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Thread: 2019 CanadianGP: Race

  1. #631
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    I think is better. All of us can moved on. This issue has been over analyzed and over discussed. We cant bring back that moment anymore. Let FIA rot with their conscience.

    I believe Ferrari is starting to make things right. LAW of Averages will ultimately catch up Mercs.


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  2. #632
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyss4k View Post
    The team we are rooting for is not Ferrari anymore.
    This actually furthers my point that F1 is corrupt...no one is taking a win a way from Hamilton or Mercedes. Ferrari have been told and put in their place.

    Why not lodge the protest, even if you will loose, at least you would have shown support for your driver and made your position clear. Whatever, F1 is dead. I’ll move on from all of this, but I still don’t buy any of it.

    **edit - Ferrari might be taking a different route -

    https://ca.motorsport.com/f1/news/fe...anada/4473304/
    Last edited by ferrari1.8t; 13th June 2019 at 10:43.
    ~FORZA FERRARI~

  3. #633
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    I don’t think it’s the end of the matter, Ferraro are just planning to do it a different way.
    https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f...mpression=true

  4. #634
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    Clarification on Mercedes hydraulic system change and a pit radio call

    Clarified the "yellow" Mercedes in the verification stage

    At the end of the Canadian Grand Prix, the technical commissioners held back Lewis Hamilton's car for a long time. The Mercedes engineers gave explanations on a change to the hydraulic system of the transmission unit completed before the start.

    The Montreal post-race was animated as it was not seen for a long time, with pilots, ex-pilots, experts and enthusiasts who were divided in judging the 'nasty thing' of the Canadian Grand Prix between Sebastian Vettel and Lewis Hamilton.

    But while in the paddock, and not only, the decision taken by the College of Sports Commissioners operating in Montreal was discussed, in the closed park there was, during the technical checks, a long confrontation between the commissioners and the Mercedes engineers.

    When the technical commissioners checked the number 44 car as usual, they noticed that the hydraulic system of the transmission unit did not correspond perfectly to the one verified previously, and here the discussions started.

    A dialogue that ended when the Mercedes technicians demonstrated the identical functionality of the system on the car with the one verified previously.

    Article 34.2 of the sports regulation is very clear in this regard: "Any spare parts that a team wants to adapt must be similar in design, mass, inertia and have the same functionality as the original". As a result, the FIA report stated: "The hydraulic system was compliant with article 34.2 of the 2019 sports regulation".

    Another small mystery emerged regarding a radio team between Hamilton and his pit wall during the training lap before the start. Lewis informed his engineer that the anti-stall system had activated when he started the single-seater, and the team subsequently reassured him with a clear message: "no problem, Lewis".

    According to some interpretations the information could have been included among those prohibited by the regulation, but Mercedes has confirmed that it had previously asked the racing direction for permission to inform its pilot, and did so only after receiving the okay.

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  5. #635
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    https://www.racefans.net/wp-content/...-2016-2019.jpg

    Why Hamilton didn’t get a penalty in Monaco – but Vettel did in Canada

    The controversial incident which decided the Canadian Grand Prix has prompted many questions over whether the FIA stewards make consistent rulings.

    The stakes couldn’t have been much higher last weekend: The decision to hand Sebastian Vettel a five-second penalty for forcing Lewis Hamilton off the track when he rejoined the circuit ultimately cost the Ferrari driver a victory.

    Among the many points raised by RaceFans readers in response to the decision has been why a seemingly similar past incident did not receive the same penalty. In 2016 Hamilton appeared to mete out similar treatment to Daniel Ricciardo when the pair were fighting for the lead of the Monaco Grand Prix.

    The rulings handed down for those two incidents reveal why they were treated differently, and why a more recent incident provides the precedent for Vettel’s punishment.

