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Thread: When will this end????

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    Yeah the same thing with Charles in Baku .
    I’ve mentioned clearly it’s vet mistake, but atleast you don’t that have kindness to accept Charles did commit mistakes
    I want to be kind and accept Charles makes mistakes for sure. I'm just comparing him with a 4x WDC , experienced legend of F-1 ! Their about equal so far , just a few less mistakes on Charles' side. Back: who?

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    I want to be kind and accept Charles makes mistakes for sure. I'm just comparing him with a 4x WDC , experienced legend of F-1 ! Their about equal so far , just a few less mistakes on Charles' side. Back: who?
    Again plz don’t give me a laugh with ur posts
    No one In this forum called vettel a legend. You are the first one to term it. Really that is something
    Even vet fanboys too don’t term him legend.

    To be a legend he should win WDC with ferrari against tough opponent that is Currently Ham.
    So there is factor of “to prove himself”.

    This thread gone beyond somewhere to nowhere.
    "I've always believed that you should never, ever give up and you should always keep fighting even when there's only a slightest chance " : - Michael Schumacher

  3. #63
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    Can we have at least one thread that is not about the drivers???
    Forza Ferrari

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    Can we have at least one thread that is not about the drivers???
    Sure I’m trying from my end. But silly posts like team did wantedly to Charles to favour vettel on this track is really ridiculous statement.
    "I've always believed that you should never, ever give up and you should always keep fighting even when there's only a slightest chance " : - Michael Schumacher

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grinsomx View Post
    IMHO we had a good leader in Arrivabene.
    he made mistakes and maybe did not make himself too popular in the media but the team was making progress.

    There is always a better choice but he was the best we have had in years.
    So true, last 2 years it was a fight about WDC and WCC and look us now.
    I do not know if it is true, but I did read somewhere, that Binotto gave ultimatum: Arrivabene goes, or I go.

  6. #66
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    Folks. Its also about the new thinner thread tires. The Mercs LOVED when they introduced them last season. Mercs hade problems with the other tires and Ferrari were good on then. Thats a piece of the pussle clearly, no doubt.
    Michael Schumacher - "I dont give gifts on track.”

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lesky View Post
    Folks. Its also about the new thinner thread tires. The Mercs LOVED when they introduced them last season. Mercs hade problems with the other tires and Ferrari were good on then. Thats a piece of the pussle clearly, no doubt.
    Absolutely agree with you. Ferrari aren’t able to get on with these tyres, not able to extract everything from tyres with current car design philosophy.
    "I've always believed that you should never, ever give up and you should always keep fighting even when there's only a slightest chance " : - Michael Schumacher

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lesky View Post
    Folks. Its also about the new thinner thread tires. The Mercs LOVED when they introduced them last season. Mercs hade problems with the other tires and Ferrari were good on then. Thats a piece of the pussle clearly, no doubt.
    We liked the thinner tyres as well last year though.....can't blame that for a team that does not know what strategy each driver is on...
    Forza Ferrari

  9. #69
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    Binotto: "I am not looking for an excuse for our performance so far. But it is a fact that the difficulties of the 2nd half of 2018 have influenced the start of this season. Today's car was created back then, just as we are already working for the 2020 car atm."

    The team also felt the absence of Ferrari and Fiat boss Marchionne.

    Binotto: "He was a leader and a motivator. He had a strong influence from a strategic and political point of view. He put a lot of trust in me. You don't replace a person like that in a few days."

    Binotto: "There are margins to improve the car, even if you can't change a project in a few weeks. We will fight race after race."


    A really great interview with Ferrari team principal Mattia Binotto and "Die Welt"!

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D7exd3XWwAASHdQ.jpg

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D7exd3VX4AMM4QJ.jpg

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D7exd3WXkAIcX6E.jpg

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D7exd3XX4AAdHr_.jpg


    Mattia Binotto about Sebastian Vettel vs Charles Leclerc, his analysis why Leclerc was faster in some races and about the team order

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D7eynVNWkAAju-D.jpg



    I recognize parallels at the time around 1995, 1996. That was before Ferrari became so successful. We also had to go through a learning and development process. Just like today.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D7ezzR7XkAAl_cg.jpg
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Binotto: "I am not looking for an excuse for our performance so far. But it is a fact that the difficulties of the 2nd half of 2018 have influenced the start of this season. Today's car was created back then, just as we are already working for the 2020 car atm."

    The team also felt the absence of Ferrari and Fiat boss Marchionne.

    Binotto: "He was a leader and a motivator. He had a strong influence from a strategic and political point of view. He put a lot of trust in me. You don't replace a person like that in a few days."

    Binotto: "There are margins to improve the car, even if you can't change a project in a few weeks. We will fight race after race."


    A really great interview with Ferrari team principal Mattia Binotto and "Die Welt"!

