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Thread: Ferrari SF90

  1. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by wisepie View Post
    Can anyone actually confirm that Merc have some kind of rear-wheel steering, which I thought was banned. It's strange how their car seems to work on any circuit without too much compromise. And does the SF90 need a complete overhaul already? That front wing looks outwash design looks like it was a misjudgement too, so I don't fancy our chances without serious upgrades sooner rather than later. Easier said than done, and our history of upgrades isn't usually very successful. So what next?
    Original article: https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/so...riori/3186153/

    Rear wheel steering = breaking the inside wheel in a corner, to help it rotate more and can only be done with software. F1 cars go through scrutinizing every race and Mercedes would never pass the inspection. And if there was an illegal suspension on the Merc all the teams would've come out by now. I'd say we should ignore this story.

    So what next? upgrades. Mercedes relentlessly bringing upgrades to each race, and I'm yet to see anything new on our car.

  2. #332
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    not sure how reliable this is, but apparently Honda could be bringing a power upgrade to Baku:

    https://thejudge13.com/2019/04/15/ma...rade-for-baku/

  3. #333
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    Article from auto-motor-und-sport.

    Apparently Vettel's team radio at the end of qualifying was about the wind, it was stronger for him than for the Merc drivers, so he claims at least. Others speculate that it could be reliability related, it could be that they have to occasionally turn down the engines due to that.

    Also Binotto confirmed that they are producing something like the Merc rear wing (speculated to be in Barcelona, most likely will require more tweaks then though). He also said that they focus first on performance, and then on reliability. Claims that the only outlier is Melbourne. Testing, Shanghai and Bahrain were within a couple of tenths: "depending on the track we have some limitations".

    Vettel seems to suspect that the lack of grip in slow corners has probably more to do with the tyres, namely the temperatures and tyre pressures (basically the performance in quick corners is too good to blame it on lacking downforce, even if they currently have less than Mercedes). Merc engineers are a bit speculating whether many corners in succession are what could be bad for Ferrari since (unlike Bahrain) the tyres dont get that many opportunities to cool down in Melbourne and Shanghai.

    https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/...hnik-probleme/

  4. #334
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    Rosberg comments

    https://www.planetf1.com/news/rosber...ynamics-wrong/

    Rosberg says the Ferrari has not enough aerodynamic load. This seems inline with what we see on the track, Ferrari having a big advantage on the straights because it doesn't have so much resistance.

    To me the disturbing part about his comments is when he says they tried to put more rear wing but they didn't have a new rear wing. The development speed of Ferrari seems again a disaster. We are not talking about a new aero concept, just a rear wing...
    Let's hope they can correct the wrong aero concept. For Barcelona, should be possible to have a B spec (if it was Merceds, for sure).

  5. #335
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    If Ferrari wouldn't have enough aerodynamical load, it would lose a lot in high speed corners, but they are up there with Mercedes. Ferrari loses in slow corners where downforce is not that important.

  6. #336
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    Quote Originally Posted by nuni View Post
    https://www.planetf1.com/news/rosber...ynamics-wrong/

    Rosberg says the Ferrari has not enough aerodynamic load. This seems inline with what we see on the track, Ferrari having a big advantage on the straights because it doesn't have so much resistance.

    To me the disturbing part about his comments is when he says they tried to put more rear wing but they didn't have a new rear wing. The development speed of Ferrari seems again a disaster. We are not talking about a new aero concept, just a rear wing...
    Let's hope they can correct the wrong aero concept. For Barcelona, should be possible to have a B spec (if it was Merceds, for sure).
    He’s bunch of crap. Don’t know from past 2yrs he’s talking a lot nonsense.
    If aero package is not good. They wouldn’t have taken pole position.
    I think China, this is front-end limited track. Performance varies to track specific.
    Also tyre pressure which were altered on Saturday should be taken into account.

