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Thread: Vettel or Leclerc

  1. #151
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  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post


    Slow in slow speed corner = lack of downforce, nothing to do with mechanical grip
    But fast in high speed corner = !?

    Dude you're about as sharp as a bowling ball. Next you'd be saying earth is flat.

    PF1 forum is a much better place for you, you can post as many BS as you like there and use meme's to defend your claim.
    He was the forum clown there. It was all about Vettel this and Vettel that. Vettel Never made a mistake and Vettel is the god of racing.

    He even said Hamilton sucked in the wet because he crashed out in Brazil Q1 2017. Ignoring the fact Hamilton has won most of the rain races since 2007.

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by chinmay View Post
    Ever heard about laptimes? Red Bull was 2 tenths slower than Ferrari in China 2019 qualifying and finished 14 seconds behind Ferrari in race (around 2 tenths deficit per lap).

    In Baku, Red Bull was less than 3 tenths slower than Ferrari despite those long straights. In race, Red Bull finished 7 seconds behind Ferrari. Red Bull had issues in first 2 races, they already improved dramatically since China.

    It's always a good time to say hello to facts!
    Why don't you say hello to facts then? You ignore the fact Ferrari has been claimed the best car by a lot of experts all over the world since 2017, yet you blame Ferrari for Vettel's lack of titles in 2017 and 2018.

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Formula 1 fan View Post
    He was the forum clown there. It was all about Vettel this and Vettel that. Vettel Never made a mistake and Vettel is the god of racing.

    He even said Hamilton sucked in the wet because he crashed out in Brazil Q1 2017. Ignoring the fact Hamilton has won most of the rain races since 2007.
    Oh really? Guess I'm not surprised. I hope he blames Vettel for his 2018 German GP crash...

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Formula 1 fan View Post
    Why don't you say hello to facts then? You ignore the fact Ferrari has been claimed the best car by a lot of experts all over the world since 2017, yet you blame Ferrari for Vettel's lack of titles in 2017 and 2018.
    Best car of 2017 gets 5 poles and 5 wins out of 20 races.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    We once again agree on drivers ! Remember , Charles is in a Ferrari , Max is in a R Bull making the best of it. I'm not sure about that fastest car in quali. part. Fast yes, fastest? Max's driving made it look that way. Again there's no point in pole pos. It's the race results that add up the points. Lewis has about 85 poles I believe, and he still isn't respected here for his driving. Enjoy the next race !!
    Honestly, you have a much better driver than Max in Ferrari (charles) and you drool over Max. Go see a doctor already.
    "If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by chinmay View Post
    Best car of 2017 gets 5 poles and 5 wins out of 20 races.
    That could be due to Vettel underperforming. Why don't you give some real facts that prove Mercedes was the best car?

    So you admit RBR had the dominant car in 2011? 18 poles and 12 wins? While Mclaren had 1 pole and 6wins? So your whole statement about Mclaren being the best car in 2011 is BS.

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by aroutis View Post
    Honestly, you have a much better driver than Max in Ferrari (charles) and you drool over Max. Go see a doctor already.
    Charles is quite a good driver, probably better then Vettel, but not better then Max. In the cart series Max dominated Charles and right now Max is beating Charles again and RBR is inferior to Ferrari.

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Formula 1 fan View Post
    Charles is quite a good driver, probably better then Vettel, but not better then Max. In the cart series Max dominated Charles and right now Max is beating Charles again and RBR is inferior to Ferrari.
    Says the Dutchman.


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  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by chinmay View Post
    Best car of 2017 gets 5 poles and 5 wins out of 20 races.
    Oh and what about the wins Vettel threw away in Baku( or at least 2nd) and Singapore? He crashed in Mexico as well. Vettel made a lot of mistakes in 2017 and 2018 that it is very possible he isn't getting the maximum out of the car.

    Amus, Schoroboruh,Straw Anderson and a lot of others all have stated that Ferrari was at least as good as Mercedes and probably even better.

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giallo 550 View Post
    Says the Dutchman.
    Yeah, but it still is true.

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Formula 1 fan View Post
    Yeah, but it still is true.
    Sure, if you ignore that it's because he was able to capitalize on Ferrari's strategic and mechanical failures. Look, Max is great and a future champion, but he's not really beating anyone. Everyone is getting worked by Mercedes.


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  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    Oh really? Guess I'm not surprised. I hope he blames Vettel for his 2018 German GP crash...
    Yeah, it was hilarious. He blamed Hamilton for everything last 7 years and when Vettel crashed it was always someone else fault. He claimed Vettel never drove the best car and always won the title with an inferior car.