    Canada 2019: Vettel blocks Hamilton

    https://www.racefans.net/wp-content/...-141748-15.jpg

    On lap 48 at the Circuit Gilles Villeneuve last weekend Vettel left the track completely at turn three and rejoined at turn four. As he rejoined he crossed from the left-hand side of the track to the right-hand side, onto the racing line. The stewards ruled that by doing so he forced Hamilton to take evasive action, including driving off the track himself, to avoid a collision.

    “Car five [Vettel] left the track at turn three, rejoined the track at turn four in an unsafe manner and forced car 44 off track,” they noted. “Car 44 had to take evasive action to avoid a collision.”

    The focus of the stewards’ concern was the manner in which Vettel rejoined the track and the racing line.


    Monaco 2016: Hamilton blocks Ricciardo

    https://www.racefans.net/wp-content/...1-220200-1.jpg


    Three years earlier in Monaco, Hamilton went off at turn 10, the Nouvelle Chicane, while leading Ricciardo. He rejoined the racing line. As they accelerated through turn 11 Ricciardo moved right to try to overtake and Hamilton squeezed him towards the barrier, obliging Ricciardo to back off. The stewards officially investigated the incident but took no action.

    They noted Hamilton “appeared to not leave enough room whilst defending a position in turn 11” but ruled that he “left at least one car width between his own car and the edge of the track.”

    There are two differences between the rulings, the first of which is more significant when comparing it to what happened last weekend. This is that Hamilton, unlike Vettel, had already rejoined the racing line before the alleged block took place. In other words, in the eyes of the stewards, Hamilton rejoining the track and Hamilton defending his position from Ricciardo were two separate incidents; Hamilton leaving the track at turn 10 isn’t even mentioned in their ruling.

    That first difference renders the second one moot as far as this comparison goes, but it’s worth noting the stewards also ruled Hamilton did leave a car’s width for Ricciardo. From looking at Ricciardo’s onboard it seems to be very little more than a car’s width at best. However as the image of the Canada incident above shows it was more room than Vettel left for Hamilton, as the Ferrari driver used the full width of the track at the exit, up to the white line.

    Japan 2018: Verstappen blocks Raikkonen

    https://www.racefans.net/wp-content/...7-154206-2.jpg

    https://www.racefans.net/wp-content/...7-154202-7.jpg

    A clearer comparison between Vettel’s penalty last weekend and a more recent precedent can be found in last year’s Japanese Grand Prix. On that occasion Max Verstappen left the track fully in the chicane, and did not leave enough room for Kimi Raikkonen as he rejoined the racing line.

    “The stewards reviewed the video evidence, and determined that car 33 locked up his brakes and left the track at turn 16, cut the chicane and rejoined track on the racing line in turn 17 and in the process collided with car seven.”

    Here the only significant difference between the incidents is that Hamilton went off the track to avoid being hit by Vettel, whereas Raikkonen stayed on the track and was hit by Verstappen. The penalties were the same.

    Vettel, who was following Raikkonen at the time, had a clear view of the incident. And as he pointed out at the time, because Verstappen had gone off the track, it wasn’t Raikkonen who had to get out of the way.

    “He’s [Verstappen’s] off the track and he comes back and if Kimi just drives on they collide. But it’s not always right that the other guy has to move.”

    Unfortunately Vettel appeared to forget that point on Sunday.

    https://www.racefans.net/2019/06/12/...did-in-canada/
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  6. #636
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    https://formularapida.net/wp-content..._ZXkAA8EBW.jpg

    Tear-off ruined Sainz’s Canadian GP as McLaren investigate Norris’ issue

    McLaren’s F1 Canadian GP ended up in no points after both Carlos Sainz and Lando Norris faced different issues which hampered their running.

    McLaren’s fate in the F1 Canadian GP at Circuit Gilles-Villeneuve was sealed very early after both drivers endured troubles with Norris retiring after his car’s right rear suspension melted due to fire in his brake ducts in a freak case.

