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Thread: Ferrari SF90

  1. #1111
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    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    Oh sure...the 2017 and 18 cars weren't "winning cars" in Vettel's hand. Just like the SF90 is not a race winning car in Vettel's hand, but a multiple race winning car in Leclerc's hand.
    2017 & 2018 were winning cars n Vettel's hands, he won multiple races with them. Leclerc has won 2 races, should have been 4 but hasn't won a WDC yet.

  2. #1112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    The no down force covers all errors and mistakes @ Ferrari ! Throw in a couple of wrong tire choices to be complete. But... Charles to the rescue anyway!!!
    Exactly. The SF90 doesn't have the levels of downforce that Vettel is used to. The Red bull's had loads of it, the Ferrari's up until this year had lots of downforce. Leclerc drove for Sauber which barely had any, and definitely not at the level of the Ferraris, so he's used to a car that doesn't stick. He's adapted to the SF90 better, probably because it's more like the cars he's used to and probabaly still has better downforce than last year's Sauber.

  3. #1113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tifoso View Post
    LeClerc has ——s. Reminds me of early Schumi, or better, Gilles
    And there you have it. I feel the same bout Charles. He is a mixture of Michael and Gilles, he has a lot of passion and at the same moment he displays a certain kind of boldness/ruthlessness that I last saw with Michael.
    And we need this.
    "If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve

  4. #1114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riccardog View Post
    WOW, sour grapes already?????
    https://www.wheels24.co.za/FormulaOn...ntage-20190917

    Horner is REALLY a 'not very nice human being'...to offset language issues!
    At this point we should remember that 51% of Aston Martin belongs to none other than... Mercedes ;))))))
    "If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve

  5. #1115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    If it is legal then they can fit as many sensors as they want.....
    Also we can start lodging several questions for Mercedes and RBR and watch them add sensors to their cars...
    Of course, I have this strange feeling that our questions will be dismissed vehemently !
    "If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve

  6. #1116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Bob View Post
    I don't understand the hate for Vettel. Yes he's made mistakes, and it's obvious he's trying to overdrive the car. Regardless he's also shown that he's willing to be a team player. He played an integral part in Leclerc's win at Spa. And he's obviously been a great mentor for Charles. Even Leclerc admitted he had to learn to manage his tires as well as Vettel does.. and he's done that. There's no embarrassment in being beaten by a younger, extremely talented driver. Vettel was a Leclerc when he came into F1, so was Hamilton and Alonso. But I bet all of these guys would be beaten or pushed to the limit if they had Leclerc as a team mate.
    So far the dynamic between the two is working so let's not wreck it by asking for Vettel to be replaced. If next years car has any sort of downforce, Vettel will be right up there again.
    ..!!
    We have both drivers who understand each other well & they are pushing the car to extreme limit.
    Hope next year car will solve DF issue & better handling. Both our drivers will get good results out of it & give hard time to mercs.

  7. #1117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Bob View Post
    Exactly. The SF90 doesn't have the levels of downforce that Vettel is used to. The Red bull's had loads of it, the Ferrari's up until this year had lots of downforce. Leclerc drove for Sauber which barely had any, and definitely not at the level of the Ferraris, so he's used to a car that doesn't stick. He's adapted to the SF90 better, probably because it's more like the cars he's used to and probabaly still has better downforce than last year's Sauber.
    Holy ******* ****!?

    How can you be so much misinformed? it is beyond comprehension. Thing is, if you really need an excuse, you should've used any other apart from "Lack of downforce".

    Fact is, current cars are the most fastest and the most downforce producing cars we have ever had in F1. Hell today's cars are even faster than those V10-ABS-Traction control era cars. And if you take the next race into account, last year Hamilton did 1m36.0 in qualifying. By comparison, Vettel in 2013 did 1m42.8 and Alonso in 2010 with the double blown diffuser car did 1m45.3. And I wouldn't be surprised to see a 1m35 lap in this years qualifying. And if we take race pace in to account, current cars 4-4.5/5 seconds/lap faster.