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giallo 550 View Post
    Sure, if you ignore that it's because he was able to capitalize on Ferrari's strategic and mechanical failures. Look, Max is great and a future champion, but he's not really beating anyone. Everyone is getting worked by Mercedes.
    Max was beating Leclerc and Vettel until Baku. Max was better and faster in Australia and Baku. Lecler was a bit unlucky in China, but Max was Genuinely faster in a big part of the race. Vettel was messing up in Bahrain and Max beat him fair and square.

    Personally I think Max is better then both Vettel and Leclerc. He has shown better speed and race craft and has a unique talent for great overtakes, like Senna had. And in a way like Hamilton had.

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Formula 1 fan View Post
    Max was beating Leclerc and Vettel until Baku. Max was better and faster in Australia and Baku. Lecler was a bit unlucky in China, but Max was Genuinely faster in a big part of the race. Vettel was messing up in Bahrain and Max beat him fair and square.

    Personally I think Max is better then both Vettel and Leclerc. He has shown better speed and race craft and has a unique talent for great overtakes, like Senna had. And in a way like Hamilton had.
    I stand by my points. Leclerc would have won in Bahrain had his injector not went, and that alone would have out him over Vettel and Verstappen. Results are what matter.

    Max has an inferior car and is extracting the most out of it, while this is just Leclerc's fifth race with Ferrari. Let's hold off on who's better than who and talk again 15 years from now.


    Disappointed Since 2010

  16. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giallo 550 View Post
    I stand by my points. Leclerc would have won in Bahrain had his injector not went, and that alone would have out him over Vettel and Verstappen. Results are what matter.

    Max has an inferior car and is extracting the most out of it, while this is just Leclerc's fifth race with Ferrari. Let's hold off on who's better than who and talk again 15 years from now.
    That is true, Leclerc would probably have won Bahrain and you are right, results are what matter. That is why I believe Max beat Dan since 2017 despite not scoring more points then Dan in 2017.
    But Max beat Leclerc 3 out of 4 races. You can argue Ferrari screwed up China, but Max showed speed to be up to Leclercs pace.

    You have a point, but Max has showed extraordinary results and races since 2015 and has beaten Vettel, Lewis, Dan, Bottas and Kimi head on a lot of races. Only Hamilton is a bit better, but he has the better car as well.

  17. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Formula 1 fan View Post
    Yeah, it was hilarious. He blamed Hamilton for everything last 7 years and when Vettel crashed it was always someone else fault. He claimed Vettel never drove the best car and always won the title with an inferior car.
    Haha, typical Folky. Prove that I said Vettel never drove the best car. Or will you run again like you always do? It was you who always blamed someone else for Hamilton's fault.

    Like Hamilton took out Rosberg in Spain 2016 in the first 3 corners and you won't blame Hamilton for it but you would jump to blame Vettel if he was involved in any incident at the start and would say Vettel should have waited and race isn't won in 1 lap. Same applies to Hamilton but you wouldn't blame him.

    How conveniently you would say Rosberg won 2016 title due to Hamilton's issues while completely ignoring the terrible performances he made that year quite often along with extremely poor starts, the points lost due to which were worth more than the issues he faced.

    How you will keep on repeating Hamilton lost 2012 due to reliability while ignoring the fact that McLaren had 4 race ending failures, Red Bull had 3.

    Vettel made a few mistakes last year, now list the mistakes Hamilton made. I bet you would say he made none in the last 7 years. No wonder, your main account on PF1 is banned because you talked nonsense there as well.

  18. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by chinmay View Post
    Haha, typical Folky. Prove that I said Vettel never drove the best car. Or will you run again like you always do? It was you who always blamed someone else for Hamilton's fault.

    Like Hamilton took out Rosberg in Spain 2016 in the first 3 corners and you won't blame Hamilton for it but you would jump to blame Vettel if he was involved in any incident at the start and would say Vettel should have waited and race isn't won in 1 lap. Same applies to Hamilton but you wouldn't blame him.

    How conveniently you would say Rosberg won 2016 title due to Hamilton's issues while completely ignoring the terrible performances he made that year quite often along with extremely poor starts, the points lost due to which were worth more than the issues he faced.

    How you will keep on repeating Hamilton lost 2012 due to reliability while ignoring the fact that McLaren had 4 race ending failures, Red Bull had 3.

    Vettel made a few mistakes last year, now list the mistakes Hamilton made. I bet you would say he made none in the last 7 years. No wonder, your main account on PF1 is banned because you talked nonsense there as well.
    I never run, that is you buddy. I have refuted your claims about Rosberg beating Hamilton and Mclaren being the better car in 2011/2012 and Mercedes being better in 2017 & 2018. You stil have not responded about the errors Vettel made in 2017 and 2018.