    His teammate Sainz was forced to pit early after a tear-off got stuck in his brake duct and caused overheating. He switched on to the hard compound on Lap 3 itself and completed the race on the same set. He looked to be inside the Top 10 until the final lap.

    He was overtaken by both Racing Point’s Lance Stroll and Toro Rosso’s Daniil Kvyat to be demoted to 11th and out of points. Earlier in the season, Kimi Raikkonen faced a similar issue like Sainz as the team investigates the cause for Norris’ fire.

    “Disappointing end to the weekend,” said Sainz. “I was forced to pit very early on lap three because of a tear-off stuck in a brake duct. We had to pit immediately to remove it, since it caused excessive overheating, and to go onto the hard tyres.

    “We had good pace at times but 67 laps were just too many for the tyres, and not even the extra tyre management was enough to maintain the fight for points. We weren’t able to show our true pace, which I think was a solid points finish.”

    Norris, on the other hand, has no clue of the issue as he said he did not hit any walls. “I had a problem with overheating at the back of the car which led to my retirement – I have no clue what happened. I didn’t hit a wall or anything so I’ve no idea.

    “It’s annoying because until then it had been a fun race, battling with Max in the opening laps. There was good potential to maybe get some points today so it’s especially frustrating. But these things happen.”

    The team is certainly looking into Norris’ freak issue. “After having some good Sundays at recent races, there were several incidents which meant we weren’t able to score the points we hoped would be on the table with the pace we had in our cars,” said Andreas Seidl.

    “Unfortunately we lost Lando’s car quite early in the race due to an mechanical issue at the rear of the car, which we still need to investigate in full once the car is back in the garage. For Carlos, we had to pit on lap three as one brake corner was overheating.

    “Frustratingly, we found some parts of a tear-off visor inside one of the brake ducts, which we tried to remove as best we could. At the same time we had to put him on the hard tyres, and try to manage the pace over the remaining distance of the race.

    “Carlos did a great job managing the tyres for 67 laps but unfortunately ran out of tyres in the last five laps and there was no way for him to hold the two cars behind.” Fortunately, the team did not lose its fifth place but Renault closed in to just two points now.

    https://formularapida.net/tear-off-r...-norris-issue/
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  7. #637
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    Mercedes reveals cause of Hamilton's hydraulics scare

    https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/...des-amg-f1.jpg

    The Mercedes Formula 1 team has revealed that Lewis Hamilton's hydraulic leak in the Canadian GP was related to the throttle actuator.

    The leak was discovered after qualifying, however, the car then went into parc ferme and the crew left the circuit on Saturday evening not knowing the source of the leak, or how serious it was.

    "We had some issues with Lewis's car before the race and this actually became apparent after qualifying," said trackside engineering director Andrew Shovlin in a Mercedes video.

    "We dropped the floor, we noticed there was some oil on the floor, so somewhere there was a leak. We could also see on the data we were losing some hydraulic pressure.


    "The issue is that the cars are then in parc ferme overnight, we are not allowed to touch them or to investigate it further.

    "So, that investigation moved to Sunday morning, when we are allowed to access the cars again, the mechanics can work on them."

    It was then that the team confirmed that it faced a serious task, one that involved removing the power unit to replace part of the hydraulic system.

    Fortunately, that diagnosis was made early enough to give the team confidence that it could fix it in time, although there was no margin for error.

    "We had to take the power unit out. We traced the leak to the throttle actuator, and then we made a request to the FIA to change the throttle actuator and some of the associated hydraulics.


    "So, that work was quite a big job though, there's a lot to do within that. And it was pretty tight to get Lewis's car back together for the start of the race.

    "Now, we are fairly happy we can do the work in that time. The issue when you have an unknown fault or a leak is you don't know how long it is going to take you to find it, to identify it. We were able to get the car back together.

    "Where we were at risk was if we then fired up and we found another problem, if the engine had to come out again, that's when we would've got short on time and perhaps not even been able to start the race.

