Thread: Ferrari SF90

  1. #961
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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    I would say or rather assume that it’s correlation problem between actual on track data & CFD.
    Ferrari massively depended on in season testing where they can develop their car between the races. When it’s gone, ferrari were hit badly & also took a lot of time to adapt for wind tunnel etc.

    They can identify the weaknesses of the car but can’t solve it, which means it’s somewhere down to CFD & on track data.
    Ferrari's simulation tools are outdated. There was some news that in 2016 or 2017, Ferrari installed very expensive new machinery. Mercedes and Red Bull have state of the art systems, whatever works for them at factory works on track. Whatever works for Ferrari at factory never works on track. Correlation has always been a problem but they never rectify it or the current lot is unable to do so.

    When it comes to working quickly, Ferrari lacks. Mercedes bring 3 tenths worth upgrade every 3-4 race and every single one of them works. Ferrari brings new floor, new bargeboard, new rear wing and unfortunately, nothing works.

  2. #962
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    It's all about the money. R Bull has billions to spend. Merc and Honda are not that far behind. They sell a lot of cars . Then what little Ferrari has compared to them ; they give it to their driver. I'll never get over $50 million pay to Seb alone based on what he did in a R Bull car. Can Ferrari afford the idea of cloning the R Bull ? A no brainer, they just need to pay to go. The races for me are still great even though it's just waiting for either R Bull or Mrerc,s driver to make a mistake up front and have a Ferrari right there to take the lead. The podium is still a reward . I hope Charles has patience !

  3. #963
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    It's all about the money. R Bull has billions to spend. Merc and Honda are not that far behind. They sell a lot of cars . Then what little Ferrari has compared to them ; they give it to their driver. I'll never get over $50 million pay to Seb alone based on what he did in a R Bull car. Can Ferrari afford the idea of cloning the R Bull ? A no brainer, they just need to pay to go. The races for me are still great even though it's just waiting for either R Bull or Mrerc,s driver to make a mistake up front and have a Ferrari right there to take the lead. The podium is still a reward . I hope Charles has patience !
    So why RB donít make there own engines if they have billions as you claim? So acording to you Ferrari put all the money on the drivers and the drivers has to make all the difference. Hahaha. Ok. That is why willians has fall that far.
    The only think I know is that Ferrari is one of the best brands ever, but for some reason they can put all the pieces together, but it will come soon for sure.


    "Big things have small beginings"
    "Perseverence is power"

  4. #964
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    Ferrari don’t have any problems with money and compare with Red Bull and Mercedes, Ferrari for 2019 season spend the most money. Like in Schumacher time Toyota spend more money than Ferrari and mclaren but they didn’t win a championship. In turbo hybrid time is Ferrari and Mercedes on top than is Red Bull and......

  5. #965
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    Quote Originally Posted by 19000rpmF-2004 View Post
    So why RB don’t make there own engines if they have billions as you claim? So acording to you Ferrari put all the money on the drivers and the drivers has to make all the difference. Hahaha. Ok. That is why willians has fall that far.
    The only think I know is that Ferrari is one of the best brands ever, but for some reason they can put all the pieces together, but it will come soon for sure.
    The same reason Ferrari don't make soft drinks. Ferrari is one of the best brands as long as you drink it slowly. It looks like for some reason they can't not can put all the pieces together yet. They use the best brakes.

  6. #966
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    I can easily say that Ferrari have the best engine department, like Enzo Ferrari said a long time ago. Aerodynamic is for the peoples who can’t build a perfect engine and that is the main reason why is Ferrari behind Mercedes and now Red Bull.

  7. #967
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    The same reason Ferrari don't make soft drinks. Ferrari is one of the best brands as long as you drink it slowly. It looks like for some reason they can't not can put all the pieces together yet. They use the best brakes.
    Itís not the same. But... ok. Let put some RB drink on an ferrari engine and wins for down forever so we can fly and may be we can win championships.


