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Thread: Leclercs relationship with the Scuderia is close to breaking point / Italian Media

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    Exclamation Leclercs relationship with the Scuderia is close to breaking point / Italian Media

    Six races into his Ferrari career and Charles Leclerc’s relationship with the Scuderia is “close to breaking point” according to a report in the Italian media.

    Leclerc’s first season with Ferrari has been undone on two sides, team orders and errors.

    While the former has seen the Monegasque driver firmly put in his place as Ferrari’s number two on several occasions, the latter has also cost him points.

    The latest mistake from Ferrari came in qualifying for Leclerc’s home race, the Monaco Grand Prix.

    The Scuderia left him in the pits in Q1 believing his time was good enough to progress. It wasn’t, and he was knocked out of qualifying by team-mate Sebastian Vettel.

    Leclerc responded by attempting to put in an epic drive from 15th on the grid to the delight of his home fans.

    While initially it went well with passes on Lando Norris and Romain Grosjean, it came to naught when he tried to pass Nico Hulkenberg and instead suffered a puncture that would ultimately end his race.

    “The Monaco Grand Prix is likely to cost Ferrari dearly,” reads the opening line from Italy’s Formula Passion.

    The report added that “relations between Maranello and the managers who manage the Monegasque’s career are already close to breaking point”, so much so that Leclerc disobeyed orders on Sunday.

    Ferrari wanted Leclerc to cautiously make his way into the points whereas he went into the grand prix with a risk everything attitude.

    It was, according to Formula Passion, a “scream” to rival teams that all is not well between Leclerc and Ferrari.

    The report concluded: “The first 10 laps of Charles Leclerc’s race in the Principality race with overtakes at Loews and Rascasse, yes full of fury, but also a silent revolt towards a management repeatedly penalising him.

    “It was a ‘scream’ that crossed the paddock and found ears ready to listen to it. In particular, the interest of a top-level team with potential availability took shape late on Sunday.”
    https://www.planetf1.com/news/lecler...reaking-point/
    https://www.formulapassion.it/manife...co-438045.html
    ---
    Confirms pretty much what I already said. Leclerc took a dumb approach that was doomed to fail. Despite the team advising him differently.

    I checked some comments on a few other articles on Leclercs race from non-ferrari fans and like 95% were bashing Leclerc for being too aggressive and stupid on track. And then being immature destroying his car rushing back to the pits for no reason while being a danger on track.

    Leclercs attitude and mental breakdowns are worrying, before the the season people were praising him for being so down to earth and cool. And turns out that was not the case as he is losing his head, maybe the pressure of driving for Ferrari has gotten to him already? The Ferrari team leaders obviously have their share of the problems.

    Charles have shown great race pace, but his qualifying performance have been poor - ultimately Leclerc is a work in progress, and I dont think he will be ready to beat Hamilton before he retires.

    Oh well, still early, lets hope I am wrong.
    Last edited by Lesky; 29th May 2019 at 01:16.
    Michael Schumacher - "I dont give gifts on track.

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    Charles is only 21. He was welcomed big time by both fans and the team. Seb came to Ferrari as Schumy Jr. Seb for sure has the credentials of a champion. So yeah; I for one would like to see Ferrari treat both drivers as say Merc does this year. That almost win that Charles had; might have helped his cause as to where he stands 1,2 wise. Charles has to realize he's got the seat most every driver wishes for. So yeah; Ferrari isn't going to change their ways for him any time soon unless he gets a few poles and podiums. Throw in a win!!
    Last edited by Brembo; 29th May 2019 at 05:42.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    Charles is only 21. He was welcomed big time by both fans and the team. Seb came to Ferrari as Schumy Jr. Seb for sure has the credentials of a champion. So yeah; I for one would like to see Ferrari treat both drivers as say Merc does this year. That almost win that Charles had; might have helped his cause as to where he stands 1,2 wise. Charles has to realize he's got the seat most every driver wishes for. So yeah; Ferrari isn't going to change their ways for him any time soon unless he gets a few poles and podiums. Throw in a win!!
    He certainly didn't help his cause by throwing the team under the bus by doing that reckless stunt on Sunday. Team made a mistake on Saturday, that doesn't mean he has to return the favor on Sunday. Now Leclerc has got only 1 way - start out qualifying Seb which he only managed once (Bahrain) in all 6 qualifying sessions so far.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chinmay View Post
    He certainly didn't help his cause by throwing the team under the bus by doing that reckless stunt on Sunday. Team made a mistake on Saturday, that doesn't mean he has to return the favor on Sunday. Now Leclerc has got only 1 way - start out qualifying Seb which he only managed once (Bahrain) in all 6 qualifying sessions so far.
    I agree for sure. But will the team be fair and allow him to out qualify Seb? Or will there be more Sat quali. team mistakes? Charles alone did that Sunday driving , how many were involved in Saturdays decision? Being home @ Monaco , starting in the back, being 21, yeah, it took it's toll. Besides the fact that had Charles not DNF, where was he going to finish ? Probably with no points at the best 12, or worse. He went for a points finish. Finishing just anywhere and saying, well what could I do just ain't in his blood!
    Last edited by Brembo; 29th May 2019 at 07:55.

