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Thread: Italian press questions Ferraris political weight

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    Strange isn't. I mean look at Hamilton, only 1 WDC to his name before 2014, and now all of a sudden he's a 5 time WDC!? Is it because he never had the skill, or because he always had the skill but never had the car?



    "he's done mistakes", hmm...not a correct away way to describe Vettel's 2018. "He's done mistakes after mistakes", that'd be more accurate.

    Point's earned by teams during 2nd of 2018:

    Mercedes 310 (Hamilton 195+Bottas 115)

    Ferrari 236 (Vettel 131+Raikkonen 105), Raikkonen had 2 DNF

    Red Bull 196 (Max 144+ Ricciardo 52), Ricciardo had 4 DNF

    So, NO, Ferrari wasn't the 3rd fastest car. Hamilton scored 195 points in the last 9 races of 2018, not because his car was 1-second/lap faster than the others. But because he drove like a 5 time WDC and didn't give away points by making silly mistakes.
    100% on the money! Great post !

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by paolo lalli View Post
    That annoying man Brawn he warns Ferrari and red bull of mercedes resurgence seriously Ross it's called you are to aligned with mercedes you should be as far away from the sport as possible.Permanent gardening leave you know way to much for my liking.
    And to just see how Ross and the midjet are still held up as greats here by many is rough on the eyes. Imagine how Rubens felt knowing then what we now know about Ross and the midjet bum!

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    Strange isn't. I mean look at Hamilton, only 1 WDC to his name before 2014, and now all of a sudden he's a 5 time WDC!? Is it because he never had the skill, or because he always had the skill but never had the car?



    "he's done mistakes", hmm...not a correct away way to describe Vettel's 2018. "He's done mistakes after mistakes", that'd be more accurate.

    Point's earned by teams during 2nd of 2018:

    Mercedes 310 (Hamilton 195+Bottas 115)

    Ferrari 236 (Vettel 131+Raikkonen 105), Raikkonen had 2 DNF

    Red Bull 196 (Max 144+ Ricciardo 52), Ricciardo had 4 DNF

    So, NO, Ferrari wasn't the 3rd fastest car. Hamilton scored 195 points in the last 9 races of 2018, not because his car was 1-second/lap faster than the others. But because he drove like a 5 time WDC and didn't give away points by making silly mistakes.
    Can u describe me When was ham behind others cars I mean behind Max & DR Rbull. ??? Did he made any overtakes on these guys on pure racing?

    vettel during 2nd half, qualified even behind Rbull? Did u forget Wet Qualifications?

    Ofcourse Vettel doesn't have cushion like mercs does with Bottas, if ham want's to overtake Bottas it's a free pass.

    Max, vettel, Kimi, DR all the drivers do pass other drivers at some races. But tell me with Ham?
    German GP was luck for him, Hungary when we were strong on DRY quali, it started to rain ham took strong pole. At other race, max was leading got hit by ocon where Ham won.

    Vettel on trying to pass others, you call them as silly mistakes ? When it comes off then?
    Example, Max passed Lec n made contact with him. But if that doesn't come off then what u call him?

    Now tell me Did Ham ever come across such racing ? Even with fresh tyres he couldn't pass kimi, at other race couldn't pass Max. So he just sits for the opportunity.
    Also you are given free hand from penalties you would get pts too.

    Then why did Vettel finished ahead of other Mercs Car which is also strongest ?
    "I've always believed that you should never, ever give up and you should always keep fighting even when there's only a slightest chance " : - Michael Schumacher

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    ...Long post...
    First of all, lets look at some hard cold facts, Vettel's mistakes (from 2016-2019):

