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Thread: Ferrari SF90

  1. #601
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    So If i've read this correctly, Ferrari have agreed to a further more budget on this SF90. ?

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    If they don’t spend now...

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  3. #603
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super M View Post
    So If i've read this correctly, Ferrari have agreed to a further more budget on this SF90. ?

    http://scuderiafans.com/ferrari-appr...UUCnmHVtKQExP8
    [it.motorsport] There was a Ferrari meeting last Friday after the testing in Barcelona: Elkann and Camilleri have deepen their trust in Mattia Binotto. An extra budget for the SF90 regarding aero developments has been granted!

    kinda the same thing.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  4. #604
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    Ferrari have a fortune behind them so I guess they can afford the luxury of the budget. I think they have the car concept wrong and have missed the brief with the SF90 tense the budget if only the chasis was as good as the engine then our forums would be speaking a whole different language and dialog good luck Ferrari.

  5. #605
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    [it.motorsport] There was a Ferrari meeting last Friday after the testing in Barcelona: Elkann and Camilleri have deepen their trust in Mattia Binotto. An extra budget for the SF90 regarding aero developments has been granted!

    kinda the same thing.

    Thanks Champ
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  6. #606
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super M View Post
    Thanks Champ
    Lots of rumors from Italy concerning Resta comeback after the sauber intermede.
    And maybe contact with Aldo costa for a part time job .

    Remembering Costa's speciality is suspension engineering..

  7. #607
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    Ferrari need all the expertise that they can muster.I would not be surprised if the big brass at Ferrari said to Binnotto how much to fix your lemon and he BINOTTO gave them a figure which they have agreed to do.For Binnotto sake he better get it right so an exceptible all round Ferrari arrives at the grid soon failing this he will have some serious questions to answer.So I would say an SOS has been sent to relative personal to ensure that the money is going to be spent properly and that results happen.Lets be serious here the hundreds of million spent on the SF90 to date has not returned the yield expected.

  8. #608
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    Quote Originally Posted by paolo lalli View Post
    Ferrari need all the expertise that they can muster.I would not be surprised if the big brass at Ferrari said to Binnotto how much to fix your lemon and he BINOTTO gave them a figure which they have agreed to do.For Binnotto sake he better get it right so an exceptible all round Ferrari arrives at the grid soon failing this he will have some serious questions to answer.So I would say an SOS has been sent to relative personal to ensure that the money is going to be spent properly and that results happen.Lets be serious here the hundreds of million spent on the SF90 to date has not returned the yield expected.
    If they now have taken the decision to throw more resources at the SF90 then both Elkann and Camilleri should also tell Binotto to stay in Maranello full time and not attend races. OK, it will be easier to go back and forth in Europe than from the other side of the globe but it's still an unsustainable set up in the long run. He can't oversee everything right now. And having "deputies" that you talk to on the phone or through e-mails is not the same thing as being there yourself 24/7. Just promote someone on the pitwall to Binotto's current on-track position and let him return to Maranello in the same position as last year. It can't get any worse. It will surely get better.

  9. #609
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    Lets hope so Binnotto is a lab rat type of guy.

  10. #610
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    This is messed up. They had a good car, a great car last season. They cannot improve upon that???? EVen HAAS, haas has improved from last year, even Sauber improved. What is this. They thought the whole season will be just a long straights with no turns??? They forgot the turn part? If Binotto or I hope I spelled his name right, still things that it is downforce thats making Mercedes so fast, then he needs to get his head on right. Red Bulls, the downforce kings are being beaten by Mercedes by close to 6 tents in the last sector. Red Bulls geatting beaten, and he things downforce can claw that back?? It is not downforce, it is brake steer. He has to see it. Why are they not trying it, why is it not obvious to them when looking at the videos. Mercedes can brake later, because they dont need to slow down to turn, they can get the car to a certain speed and begin the turn while at the same time, still being on the brakes to slow down the car to the apex. They carry huge speed into and out of the apex, it is not downforce. At that speeds, you do not create much downforce. Its all Mechanical. We have good downforce, we have excellent downforce on high speed corners, thats where it shows, the twsity stuff shows its MECHANICAL grip!! Come on guys, its not that hard. Add that brake by wire rear steering, you need it, without it you will not catch matercedes this year or next.

