Ferrari SF90

**512 TR** · 14th May 2019, 18:44

Somebody has to throw this question out there. What if the SF90 is a mule for 2020? What if they decided, during the winter, to use the entire 2019 season as one giant testing session to get it exactly right for 2020, the last year of the current Concorde agreement and sporting regulations? Could Ferrari be so bold and do something like that?

**FerrariF60** · 14th May 2019, 18:47

Originally Posted by 512 TR

Somebody has to throw this question out there. What if the SF90 is a mule for 2020? What if they decided, during the winter, to use the entire 2019 season as one giant testing session to get it exactaly right for 2020, the last year of the current Concorde agreement and sporting regulations? Could Ferrari be so bold and do something like that?

i highly DOUBT IT....why would you do something like that, when you could try and WIN 2019 adn 2020.....i think it's a total non sense

**FerrariF60** · 14th May 2019, 18:49

Originally Posted by 512 TR

Somebody has to throw this question out there. What if the SF90 is a mule for 2020? What if they decided, during the winter, to use the entire 2019 season as one giant testing session to get it exactly right for 2020, the last year of the current Concorde agreement and sporting regulations? Could Ferrari be so bold and do something like that?

oh, and during the winter adn winter tests, they thought they had a pretty good car....but they forgot Merc are masters at SAND BAGGING....

**Kyss4k** · 14th May 2019, 20:09

Originally Posted by 512 TR

Somebody has to throw this question out there. What if the SF90 is a mule for 2020? What if they decided, during the winter, to use the entire 2019 season as one giant testing session to get it exactly right for 2020, the last year of the current Concorde agreement and sporting regulations? Could Ferrari be so bold and do something like that?

Stop with these conspiracies finally! Every year, all the time people say "oh we have bi update coming" or "oh, what if this track/tyres/weather was bad for us" or "oh what if we're making B car in secret or something"... NO! We are just not competent enough, there is no trickery, we failed. Year after year we failed. There is nothing deep behind it, so stop, please.

**Greig** · 14th May 2019, 21:03

Originally Posted by 512 TR

Somebody has to throw this question out there. What if the SF90 is a mule for 2020? What if they decided, during the winter, to use the entire 2019 season as one giant testing session to get it exactly right for 2020, the last year of the current Concorde agreement and sporting regulations? Could Ferrari be so bold and do something like that?

**Greig** · 14th May 2019, 21:04

Originally Posted by Kyss4k

Stop with these conspiracies finally! Every year, all the time people say "oh we have bi update coming" or "oh, what if this track/tyres/weather was bad for us" or "oh what if we're making B car in secret or something"... NO! We are just not competent enough, there is no trickery, we failed. Year after year we failed. There is nothing deep behind it, so stop, please.

Yep, we are not good enough and seem rather clueless at the moment.....could be darker times ahead..

**The Architect** · 14th May 2019, 21:13

Originally Posted by Greig

Yep, we are not good enough and seem rather clueless at the moment.....could be darker times ahead..

I think there's a distinct chance Ferrari will finish behind a Formula 1.5 team at Monaco.

**512 TR** · 14th May 2019, 21:51

Originally Posted by FerrariF60

i highly DOUBT IT....why would you do something like that, when you could try and WIN 2019 adn 2020.....i think it's a total non sense

Originally Posted by FerrariF60

oh, and during the winter adn winter tests, they thought they had a pretty good car....but they forgot Merc are masters at SAND BAGGING....

Originally Posted by Kyss4k

Stop with these conspiracies finally! Every year, all the time people say "oh we have bi update coming" or "oh, what if this track/tyres/weather was bad for us" or "oh what if we're making B car in secret or something"... NO! We are just not competent enough, there is no trickery, we failed. Year after year we failed. There is nothing deep behind it, so stop, please.