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    Reading all this is making me laugh and cry at the same time...
    Charles did exactly what a racing driver would do, either overtake on a track that is so retarded in allowing overtaking, or crash... so he crashed big fat deal...
    Monaco is a **** track that does not belong to the modern day formula one racing calendar, and sadly, I'll take flack from some of you for saying this.
    The kid is exceptionally good, and if Ferrari lose him because of all the illogical decisions made around him, it will be so bad!
    And another comment where I will take many comments... Ferrari these first 6 races have looked incompetent at best.

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    a win for Leclerc in Canada and things will look a lot better

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrarichamp View Post
    a win for Leclerc in Canada and things will look a lot better
    I second that. go for it charles.
    One thing is bothering me since Bahrain. When Charles was leading the pack about 10sec in front of Hamilton why was Peter Bonnington able to reassure Ham not to worry as the race would come to them later.?
    How did he know? Am i missing something here?????
    I have suspicions we have a mole.
    It's probably just me trying to find excuses.


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    I also think that his home race was a very emotive one for Charles.
    Clearly he is loved by everyone in Monaco.
    Their driver in a Ferrari
    And Charles was driving in memory of his dad and Jules.
    He wanted to make them proud and if he wasn't going to get points at least he didn't go for a Sunday afternoon drive around the principality.
    He can do that any day of the week.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    I agree for sure. But will the team be fair and allow him to out qualify Seb? Or will there be more Sat quali. team mistakes? Charles alone did that Sunday driving , how many were involved in Saturdays decision? Being home @ Monaco , starting in the back, being 21, yeah, it took it's toll. Besides the fact that had Charles not DNF, where was he going to finish ? Probably with no points at the best 12, or worse. He went for a points finish. Finishing just anywhere and saying, well what could I do just ain't in his blood!
    Ham, Vet, Schumi etc....in their career while driving different cars, started way down on this track still claimed into points.
    When there is a high chance of SC, you need to make moves accordingly. It's not like everyone will open door for you to overtake.

    Regarding Outqualify Vet, you were saying will team allow . Pathetic.
    Quali its purely your skill to maximise your starting position. Only in Monaco, team did a blunder in quali to Leclerc. Other 5 races, it's his potential chance to outqualify vettel. where he threw away in Baku, got pole in Bahrain.

    In Monaco, Vettel crashed in FP3. Had a couple of moments in q1 & q3 kissing the barrier.

    None of our drivers are comfortable with the car. That's the first point need to be discussed. When the car is there, it will give both of our drivers to pull up something. Also it will differentiate both drivers.
    "I've always believed that you should never, ever give up and you should always keep fighting even when there's only a slightest chance " : - Michael Schumacher

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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    Ham, Vet, Schumi etc....in their career while driving different cars, started way down on this track still claimed into points.
    When there is a high chance of SC, you need to make moves accordingly. It's not like everyone will open door for you to overtake.

    Regarding Outqualify Vet, you were saying will team allow . Pathetic.
    Quali its purely your skill to maximise your starting position. Only in Monaco, team did a blunder in quali to Leclerc. Other 5 races, it's his potential chance to outqualify vettel. where he threw away in Baku, got pole in Bahrain.

    In Monaco, Vettel crashed in FP3. Had a couple of moments in q1 & q3 kissing the barrier.