  11. #611
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    I hope everyone realizes that this is not aero thing. If Ferrari still thinks its Aero, all of them should be fired. Just ridiculous. This track is all about mechanical grip and suspension and tires. RedBull has been good here because of short wheelbase. Also, what about Ferrari, when they dominated in 2017, was it because of aero? Was it because mechanical grip and because the car HAD A SHORT WHEELBASE?? Redbull was still good in aero, but we beat them because we had better mechanical grip and short wheelbase!!! Why is it so hard for these Ferrari guys to get their head out of their rear ends and just look at some data and look at some videos online. How obvious does it have to be? Does it have to hit them in the face?? For me, this year, they are overconfident and incompetent. It cannot be this bad at this level. They have to know, Mercedes was working on this for a long long time, they kept making the car longer and longer every year, and every year, they kept getting better and better in shorter tracks. But our idiots, they kept making the car longer and longer but lost all the edge they had with a short wheelbase car. So, why cant they open their eyes.

  12. #612
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    Because mercedes has glued them shut.

  13. #613
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    Quote Originally Posted by mardyrt View Post
    This is messed up. They had a good car, a great car last season. They cannot improve upon that???? EVen HAAS, haas has improved from last year, even Sauber improved. What is this. They thought the whole season will be just a long straights with no turns??? They forgot the turn part? If Binotto or I hope I spelled his name right, still things that it is downforce thats making Mercedes so fast, then he needs to get his head on right. Red Bulls, the downforce kings are being beaten by Mercedes by close to 6 tents in the last sector. Red Bulls geatting beaten, and he things downforce can claw that back?? It is not downforce, it is brake steer. He has to see it. Why are they not trying it, why is it not obvious to them when looking at the videos. Mercedes can brake later, because they dont need to slow down to turn, they can get the car to a certain speed and begin the turn while at the same time, still being on the brakes to slow down the car to the apex. They carry huge speed into and out of the apex, it is not downforce. At that speeds, you do not create much downforce. Its all Mechanical. We have good downforce, we have excellent downforce on high speed corners, thats where it shows, the twsity stuff shows its MECHANICAL grip!! Come on guys, its not that hard. Add that brake by wire rear steering, you need it, without it you will not catch matercedes this year or next.
    Quote Originally Posted by mardyrt View Post
    I hope everyone realizes that this is not aero thing. If Ferrari still thinks its Aero, all of them should be fired. Just ridiculous. This track is all about mechanical grip and suspension and tires. RedBull has been good here because of short wheelbase. Also, what about Ferrari, when they dominated in 2017, was it because of aero? Was it because mechanical grip and because the car HAD A SHORT WHEELBASE?? Redbull was still good in aero, but we beat them because we had better mechanical grip and short wheelbase!!! Why is it so hard for these Ferrari guys to get their head out of their rear ends and just look at some data and look at some videos online. How obvious does it have to be? Does it have to hit them in the face?? For me, this year, they are overconfident and incompetent. It cannot be this bad at this level. They have to know, Mercedes was working on this for a long long time, they kept making the car longer and longer every year, and every year, they kept getting better and better in shorter tracks. But our idiots, they kept making the car longer and longer but lost all the edge they had with a short wheelbase car. So, why cant they open their eyes.

    Binotto: "Wing and front suspension do not touch, we work on aerodynamics"


    The Ferrari team principal expects important changes for France, but does not exclude the possibility that results will arrive even earlier. The SF90 fails to send the tires at temperature: "They were deliberated after the project was already in a very advanced stage".

    Mattia Binotto has made the technical point, and not only, on the moment of Ferrari, ranging from the analysis of the current situation to the Scuderia's medium and long-term objectives. A very clear picture emerged, in which the main evil affecting the SF90 project stands out: the lack of feeling with the Pirelli 2019 tires.

    Binotto has also clarified the future, confirming that the 2020 project has already started, and that it will benefit from the indications that will come from the development of the current car. The question about the possible return of Simone Resta to Maranello could not be missing, and here Binotto skilfully dribbled, giving the impression of a 'yes' but in a long period difficult to quantify.