    "Big things have small beginings"
    "Perseverence is power"

  8. #968
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    The problem is organization, pure and simple. When one needs to solve a problem (problem is delivering a championship), they need to focus on weaknesses and take them out).
    Seems to me that we have persistent weaknesses (eg. aero, correlation etc) which means that either we just ignore the issue or we're weak in resolving them.
    Either of which, it means we lack the resolve in the management department.

    Really, it is that simple. It is not a matter of resources (money) or people (you get those with money or build with existing people). It's simply a matter of how you operate, procedures etc.
    "If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve

  9. #969
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    I agree with you for sure. But I believe it's money that gets all the things you mention done right. F 1 operating costs are ridiculous !

  10. #970
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    I agree with you for sure. But I believe it's money that gets all the things you mention done right. F 1 operating costs are ridiculous !
    You can have all the money in the world, if you can't allocate it correctly, there is no point in spending it. So no. First you figure out what to do, then you start building.
    "If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve

  11. #971
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    Money does not buy love nor does it buy formula 1 success. Simple operational errors and some management errors are Ferraris only problem.Ferrari can not keep throwing good money towards outdated internal systems the salaries they pay are at the very top.All that is needed are the right people in there right positions and to build consistency and continuity with in the constant shuffling of staff reminds me of a very nervous card player.Ferrari have this trait this is there only problem not money.

  12. #972
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    If it's as you say; simple operational errors and some management errors are causing Ferrari" s demise where they are now even behind R Bull; not only Lewis and his Merc as far as the future looks car wise, well the name Ferrari is now just a nostalgia of former greatness. With a $50 million dollar 4x WDC, and a great young driver in Charles and nothing good can be said here among fans except wait for 2020, 2021 ! Just think about it, down force and tires are two of the main problems holding Ferrari back. Again I agree in part with you, Ferrari keeps throwing good money away esp. in drivers pay. Who knows how much the other management geniuses are getting paid? My point is that win or lose the check is in the mail to these Ferrari employees. On the other hand Charles' dreaming of a Seb salary hopefully will keep him aboard . His #2 car just ain't enough. And he is the only one I would want to see get rich there in the future, he's 100% for the win!! Forget Lewis; Max and Bottas should never be ahead of Seb on points.
    Last edited by Brembo; 23rd August 2019 at 23:02.

  13. #973
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    This is SF90 thread. Not driver’s salary discussion.
    Time again n again it’s the same hatred, same point discussion. It never ends from such kind of persons.

  14. #974
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    It's all about the money. R Bull has billions to spend. Merc and Honda are not that far behind. They sell a lot of cars . Then what little Ferrari has compared to them ; they give it to their driver. I'll never get over $50 million pay to Seb alone based on what he did in a R Bull car. Can Ferrari afford the idea of cloning the R Bull ? A no brainer, they just need to pay to go. The races for me are still great even though it's just waiting for either R Bull or Mrerc,s driver to make a mistake up front and have a Ferrari right there to take the lead. The podium is still a reward . I hope Charles has patience !
    Yes, people forget that Ferrari is actually a small organisation compared to Mercedes which has massive amounts of funds, research and development programs and personal across many factories around the world.

  15. #975
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    It's all about the money. R Bull has billions to spend. Merc and Honda are not that far behind. They sell a lot of cars . Then what little Ferrari has compared to them ; they give it to their driver. I'll never get over $50 million pay to Seb alone based on what he did in a R Bull car. Can Ferrari afford the idea of cloning the R Bull ? A no brainer, they just need to pay to go. The races for me are still great even though it's just waiting for either R Bull or Mrerc,s driver to make a mistake up front and have a Ferrari right there to take the lead. The podium is still a reward . I hope Charles has patience !


    Great post Brembo!