    The SF90 produces more downforce and grip then anything Vettel had ever drove during his time at Red Bull, even with blown diffuser. So your statement "The SF90 doesn't have the levels of downforce that Vettel is used to" is utterly false. Come up with a better excuse next time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Bob View Post
    2017 & 2018 were winning cars n Vettel's hands, he won multiple races with them. Leclerc has won 2 races, should have been 4 but hasn't won a WDC yet.
    By winning cars, I meant championship winning capable cars. And it is proven beyond doubt that both 2017 and 2018 cars were WDC worthy.

  8. #1118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Bob View Post
    I don't understand the hate for Vettel. Yes he's made mistakes, and it's obvious he's trying to overdrive the car. Regardless he's also shown that he's willing to be a team player. He played an integral part in Leclerc's win at Spa. And he's obviously been a great mentor for Charles. Even Leclerc admitted he had to learn to manage his tires as well as Vettel does.. and he's done that. There's no embarrassment in being beaten by a younger, extremely talented driver. Vettel was a Leclerc when he came into F1, so was Hamilton and Alonso. But I bet all of these guys would be beaten or pushed to the limit if they had Leclerc as a team mate.
    So far the dynamic between the two is working so let's not wreck it by asking for Vettel to be replaced. If next years car has any sort of downforce, Vettel will be right up there again.


    Great post Silent Bob! Francorchamps was a true example of a 'team-win'. Great laps by Seb eventhough he knew that he had to let Lewis pass finally.

    That middle part of the race in Belgium, when Charles created the gap and Seb keeping Lewis behind him.. It felt like Japan '97 and Malaysia '99

  9. #1119
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    Vettel: I had the chance to meet him (Michael), and from then on, he was my hero. And then I was following Formula 1. So that’s the beginning of it. That’s where I fell in love with Formula 1, in the mid-’90s.

    Bravo seb.....

    Schumi

  10. #1120
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    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    Holy ******* ****!?

    How can you be so much misinformed? it is beyond comprehension. Thing is, if you really need an excuse, you should've used any other apart from "Lack of downforce".

    Fact is, current cars are the most fastest and the most downforce producing cars we have ever had in F1. Hell today's cars are even faster than those V10-ABS-Traction control era cars. And if you take the next race into account, last year Hamilton did 1m36.0 in qualifying. By comparison, Vettel in 2013 did 1m42.8 and Alonso in 2010 with the double blown diffuser car did 1m45.3. And I wouldn't be surprised to see a 1m35 lap in this years qualifying. And if we take race pace in to account, current cars 4-4.5/5 seconds/lap faster.

    The SF90 produces more downforce and grip then anything Vettel had ever drove during his time at Red Bull, even with blown diffuser. So your statement "The SF90 doesn't have the levels of downforce that Vettel is used to" is utterly false. Come up with a better excuse next time.
    You raise a valid point but you could have done so without being a discourteous *****. Calm the **** down.

  11. #1121
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    So yeah, Charles won two races, never a WDC like Seb has 4xs. No comparison, what's Charles waiting for? He's already gota year in that Ferrari!

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    Updated Floor with new air flow deflectors



    Deflectors ahead of the rear wheel



    New nosecone




  13. #1123
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    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    Holy ******* ****!?

    How can you be so much misinformed? it is beyond comprehension. Thing is, if you really need an excuse, you should've used any other apart from "Lack of downforce".

    Fact is, current cars are the most fastest and the most downforce producing cars we have ever had in F1. Hell today's cars are even faster than those V10-ABS-Traction control era cars. And if you take the next race into account, last year Hamilton did 1m36.0 in qualifying. By comparison, Vettel in 2013 did 1m42.8 and Alonso in 2010 with the double blown diffuser car did 1m45.3. And I wouldn't be surprised to see a 1m35 lap in this years qualifying. And if we take race pace in to account, current cars 4-4.5/5 seconds/lap faster.

    The SF90 produces more downforce and grip then anything Vettel had ever drove during his time at Red Bull, even with blown diffuser. So your statement "The SF90 doesn't have the levels of downforce that Vettel is used to" is utterly false. Come up with a better excuse next time.



    By winning cars, I meant championship winning capable cars. And it is proven beyond doubt that both 2017 and 2018 cars were WDC worthy.