    "But, it was a great job by all the mechanics involved and quite happily the car was back together in time and finished the race successfully."

    After the race, the FIA checked that the replacement parts satisfied the rule which says they must be "similar in design, mass, inertia and function to the original" when making changes under parc ferme conditions and deemed it was in compliance with the regulations.

    https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/m...leak-/4470936/
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  8. #638
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    Nascar champ Jimmie Johnson tweets about the Vettel - Lewis incident.

    https://twitter.com/JimmieJohnson/st...27936956928000
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  9. #639
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    Jolyon Palmer's analysis

    1) Lewis - Seb incident
    2) Compares Canadian 2019 incident to Kimi - Max incident 2018 and Lewis - DR Monaco 2016 incident.
    3) DR - Bottas battle
    4) Grosjean leaving the door open on several occasions at several GP's....racecraft non-existant
    5) Stroll - Perez battle.....Stroll good race


    Jolyon Palmer Analyses Seb Vs. Lewis and More! | 2019 Canadian Grand Prix

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IA3ppfFRq4o
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  10. #640
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    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D89rupQXYAA9X5I.jpg

    Binotto to RAI Sport: Knowing Seb he will come out stronger than before from what happened. The image of him moving the position signs under the podium was a moment of authenticity and I think his reaction in that situation is understandable and therefore also appreciable.

    Binotto to RAI Sport: "Looking at the images and data that we have available, we are convinced that Seb has not done anything wrong. He made a mistake but we think he only tried to recover the car. He slowed down and returned to the track safely."

    Binotto says that Ferrari has withdrawn from the appeal but evaluate the right to review: "For our part we are collecting all available data, trying to bring new elements to eventually have a different decision. We'll see in what form, but we are definitely working hard on this"

    Binotto about the upcoming race weekend at Paul Ricard: "I think the #FrenchGP circuit will be more difficult for us. It's similar to Barcelona than Canada. But we also know we want to do well and measure ourselves with a little bit of confidence."
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  11. #641
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    This Ferrari team is like a toothless old tiger. No guts. They have a veto power which they havent used in ages and even that will be taken away in the 2021 shake-up. Knowing this Ferrari management, they will meekly give that up as well.
    #KeepFightingMichael | #CiaoJules

  12. #642
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    Alex quartz something like that a has been Austrian driver caused that many accidents they should of jailed him he has no right to comment on anything what an imposter another jealous Austrian jealous of the mighty German seb.

  13. #643
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    https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f...eview/4473759/

    Ferrari has confirmed that it has withdrawn its intention to appeal Sebastian Vettel’s Canadian Grand Prix penalty, as it now evaluates a request for an official review of the incident.
    The Italian outfit had until this evening to confirm whether or not it intended to go through with its appeal against the five-second penalty that Vettel was handed for rejoining the track in an unsafe manner and forcing Lewis Hamilton off track.

    But well aware that such in-race sanctions cannot be appealed, any effort to take the matter to the International Court of Appeal was always likely to be unsuccessful.

    Shortly before the deadline expired, a Ferrari spokesperson has confirmed that it has informed the governing body it will not be taking the appeal any further.

    However, as revealed by Motorsport.com earlier, Ferrari is now evaluating whether or not to request an official FIA review of the incident based on new evidence it is gathering.

    The FIA's own International Sporting Code gives competitors an option for a post-event review of decisions, providing that a ‘significant and new element’ is discovered that was not available at the time the ruling was made.

    The code states that the period during which a petition for review can happen is 14 days after the final classification was made, which means Ferrari has until race day of the French Grand Prix to go down this route.

    Article 14.1.1 of the FIA’s International Sporting Code states: "[If] a significant and relevant new element is discovered which was unavailable to the parties seeking the review at the time of the Competition concerned, whether or not the stewards have already given a ruling, these stewards or, failing this, those designated by the FIA, must meet (in person or by other means) on a date agreed amongst themselves, summoning the party or parties concerned to hear any relevant explanations and to judge in the light of the facts and elements brought before them."