    What problems are affecting the SF90?
    “After the Barcelona stage, we analyzed the data collected during the race weekends, trying to identify the strengths of our car and our performance compared to our rivals. In Spain it has emerged clearly that under certain conditions, and in particular in slow corners, for various reasons we are not as competitive as the Mercedes ".

    "The reason for all this is something we have to investigate and work with. Let's try to give explanations also connected to the development of our project. This year's tires are different from those of 2018, no controversy, it's simply a matter of done".

    "The main difference compared to last season is that in 2018 we were able to get the tires up to temperature very well, and we had to concentrate mainly on keeping them controlled so that, at lower temperatures, there were no grip problems. This year's tires are very different: it is much more complex to bring them up to temperature and reach the operating window, it is a process in which they must be heated a lot ".

    "And to achieve this we must concentrate on many aspects, working on the braking temperatures, on the cooling of the rims, but especially on the aerodynamic load. It is not only the downforce itself that is important, but also how the load is balanced in function of curves with high and low load. You also need to understand which is the target that you give yourself for what concerns the aerodynamic efficiency compared to the maximum attainable downforce ".

    "Our aerodynamic efficiency is good, you see it on the straights, but that doesn't mean the downforce is too. In the end it's about the interaction between aerodynamics, suspension and the complete package. Our car is efficient but lacking in some aspects, downforce peaks. We are trying to improve our car step by step ".

    On several occasions you have called Ferrari a young team. What do you mean?
    "I talked about a young team and I probably have to apologize because I'm not so young myself ... and we probably don't look very young. By young team I mean that many of us have recently changed roles, I first became Team Principal just a few months ago. Other technicians have also changed jobs recently. In this sense we are a young team ".

    "These changes undoubtedly bring advantages, because they allow the birth of new ideas and more creativity and dynamism in development, but at the same time our organization must settle and grow, acquiring experience and skills".

    Is the dual role of technical director and team principal weighing a little?
    "My double role? I only have the role of Team Principal of Scuderia Ferrari, my role is to manage the whole team. Also in the past, as Technical Director, I held a managerial role, let's say not the classic DT that can be found in Formula 1 ".

    "At Ferrari, the DT is responsible for both the chassis and the engine parts, and I managed both of these aspects. It means that you can't be a specialist in the engine, the chassis, the DRS, the batteries, the aerodynamics: the DT in Ferrari It is seen as a managerial role. Since I have been a Team Principal we have reorganized ourselves internally because we needed support on the technical front.There are people who help me manage the whole team, in Maranello they support me in the management from the point of "Technically, their names are not mentioned because the team counts more than individuals. For example, last year Laurent Mekies was in Maranello while this year he is on the competition fields."

    Yesterday Sebastian talked about tire management problems. Do you think it's a Ferrari problem only?
    "We need to improve tire management, which we know well to be the same for everyone. The reason why we are not so high performing so far is technical. It is up to the individual teams to develop a machine that is capable of maximizing the package. "

    Are you still convinced that the technical choice of the front wing is the right one?
    "First our problem is not the peak of downforce and I don't think we should change our front wing. We have adopted a different car concept from Mercedes and we need to get the most out of our project. At the moment we are not interested in changing the front wing, at the beginning of the project we had thought of a Mercedes-style solution, and we are still convinced that there is no need to change ”.

    And on the front suspension?
    "We have the solution we want. This does not mean that we must always look at new ways to improve the car and we can always think of intervening on suspensions, aerodynamics or cooling systems. But I do not believe that there is something wrong with suspensions as a principle. The problem with the tires is that we can't get them to work in the best way, it's an interaction between aerodynamics and mechanics, a compromise. We need to find the right balance to always reach the maximum potential ".

    Charles today seemed to have problems putting the front tires up to temperature ...
    "Yes, we had difficulties warming up the tires, a problem diametrically opposed to the situation in 2018. It is a problem, but any attempt to qualify is in some way unique and depends on how it is prepared. We will look at the data to optimize everything and be ready for Saturday's qualifications ".

    Do you confirm that you have already started with the 2020 machine project?
    "Yes, we are working on it. Already in summer the project for the following season must in principle be completed. It's not something we start working on in the fall, but we are working in parallel on the two projects, we need to improve the SF90 to transfer the improvements on next year's project ".