  16. #976
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    Fiat Chrysler dude a massive organisation owns Ferrari and others Alfa etc the deceased legend Mr marchione valued Ferrari alone at between 60 and 80 billion dollars and said possibly more it's a car manufacturing giant know thanks to him.Top 5 in the world soft drinks my ass. Have you seen the value of Ferrari shares they just keep going up they are diamonds not gold.Now if that's a money problem I beg to differ.

  17. #977
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    Quote Originally Posted by paolo lalli View Post
    Fiat Chrysler dude a massive organisation owns Ferrari and others Alfa etc the deceased legend Mr marchione valued Ferrari alone at between 60 and 80 billion dollars and said possibly more it's a car manufacturing giant know thanks to him.Top 5 in the world soft drinks my ass. Have you seen the value of Ferrari shares they just keep going up they are diamonds not gold.Now if that's a money problem I beg to differ.
    OK so now the big shots at Fiat Chrysler have to spend some more of that money with the F-1 Ferrari team , and pay attention to how it's spent. Not just mainly on salaries. It can't be that tires and down force is the main downfall of the team and keeping Ferrari out of the WCC, WDC, The only thing in the #1 spot @ Ferrari are the salaries. So ok they have the $$ "Fazzolls " now start with a front wing that's worthy of a Ferrari front end ! Fiat Chrysler should take note of Merc and send out all there retail cars wearing Pirelli rubber ! Maybe they will go easy on Ferrari like they do with Merc.
    Last edited by Brembo; 25th August 2019 at 08:07.

  18. #978
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    OK so now the big shots at Fiat Chrysler have to spend some more of that money with the F-1 Ferrari team , and pay attention to how it's spent. Not just mainly on salaries. It can't be that tires and down force is the main downfall of the team and keeping Ferrari out of the WCC, WDC, The only thing in the #1 spot @ Ferrari are the salaries. So ok they have the $$ "Fazzolls " now start with a front wing that's worthy of a Ferrari front end ! Fiat Chrysler should take note of Merc and send out all there retail cars wearing Pirelli rubber ! Maybe they will go easy on Ferrari like they do with Merc.
    Usually the drivers salaries are not included into teams budgets data

    Ferrari spent 410m $ in 2018 / Mercedes 405m $ and Redbull 310m $

  19. #979
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    OK so now the big shots at Fiat Chrysler have to spend some more of that money with the F-1 Ferrari team , and pay attention to how it's spent. Not just mainly on salaries. It can't be that tires and down force is the main downfall of the team and keeping Ferrari out of the WCC, WDC, The only thing in the #1 spot @ Ferrari are the salaries. So ok they have the $$ "Fazzolls " now start with a front wing that's worthy of a Ferrari front end ! Fiat Chrysler should take note of Merc and send out all there retail cars wearing Pirelli rubber ! Maybe they will go easy on Ferrari like they do with Merc.
    Before going off on one of your rants about money etc etc you may want check your facts. FIAT and Ferrari separated ways in 2016.
    CAVALLINO RAMPANTE PER SEMPRE

  20. #980
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    Divided but always united with love.

  21. #981
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob View Post
    Before going off on one of your rants about money etc etc you may want check your facts. FIAT and Ferrari separated ways in 2016.
    Before you go off on one of your rants about my boring etc. posts , it was Paolo lalli post# 976 that gave that wrong info. But as usual , thank you for your constant interest in my posts to make sure there ok and not too irritating and boring. That's what I get for replying to a tread that wasn't checked out by you! 50 million salary is tooo much to pay anyone except Lewis so far! But Charles is on the way !