    You know, you state your arguments like you are an F1 expert without really understanding anything at all. Obviously there is a downforce issue with the car, if you would like to argue otherwise, than maybe call Binotto and let him know that he's barking up the wrong development path. Vettel was quick with the 2017 & 2018 cars that had better downforce levels and balance than this years car. Want to dispute this? Maybe you can not comprehend that this year's car is not as balanced as the past cars, this is down to lack of downforce. I understand it and I'm also confident that once that's fixed Vettel will be very quick again.
    Maybe settle yourself a bit before you post and make a fool of yourself.

  14. #1124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    So yeah, Charles won two races, never a WDC like Seb has 4xs. No comparison, what's Charles waiting for? He's already gota year in that Ferrari!
    I predict Charles will win many WDC's if the car he's given is competitive. I would also like a lot of WCC's so I also want to see Vettel be competitive. Unlike others that feel the need to throw Vettel under the bus, I hope he gets back to winning ways soon. The more time we see a Ferrari 1-2 on the podium, the better I feel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Bob View Post
    You know, you state your arguments like you are an F1 expert without really understanding anything at all. Obviously there is a downforce issue with the car, if you would like to argue otherwise, than maybe call Binotto and let him know that he's barking up the wrong development path. Vettel was quick with the 2017 & 2018 cars that had better downforce levels and balance than this years car. Want to dispute this? Maybe you can not comprehend that this year's car is not as balanced as the past cars, this is down to lack of downforce. I understand it and I'm also confident that once that's fixed Vettel will be very quick again.
    Maybe settle yourself a bit before you post and make a fool of yourself.
    Maybe you should read your own post. "The SF90 doesn't have the levels of downforce that Vettel is used to. The Red bull's had loads of it, the Ferrari's up until this year had lots of downforce"...When in my post I ever argued that SF90 has more downforce than the SF70 or SF71. This is what I said: "The SF90 produces more downforce and grip then anything Vettel had ever drove during his time at Red Bull, even with blown diffuser."

    Maybe in your own little universe the Red Bull cars of 2010-2013 had more downforce than the SF90, really says it all as far as your metal faculties being all lined up. And yes the Ferrari's of 2017 and 2018 had plenty of downforce, and what is the end-result? Not even a credible title challenge from Vettel.
    Last edited by tifosi1993; 19th September 2019 at 14:41.

  16. #1126
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    Quote Originally Posted by killer View Post
    You raise a valid point but you could have done so without being a discourteous *****. Calm the **** down.
    I was being blunt. And one has to be after seeing the amount of bs being posted here, "Car doesn't suit him, not used to SF90's so called lack of downforce'...ok let's get someone who can adapt his driving style to SF90's characteristics. And I don't think Ferrari have to spent 40-50 millions either.

  17. #1127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    So yeah, Charles won two races, never a WDC like Seb has 4xs. No comparison, what's Charles waiting for? He's already gota year in that Ferrari!
    Hilarious isn't it. Endless excuses:

    2016: It's a off year for Vettel, next year he will be stronger, Ferrar just need to give him a good car
    2017: Of well nevermind....he will comeback stronger next year
    2018: Doesn't matter, so what he made 7-8 mistakes this year....Vettel will win next year's WDC

    And now we are in 2019, and the story is the same. Wait for next year. Crashed at the back of Verstappen in Silverstone, spun and crashed with Stroll in Monza, 2 costly mistakes in 5 races. But sure, next year is going to be Vettel's year....

  18. #1128
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    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    Maybe you should read your post again. "The SF90 doesn't have the levels of downforce that Vettel is used to. The Red bull's had loads of it, the Ferrari's up until this year had lots of downforce"...When in my post I ever argued that SF90 has more downforce than the SF70 or SF71. This is what I said: "The SF90 produces more downforce and grip then anything Vettel had ever drove during his time at Red Bull, even with blown diffuser."

    Maybe in your own little universe the Red Bull cars of 2010-2013 had more downforce than the SF90, really says it all as far as your metal faculties being all lined up. And yes the Ferrari's of 2017 and 2018 had plenty of downforce, and what is the end-result? Not even a credible title challenge from Vettel.
    You still don't make sense. Vettel is faster this year than he was in 2010 just like everyone else, he's just not as fast as the Mercs and hasn't been as fast as Leclerc. So my argument holds. Maybe you can understand it if I phrase it this way.. He can't drive this year's car faster than his team mate because it lacks the downforce levels he needs to get the maximum out of this car. In other words, he can't keep up with the guys in front. We're comparing cars from this year. not from year's past. He managed to beat everyone else in a few of those years. But I'm pretty sure he'll get on top of it and be competitive again.