    Will see in Baku.
    "I've always believed that you should never, ever give up and you should always keep fighting even when there's only a slightest chance " : - Michael Schumacher

  7. #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    Heís bunch of crap. Donít know from past 2yrs heís talking a lot nonsense.
    If aero package is not good. They wouldnít have taken pole position.
    I think China, this is front-end limited track. Performance varies to track specific.
    Also tyre pressure which were altered on Saturday should be taken into account.

    Will see in Baku.
    idk nani_s23, Nico has been in the paddock ALOT these past GP's and acoording to AMuS it confirms his findings (aside from the pit wall strat calls)

    [AMuS]

    Binotto confirmed that they are working on a rear wing similar to Mercedes (that means also correction to the front wing)

    Binotto: "First comes the lap time, then the reliability."


    also from Schmidt [AMuS]

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D4RSntQWkAAPEF4.jpg

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D4RSntZWsAEQiU7.jpg

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D4RSntNW4AEf709.jpg
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  8. #338
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    idk nani_s23, Nico has been in the paddock ALOT these past GP's and acoording to AMuS it confirms his findings (aside from the pit wall strat calls)

    [AMuS]

    Binotto confirmed that they are working on a rear wing similar to Mercedes (that means also correction to the front wing)

    Binotto: "First comes the lap time, then the reliability."


    also from Schmidt [AMuS]

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D4RSntQWkAAPEF4.jpg

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D4RSntZWsAEQiU7.jpg

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D4RSntNW4AEf709.jpg
    I know that he’s been in the paddock. But if u see his statements every week ... he says one thing & result will be different thing.
    Compared to mercs, ferrari having less DF that’s it. It’s not that ferrari aero is weak. To tweak the package there should be some fixes like bringing new RW, floor etc...!!
    "I've always believed that you should never, ever give up and you should always keep fighting even when there's only a slightest chance " : - Michael Schumacher

  9. #339
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    Ferrari still can not unlock the potential of the car from f1 news 24. Seriously then why build such a complicated car when your racing staff are unable to hook it up correctly for maximum results come on Ferrari this is not a university experiment because if it is you are failing the course badly time is running out and the f1 season has just started start unlocking the cars potential f1 needs you to take the fight to mercedes or it's doomed.

  10. #340
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    Could someone with more experience help me out by naming the front-limited tracks that have left in the calendar? I read about a possible explanation that due to our wing concept we might face some trouble when going to these circuits so I'd be interested.

  11. #341
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    The SF90 is not a bad or poorly designed car. Something changed from Testing to season - nothing to do but review the data & put together a good update to get the car back to the form it showed in Barcelona. All the experts thought Ferrari was the leader coming in to season, shouldn't be too tough to claw back some performance.
    Forza Ferrari !
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  12. #342
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    Quote Originally Posted by abbottcostello View Post
    The SF90 is not a bad or poorly designed car. Something changed from Testing to season - nothing to do but review the data & put together a good update to get the car back to the form it showed in Barcelona. All the experts thought Ferrari was the leader coming in to season, shouldn't be too tough to claw back some performance.
    Could it be that Barcelona showed the better aspects of the car due to the circuit layout which may have fooled everyone into thinking the car was brilliant but circuits like Oz and China are showing the car has some weaknesses that the team maybe didn't think would be quite as bad.

  13. #343
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    Quote Originally Posted by jragona View Post
    Could it be that Barcelona showed the better aspects of the car due to the circuit layout which may have fooled everyone into thinking the car was brilliant but circuits like Oz and China are showing the car has some weaknesses that the team maybe didn't think would be quite as bad.
    But isn’t Barcelona a track that shows weaknesses of a car? In the past it was said that a car that shows good in testing in Barca is a good base car to start with. So in this case our car looked pretty good there so what’s the problem?

    2 things I can think of, Merc was REALLY sandbagging big time OR being cooler temps as it was in testing worked better with these new tires.....I don’t know, I’m just guesstimating here
    ...the new SF90 in the MATTE RED, to me it looks amazing. Let's hope it's gonna be as FAST as it looks.


  14. #344
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    Merc is just to far out front with their car and just keep things interesting season to season. I'm pretty sure they have had over 1000 hp for a long time and have better people in place thru the whole organization. I don't think we will win till the next engine/tire change that everyone starts from scratch. Plus open testing.