    None of our drivers are comfortable with the car. That's the first point need to be discussed. When the car is there, it will give both of our drivers to pull up something. Also it will differentiate both drivers.
    Quli is as you say purely skill. Charles needed to go out again to use his skill. Holding him was again as you so well say it, pathetic indeed! Only Monaco!!! Charles' home town. I see your already comparing Charles to 3 legends,Ham, Vet and Schumi! This is the year Charles can be considered in driving school, and is supposed to be in a top car" A Ferrari! " And yeah; when the car is there for them; Seb's finger will be back in the air!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lesky View Post
    https://www.planetf1.com/news/lecler...reaking-point/
    https://www.formulapassion.it/manife...co-438045.html
    ---
    Confirms pretty much what I already said. Leclerc took a dumb approach that was doomed to fail. Despite the team advising him differently.

    I checked some comments on a few other articles on Leclercs race from non-ferrari fans and like 95% were bashing Leclerc for being too aggressive and stupid on track. And then being immature destroying his car rushing back to the pits for no reason while being a danger on track.

    Leclercs attitude and mental breakdowns are worrying, before the the season people were praising him for being so down to earth and cool. And turns out that was not the case as he is losing his head, maybe the pressure of driving for Ferrari has gotten to him already? The Ferrari team leaders obviously have their share of the problems.

    Charles have shown great race pace, but his qualifying performance have been poor - ultimately Leclerc is a work in progress, and I dont think he will be ready to beat Hamilton before he retires.

    Oh well, still early, lets hope I am wrong.
    Melodrama's so much fun. In black and white for everyone to see.

    What we saw was a kid who went racing and a flash of something I personally haven't seen since Gilles Villeneuve.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    Quli is as you say purely skill. Charles needed to go out again to use his skill. Holding him was again as you so well say it, pathetic indeed! Only Monaco!!! Charles' home town. I see your already comparing Charles to 3 legends,Ham, Vet and Schumi! This is the year Charles can be considered in driving school, and is supposed to be in a top car" A Ferrari! " And yeah; when the car is there for them; Seb's finger will be back in the air!
    Finger will be back to show It to somebody
    "I've always believed that you should never, ever give up and you should always keep fighting even when there's only a slightest chance " : - Michael Schumacher

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    I would criticise Leclerc had he done that in some other track, just what Vettel did all last year. In Monaco, you have 15 cars ahead of you, virtually no overtaking opportunity presents itself, you’ve got to create them. Add to that he was screwed in qualifying for no fault of his. I like it what he tried, he lost on this occasion, will get plenty of success in future. Go kid, fight as hard as you can
    I prefer to beat them on Sunday -Fernando Alonso, Press Conference Korean GP 2010

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    Everyone tends to forget just how hard Monaco is for overtaking. Also , ya he did crash but before that he had an amazing overtake which displayed just what a great talent he is.
    Charles is still 21, expectations should be leveraged. He is not Michael Schumacher who has started dead last and got to P5 in Monaco. Michael is considered one of the GOTA.

    Team needs to focus on the car and release pressure on the drivers.
    "If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    But will the team be fair and allow him to out qualify Seb? Or will there be more Sat quali. team mistakes?
    I have been thinking this, but didnt voice it cause people are touchy on this topic. Chinmay and nani will lose their **** and take it personally.
    But i did get the feeling that maybe they didnt want him to out qualify seb. Maybe i am wrong, but making him sit it out was just ridiculous.

    And if there is any truth to the rumours about him being cheesed off with the team, to the point of looking elsewhere, then there is something to be said about the theory being at least half true.
    Silently, like a shadow

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    I also find it amusing that no one is criticizing Verstappen's move on Hamilton, but piling on Leclerc. At least Leclerc almost executed his move. Verstappen and Hamilton are both lucky Verstappen didn't end both of their races.


    Disappointed Since 2010

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    Quote Originally Posted by Giallo 550 View Post
    I also find it amusing that no one is criticizing Verstappen's move on Hamilton, but piling on Leclerc. At least Leclerc almost executed his move. Verstappen and Hamilton are both lucky Verstappen didn't end both of their races.
    Shame Max didn't end both their races, Seb would have won and that would have been a nice surprise for us after Charles' DNF!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Giallo 550 View Post
    I also find it amusing that no one is criticizing Verstappen's move on Hamilton, but piling on Leclerc. At least Leclerc almost executed his move. Verstappen and Hamilton are both lucky Verstappen didn't end both of their races.
    Becoz everyone here wants mad max in ferrari. They want max & Lec combo.
    If Lec thrashes max, then the same guys call max avg driver. Vice versa. Such is the situation in this forum.
    Ferrari didn’t extend kimi’s contract, everyone called Lec to be his replacement. The same way they are calling mad max for vettel replacement. Funny how the things are.
    "I've always believed that you should never, ever give up and you should always keep fighting even when there's only a slightest chance " : - Michael Schumacher