    Maybe I exaggerated about you saying Vettel never drove the best car, but accoring to you which car was the best car between 2007-2018?


    You are wrong though, I have blamed Hamilton a lot. Barcalona is not one of them. I have blamed Hamilton for his incidents in 2011 or Monza 2010.

    You again say Hamilton performed terribly, but you ignore all the issues he had. He had 2 or 3 bad races, but his season was not terrible. He lost more points due to issues then bad performances.

    Hamilton retired from the lead 2 times due to reliability. Singapore and Abu Dhabi. Lost his pole because Mclaren messed up his qualify by underfueling. RBR was the better car and Mclaren threw away Hamiltons title.

    I never talk nonsense, that is again you.
    Hamilton's Mistake's.
    2007: none
    2008: Japan, outbreaking himself in the first corner. Canada, crashing out in to Kimi.
    2009: Monaco crashing out in Q1. Monza, Crashing out in P3.
    2010: Crashing out in Monza.
    2011: Half of the incidents with Massa were his fault. So that was about 6 orso.
    2012: None
    2013: Can't remember
    2014: none
    2015: Hungary.
    2016: Spain was partly Hamilton's fault, but it was mostly Rosbergs fault.
    2017: None
    2018: Bahrain, he should have yielded.
    2019: None

    No can you say Vettels fault?

    It was banned, but not because what you think. And where is your account? Banned as well? Or why did you leave there? Because most people proved you wrong and you had no clue what you talked about?

  19. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Formula 1 fan View Post
    Charles is quite a good driver, probably better then Vettel, but not better then Max. In the cart series Max dominated Charles and right now Max is beating Charles again and RBR is inferior to Ferrari.
    Only reason that Max is beating Charles is pathetic strategy and what happened in race #2.
    "If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve

  20. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Formula 1 fan View Post

    I never talk nonsense, that is again you.
    Hamilton's Mistake's.
    2007: none
    2008: Japan, outbreaking himself in the first corner. Canada, crashing out in to Kimi.
    2009: Monaco crashing out in Q1. Monza, Crashing out in P3.
    2010: Crashing out in Monza.
    2011: Half of the incidents with Massa were his fault. So that was about 6 orso.
    2012: None
    2013: Can't remember
    2014: none
    2015: Hungary.
    2016: Spain was partly Hamilton's fault, but it was mostly Rosbergs fault.
    2017: None
    2018: Bahrain, he should have yielded.
    2019: None

    ?
    Serious?

    2007: China crash into the pits, Brasil major mistake at the third corner, losing 6 places while trying to overtake Alonso.
    2010: Major slide in Korea, lost a place, Crashes into Webber in Australia 2010, and some more. Singapore crash with Webber, lost many points.
    2011: At least 5 clumpsy driving errors, at least.
    2012: Brasil 2012, 50-50%, a little bit Hulkenbergs foult. Valencia 2012, didnt leave Maldonado any space.
    2014: Hockenheim qualy goes into barrier
    2016: Baku 2016, crash in qualy
    2017: Brasil qualy, crash and out
    Thats about it, feel free to add some more if needed. Nobody is perfect.

  21. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by aroutis View Post
    Only reason that Max is beating Charles is pathetic strategy and what happened in race #2.
    Not entirely, Max did beat Leclerc in 2 races fair and square, In China Leclerc was not much faster either.
    And the only reason Leclerc Should be ahead is because Ferrari is the better car.

  22. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vettel165 View Post
    Serious?

    2007: China crash into the pits, Brasil major mistake at the third corner, losing 6 places while trying to overtake Alonso.
    2010: Major slide in Korea, lost a place, Crashes into Webber in Australia 2010, and some more. Singapore crash with Webber, lost many points.
    2011: At least 5 clumpsy driving errors, at least.
    2012: Brasil 2012, 50-50%, a little bit Hulkenbergs foult. Valencia 2012, didnt leave Maldonado any space.
    2014: Hockenheim qualy goes into barrier
    2016: Baku 2016, crash in qualy
    2017: Brasil qualy, crash and out
    Thats about it, feel free to add some more if needed. Nobody is perfect.
    2007: China. That crash was mostly because Mclaren refused Hamilton to pit, even Bridgestone were left stunned why Mclaren left him out. The wheel rhim was coming through the tyres.
    Just look at the tyres. Maybe he should have been a little bit more careful, but he did everything right. It was 99,99% Mclarens fault. Brazil, fair enough Mistake from Hamilton. But a small one.
    2010: Singapore and Australia were on Webber. Name the "some more" incidents.
    2012: Seriously? it is 100% Hulkenbergs Fault. He overtook Hamilton and HAmilton left space, then Hulk lost the rear and took out Hamilton. What should Hamilton have done?
    Valencia was 100% Maldonado's fault again. Maldonado left the track and should have yielded, he tried to overtake Hamilton by cutting the chicane.
    2014: The breaks failed, not Hamilton's fault.
    2016: Ahh yes, forgot that 1. Hamilton's fault indeed.
    2017: True, crash cost him a pole and maybe a win. But he already won the title.