    Can the runs in Canada and Austria be considered 'friends'?
    "Without a doubt we lack something in terms of performance against Mercedes, but the games here in Monco are still open. We will see what happens on Saturday and Sunday. In some ways, Munich and Baku can be compared, and we went well there. "

    "In FP1 and FP2 Mercedes went very well, but we have time to improve. Tomorrow we have a full day to work and then let's see what the qualifications will say. Upcoming races? France is very similar to Spain, I don't see it as a track in which we could be favorites, but it can be an opportunity to see if we have improved ".

    "You can't change a project like this in a few weeks but we can try to optimize our package. In the first 5 races there were tracks in which we were competitive, so I think there may be other tracks where our package can prove itself again competitive. We will fight day after day, race by race. "

    Have you changed your seasonal goals after the results of the first five races?
    "Surely after the winter tests we had higher expectations than today. The ranking does not smile on us, there are many points to be recovered and there are margins to improve the machine. We always try race after race to improve the machine and develop the technical concepts. We will draw the sums at the end ".

    The tires were different from what you expected ...
    "Pirelli made us try these tires in the Abu Dhabi tests last year, in November, and the ones we tested were very similar to the final product we are running now. But when we tested them in November our SF90 project was already very advanced ”.

    In the last few days the voice of a return of Maranello by Simone Resta has emerged insistently.
    "Yes, I heard, as a team we always try to improve, especially where we think we can make progress. Simone has been at Ferrari, today he is the technical director of Alfa Romeo and he is living a great experience. We are evaluating the possibility of a return, but no decisions have been taken on the matter ".

    "At the moment in the working group that operates in Maranello its role is already covered, so it is an evolving situation. But in general we always evaluate possible grafts, a team is very dynamic and it is normal that this is the case, there are always people that arrive and others that leave ”.

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  14. #614
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    Quote Originally Posted by mardyrt View Post
    This is messed up. They had a good car, a great car last season. They cannot improve upon that???? EVen HAAS, haas has improved from last year, even Sauber improved. What is this. They thought the whole season will be just a long straights with no turns??? They forgot the turn part? If Binotto or I hope I spelled his name right, still things that it is downforce thats making Mercedes so fast, then he needs to get his head on right. Red Bulls, the downforce kings are being beaten by Mercedes by close to 6 tents in the last sector. Red Bulls geatting beaten, and he things downforce can claw that back?? It is not downforce, it is brake steer. He has to see it. Why are they not trying it, why is it not obvious to them when looking at the videos. Mercedes can brake later, because they dont need to slow down to turn, they can get the car to a certain speed and begin the turn while at the same time, still being on the brakes to slow down the car to the apex. They carry huge speed into and out of the apex, it is not downforce. At that speeds, you do not create much downforce. Its all Mechanical. We have good downforce, we have excellent downforce on high speed corners, thats where it shows, the twsity stuff shows its MECHANICAL grip!! Come on guys, its not that hard. Add that brake by wire rear steering, you need it, without it you will not catch matercedes this year or next.
    Quote Originally Posted by mardyrt View Post
    I hope everyone realizes that this is not aero thing. If Ferrari still thinks its Aero, all of them should be fired. Just ridiculous. This track is all about mechanical grip and suspension and tires. RedBull has been good here because of short wheelbase. Also, what about Ferrari, when they dominated in 2017, was it because of aero? Was it because mechanical grip and because the car HAD A SHORT WHEELBASE?? Redbull was still good in aero, but we beat them because we had better mechanical grip and short wheelbase!!! Why is it so hard for these Ferrari guys to get their head out of their rear ends and just look at some data and look at some videos online. How obvious does it have to be? Does it have to hit them in the face?? For me, this year, they are overconfident and incompetent. It cannot be this bad at this level. They have to know, Mercedes was working on this for a long long time, they kept making the car longer and longer every year, and every year, they kept getting better and better in shorter tracks. But our idiots, they kept making the car longer and longer but lost all the edge they had with a short wheelbase car. So, why cant they open their eyes.

    Binotto: "Wing and front suspension do not touch, we work on aerodynamics"


    The Ferrari team principal expects important changes for France, but does not exclude the possibility that results will arrive even earlier. The SF90 fails to send the tires at temperature: "They were deliberated after the project was already in a very advanced stage".