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormsearcher View Post
    But i did get the feeling that maybe they didnt want him to out qualify seb. Maybe i am wrong, but making him sit it out was just ridiculous.
    There is no rational explanation for why they would do that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by killer View Post
    There is no rational explanation for why they would do that.
    You are right on the money! Rational no, but yeah; an irrational explanation is; Ferrari took Seb in as a legendary 4x WDC champion. If they let Charles loose to compete 1 on 1; that will be looked at as the cause of all Sebs mistakes and not concentrating . He signed up as #1 $$ driver. He's feels he's supposed to race against Merc, R Bull and the rest of the enemy teams, not having to also beat out the other Ferrari. Hoping more for a SC to come out rather than his #2 team mate helping out every race just ain't right. Having a car perfect for each driver is a tough call. Even Lewis talks about his ride not exactly the way he wants it but does what a top driver does. And ! He even has to out race his ream mate! Wrong tires and all .

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    I agree there could be seniority problems with the team expecting Seb to out qualify and thus race Charles into 2nd place................that would be their expectation and on paper anyone could be forgiven for that expectation.
    But its not the case.............how do the team react???? They try to engineer the pecking order.
    Maybe Ferrari need to take a good hard look at how they go racing and ignore the media.
    Fix it Ferrari please before we repeat 2014 season!!!!!!

    As for Charles he may be seething but I think he will just be trying to work out how he can race against his own team and everyone else................hard times young man but you can do it.
    On reflection it kinda sounds rather like the reverse of the Hamilton, Alonso, Ron Dennis debacle at Macca 2007.
    Anyone too young to remember Ron Dennis appeared to be helping Lewis in his rookie year to beat Fernando whom they had just signed!!! Of course they tripped over themselves with both drivers finishing on equal points 1 point behind Kimi
    who won WDC and Ferrari WCC.......no complaints there.


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    Quote Originally Posted by racingbradley View Post
    I agree there could be seniority problems with the team expecting Seb to out qualify and thus race Charles into 2nd place................that would be their expectation and on paper anyone could be forgiven for that expectation.
    But its not the case.............how do the team react???? They try to engineer the pecking order.
    Maybe Ferrari need to take a good hard look at how they go racing and ignore the media.
    Fix it Ferrari please before we repeat 2014 season!!!!!!

    As for Charles he may be seething but I think he will just be trying to work out how he can race against his own team and everyone else................hard times young man but you can do it.
    On reflection it kinda sounds rather like the reverse of the Hamilton, Alonso, Ron Dennis debacle at Macca 2007.
    Anyone too young to remember Ron Dennis appeared to be helping Lewis in his rookie year to beat Fernando whom they had just signed!!! Of course they tripped over themselves with both drivers finishing on equal points 1 point behind Kimi
    who won WDC and Ferrari WCC.......no complaints there.
    Spot on, racingbradley, fancy a new job as team manager?

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    Quote Originally Posted by wisepie View Post
    Spot on, racingbradley, fancy a new job as team manager?
    They could do worse


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    Quote Originally Posted by Lesky View Post
    https://www.planetf1.com/news/lecler...reaking-point/
    https://www.formulapassion.it/manife...co-438045.html
    ---
    Confirms pretty much what I already said. Leclerc took a dumb approach that was doomed to fail. Despite the team advising him differently.

    I checked some comments on a few other articles on Leclercs race from non-ferrari fans and like 95% were bashing Leclerc for being too aggressive and stupid on track. And then being immature destroying his car rushing back to the pits for no reason while being a danger on track.

    Leclercs attitude and mental breakdowns are worrying, before the the season people were praising him for being so down to earth and cool. And turns out that was not the case as he is losing his head, maybe the pressure of driving for Ferrari has gotten to him already? The Ferrari team leaders obviously have their share of the problems.

    Charles have shown great race pace, but his qualifying performance have been poor - ultimately Leclerc is a work in progress, and I dont think he will be ready to beat Hamilton before he retires.