  22. #982
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    OK so now the big shots at Fiat Chrysler have to spend some more of that money with the F-1 Ferrari team , and pay attention to how it's spent. Not just mainly on salaries. It can't be that tires and down force is the main downfall of the team and keeping Ferrari out of the WCC, WDC, The only thing in the #1 spot @ Ferrari are the salaries. So ok they have the $$ "Fazzolls " now start with a front wing that's worthy of a Ferrari front end ! Fiat Chrysler should take note of Merc and send out all there retail cars wearing Pirelli rubber ! Maybe they will go easy on Ferrari like they do with Merc.
    Actually, there are two ways to go about this.
    You can either go your way (pet about Pirelli) or lobby with FiA (the way Mercedes) and rid Pirelli of F1 in order to get another tyre provider in , one of their preference.
    FIAT Chrysler do have the muscle and the money to do this, question is, do they care to do this? (Again, management).

    Examining the facts will give you the answer.
    "If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve

  23. #983
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob View Post
    Before going off on one of your rants about money etc etc you may want check your facts. FIAT and Ferrari separated ways in 2016.
    Scuderia Ferrari is still owned by FIAT Chrysler AFAIK.

    https://www.allbrands.markets/brand/...-nl0010877643/
    "If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve

  24. #984
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    Quote Originally Posted by aroutis View Post
    Scuderia Ferrari is still owned by FIAT Chrysler AFAIK.

    https://www.allbrands.markets/brand/...-nl0010877643/
    Ferrari was sold by FCA in 2016. The Agnelli family is still in control

  25. #985
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    According to Wikipedia:

    Fiat S.p.A. acquired 50% of Ferrari in 1969 and expanded its stake to 90% in 1988.[6] In October 2014 Fiat Chrysler Automobiles N.V. (FCA) announced its intentions to separate Ferrari S.p.A. from FCA; as of the announcement FCA owned 90% of Ferrari.[7][8][9] The separation began in October 2015 with a restructuring that established Ferrari N.V. (a company incorporated in the Netherlands) as the new holding company of the Ferrari group and the subsequent sale by FCA of 10% of the shares in an IPO and concurrent listing of common shares on the New York Stock Exchange.[10] Through the remaining steps of the separation, FCA's interest in Ferrari's business was distributed to shareholders of FCA, with 10% continuing to be owned by Piero Ferrari.[11] The spin-off was completed on 3 January 2016.[10]

  26. #986
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    Thank you JPZ for that. So we have it Ferrari are separate from FIAT.
    Personally I am not that bothered although I am sure we would benefit from being a small fish in the FIAT group. Clearly Marchionne didn't have that opinion and he knew best.
    What I don't like is that Merc can always find a loop hole when they want to work during the shutdown.

    Wolff: During the break part of the team was pushing flat out.

    http://gptoday.com/full_story/view/691704/

    Apparently teams can work on power units according to Toto but other areas are off limits. I wonder what we have been able to get away with


    Forza Jules

  27. #987
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    Merc pushing flat out is surely their wanting to stay where they are, on top. Ferrari on the other hand took the break literally , rest and relaxation! So many fans here share that same sentiment. 2020 , 2021. It also looks like R Bull is not asleep either. Their willing to take the penalties and go with yet another new engine. Max fighting Lewis is great for each race and the hopes of Charles driving around them !

  28. #988
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    Max fighting Lewis is great for each race and the hopes of Charles driving around them !
    I hope Brembo you mean by that they are so busy fighting each other Charles manages to get past them.
    I could live with that and I'm sure we all could


    Forza Jules

  29. #989
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    Quote Originally Posted by racingbradley View Post
    I hope Brembo you mean by that they are so busy fighting each other Charles manages to get past them.
    I could live with that and I'm sure we all could
    That's exactly what I mean! A pole start for Charles would be even better! I need a race ASAP !

  30. #990
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    That's exactly what I mean! A pole start for Charles would be even better! I need a race ASAP !
    me too.....thank God it's race week.....been too freaking long of a wait.....

    let's hope for a good weekend for Ferrari with pole and win for either of our drivers.....and if we get a 1-2, that'll be the cherry on top of the cake for us Ferrari fans.....
    I'm hoping that the SF1000 proves to be a championship winning car, maybe even a BEAST!!!

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