    If Ferrari elects to request a review, then it will be required to lodge what new evidence it has, which will then be evaluated either by the four stewards who were on duty at the Canadian Grand Prix or replacements nominated by the governing body.
    People should not resolve to name calling or characterizations if they don't do their homework...
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  14. #644
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    The older Formula drivers who know what hard racing is do not agree with the penalty. The rubber tile drivers from the recent past all agree with the penalty. That's the state of f1 these days.

  15. #645
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    Quote Originally Posted by paolo lalli View Post
    jealous of the mighty German seb.
    Lewis 162 pts.
    Seb 1oo pts.
    Max 88pts.
    Seb needs to be mighty worried about Max ! Lewis has a mighty strong lead over Seb. Seb needs to pray to the "All mighty " for a win this season ! And throw in a prayer that someone at Ferrari can hold Charles back!

  16. #646
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    Lewis 162 pts.
    Seb 1oo pts.
    Max 88pts.
    Seb needs to be mighty worried about Max ! Lewis has a mighty strong lead over Seb. Seb needs to pray to the "All mighty " for a win this season ! And throw in a prayer that someone at Ferrari can hold Charles back!
    Leclerc qualified 0.7 s behind vettel almost a second in the same car and in the race was nowhere to be seen and you’re still with that crap of holding leclerc back?! Here’s an interesting article about sebs race
    https://thejudge13.com/2019/06/14/ve...mpression=true

  17. #647
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    Its been almost a week now. I think we can let it go. FIA is not going to do anything about it, and if you look at this video ( below- kimi vs max Japan 2018--- max was given 5 sec penalty for an identical incident) , then they have been consistent in giving the penalty. Bite on it and lets move on.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgOVofdZjv4
    Silently, like a shadow

  18. #648
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    Quote Originally Posted by T99 View Post
    Leclerc qualified 0.7 s behind vettel almost a second in the same car and in the race was nowhere to be seen and you’re still with that crap of holding leclerc back?! Here’s an interesting article about sebs race
    https://thejudge13.com/2019/06/14/ve...mpression=true
    Seb is supposed to be on a par with the Likes of Lewis . Comparing him and his year so far with a 1st. yr. Ferrari rookie should show Seb the better driver. So far not so good. Either driver winning a few would be just the right results ; for Ferrari & we fans.

  19. #649
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    Now the wolf has turned now he agrees with the penalty.mr wolf warns Ferrari I detect fear from the wolf is he afraid that Ferrari could open a whole new chapter with the fia that can impact mercedes.Ferrari are going after a big fish here not the race result that is now a decoy.Mr wolf I thought you were a clever wolf not so clever mate. Message to the wolf stay out of Ferrari business the ball is rolling now to late.It will be the beginning to the end of the mercedes era watch this space.

  20. #650
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    Seb is supposed to be on a par with the Likes of Lewis . Comparing him and his year so far with a 1st. yr. Ferrari rookie should show Seb the better driver. So far not so good. Either driver winning a few would be just the right results ; for Ferrari & we fans.
    Yeah but Seb has had setup issues with his car, first time in Monaco he did say, that now I am happy with the car, so Monaco and racing is not good combo, so this was actually first race when he was satisfied with the car, and we did see that difference with Leclerc what I was expecting from season start.
    I am not saying that Charles is not good, he has driven much better than I expected, but Seb has so much more experience, so we really cannot expect any young guy to come and beat Seb.

  21. #651
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    64F9EE06-2975-4106-ACB0-03C69F5A0FB5.jpeg

    If LH pass Seb he was out of the limits of the track? Then he was able to keep his position or get it back to Seb?


    "Big things have small beginings"
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  22. #652
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    Quote Originally Posted by 19000rpmF-2004 View Post
    64F9EE06-2975-4106-ACB0-03C69F5A0FB5.jpeg

    If LH pass Seb he was out of the limits of the track? Then he was able to keep his position or get it back to Seb?
    1. Track limits only matter on certain corners
    2. Getting pushed will probably supersede 1.