Somebody has to ask these questions because nobody else is. I've never seen such a disinterested pitwall, like ours, in my life. It seems they just don't care what really goes on in the races. It's like there is something more important to track. I refuse to believe they are incompetent. It's like the final result doesn't matter. Or did they just give up after what happend in Bahrain?

**ferrari1.8t** · 15th May 2019, 01:32

Originally Posted by 512 TR

Somebody has to throw this question out there. What if the SF90 is a mule for 2020? What if they decided, during the winter, to use the entire 2019 season as one giant testing session to get it exactly right for 2020, the last year of the current Concorde agreement and sporting regulations? Could Ferrari be so bold and do something like that?

Hey, I’m always ready for a good conspiracy theory, but you are really reaching with this one. It’s ridiculous actually. You want to know why the pitwall is so disengaged? It’s because they have accepted defeat. They know it’s over and no matter what they do Mercedes will win. Greig said it best; we have some really dark days ahead. The car is flawed, the staff are clueless, the media are ready with the pitchforks, the tifosi are tired and these rules are here for another season. Also, there is no guarantee we will figure out the next formula either.

**killer** · 15th May 2019, 01:48

Originally Posted by 512 TR

Somebody has to throw this question out there. What if the SF90 is a mule for 2020? What if they decided, during the winter, to use the entire 2019 season as one giant testing session to get it exactly right for 2020, the last year of the current Concorde agreement and sporting regulations? Could Ferrari be so bold and do something like that?

No. The pitwall not even knowing the strategies for cars 5 & 16 answers your question more than aptly.

**killer** · 15th May 2019, 01:52

Originally Posted by 512 TR

Somebody has to ask these questions because nobody else is. I've never seen such a disinterested pitwall, like ours, in my life. It seems they just don't care what really goes on in the races. It's like there is something more important to track. I refuse to believe they are incompetent. It's like the final result doesn't matter. Or did they just give up after what happend in Bahrain?

"When you hear hoofbeats, think of horses not zebras." A very slow, confused horse in this case.

**Brembo** · 15th May 2019, 03:19

Originally Posted by 512 TR

Somebody has to ask these questions because nobody else is. I've never seen such a disinterested pitwall, like ours, in my life. It seems they just don't care what really goes on in the races. It's like there is something more important to track. I refuse to believe they are incompetent. It's like the final result doesn't matter. Or did they just give up after what happend in Bahrain?

It appears the pit wall is divided as to who should be the preferred driver during each race. Not even about what's going on as much as who each one prefers. The drivers wind up confused as to who should pass and when. The car seems to be almost or as good as Merc in most areas. Tire choice alone is a disaster. All Seb's success was while driving for the enemies, waving his finger and so on. Here now @ Ferrari he's not even better than at least the three top other drivers. Charles' success so far and what success is surely coming is with his home grown team Ferrari! That's where it's at. Who really needs to know how good a driver was when with the enemy if he can't get it done now with Ferrari ? Between races 100% effort should be getting Charles a car that can get him on pole. Then let him race the hell out of what he's driving. Supposedly Seb is a proven champion and can do it on his own experience with a good car. Merc are what they are as far as putting a great car out there to compete , but no way should a R Bull Honda powered, be getting the podium over Ferrari!

**jgonzalesm6** · 15th May 2019, 03:27

Ferrari has admitted that the car concept for 2019 is wrong.

They are basing it on the front wing aero when compared to Mercedes. Mercedes concept allows for more downforce w/o upsetting the cars balance.

The car has alot of understeer and Binotto admitted they are losing time in all corners at Barcelona.

Is it more than just downfoce?? That is something Binotto and the team need to analyze and understand.

Is it just downforce, is it a matter of balance, or is the car concept wrong. I don't know says Binotto.

**jgonzalesm6** · 15th May 2019, 03:40

Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6

Ferrari has admitted that the car concept for 2019 is wrong.

They are basing it on the front wing aero when compared to Mercedes. Mercedes concept allows for more downforce w/o upsetting the cars balance.