  19. #1129
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    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    I was being blunt. And one has to be after seeing the amount of bs being posted here, "Car doesn't suit him, not used to SF90's so called lack of downforce'...ok let's get someone who can adapt his driving style to SF90's characteristics. And I don't think Ferrari have to spent 40-50 millions either.
    By the looks of it, a lot of BS is coming from you. If you think this year should have been a championship year for Ferrari, you might want to tighten up a few screws there.

  20. #1130
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    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    Hilarious isn't it. Endless excuses:

    2016: It's a off year for Vettel, next year he will be stronger, Ferrar just need to give him a good car
    2017: Of well nevermind....he will comeback stronger next year
    2018: Doesn't matter, so what he made 7-8 mistakes this year....Vettel will win next year's WDC

    And now we are in 2019, and the story is the same. Wait for next year. Crashed at the back of Verstappen in Silverstone, spun and crashed with Stroll in Monza, 2 costly mistakes in 5 races. But sure, next year is going to be Vettel's year....
    Hey just for giggles... who would have done a better job at Ferrari in those years? Kimi? Where was he?
    I'm awaiting your expert analysis.

  21. #1131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Bob View Post
    You know, you state your arguments like you are an F1 expert without really understanding anything at all. Obviously there is a downforce issue with the car, if you would like to argue otherwise, than maybe call Binotto and let him know that he's barking up the wrong development path. Vettel was quick with the 2017 & 2018 cars that had better downforce levels and balance than this years car. Want to dispute this? Maybe you can not comprehend that this year's car is not as balanced as the past cars, this is down to lack of downforce. I understand it and I'm also confident that once that's fixed Vettel will be very quick again.
    Maybe settle yourself a bit before you post and make a fool of yourself.
    Well, I want to dispute that. He was fast in 2017 and 2018...against completely different team mate. Kimi was on average only 0.180s behind Seb in 2018. This year, he has 0.04s on Giovanazzi.

    So, his benchmark was likely not as high as it is now or it was in 2014.

  22. #1132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Bob View Post
    By the looks of it, a lot of BS is coming from you. If you think this year should have been a championship year for Ferrari, you might want to tighten up a few screws there.
    You are completely missing a mark. General excuse for Vettels perf vs Leclerc is - "This car doesnt have enough downforce, which makes Vettel uncomfortable in the car".

    Thats BS because, as Tifosi1993 said, SF90 (and last 2 cars Ferrari made) had MORE downforce then ANY RB he ever drove, so saying "Vettel is not used to so little DF compared to his title winning cars" is bad argument, as last 3 cars had more DF then any RB he drove

  23. #1133
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkchild View Post
    You are completely missing a mark. General excuse for Vettels perf vs Leclerc is - "This car doesnt have enough downforce, which makes Vettel uncomfortable in the car".

    Thats BS because, as Tifosi1993 said, SF90 (and last 2 cars Ferrari made) had MORE downforce then ANY RB he ever drove, so saying "Vettel is not used to so little DF compared to his title winning cars" is bad argument, as last 3 cars had more DF then any RB he drove
    Maybe read my other post. If you want to go down that route, Vettel with a car that had good downforce was quicker than everybody. Can't compare cars from different era. Lets not be silly.

  24. #1134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Bob View Post
    Hey just for giggles... who would have done a better job at Ferrari in those years?
    Easy question. Charles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by darkchild View Post
    Well, I want to dispute that. He was fast in 2017 and 2018...against completely different team mate. Kimi was on average only 0.180s behind Seb in 2018. This year, he has 0.04s on Giovanazzi.

