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Thread: Vettel or Leclerc

  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by chinmay View Post
    First you need to ask Max to learn some qualifying skills from Seb. Had 4 years to become the youngest ever pole sitter and beat Seb's record but failed every single time despite having fastest car in qualifying on multiple occasions last of which came in Mexico 2018 when his teammate Danny Ric stole pole from him at the very last moment. Unless you are happy with his 5 wins all his 21 years life of course.
    But Max destroyed Riccardo in Race. Verstappen is also youngest Gp winner. Do you remember 2014 how bad Sebastian looks against Riccardo.

  2. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noquarter View Post
    But Max destroyed Riccardo in Race. Verstappen is also youngest Gp winner. Do you remember 2014 how bad Sebastian looks against Riccardo.
    ultimately Max initial year with RB against DR scored less pts.
    Max when in TR, got outscored by sainz & KVYAT (if i'm not wrong).
    "I've always believed that you should never, ever give up and you should always keep fighting even when there's only a slightest chance " : - Michael Schumacher

  3. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noquarter View Post
    But Max destroyed Riccardo in Race. Verstappen is also youngest Gp winner. Do you remember 2014 how bad Sebastian looks against Riccardo.
    There is hardly anyone who thinks that Ricciardo is a better driver than Seb. Horner and Marko themselves don't rate Ricciardo much. In 2015, everyone in the paddock was asked to put their dream team consisting of best 2 drivers of all time along with best team principal and best car. They could pick any car from any team, any team principal and any driver in history. The pairing chosen by Helmut Marko was Ayrton Senna and Sebastian Vettel. The pairing chosen by Christian Horner was Nigel Mansell and Sebastian Vettel. As you can see, Red Bull themselves don't believe Ricciardo was any close to Seb let alone better. Franz Tost, team principal of Toro Rosso said the best driver they ever had was Vettel and he put Ricciardo last on the list. Now these are the guys who have worked with both Ric and Vet.

  4. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by chinmay View Post
    There is hardly anyone who thinks that Ricciardo is a better driver than Seb. Horner and Marko themselves don't rate Ricciardo much. In 2015, everyone in the paddock was asked to put their dream team consisting of best 2 drivers of all time along with best team principal and best car. They could pick any car from any team, any team principal and any driver in history. The pairing chosen by Helmut Marko was Ayrton Senna and Sebastian Vettel. The pairing chosen by Christian Horner was Nigel Mansell and Sebastian Vettel. As you can see, Red Bull themselves don't believe Ricciardo was any close to Seb let alone better. Franz Tost, team principal of Toro Rosso said the best driver they ever had was Vettel and he put Ricciardo last on the list. Now these are the guys who have worked with both Ric and Vet.
    Romours were Seb had a performance clause that year, something about if he finished better than third in WDC he couldnt join other team and in this case Ferrari. RBR is usually treating their leaving drivers very bad, have amazing engine blowups, never saw so many mechanical issues on that car which Seb had that year, Australia, Monaco, Austria,Spain and many issues that accured. If Seb was driving at its best, he would easily have Ricciardo in the pocket.

    In the meantime, Danil Kvyat is better than Ricci because he beat him fair and squar in one year. All hail our new king Danil a future WDC in the making.

    https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/24182/9502143

  5. #215
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    Vettlel is a driver like Alberto Ascari once. When the car is fast and has competitors behind it is unstoppable. But when he is under pressure, he will make horrible mistakes. And it loses motivation.

  6. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    ultimately Max initial year with RB against DR scored less pts.
    Max when in TR, got outscored by sainz & KVYAT (if i'm not wrong).
    That's a great way of looking at Max for sure. His initial year against DR compared with the final years, Max's great driving is what got DR to tale a walk! Who would you rather see in red, DR or Max now? Also the TR days compared to now days! Unfortunately in Sebs case he's in reverse so far. From RB 4 WDCs to missing podiums to Max no less.

  7. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    That's a great way of looking at Max for sure. His initial year against DR compared with the final years, Max's great driving is what got DR to tale a walk! Who would you rather see in red, DR or Max now? Also the TR days compared to now days! Unfortunately in Sebs case he's in reverse so far. From RB 4 WDCs to missing podiums to Max no less.
    max 2 podium finishes to Vettel 1. Season is not over. There are long races ahead.
    "I've always believed that you should never, ever give up and you should always keep fighting even when there's only a slightest chance " : - Michael Schumacher

  8. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    max 2 podium finishes to Vettel 1. Season is not over. There are long races ahead.
    And Seb has Max By 1 PT. in the driver standings. As you say; the season is far from over! The Seb , Charles combo driving Ferraris for sure will not let R Bull get ahead of them.

  9. #219
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    Honestly, the Vettel-Leclerc-Verstappen rivalry is the only thing that's going to keep me watching this season. If our drivers get a win or podium, it's sauce (not gravy).
    Last edited by Giallo 550; 17th May 2019 at 11:48.