The car has alot of understeer and Binotto admitted they are losing time in all corners at Barcelona.

Is it more than just downfoce?? That is something Binotto and the team need to analyze and understand.

Is it just downforce, is it a matter of balance, or is the car concept wrong. I don't know says Binotto.

We know from this it's not the PU. I think it is aero but more importantly, Mercedes have optimized their cars suspension geometry to take full advantage of the W10's cornering ability front and rear.

The way that W10 moved in S3 at Barcelona was on another level.

**Brembo** · 15th May 2019, 03:44

"I don't know" , coming from Binotto is about as bad as it can get ! Again, just what is it that Binotto and Co. are concentrating on? Did Ferrari pick his name out of a hat?

**paolo lalli** · 15th May 2019, 09:43

Rather disappointing that binotto does not know the answer to the problem. I do not believe this he knows what the problem is but the solution is large scale probably a redesigned front end which takes time.The question he is asking himself is when do I break the bad news to the f1 world.

**jgonzalesm6** · 15th May 2019, 09:48

[AMuS] Ferrari's concept car dilemma

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D6lhF2vW4AAWukS.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D6lhF2tX4AAvhOO.jpg

**chinmay** · 15th May 2019, 10:55

Originally Posted by paolo lalli

Rather disappointing that binotto does not know the answer to the problem. I do not believe this he knows what the problem is but the solution is large scale probably a redesigned front end which takes time.The question he is asking himself is when do I break the bad news to the f1 world.

I don't think Binotto doesn't know the problem or solution. He just doesn't want to say in public. Internally, they have probably already started work on the new concept and they have to do it this year because next year the regulations remain the same. So they can use the next 15-16 races to test a lot of things, change front wing, entire concept, whatever they need to do.

Binotto is a technical genius, it is not possible that he is still finding answers.

**ferrari1.8t** · 15th May 2019, 11:28

Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6

[AMuS] Ferrari's concept car dilemma

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D6lhF2vW4AAWukS.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D6lhF2tX4AAvhOO.jpg

Two things stood out for me in that article-

1. “Because they get the tyres in the ideal working window...Mercedes keeps the tyres in that window constantly and does not shot over the top”
2. “Mercedes engineers told us that Hamilton didn’t even drive at full power”

I’ve always maintained that mercs dominance has a lot to do with tyre management. Something has always been fishy about MercPirelli.

If Hamilton wasn’t at full power it furthers what we all have been saying - that Merc has an unlimited tap that they can open whenever needed. Basically, no point in even showing up to the Grand Prix very weekend. All teams have lost before they even show up.

Which brings me to my last point, testing. Yes, we took advantage of it in the past. Yet teams should have some freedom to test at their base/factories prior to the season. The sport talks about budgets, and cost savings. Imagine spending 400 million dollars to find out you took the wrong development path. With no testing it is a crap shoot relying on wind tunnel and simulator data. It’s absolutely wrong to tie the manufactures hands like that. Things need to change because Merc will win every race this year barring any breakdown. They also already looked poised to take next years WCC and WDC.

**distortion** · 15th May 2019, 11:33

I don’t think it’s so much... what Ferrari got wrong, but what Mercedes has that’s better than the rest.

If you look at at the telemetry from ALL cars. Ferrari’s corner entry and apex are as good or better than the rest!

Mercedes corner “entry” is nothing special. But... apex through exit they’re tops in every corner type except sweepers taken full on.

Tires could be a part of the extra traction. I would bet on something a little more mechanically trick. No other cars are close to them.

It’s not that we got it wrong. Mercedes just have it extra right. Time for a second sensor? I think so.

**jgonzalesm6** · 15th May 2019, 14:52

Monaco is going to do it for me regarding MB rest of the season dominance IF they do another 1-2 there.

Lewis, or the W0x's, have'nt done well there in the last 2yrs.