    Mattia Binotto has made the technical point, and not only, on the moment of Ferrari, ranging from the analysis of the current situation to the Scuderia's medium and long-term objectives. A very clear picture emerged, in which the main evil affecting the SF90 project stands out: the lack of feeling with the Pirelli 2019 tires.

    Binotto has also clarified the future, confirming that the 2020 project has already started, and that it will benefit from the indications that will come from the development of the current car. The question about the possible return of Simone Resta to Maranello could not be missing, and here Binotto skilfully dribbled, giving the impression of a 'yes' but in a long period difficult to quantify.

    What problems are affecting the SF90?
    “After the Barcelona stage, we analyzed the data collected during the race weekends, trying to identify the strengths of our car and our performance compared to our rivals. In Spain it has emerged clearly that under certain conditions, and in particular in slow corners, for various reasons we are not as competitive as the Mercedes ".

    "The reason for all this is something we have to investigate and work with. Let's try to give explanations also connected to the development of our project. This year's tires are different from those of 2018, no controversy, it's simply a matter of done".

    "The main difference compared to last season is that in 2018 we were able to get the tires up to temperature very well, and we had to concentrate mainly on keeping them controlled so that, at lower temperatures, there were no grip problems. This year's tires are very different: it is much more complex to bring them up to temperature and reach the operating window, it is a process in which they must be heated a lot ".

    "And to achieve this we must concentrate on many aspects, working on the braking temperatures, on the cooling of the rims, but especially on the aerodynamic load. It is not only the downforce itself that is important, but also how the load is balanced in function of curves with high and low load. You also need to understand which is the target that you give yourself for what concerns the aerodynamic efficiency compared to the maximum attainable downforce ".

    "Our aerodynamic efficiency is good, you see it on the straights, but that doesn't mean the downforce is too. In the end it's about the interaction between aerodynamics, suspension and the complete package. Our car is efficient but lacking in some aspects, downforce peaks. We are trying to improve our car step by step ".

    On several occasions you have called Ferrari a young team. What do you mean?
    "I talked about a young team and I probably have to apologize because I'm not so young myself ... and we probably don't look very young. By young team I mean that many of us have recently changed roles, I first became Team Principal just a few months ago. Other technicians have also changed jobs recently. In this sense we are a young team ".

    "These changes undoubtedly bring advantages, because they allow the birth of new ideas and more creativity and dynamism in development, but at the same time our organization must settle and grow, acquiring experience and skills".

    Is the dual role of technical director and team principal weighing a little?
    "My double role? I only have the role of Team Principal of Scuderia Ferrari, my role is to manage the whole team. Also in the past, as Technical Director, I held a managerial role, let's say not the classic DT that can be found in Formula 1 ".

    "At Ferrari, the DT is responsible for both the chassis and the engine parts, and I managed both of these aspects. It means that you can't be a specialist in the engine, the chassis, the DRS, the batteries, the aerodynamics: the DT in Ferrari It is seen as a managerial role. Since I have been a Team Principal we have reorganized ourselves internally because we needed support on the technical front.There are people who help me manage the whole team, in Maranello they support me in the management from the point of "Technically, their names are not mentioned because the team counts more than individuals. For example, last year Laurent Mekies was in Maranello while this year he is on the competition fields."

    Yesterday Sebastian talked about tire management problems. Do you think it's a Ferrari problem only?
    "We need to improve tire management, which we know well to be the same for everyone. The reason why we are not so high performing so far is technical. It is up to the individual teams to develop a machine that is capable of maximizing the package. "

    Are you still convinced that the technical choice of the front wing is the right one?
    "First our problem is not the peak of downforce and I don't think we should change our front wing. We have adopted a different car concept from Mercedes and we need to get the most out of our project. At the moment we are not interested in changing the front wing, at the beginning of the project we had thought of a Mercedes-style solution, and we are still convinced that there is no need to change ”.

    And on the front suspension?
    "We have the solution we want. This does not mean that we must always look at new ways to improve the car and we can always think of intervening on suspensions, aerodynamics or cooling systems. But I do not believe that there is something wrong with suspensions as a principle. The problem with the tires is that we can't get them to work in the best way, it's an interaction between aerodynamics and mechanics, a compromise. We need to find the right balance to always reach the maximum potential ".