    Disappointed Since 2010

  10. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    the season is far from over! The Seb , Charles combo driving Ferraris for sure will not let R Bull get ahead of them.
    I'll drink to that. And my heart says maybe we will catch Merc boys yet.


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  11. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by chinmay View Post
    There is hardly anyone who thinks that Ricciardo is a better driver than Seb. Horner and Marko themselves don't rate Ricciardo much. In 2015, everyone in the paddock was asked to put their dream team consisting of best 2 drivers of all time along with best team principal and best car. They could pick any car from any team, any team principal and any driver in history. The pairing chosen by Helmut Marko was Ayrton Senna and Sebastian Vettel. The pairing chosen by Christian Horner was Nigel Mansell and Sebastian Vettel. As you can see, Red Bull themselves don't believe Ricciardo was any close to Seb let alone better. Franz Tost, team principal of Toro Rosso said the best driver they ever had was Vettel and he put Ricciardo last on the list. Now these are the guys who have worked with both Ric and Vet.

    They might want to watch the races. Vettel makes more errors in a season than Ricciardo has in his career.

  12. #222
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    O K ! So will that former Seb please come back ! Where are you? Ferrari needs you; now!!!!

  13. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Infi24r View Post
    They might want to watch the races. Vettel makes more errors in a season than Ricciardo has in his career.
    Ricciardo is a B grade driver, he is not too quick and not title worthy. Besides his mistake almost cost Vettel world title in Abu Dhabi 2012 when he started weaving erratically behind safety car and cost Vettel part of his front wing. Ricciardo = Bottas = Rosberg = Hulkenberg = Perez these are B grade drivers. Seb, Max, Charles, Lewis form the A grade.

  14. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Singer View Post
    LEC is, it appears, clearly NOT the son of God!
    But hey, Sebastian is past it and Charles is the main man. Pfft! #GoSeb!
    We're doomed, Cap'n Mainwaring, doomed I tell ye!

  15. #225
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    Last April I asked who's the number one driver in Ferrari. Today we have a clear answer. With two consecutive wins and a man full of energy giving all his heart for winning the race.

  16. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by chinmay View Post
    Ricciardo is a B grade driver, he is not too quick and not title worthy. Besides his mistake almost cost Vettel world title in Abu Dhabi 2012 when he started weaving erratically behind safety car and cost Vettel part of his front wing. Ricciardo = Bottas = Rosberg = Hulkenberg = Perez these are B grade drivers. Seb, Max, Charles, Lewis form the A grade.
    lol sebastian. I remember that day, it dawned on me that if this guy wasn't given a rocket ship he would never be able to drive through the field without incident.

  17. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by chinmay View Post
    Ricciardo is a B grade driver, he is not too quick and not title worthy. Besides his mistake almost cost Vettel world title in Abu Dhabi 2012 when he started weaving erratically behind safety car and cost Vettel part of his front wing. Ricciardo = Bottas = Rosberg = Hulkenberg = Perez these are B grade drivers. Seb, Max, Charles, Lewis form the A grade.
    Except he was substantial faster than Vettel. Or do we forget that.

    Ricciardo would be a huge upgrade on Vettel. Equal if not greater pace and far fewer errors.

  18. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by Infi24r View Post
    Except he was substantial faster than Vettel. Or do we forget that.

    Ricciardo would be a huge upgrade on Vettel. Equal if not greater pace and far fewer errors.
    ...NOT to mention, A LOT LESS MONEY......ha, ha....

    Seb is just an overrated driver......put him an so, so car and does nothing......
    ...the new SF90 in the MATTE RED, to me it looks amazing. Let's hope it's gonna be as FAST as it looks.


  19. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by lzammit View Post
    Last April I asked who's the number one driver in Ferrari. Today we have a clear answer. With two consecutive wins and a man full of energy giving all his heart for winning the race.
    salaries:
    Seb 45 000 000 USD
    Lec 3 500 000 USD
    Who is No.1?

  20. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Infi24r View Post
    Except he was substantial faster than Vettel. Or do we forget that.

    Ricciardo would be a huge upgrade on Vettel. Equal if not greater pace and far fewer errors.
    Ricciardo needs to be an upgrade on or as good as Lewis and Max before Ferrari considers who will replace Seb in the future. Michael knew Seb's ex rocket is what got him those 4 WDCs. He did what he had to and got Seb, his home boy the Ferrari seat and that salary. Less for Merc to worry about while Michael got that team on top as it still stands.

  21. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by bonzo View Post
    salaries:
    Seb 45 000 000 USD
    Lec 3 500 000 USD
    Who is No.1?
    Albeit I can see the point you try to make, at this point and especially after Monza, Charles is the indisputable #1.
    Should the team try anything to hamper his efforts, you shall witness the wrath from the italian press and believe me the team does not need this at this point.
    "If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve

  22. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    Ricciardo needs to be an upgrade on or as good as Lewis and Max before Ferrari considers who will replace Seb in the future. Michael knew Seb's ex rocket is what got him those 4 WDCs. He did what he had to and got Seb, his home boy the Ferrari seat and that salary. Less for Merc to worry about while Michael got that team on top as it still stands.
    Michael was in a vegetative state when Seb signed for Ferrari, so that clearly is nonsense. We have no idea whether Michael to this day even knows that Formula One is, let alone that his mate drives his former red car, let alone whether he knows what the colour red is. We have absolutely no clue. Also, any Tifoso should love Michael to bits for what he gave to us during eleven years of flawless competitiveness.