  15. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by sxviper698 View Post
    Merc is just to far out front with their car and just keep things interesting season to season. I'm pretty sure they have had over 1000 hp for a long time and have better people in place thru the whole organization. I don't think we will win till the next engine/tire change that everyone starts from scratch. Plus open testing.
    I’m afraid unlimited track testing will NEVER be in the cards anytime soon, so ferrari better smarten up and hire some good people that know how to use the wind tunnel and CFD as these have been the things to use since 2009 when unlimited track testing was banned
    ...the new SF90 in the MATTE RED, to me it looks amazing. Let's hope it's gonna be as FAST as it looks.


  16. #346
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    wasn't there a general consensus that Ferrari have turned their engines down due to reliability issues? or was that just inaccurate speculation?

  17. #347
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrarichamp View Post
    wasn't there a general consensus that Ferrari have turned their engines down due to reliability issues? or was that just inaccurate speculation?
    That was true in Oz, not sure about the other 2 races.

  18. #348
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    I think our car could be strong In Baku, Spain, Montreal, Austria, Silverstone, Hockenheim. With some wins we can quickly strike back at the Mercedes, but we have to massively improve our slow-corner perfomance. A new front, rear wing designed for that kind of solution could help us, so we can strike back.

    Never stop believing.

  19. #349
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vettel165 View Post
    I think our car could be strong In Baku, Spain, Montreal, Austria, Silverstone, Hockenheim. With some wins we can quickly strike back at the Mercedes, but we have to massively improve our slow-corner perfomance. A new front, rear wing designed for that kind of solution could help us, so we can strike back.

    Never stop believing.
    better be strong in Montreal.....as i've got tickets there in GS 11, also known as Senna corner.....a repeat of last year's WIN for Ferrari would be awesome.....don't matter to me WHICH driver wins

    but yeah, like you said, Ferrari better improve the car so it works as good or if not better then the Merc in the slow corners
    ...the new SF90 in the MATTE RED, to me it looks amazing. Let's hope it's gonna be as FAST as it looks.


  20. #350
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    well anything can happen in Baku, we'll probably get a SC/VSC.

  21. #351
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    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    Original article: https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/so...riori/3186153/

    Rear wheel steering = breaking the inside wheel in a corner, to help it rotate more and can only be done with software. F1 cars go through scrutinizing every race and Mercedes would never pass the inspection. And if there was an illegal suspension on the Merc all the teams would've come out by now. I'd say we should ignore this story.

    So what next? upgrades. Mercedes relentlessly bringing upgrades to each race, and I'm yet to see anything new on our car.
    Thanks tifosi, and in China the tyre pressures were upped, I believe, and if we are having trouble getting them to work, that may have made a difference to our performance. I wonder why the pressures were changed, another word in Pirelli's ear from Merc?

  22. #352
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    Quote Originally Posted by wisepie View Post
    Thanks tifosi, and in China the tyre pressures were upped, I believe, and if we are having trouble getting them to work, that may have made a difference to our performance. I wonder why the pressures were changed, another word in Pirelli's ear from Merc?
    Iím sure they upped the tire pressure by 1psi for safety reasons and for the interest of the sport and NOT to give Mercedes an advantage....yeah right
    ...the new SF90 in the MATTE RED, to me it looks amazing. Let's hope it's gonna be as FAST as it looks.


  23. #353
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    Quote Originally Posted by nuni View Post
    https://www.planetf1.com/news/rosber...ynamics-wrong/

    Rosberg says the Ferrari has not enough aerodynamic load. This seems inline with what we see on the track, Ferrari having a big advantage on the straights because it doesn't have so much resistance.

    To me the disturbing part about his comments is when he says they tried to put more rear wing but they didn't have a new rear wing. The development speed of Ferrari seems again a disaster. We are not talking about a new aero concept, just a rear wing...
    Let's hope they can correct the wrong aero concept. For Barcelona, should be possible to have a B spec (if it was Merceds, for sure).
    Please, dont listen to Rosberg, he doesnt know a much other than getting getting hammered by Lewis. Ferrari has a good base, they just cannot get the tiers to work. The car is less resistant to air because of the car has a less area especially at the rollhoop.