    Charles today seemed to have problems putting the front tires up to temperature ...
    "Yes, we had difficulties warming up the tires, a problem diametrically opposed to the situation in 2018. It is a problem, but any attempt to qualify is in some way unique and depends on how it is prepared. We will look at the data to optimize everything and be ready for Saturday's qualifications ".

    Do you confirm that you have already started with the 2020 machine project?
    "Yes, we are working on it. Already in summer the project for the following season must in principle be completed. It's not something we start working on in the fall, but we are working in parallel on the two projects, we need to improve the SF90 to transfer the improvements on next year's project ".

    Can the runs in Canada and Austria be considered 'friends'?
    "Without a doubt we lack something in terms of performance against Mercedes, but the games here in Monco are still open. We will see what happens on Saturday and Sunday. In some ways, Munich and Baku can be compared, and we went well there. "

    "In FP1 and FP2 Mercedes went very well, but we have time to improve. Tomorrow we have a full day to work and then let's see what the qualifications will say. Upcoming races? France is very similar to Spain, I don't see it as a track in which we could be favorites, but it can be an opportunity to see if we have improved ".

    "You can't change a project like this in a few weeks but we can try to optimize our package. In the first 5 races there were tracks in which we were competitive, so I think there may be other tracks where our package can prove itself again competitive. We will fight day after day, race by race. "

    Have you changed your seasonal goals after the results of the first five races?
    "Surely after the winter tests we had higher expectations than today. The ranking does not smile on us, there are many points to be recovered and there are margins to improve the machine. We always try race after race to improve the machine and develop the technical concepts. We will draw the sums at the end ".

    The tires were different from what you expected ...
    "Pirelli made us try these tires in the Abu Dhabi tests last year, in November, and the ones we tested were very similar to the final product we are running now. But when we tested them in November our SF90 project was already very advanced ”.

    In the last few days the voice of a return of Maranello by Simone Resta has emerged insistently.
    "Yes, I heard, as a team we always try to improve, especially where we think we can make progress. Simone has been at Ferrari, today he is the technical director of Alfa Romeo and he is living a great experience. We are evaluating the possibility of a return, but no decisions have been taken on the matter ".

    "At the moment in the working group that operates in Maranello its role is already covered, so it is an evolving situation. But in general we always evaluate possible grafts, a team is very dynamic and it is normal that this is the case, there are always people that arrive and others that leave ”.

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  15. #615
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    Really, now they are talking about that the tires dont work or they cant get them to work on the car??? Seriously?? You had a whole year, you knew these will be the next seasons tires last year. Last season, we did badly on those tracks that used these types of thinner thread tires, Barcelona, France, and a few others. So what happened to that? They are still investigating why Mercedes are faster in slow corners even after winter testing?? Even last year toward the end Ferrari got their butts handed to them on a silver plate. Why are they so slow to react. Its unbeleveable. I saw last year, in testing this action in the chicane, I saw how the car was turned in its own axis, I talked about this. Surely, a person with an engineering degree, 1000s of km away, who is watching on video, analyzing video can see that, why cant a seasoned F1 engineer, cannot notice?? Are they not keeping an eye on the opposition?? Do they have their head in the sand?? This is just ridiculous!!

  16. #616
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    Unacceptable. No tactics. No immagination. No thinking out of the box. Even if Mercedes didnt do it, we should have done it with rear steer and suspension design. Its like having the long wheelbase car performance on fast corners and short wheelbase car performance in tight slow speed turns. They should have known that this is the next step mercedes will take when they went long wheelbase, they knew the drawbacks, and still they stayed with it, which means they found a way to negate this drawback. Ferrari just copied their long wheelbase and called it a day. Half work. That gets you nowhere.

  17. #617
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    can we stop talking about rear steering already. It's not what's making the Mercs quicker. You cannot apply different brake pressures to individual wheels. It's suspension geometry and getting tires to heat up properly that's making them quick. Mercs have given up staightline speed to be fast in the corners much like Red Bull did in the EBD days. We need to get our tires in the right heat range and we can start winning some races. And yes aero can make the difference if we can load the tires up enough to get them in the right heat range for the slower corners.