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D7exd3XWwAASHdQ.jpg

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D7exd3VX4AMM4QJ.jpg

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D7exd3WXkAIcX6E.jpg

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D7exd3XX4AAdHr_.jpg


    Mattia Binotto about Sebastian Vettel vs Charles Leclerc, his analysis why Leclerc was faster in some races and about the team order

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D7eynVNWkAAju-D.jpg



    I recognize parallels at the time around 1995, 1996. That was before Ferrari became so successful. We also had to go through a learning and development process. Just like today.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D7ezzR7XkAAl_cg.jpg
    Some part of his statement seems to be true.
    "I've always believed that you should never, ever give up and you should always keep fighting even when there's only a slightest chance " : - Michael Schumacher

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimiBot View Post
    So true, last 2 years it was a fight about WDC and WCC and look us now.
    I do not know if it is true, but I did read somewhere, that Binotto gave ultimatum: Arrivabene goes, or I go.
    That's when Arrivabene "stymied" development in the second half of 2018. Remember "upgrades" were really "downgrades"??? Per the interview post #69:

    "But it is a fact that the difficulties of the 2nd half of 2018 have influenced the start of this season. Today's car was created back then......"


    I keep saying, this 2019 was developed in the Arrivabene era. 2020 will be "Binotto's" car.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    That's when Arrivabene "stymied" development in the second half of 2018. Remember "upgrades" were really "downgrades"??? Per the interview post #69:

    "But it is a fact that the difficulties of the 2nd half of 2018 have influenced the start of this season. Today's car was created back then......"


    I keep saying, this 2019 was developed in the Arrivabene era. 2020 will be "Binotto's" car.
    Ohhh... I got his point now.
    This is what internal politics creating lot of troubles with car development too.
    "I've always believed that you should never, ever give up and you should always keep fighting even when there's only a slightest chance " : - Michael Schumacher

  13. #73
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    Team was changing direction under Marchionne leadership. Since he passed away we're a mess.

    Binotto is a great engineer, but a terrible TP so far.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    Ohhh... I got his point now.
    This is what internal politics creating lot of troubles with car development too.
    Correct. Car development usually takes a year and half. So this 2019 car is really Arrivabene's car.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp View Post

    Binotto is a great engineer, but a terrible TP so far.
    Again, people in place from Arrivabene era. Binotto has to move people around or fire them. Give him time to sort people out and make the correct moves.....which he is doing as we speak.

    2019 is a "correction" year for Ferrari F1. We're gonna have to take this one in the chin......yes, like other years but Binotto is more technical than the other 2 we've had in this hybrid formula.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp View Post
    Team was changing direction under Marchionne leadership. Since he passed away we're a mess.
    Perhaps he steered the team into wrong direction and the current situation is result of just that ie. unnecessary CEO interference and micromanagement.
    "Leave the gun. Take the cannoli."

  17. #77
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    The only real truth Binotto said in that Die Welt interview was about the fact that everything in F1 is in constant change/flux.

    "Yes, exactly. The current picture after five races is just part of a dynamic process that will continue to unfold this season. The only question is in whose favour and in witch direction". - Binotto
    Most likely in Mercs direction even if the SF90 should be really strong on some circuits. But the gap in terms of points is basicly impossible to close without a few Merc DNFs and with perfect reliability of the SF90 from now on. The rest of what Binotto said is just beating around the bush.

  18. #78
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    Shambles, we’re in shambles. People who were working for us suddenly go to other teams and start to deliver, also people delivering in other teams, come to Ferrari and become dormant. Clearly the team culture is not right, there’s something where we can’t extract best of the talent. I believe all the culture comes from top, we need a ruthless leader. I don’t know where we’ll find one but if it means getting Horner or Flávio at any cost then so be it. Our problem is deeper than having a crook run our team and get us out of this jail
    “I prefer to beat them on Sunday” -Fernando Alonso, Press Conference Korean GP 2010

    "Giornata fantastica !!"- Andrea Stella, European GP 2012


  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Harley View Post
    Perhaps he steered the team into wrong direction and the current situation is result of just that ie. unnecessary CEO interference and micromanagement.

    Good point. Something definitely to be debated given the other 2 team principles and there relationship with PMI. Binotto might change that "ethos".
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Binotto: "I am not looking for an excuse for our performance so far. But it is a fact that the difficulties of the 2nd half of 2018 have influenced the start of this season. Today's car was created back then, just as we are already working for the 2020 car atm."
    I am not looking for excuse...but

    So he blames Arrivabene for these stupid mistakes what they do every race weekend.

  21. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    Team is clueless and is heading in no direction....what will it take for Ferrari to hire a Wolf or Horner etc? Promoting from within is clearly not working since Todt left yet we seem unwilling to look outside of the team for some sort of direction and actual leadership.
    Mate, no idea. Its gone form ok last year, too, the hell is going on. As you and few here know, f1 isn't my main focus. I can take it or leave it now. Will watch race if home. I still follow of course. We wasting Charles completely. He amazing talent, for sure fast, consistent and future wdc, and if not careful, it will not be with us.

    Now, there's most probably 3 reasons why we in this state. First, of course mercs, sheer domination of this era of hybrid. Hats off to them, massive respect for what have achieved

    Now that leads secondly to maybe next reason, maybe fia and now liberty so reluctant to push for changes because the Merc marketing machine is so big and is good for the sport, which let's face it, it isn't. I'm sure if Ferrari had this much success, again, in these years, there would be hell of a push and media and fan pressure to change the rules to stop us winning. But there seem to be nothing like that now for merc. But fia and liberty blind to what this has done for the sport over the past years.