    2016 UK- spun multiple times
    2016 SPA- Crashed in to Kimi, first lap
    2016 Malaysia- Crashed into Rosberg, first lap
    2016 Mexico- Made double movement under braking, resultant in crash with Dani Ric
    2017 Malaysia- Crashed with stroll after the race
    2017 Canada- Crashed into Max, yet another lap 1 incident
    2017 Baku- Intentionally crashed into Hamilton, getting a penalty. Could've easily won that race
    2017 Singapore- Did one of his typical chop at the start, taking out Raikkonen. Double DNF for Ferrari and 100% Vettel's fault
    2017 Mexico- Crashed into Max. Vettel's habit of crashing into people at the start of a GP continues
    2018 Baku- Lost the lead after restart and damaged his tyres by trying to overtake Bottas. But it was a racer's instinct and I'm not blaming him for that
    2018 France- Crashed into Bottas and yup, Lap 1
    2018 Germany- Crashed into the barrier
    2018 Singapore- Crashed in FP2
    2018 Monza- Crashed into Hamilton and spun, Lap 1
    2018 Japan- Crashed into Max and spun
    2018 USA- Ignored the red flag and earned himself a 3-place grid drop. Crashed into Dani Ric, Lap 1
    2019 Bahrain- Spun off after his battle with Hamilton
    2019 Canada- Another battle with Hamilton and going off track

    Now if we ignore Baku 2018, that's nearly 20 incidents. Are you telling me all these incidents are a result of "Vettel on trying to pass others"!?
    And it's not like he suddenly began to make mistakes only at Ferrari, he was similarly error-prone in his Red Bull days. That's why Alonso nearly won 2 WDC's, even when Vettel had huge car advantage over Alonso.

    "If ham want's to overtake Bottas it's a free pass"...Yeah, let's not pretend Mr. "Tough Luck", Mr. "Lets take Mark's front wing", Mr. "I don't know what multi 21 mean" Vettel never enjoyed preferential treatments at Ferrari or Red Bull. Ferrari, more than often, ignored Raikkonen's strategy. They already did the same with Charles this year. And what's more, they gave Charles 2 teamorder already to move over for Vettel, even when there's no chance of winning any silverware this year.

    "Then why did Vettel finished ahead of other Mercs Car which is also strongest"...well it's not like Ferrari are paying Vettel 40-45 million bucks every year to finish ahead of Bottas.
    I mean Raikkonen achieved it last year, even Max with Renault powered RB did it.
    Vettel's job is to beat Hamilton and win the WDC, and unfortunately, he has failed in that task quite miserably. Hell...he couldn't even got close to winning the title even when had the car last year...

    Do you really think if Alonso, when he was driving for Ferrari, or if Hamilton driving for Mercedes was spinning out every couple of races and his bosses at Brackley would be giving Hamilton small slaps on the wrist? Or are you suggesting Vettel spins because he's basically running the team from behind the cockpit?

    Not saying Vettel is a bad driver, but at Red Bull, he was in the right car at the right moment with a teammate he could easily dominate.
    And also not saying Vettel is solely responsible for the lack of title over the last 5 years. Ferrari deserve to get their fair share of blame. But the thing is, Vettel has hardly done himself proud with his performances. Not winning the 2018 WDC was 100% Vettel's fault.
    Last edited by tifosi1993; 8th July 2019 at 17:32.

  5. #65
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    Convincing Ferrari to take Seb on as #1 driver, then going over to Merc and giving all his experience and Ferrari info over to them as Toto proudly said, Ferrari fans have Michael to continue looking up to for giving Merc the know how to be where they are, and for Ferrari being where they now are. Maybe Michael felt at the time , F-1 fans had enough of an Italian team on top ? All in all Seb did look good coming of 4WDCs , but i'm sure Shumy knew it was his ride, not his driving. Go Merc! Then and still going.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    First of all, lets look at some hard cold facts, Vettel's mistakes (from 2016-2019):