  18. #618
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Bob View Post
    can we stop talking about rear steering already. It's not what's making the Mercs quicker. You cannot apply different brake pressures to individual wheels. It's suspension geometry and getting tires to heat up properly that's making them quick. Mercs have given up staightline speed to be fast in the corners much like Red Bull did in the EBD days. We need to get our tires in the right heat range and we can start winning some races. And yes aero can make the difference if we can load the tires up enough to get them in the right heat range for the slower corners.
    You can apply. You dont need a different system to change the pressure. There are lots of tricks you can do. Yes, they are using rear brakes because only with uspension you dont get the rotation. Even italian media was talking about it. Also, last year some journalists analyzed, in US gp last corner. This is the type of thinking why Ferrari is in the place its in.

  19. #619
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    Quote Originally Posted by mardyrt View Post
    I hope everyone realizes that this is not aero thing. If Ferrari still thinks its Aero, all of them should be fired. Just ridiculous. This track is all about mechanical grip and suspension and tires. RedBull has been good here because of short wheelbase. Also, what about Ferrari, when they dominated in 2017, was it because of aero? Was it because mechanical grip and because the car HAD A SHORT WHEELBASE?? Redbull was still good in aero, but we beat them because we had better mechanical grip and short wheelbase!!! Why is it so hard for these Ferrari guys to get their head out of their rear ends and just look at some data and look at some videos online. How obvious does it have to be? Does it have to hit them in the face?? For me, this year, they are overconfident and incompetent. It cannot be this bad at this level. They have to know, Mercedes was working on this for a long long time, they kept making the car longer and longer every year, and every year, they kept getting better and better in shorter tracks. But our idiots, they kept making the car longer and longer but lost all the edge they had with a short wheelbase car. So, why cant they open their eyes.
    +1 and i dont know if is posible Merc have passive rear steering and if that is illegal.

  20. #620
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Bob View Post
    can we stop talking about rear steering already. It's not what's making the Mercs quicker. You cannot apply different brake pressures to individual wheels. It's suspension geometry and getting tires to heat up properly that's making them quick. Mercs have given up staightline speed to be fast in the corners much like Red Bull did in the EBD days. We need to get our tires in the right heat range and we can start winning some races. And yes aero can make the difference if we can load the tires up enough to get them in the right heat range for the slower corners.
    They have not given up straightline speed, they are still as good as us, and we have a better engine. Also, our car is efficient aerodynamically, and we were also fast last year and mercedes was slower than us.

  21. #621
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    Well at least Binotto has identified the problem - lack of downforce. That's what I heard at the time of car launch that with Merc's front wing concept, they will have tremendous potential for downforce via bargeboard area whereas Ferrari will lack relatively.

  22. #622
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    If its downforce, we will be loosing everywhere, high speed corners and low speed and on braking. But we are not. We loosing only in slow speed corners. We have very good traction, but mercedes go through the corners faster, their apex speed is about 10kph higher than us, which gives them a huge advantage when accelerating, so it looks like they have good traction, but our traction is better than them, but they are starting the accelerating process at a higher speed than us. Red Bull would have downforce, but even they are killing redbull in slow corners and they have a similar front wing to Mercedes. It has something to do with the tires too, but most of all, it is the rear steer and the front moveable (illegal) suspension they have. Also, it is only the mercedes car that is hopping in the slow corners, this is the effect of rear steer, because the car is turning more than the steering angle.

  23. #623
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    Quote Originally Posted by mardyrt View Post
    If its downforce, we will be loosing everywhere, high speed corners and low speed and on braking. But we are not. We loosing only in slow speed corners. We have very good traction, but mercedes go through the corners faster, their apex speed is about 10kph higher than us, which gives them a huge advantage when accelerating, so it looks like they have good traction, but our traction is better than them, but they are starting the accelerating process at a higher speed than us. Red Bull would have downforce, but even they are killing redbull in slow corners and they have a similar front wing to Mercedes. It has something to do with the tires too, but most of all, it is the rear steer and the front moveable (illegal) suspension they have. Also, it is only the mercedes car that is hopping in the slow corners, this is the effect of rear steer, because the car is turning more than the steering angle.
    Hero's come and go, but legends never die!

