was lacking. All the upgrades were downgrades. Instead Ferrari went totally different Low DF design philosophy with RB kind of rake.
    In 2018, Ferrari changed it's car design & it worked. Come 2019 car, you've changed again. F1 is about risk I know, but not to the extent of whether it works or not.
    Anyways i'm not bashing, it's just disappointment. After all we are Ferrari fans.
    "I've always believed that you should never, ever give up and you should always keep fighting even when there's only a slightest chance " : - Michael Schumacher

  30. #510
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    Anybody know bring we new suspension or not?

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