  24. #354
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    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    Original article: https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/so...riori/3186153/

    Rear wheel steering = breaking the inside wheel in a corner, to help it rotate more and can only be done with software. F1 cars go through scrutinizing every race and Mercedes would never pass the inspection. And if there was an illegal suspension on the Merc all the teams would've come out by now. I'd say we should ignore this story.

    So what next? upgrades. Mercedes relentlessly bringing upgrades to each race, and I'm yet to see anything new on our car.
    You can impliment rear wheel steering. It can be done with the tollerances. If the programming allows a 5% tollerence for each wheel, that is 10% difference from left to right. So you can reduce that tollerance and add induced braking difference to fill the tollerance gap, even if its 4%, it helps. adding 4% more brake pressire to one rear wheel is enough! You can tell they have a brake steer system because they way they carry speed into the apex, they brake into the apex, Ferrari brake mostly in a straight line. Mercedes has lower traction but Ferrari has better traction. If Ferrari can get their tiers to work and increase the corner entry speed a tad, they will win easily.

  25. #355
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    Quote Originally Posted by mardyrt View Post
    Please, dont listen to Rosberg, he doesnt know a much other than getting getting hammered by Lewis. Ferrari has a good base, they just cannot get the tiers to work. The car is less resistant to air because of the car has a less area especially at the rollhoop.
    Getting tyres working is also down to downforce

  26. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by evo_spook View Post
    Getting tyres working is also down to downforce
    it is not that simple. Even if you have downforce, if you overheat your tyers or does not put heat into the tyers, you will loose grip, no matter how much downforce you have, you slide off, tyers stick to the road when it is in the best temps. Also, tyres are the place where the car touch the ground, if your tyers are not in temp, then no matter how much downforce you have, they will not give you the grip. If you have downforce, (which we have, because we are really good in fast corners) you can overheat your tyers, or you have special rims, it may cool the tyers too much and take them out of the working range. If you raise the tyer pressures, it might not put enough heat into the tyers to make them work.
    Last edited by mardyrt; 20th April 2019 at 01:37.

  27. #357
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    Quote Originally Posted by mardyrt View Post
    it is not that simple. Even if you have downforce, if you overheat your tyers or does not put heat into the tyers, you will loose grip, no matter how much downforce you have, you slide off, tyers stick to the road when it is in the best temps. Also, tyres are the place where the car touch the ground, if your tyers are not in temp, then no matter how much downforce you have, they will not give you the grip. If you have downforce, (which we have, because we are really good in fast corners) you can overheat your tyers, or you have special rims, it may cool the tyers too much and take them out of the working range. If you raise the tyer pressures, it might not put enough heat into the tyers to make them work.
    And what happened to our suspension? The fancy one that lowers on the straight?

  28. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aziz View Post
    And what happened to our suspension? The fancy one that lowers on the straight?
    I think we still have that. It doesnt affect the tires that much or at all. It just helps the car to squat down, reduce drag on the straights, reducing the front wing angle and rear.

  29. #359
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    There is a saying in life that the simple things are usually the best mercedes have a simple f1 car and it's easy to set up week in week out they always hit the track in a positive way.Ferrari on the other hand struggle to set up to maximise performance is the Ferrari a good car probably yes is it a complicated one it certainly appears that way.

  30. #360
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    Quote Originally Posted by paolo lalli View Post
    There is a saying in life that the simple things are usually the best mercedes have a simple f1 car and it's easy to set up week in week out they always hit the track in a positive way.Ferrari on the other hand struggle to set up to maximise performance is the Ferrari a good car probably yes is it a complicated one it certainly appears that way.
    Very well said ! The Ferrari car certainly appears complicated beyond their ability to best match the car with the next track. But deep down I believe driver error is more the problem so far.

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