    So, his benchmark was likely not as high as it is now or it was in 2014.
    Really? where does that data come from? If Giovanazzi was only that far behind he would have a bunch more points than he has. Maybe we should be looking at points and finishing positions.
    He was fast in 2017 and 2018 against the rest of the field as well, for most of the season. Maybe a couple of races where he could have counted on some support from his team mate could have made the season a lot closer. Maybe reverting to an older aero package a little earlier would have helped. There are lots of variables that can change a season. Did his mistakes cost him, for sure. He has to live with that. As I have said earlier, I'd like to see him get his act together quickly so we can start winning. Unlike some of the others on here, I think Vettel and Leclerc can be a good pairing and they seem to work together so I'd like to see him stay. Problem for Ferrari in the past has been too many changes, and too many on here always call for someone to be fired if we have a bad season. How's that worked so far?
    I like Vettel, he's a class guy and seems like a team player so I'd like him to stay. I like Leclerc and he's going to be the future. If both of these guys are on top of their game, we'll have lots of wins and 1-2 podiums. Last thing we need is tho keep changing things

  26. #1136
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisFerrari View Post
    Easy question. Charles.
    Ya? And everyone else that didn't drive for Ferrari at that time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Bob View Post
    Blah Blah Blam
    So the law's of physics only apply to Vettel
    More downforce=more friction=more grip, anyone will be fast in a car with plenty of downforce. Not just Vettel....
    And those aren't arguments, those are excuses. So Vettel will be fast with more downforce but Leclerc somehow isn't going to be? Hilarious. Fact is, downforce or not Leclerc would still beat Vettel. And with more downforce, the margin of Leclerc's advantage over Vettel would get bigger.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Bob View Post
    Loud Blah Blah Blah
    Who said anything about winning this years championship!? You need your medicines Bob.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Bob View Post
    Even more loud blah blah blah
    Kimi is in F1 driving for Alfa Romeo Bob. Forgotten already!? come on man, take up those medicines.
    Ah...well I never claimed to be an expert, but being acknowledged as one is nice.

    But coming from you....that doesn't mean much. Funny thing is, when Vettel had Kimi/Webber as teammates, we never heard anything about lack of downforce/car not suiting Vettel. But as soon as he had teammates like Ricciardo/Charles, the car suddenly doesn't suit him.

    Well enough with the excuses, just admit the facts, that Leclerc is a better driver and Vettel will never win a championship again. Vettel's time at Ferrari is at end, and hopefully 2020 will be his last year with the red team.

  28. #1138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Bob View Post
    Maybe read my other post. If you want to go down that route, Vettel with a car that had good downforce was quicker than everybody. Can't compare cars from different era. Lets not be silly.
    No. Vettel with a car that had MOST downforce was better then anyone, that paints completely different picture. Button was better then anyone in Brawn, yet he is nowhere near Top 10 drivers ever.

    Vettel driving best car with most downforce and being better then everyone in slower cars means nada.

  29. #1139
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisFerrari View Post
    Easy question. Charles.
    Keep the same driver beside ham, Wts the outcome ?? He will smash ham by a distance. Then the same topic Lewis doesn’t like the car, he’s not at the top level bla bla bla....!! It goes on.
    These current age drivers had it easy. Especially Lewis, if Charles was there at that time even Lewis ham would be far away in the points.

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    Quote Originally Posted by darkchild View Post
    You are completely missing a mark. General excuse for Vettels perf vs Leclerc is - "This car doesnt have enough downforce, which makes Vettel uncomfortable in the car".

    Thats BS because, as Tifosi1993 said, SF90 (and last 2 cars Ferrari made) had MORE downforce then ANY RB he ever drove, so saying "Vettel is not used to so little DF compared to his title winning cars" is bad argument, as last 3 cars had more DF then any RB he drove
    It’s just Leclerc is fast & vettel is slow. This is the current form & we all know that he’s struggling.
    Now few people are coming up quoting BS of 2016,17,18 etc.
    Did anyone expect 2015 car will win any race ? After disastrous 2014.
    When there were wins, they didn’t acknowledge. Now when they see max, all r dropping their pants n want vettel to be out n bring Max in.

    wanna ask one question..!! Lec & max both in same team. Few of them called both as future/current stars.
    Tmrw, if one outqualifies the other in quali & race by a big margin, so other driver becomes ordinary ?? Who once called him a future star? If yes, then it’s the same with vet & Lec ..! Why don’t they accept it?

    Kimi was with ferrari 5yrs with 1win & couple of poles. Where were these guys during that time.?
    It’s just these people hate Vettel. Saga continues from RB days

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