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    Quote Originally Posted by evo_spook View Post
    1. Track limits only matter on certain corners
    I think the track limits apply everywhere with the caveat that you are obeying track limits to prevent gaining advantage. In the case where a car at a corner without the presence of another car exceeds the track limits, then, if it is deemed that there is no advantage (implied in terms of improved time) then they do not seek to enforce because there was no advantage gained.
    If on the other hand, at the same corner, you exceeded the track limit and were able to overtake by exceeding the track limits then, yes and advantage has been gained and you should then be penalized for exceeding the track limits.

    Quote Originally Posted by evo_spook View Post
    2. Getting pushed will probably supersede 1.
    I think there is a definition for how far along side a car needs to be before you must give space and Hamilton was nowhere near that. Causing a car to brake doesn't mean they were pushed. You can take a line that causes a following car to change their braking point, in fact drivers do that all the time. The closer the more fraught with danger that becomes, but these are always termed racing incidents. Basically 2 cars into one line doesn't compute.
    You do have to leave space but it doesn't have to be on a particular side. In a give stretch you can change direction only once and then return but these, ie move to the left then return to the line on the right.

  24. #654
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimiBot View Post
    Yeah but Seb has had setup issues with his car, first time in Monaco he did say, that now I am happy with the car, so Monaco and racing is not good combo, so this was actually first race when he was satisfied with the car, and we did see that difference with Leclerc what I was expecting from season start.
    I am not saying that Charles is not good, he has driven much better than I expected, but Seb has so much more experience, so we really cannot expect any young guy to come and beat Seb.
    Very well said. Now between the two of them; Seb, Charles , lets see some 1, 2 finishes , either driver on top.

  25. #655
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    Very well said. Now between the two of them; Seb, Charles , lets see some 1, 2 finishes , either driver on top.
    Hope so, we`ll see, it`s a mystery. Maybe or back to normal Mercs 1-2.

  26. #656
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    Seb is supposed to be on a par with the Likes of Lewis . Comparing him and his year so far with a 1st. yr. Ferrari rookie should show Seb the better driver. So far not so good. Either driver winning a few would be just the right results ; for Ferrari & we fans.
    Oh god wt a word of change
    Firstly, Charles thrashes seb. 2ndary seb joined for $$$.
    & now seb should be on terms with Lewis standards.


    As you said for Monaco GP if it isn’t those penalty seb was never 2nd or max gifted to vettel.
    If it those strategy & his mistakes, Lewis isn’t 2018 champion or vettel gifted title to ham .

    Still vettel finished 2nd driver WDC in 2018 ahead of one fastest car.

    Your equation only, couldn’t put in a better way.
    "I've always believed that you should never, ever give up and you should always keep fighting even when there's only a slightest chance " : - Michael Schumacher

  27. #657
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    Sounds O K! Now a few Seb wins in a row !As Schumy said even if there's only a slightest chance !

  28. #658
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    "I've always believed that you should never, ever give up and you should always keep fighting even when there's only a slightest chance " : - Michael Schumacher

  29. #659
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    Ferrari have officially applied for a review of the penalty.
    https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12...ian-gp-penalty

  30. #660
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    heads up peeps....update on the Vettel - Lewis verdict

    Ferrari has confirmed they requested the right to review in regard to the Vettel penalty at Montreal.

    Laurent Mekies worked for the FIA and he was the first to say that there are 'ways' to overturn the verdict.

    hypothetical:

    "Since we are approaching the #FrenchGP weekend, if the case gets re-opened again, I think there is the possibility that the stewards in Paul Ricard will look into the matter and not necessarily the stewards in Canada. So maybe that is what Ferrari was aiming for, new stewards ?"
    It's not how start but how you finish.

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