    Oh well, still early, lets hope I am wrong.
    Mental breakdowns? You are overly dramatizing things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by racingbradley View Post
    I agree there could be seniority problems with the team expecting Seb to out qualify and thus race Charles into 2nd place................that would be their expectation and on paper anyone could be forgiven for that expectation.
    But its not the case.............how do the team react???? They try to engineer the pecking order.
    Maybe Ferrari need to take a good hard look at how they go racing and ignore the media.
    Fix it Ferrari please before we repeat 2014 season!!!!!!
    It is best not to choose malice where incompetence will suffice. There is no good reason for them to risk not having 2 cars in the top 10 just to stroke Sebastian's ego or make management feel good about the money they are paying him. There is also no good reason for them to shoot down their own investment that is Charles--unless we believe he is nothing more than a butler for Seb--except that his apparent skill and bravery say absolutely otherwise.

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    Leclerc is trying to performing like he's supposed to. Not like Ferrari want's him to. At least not yet. And yeah; I believe it has to do with $$$. What harm has come to the Merc team by letting Bottas race to win and do a pole? Lewis is still giving his best and Bottas' points are putting Merc over the top along with Lewis! The word "team" means 2 or more, such as having at least two drivers. Points + points =s WCC. Not letting Charles back out that one time ; gave up the supposed to have been secret. It's no longer fans imagination, as to who's the main interest regardless of results. A safe DNF because of giving 100% trying is far better than 0 points out of the top ten due to team orders.
    Last edited by Brembo; 31st May 2019 at 06:30.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    Leclerc is trying to performing like he's supposed to. Not like Ferrari want's him to. At least not yet. And yeah; I believe it has to do with $$$. What harm has come to the Merc team by letting Bottas race to win and do a pole? Lewis is still giving his best and Bottas' points are putting Merc over the top along with Lewis! The word "team" means 2 or more, such as having at least two drivers. Points + points =s WCC. Not letting Charles back out that one time ; gave up the supposed to have been secret. It's no longer fans imagination, as to who's the main interest regardless of results. A safe DNF because of giving 100% trying is far better than 0 points out of the top ten due to team orders.
    So I agree with most of your points, specifically how stupid it is to not realize 2 cars are needed for maximum results.

    But I can't imagine they would sacrifice the future--and mind you Charles was bred for this drive--for the present. I'd genuinely like to understand how you say money plays into it and what you think they seek to gain by holding back Charles. If you could expound on this further then it will help me see where you are coming from.

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    It's just my way of thinking. Money is what it's all about in any professional sport. Seb is signed up for big time millions regardless of how he's doing. It looks bad enough he can't beat Lewis and lets throw in Bottas and Max giving Seb a tough time as far as points, if Charles is also allowed to race to beat Seb like Bottas and Lewis are doing , Ferrari looks to be out of control from their main office to on the track. Blaming the car and those responsible for sending the car out right; and the pit wall during the race, has to be killing their morale; esp. knowing their jobs are on the line 24/7 . Their's no ; O K , I get paid any way. Seb's mistakes are his and his alone. But stay cool. The check is in the mail!
    Last edited by Brembo; 31st May 2019 at 12:46.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    It's just my way of thinking. Money is what it's all about in any professional sport. Seb is signed up for big time millions regardless of how he's doing. It looks bad enough he can't beat Lewis and lets throw in Bottas and Max giving Seb a tough time as far as points, if Charles is also allowed to race to beat Seb like Bottas and Lewis are doing , Ferrari looks to be out of control from their main office to on the track. Blaming the car and those responsible for sending the car out right; and the pit wall during the race, has to be killing their morale; esp. knowing their jobs are on the line 24/7 . Their's no ; O K , I get paid any way. Seb's mistakes are his and his alone. But stay cool. The check is in the mail!
    "I've always believed that you should never, ever give up and you should always keep fighting even when there's only a slightest chance " : - Michael Schumacher

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    It's just my way of thinking. Money is what it's all about in any professional sport. Seb is signed up for big time millions regardless of how he's doing. It looks bad enough he can't beat Lewis and lets throw in Bottas and Max giving Seb a tough time as far as points, if Charles is also allowed to race to beat Seb like Bottas and Lewis are doing , Ferrari looks to be out of control from their main office to on the track. Blaming the car and those responsible for sending the car out right; and the pit wall during the race, has to be killing their morale; esp. knowing their jobs are on the line 24/7 . Their's no ; O K , I get paid any way. Seb's mistakes are his and his alone. But stay cool. The check is in the mail!
    Thanks for your reply. What does not work for me with this equation is that Ferrari would be betting against its own money, ruining its investment for the future, and dragging the marque down as it does so. Surely someone's got to have done the math here?

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