    I have removed some, because they were not Hamilton's faults.
    Now can you name the crashes Vettel was to blame for?

  23. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Formula 1 fan View Post
    Not entirely, Max did beat Leclerc in 2 races fair and square, In China Leclerc was not much faster either.
    And the only reason Leclerc Should be ahead is because Ferrari is the better car.
    So you got banned from another f1 forum and come here to follow some guy on the internet to argue with him? Is that about right?

    Always suspected you were a troll.
    Forza Ferrari

  24. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    So you got banned from another f1 forum and come here to follow some guy on the internet to argue with him? Is that about right?

    Always suspected you were a troll.
    Nope, that is far from being right. I am here to debate F1. I have asked you before, point out to me where I troll. You have been very quite about that part. Just because I post my opinion about Vettel backed by facts, doesn't make me a troll.

    You are just a blind Vettel fanboy who can't accept other opinions about Vettel. Try and point out where I have been trolling and where I have been wrong about Vettel.

  25. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Formula 1 fan View Post
    Nope, that is far from being right. I am here to debate F1. I have asked you before, point out to me where I troll. You have been very quite about that part. Just because I post my opinion about Vettel backed by facts, doesn't make me a troll.

    You are just a blind Vettel fanboy who can't accept other opinions about Vettel. Try and point out where I have been trolling and where I have been wrong about Vettel.
    Uhm, Greig is not a Vettel fanboy. I remember him saying he thought we might have replaced the wrong driver at the end of last year, and he is far from a Raikkonen fan too.


    Disappointed Since 2010

  26. #176
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    And by the way, the majority of the incidents in 2011 between Hamilton and Massa were Hamilton's fault, with Monaco being the dumbest of them.


    Disappointed Since 2010

  27. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giallo 550 View Post
    Uhm, Greig is not a Vettel fanboy. I remember him saying he thought we might have replaced the wrong driver at the end of last year, and he is far from a Raikkonen fan too.
    Well, he definitely doesn't allow any negative but accurate comments about Vettel. He called me a troll because I said Vettel was not as good as Hamilton or Max and based on the results last 2 years, Vettel is lacking.

    And yes, a lot of the incidents between Massa and Hamilton were on Hamilton. But mostly it was 50-50. Hamilton was in a bad place that year.

  28. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Formula 1 fan View Post
    Well, he definitely doesn't allow any negative but accurate comments about Vettel. He called me a troll because I said Vettel was not as good as Hamilton or Max and based on the results last 2 years, Vettel is lacking.

    And yes, a lot of the incidents between Massa and Hamilton were on Hamilton. But mostly it was 50-50. Hamilton was in a bad place that year.
    I think you will find that Greg is a Ferrari fan and supports all who drive for the team.

    As for the Massa/Hamilton debacle in 2011 I think you will find that most of it was caused by Hamilton.
    Your excuse he was in a bad place.............I doubt that Felipe saw it that way.


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  29. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by racingbradley View Post
    I think you will find that Greg is a Ferrari fan and supports all who drive for the team.

    As for the Massa/Hamilton debacle in 2011 I think you will find that most of it was caused by Hamilton.
    Your excuse he was in a bad place.............I doubt that Felipe saw it that way.
    That is fair enough, but I never said anything that wasn't true about Vettel and yet I was branded hater by him. Or a troll. I am a huge Kimi fan and supported Ferrari in 2007-2009. And from 2014-2018 when Kimi drove there again.

    To be fair, a lot of incidents were just racing incidents and some where Massa's fault and some where Hamilton's fault. I wasn't saying it was a good excuse, but it was the reason why Hamilton was worse then he normally is.

    Vettel has had as many incidents in 2017&2018 as Hamilton did in 2011, but Vettel was to blame in most of the incidents.

  30. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giallo 550 View Post
    Uhm, Greig is not a Vettel fanboy. I remember him saying he thought we might have replaced the wrong driver at the end of last year, and he is far from a Raikkonen fan too.
    On drivers Perspective he’s ham fan & as a team it’s ferrari
    Correct me if I’m wrong.
    "I've always believed that you should never, ever give up and you should always keep fighting even when there's only a slightest chance " : - Michael Schumacher

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