    Now, Ferrari? Yes we took the fight to merc last year, just. But this year, we'll, we know how that's going. The sad thing is, we changed the car concept this year to try to close and even make step ahead of Merc, but that hasn't worked. Hats off to the for trying. Had to try something. For some reason, Ferrari way to reluctant to hire from outside now. It's a shame, we need massive shake up of the whole management and design team, philosophy. As proven, not working. So sad to see and watch. Especially watching Seb and Charles driving to the max and not getting results. He'll even the pit wall needs good kick up the you know what, stop looking at the numbers and be able to make quick reaction calls.

    Seen Ferrari through the 80s earlty 90s, don't want see that again, but we getting close to that.

    I'm lucky, as I can take f1 or leave it now. As got my passion in sports cars and gt racing now. But as said. This state at Scuderia Ferrari, is making me sad and ****** off.
    CAVALLINO RAMPANTE PER SEMPRE

  22. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    Team is clueless and is heading in no direction....what will it take for Ferrari to hire a Wolf or Horner etc? Promoting from within is clearly not working since Todt left yet we seem unwilling to look outside of the team for some sort of direction and actual leadership.
    I'm surprised to see you say this. I have been saying the same for a while now.

    It seems obvious to me, using the results of the last decade as evidence, that having an Italian lead the team will not bring success. I haven't lived in Italy so I don't know why this is and maybe it's just a cursory observation but that is how it seems. I said the problem with the team is coultural and until they realize that, there is no hope for Ferrari.
    Liberty-Guns-Beer-Trump... & Ferrari.

  23. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimiBot View Post
    I am not looking for excuse...but

    So he blames Arrivabene for these stupid mistakes what they do every race weekend.
    Binotto is relying on people to make calls. Yes, ultimately he's responsible but he will sort these people out or get rid of them. Jock Clear is one of those people.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  24. #84
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    It`s like they have 2 teams inside 1 team and they do not communicate. I don`t know, but it looks like so.

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    One of the ingredient of Ferrari's successes during Todt-Brawn-Schumacher era was the absence of LDM. Jean Todt and Ross Brawn kept LDM away from team operations, which kept non-sense political stuffs at bay.

    Now first of all, I don't want to lose Binotto to Mercedes or any other team, he is a brilliant engineer and should stay as our TD. But I do believe Ferrari needs someone from outside, someone who can protect this team from "Spaghetti" culture.

  26. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Binotto is relying on people to make calls. Yes, ultimately he's responsible but he will sort these people out or get rid of them. Jock Clear is one of those people.
    If you look at Mr Clear's CV he has been around for a while - and with some success, too. Could it be that it is not so simple that he is the one making the wrong calls or is there a bigger picture in this? I cannot say I have been admiring Ferrari's strategies before Mr Clear's time either.
    "Leave the gun. Take the cannoli."

  27. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by WS6TransAm01 View Post
    I'm surprised to see you say this. I have been saying the same for a while now.

    It seems obvious to me, using the results of the last decade as evidence, that having an Italian lead the team will not bring success. I haven't lived in Italy so I don't know why this is and maybe it's just a cursory observation but that is how it seems. I said the problem with the team is coultural and until they realize that, there is no hope for Ferrari.
    Italy is a beautiful country to visit along with the people and food.

    That being said to live there is obviously different to an outsider, especially in F1. First off, the language in F1 culture is English. Italy's currency is unstable. Moving a family to Italy also brings marital and child pressures as well along with no one speaks Italian. Plus Ferrari F1 wants to be Italian.

    Long-term fix to Ferrari F1---> move to Great Britain. HAAS & Honda have done it and those facilities do not have an all American workforce or an all Japanese work force in those British facilities.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  28. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    One of the ingredient of Ferrari's successes during Todt-Brawn-Schumacher era was the absence of LDM. Jean Todt and Ross Brawn kept LDM away from team operations, which kept non-sense political stuffs at bay.

    Now first of all, I don't want to lose Binotto to Mercedes or any other team, he is a brilliant engineer and should stay as our TD. But I do believe Ferrari needs someone from outside, someone who can protect this team from "Spaghetti" culture.
    Totally agree... good post
    "I've always believed that you should never, ever give up and you should always keep fighting even when there's only a slightest chance " : - Michael Schumacher

  29. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Harley View Post
    If you look at Mr Clear's CV he has been around for a while - and with some success, too. Could it be that it is not so simple that he is the one making the wrong calls or is there a bigger picture in this? I cannot say I have been admiring Ferrari's strategies before Mr Clear's time either.
    Jock has all the tools(technology) to make strat calls along with people under him. It's mind-boggling to me really.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  30. #90
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    If the windtunnel results etc. do not correlate with reality perhaps those startegy tools leave room for improvement as well. Just speculating, though.
    "Leave the gun. Take the cannoli."

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