If they lock-out in Monaco, MB is already a year ahead and it will take time for Ferrari & RB to figure out why MB are on rails in the corners.

RedBull will be "gunning" for Ferrari. MB are just too fast in the corners. MB are equal to Ferrari in the straights. Spa looks to be tight because that track is free flowing.

**ferrari1.8t** · 15th May 2019, 14:56

More proof that a lot of the performance gains have to do with the tyres...

Full Story:

https://ca.motorsport.com/f1/news/fe...esses/4388750/

“Several teams have had problems making the thinner-gauge Pirelli tyres work so far in 2019, with Red Bull driver Max Verstappen going as far as saying Mercedes is the only outfit that is on top of the changed tyre specification.

Binotto said: "The tyres are difficult to manage, that is true. Tyres are a significant key performance factor of the car and so management and optimisation is key for the overall performance of the car itself.”

Aren’t this years thinner gauge tyres the same ones that were used 3 times last year that benefited Mercedes? Actually the specification that Mercedes requested?

**chinmay** · 15th May 2019, 15:44

Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6

Monaco is going to do it for me regarding MB rest of the season dominance IF they do another 1-2 there.

Lewis, or the W0x's, have'nt done well there in the last 2yrs.

If they lock-out in Monaco, MB is already a year ahead and it will take time for Ferrari & RB to figure out why MB are on rails in the corners.

RedBull will be "gunning" for Ferrari. MB are just too fast in the corners.

If? Surely you aren't serious. In Monaco, Mercedes 1-2 is done deal. Red Bull 3-4 is already printed. The only question is how far will Ferrari be and which row will Ferrari be fighting for? 3rd row or 4th row? As Haas was faster than Ferrari in Barcelona corners.

**nani_s23** · 15th May 2019, 16:23

Originally Posted by chinmay

If? Surely you aren't serious. In Monaco, Mercedes 1-2 is done deal. Red Bull 3-4 is already printed. The only question is how far will Ferrari be and which row will Ferrari be fighting for? 3rd row or 4th row? As Haas was faster than Ferrari in Barcelona corners.

Ferrari will fight for podium finish Max/vettel/Leclerc.

**Ferrarichamp** · 15th May 2019, 16:38

would be nice to see some rain in Monaco, maybe mix things up a bit.

**FerrariF60** · 15th May 2019, 16:51

Originally Posted by nani_s23

Ferrari will fight for podium finish Max/vettel/Leclerc.

...and then you woke up from a nasty dream....lol

**Ferrarichamp** · 15th May 2019, 16:54

Maybe Max could split the Mercs, finish ahead of Bottas?
He did keep Valtteri pretty honest in Spain.

**jgonzalesm6** · 15th May 2019, 17:10

Originally Posted by ferrari1.8t

Aren’t this years thinner gauge tyres the same ones that were used 3 times last year that benefited Mercedes? Actually the specification that Mercedes requested?

yep, these are the same ones from last year. Where they shaved off 4mm of rubber or something like that.

Whether it benefited Mercedes or Mercedes requested them is open for debate. We tested in them and apparently did well with them under testing conditions.

Now under racing conditions, teams are having issues with the questionable "tire window" but Mercedes appear to be doing fine in them; RedBull too. They've always had tire issues in the beginning of the season except for this year.

Right when we catch up to them in the PU dept, now it's the tires IF that's the issue.

What's next?? An oil that has to use 50% less crude oil and more biodegradeable petrochemicals??? Probably one that Petronas already is working on right now for 2021. Advantage Mercedes once again.[sarcasm]

**Greig** · 15th May 2019, 17:30

Originally Posted by ferrari1.8t

Aren’t this years thinner gauge tyres the same ones that were used 3 times last year that benefited Mercedes? Actually the specification that Mercedes requested?

Sure we performed pretty well on those tyres though apart from Spain, think we won a race and should have won had Seb not made a mistake....