  24. #624
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    Quote Originally Posted by mardyrt View Post
    If its downforce, we will be loosing everywhere, high speed corners and low speed and on braking. But we are not. We loosing only in slow speed corners. We have very good traction, but mercedes go through the corners faster, their apex speed is about 10kph higher than us, which gives them a huge advantage when accelerating, so it looks like they have good traction, but our traction is better than them, but they are starting the accelerating process at a higher speed than us. Red Bull would have downforce, but even they are killing redbull in slow corners and they have a similar front wing to Mercedes. It has something to do with the tires too, but most of all, it is the rear steer and the front moveable (illegal) suspension they have. Also, it is only the mercedes car that is hopping in the slow corners, this is the effect of rear steer, because the car is turning more than the steering angle.

  25. #625
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    Quote Originally Posted by mardyrt View Post
    If its downforce, we will be loosing everywhere, high speed corners and low speed and on braking. But we are not. We loosing only in slow speed corners. We have very good traction, but mercedes go through the corners faster, their apex speed is about 10kph higher than us, which gives them a huge advantage when accelerating, so it looks like they have good traction, but our traction is better than them, but they are starting the accelerating process at a higher speed than us. Red Bull would have downforce, but even they are killing redbull in slow corners and they have a similar front wing to Mercedes. It has something to do with the tires too, but most of all, it is the rear steer and the front moveable (illegal) suspension they have. Also, it is only the mercedes car that is hopping in the slow corners, this is the effect of rear steer, because the car is turning more than the steering angle.
    But that's what Binotto says that they need more downforce and a good balance between front and rear. In the end, whatever it may be, hopefully they have identified everything and started work.

    That rear steer, Mark Hughes says every team on the grid runs it so it isn't Mercedes specific. Ferrari trialed it first in 2017, Red Bull mastered it last year.

  26. #626
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Bob View Post
    can we stop talking about rear steering already. It's not what's making the Mercs quicker. You cannot apply different brake pressures to individual wheels. It's suspension geometry and getting tires to heat up properly that's making them quick. Mercs have given up staightline speed to be fast in the corners much like Red Bull did in the EBD days. We need to get our tires in the right heat range and we can start winning some races. And yes aero can make the difference if we can load the tires up enough to get them in the right heat range for the slower corners.
    If you think this is about tires, then, in your view, the tires only come on for the Mercedes in the last sector in Barcelona and few corners in Austrailia all through the track, some corners tiers work, others tires do not work, you think tires work like that? Also, if it is the tiers, you think in the last sector alone, we will loose .8 seconds? Also, if its tires alone, then we will be loosing in the faster sections, but then why are we on similar pace to Mercedes? It is not the tires. If we are keeping with mercedes in fast corners with bad tires, then we have the best downforce, and still we are loosing in the slow corners, how is that possible. YOu have to look at the data, all around, not just one track, not just in one senario, you have to look at all of it, look at the apex speeds, acceleration in the corners, how the steering input is, the braking. We actually gain in some of braking phases, but as soon as we turn the steering, we start loosing, because, at the point of turning, we have slowed down more than mercedes and we are loosing all the way to the apex and all the way to the acceleration phase.

  27. #627
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    Quote Originally Posted by chinmay View Post
    But that's what Binotto says that they need more downforce and a good balance between front and rear. In the end, whatever it may be, hopefully they have identified everything and started work.

    That rear steer, Mark Hughes says every team on the grid runs it so it isn't Mercedes specific. Ferrari trialed it first in 2017, Red Bull mastered it last year.
    Ferrari is not doing it, maybe very slightly, and nor Red Bull. They do not have the axis rotation like Mercedes. If Ferrari has a system, then, they are not using it properly.

  28. #628
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    Quote Originally Posted by mardyrt View Post
    Ferrari is not doing it, maybe very slightly, and nor Red Bull. They do not have the axis rotation like Mercedes. If Ferrari has a system, then, they are not using it properly.
    Slow corner pace used to be Mercedes weakness on many occasions. Credit goes to them for turning their biggest weakness into their greatest strength.

  29. #629
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    Problem found, new front wing and barge boards will be ready for Canada to address it !! potential gain between 4 and 8 tenth.

  30. #630
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jax View Post
    Problem found, new front wing and barge boards will be ready for Canada to address it !! potential gain between 4 and 8 tenth.
    Where did you dig up this info please?

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