    Besides, in the autumn of 2013, no team, period would've turned down signing Vettel on a long-term contract regardless. I'm still glad we got him even though I think letting Alonso go was silly - at least he was the best possible replacement at that time and gave us some stunning performances. If he is to have any sustained Ferrari future he needs to get it together and take a gigantic paycut, but make no mistake: had Bottas or Kimi been in his car this year - they'd done a lot worse than what Seb has. Make no mistake about that. He's still one of the five fastest drivers on the planet together with Charles, Max, Hammy and Ricciardo. He just needs his head straight and learn to drive to within the limits of his car even when frustrated. He may come out on the other side as F1's fourth wheel and then we can have two drivers capable of winning races for the first time since the Kimi/Massa, dominant F2008 days, where they unbelievably let a certain title go through sheer incompetence. Kimi gave us a hard-fought title in 2007, but anyone thinking Alonso wouldn't have walked those two years with three races to spare, is deluding themselves.

    Having Seb win the title for Ferrari looks like a pipe dream at this point in time, but that is just because:

    a) We haven't had dominant cars for a while.
    b) Charles Leclerc

    Besides that, he's clearly good enough to win the WDC. He's basically Hammy in raw talent without the racecraft. Still, even Hammy melts down when he's not leading nowadays.

  23. #233
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    Personally, I think Ferrari should retain Vettel, but do away with the number 1/number 2 dynamic until it is truly earned. When the de facto number 2 from the beginning the season becomes the number 1 immediately after the summer break, there's a problem. Let them both chase their driver's championship while remembering that the team ALWAYS comes first. If one driver is chasing the other down, they should only be allowed to pass cleanly on the straight.


    Disappointed Since 2010

  24. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giallo 550 View Post
    Personally, I think Ferrari should retain Vettel, but do away with the number 1/number 2 dynamic until it is truly earned. When the de facto number 2 from the beginning the season becomes the number 1 immediately after the summer break, there's a problem. Let them both chase their driver's championship while remembering that the team ALWAYS comes first. If one driver is chasing the other down, they should only be allowed to pass cleanly on the straight.
    Amen to that, we're all a bit tired of the driver status argument, even Seb would have to admit that judging by his recent exploits, Charles has the momentum and should be given equal status forthwith.

  25. #235
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    The 40-50 odd millions being payed to Vettel should be spent on better things, e.g-windtunnel correlation, CFD's, improved 3D painted car parts etc. Paying that much money to someone who hasn't even managed to challenge for the championship in any meaningful way over the past 5 years is compete waste.

    And I'm very happy that Leclerc won the Italian GP, and also they way the had won. Until Austria, Leclerc was driving a bit more gently, more lenient when battling with others. But battling with Max and losing the victory has finally awakened the old F2 Leclerc. Very aggressive and someone who's not going to be intimidated. Some people may say he was over the edge in Monza, maybe so, but who cares. I hope he continues to drive this way.

  26. #236
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    The fIA do not mind this style of driving it encourages better completion on track and the fans love it.Hell Lewis has done it for years on the edge driving the only difference now Charles is better than Lewis at it.

  27. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by paolo lalli View Post
    The fIA do not mind this style of driving it encourages better completion on track and the fans love it.Hell Lewis has done it for years on the edge driving the only difference now Charles is better than Lewis at it.
    Agree Good post .


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  28. #238
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    remember when Seb was very good in Singapore? he won it 4 times i believe, once with Ferrari. I know this year's car won't be suited to the track, but if he could recapture some of his form for this race it would be nice, get some solid points at least. But who knows? with a SC or two it could be a bit of a lottery. Imagine 3 Ferrari wins in a row

  29. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrarichamp View Post
    remember when Seb was very good in Singapore? he won it 4 times i believe, once with Ferrari. I know this year's car won't be suited to the track, but if he could recapture some of his form for this race it would be nice, get some solid points at least. But who knows? with a SC or two it could be a bit of a lottery. Imagine 3 Ferrari wins in a row
    I was thinking the same. If charles outqualifies seb in Singapore then I would think he's really lost some of his form coz seb loves the Singapore track. Although it looks like it's gonna be damage limitation for Ferrari.

  30. #240
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    Charles took his time to get into the rhythm there last year, but then produced a remarkable Q2 lap. Singapore is the type of track that exaggarates differences in confidence and skill between drivers, so I think Charles has a great chance at outqualifying Bottas for sure if he keeps rolling like this. Seb cracked for Q3 there last year, he sure has potential, could surely outqualify Charles there, but if we'd have one driver shock and put it on the front row it really feels like it ain't him to do it.

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