    2016 UK- spun multiple times
    2016 SPA- Crashed in to Kimi, first lap
    2016 Malaysia- Crashed into Rosberg, first lap
    2016 Mexico- Made double movement under braking, resultant in crash with Dani Ric
    2017 Malaysia- Crashed with stroll after the race
    2017 Canada- Crashed into Max, yet another lap 1 incident
    2017 Baku- Intentionally crashed into Hamilton, getting a penalty. Could've easily won that race
    2017 Singapore- Did one of his typical chop at the start, taking out Raikkonen. Double DNF for Ferrari and 100% Vettel's fault
    2017 Mexico- Crashed into Max. Vettel's habit of crashing into people at the start of a GP continues
    2018 Baku- Lost the lead after restart and damaged his tyres by trying to overtake Bottas. But it was a racer's instinct and I'm not blaming him for that
    2018 France- Crashed into Bottas and yup, Lap 1
    2018 Germany- Crashed into the barrier
    2018 Singapore- Crashed in FP2
    2018 Monza- Crashed into Hamilton and spun, Lap 1
    2018 Japan- Crashed into Max and spun
    2018 USA- Ignored the red flag and earned himself a 3-place grid drop. Crashed into Dani Ric, Lap 1
    2019 Bahrain- Spun off after his battle with Hamilton
    2019 Canada- Another battle with Hamilton and going off track

    Now if we ignore Baku 2018, that's nearly 20 incidents. Are you telling me all these incidents are a result of "Vettel on trying to pass others"!?
    And it's not like he suddenly began to make mistakes only at Ferrari, he was similarly error-prone in his Red Bull days. That's why Alonso nearly won 2 WDC's, even when Vettel had huge car advantage over Alonso.

    "If ham want's to overtake Bottas it's a free pass"...Yeah, let's not pretend Mr. "Tough Luck", Mr. "Lets take Mark's front wing", Mr. "I don't know what multi 21 mean" Vettel never enjoyed preferential treatments at Ferrari or Red Bull. Ferrari, more than often, ignored Raikkonen's strategy. They already did the same with Charles this year. And what's more, they gave Charles 2 teamorder already to move over for Vettel, even when there's no chance of winning any silverware this year.

    "Then why did Vettel finished ahead of other Mercs Car which is also strongest"...well it's not like Ferrari are paying Vettel 40-45 million bucks every year to finish ahead of Bottas.
    I mean Raikkonen achieved it last year, even Max with Renault powered RB did it.
    Vettel's job is to beat Hamilton and win the WDC, and unfortunately, he has failed in that task quite miserably. Hell...he couldn't even got close to winning the title even when had the car last year...

    Do you really think if Alonso, when he was driving for Ferrari, or if Hamilton driving for Mercedes was spinning out every couple of races and his bosses at Brackley would be giving Hamilton small slaps on the wrist? Or are you suggesting Vettel spins because he's basically running the team from behind the cockpit?

    Not saying Vettel is a bad driver, but at Red Bull, he was in the right car at the right moment with a teammate he could easily dominate.
    And also not saying Vettel is solely responsible for the lack of title over the last 5 years. Ferrari deserve to get their fair share of blame. But the thing is, Vettel has hardly done himself proud with his performances. Not winning the 2018 WDC was 100% Vettel's fault.
    Haven’t u checked my earlier posts ??
    Never considered vettel in the league of MS & Alonso etc.
    vettel should earn that to be in such league, to me neither did Ham nor vettel are in that league of legends.

    RB car was rocket ship, he won it. Mercs is rocket ship ham is winning until it lasts.
    If u give the same mercs machine to vettel still the equation will be vettel winning extra titles. But that doesn’t give him a legendary status. I mean it.

    You are talking about mistakes, that’s what I say. Ham, max, bottas all of them are doing it. But they aren’t highlighted???
    2018 strong car but not championship winning car no matter you agree or not. But finished 2nd behind Ham & ahead of another mercs strong car. Wt abt other seasons ??? 2015 Singapore GP did u expect to take us the pole ?? With that mercs dominance ? He delivered it in Singapore GP no matter how that car is, he has that extra Zip at some circuits even if it’s not the strongest car.
    Wt about Bahrain GP??? Made that strategy work on his own when team called him into pits?
    You were reiterating 2016-2017-2018 mistakes, in fact 2016 we were 3rd fastest car on the grid.
    2017 2nd fastest combined with reliability issues. 2018 1st half we were 1st place strongest car.
    Wasn’t it max throwing away the wins earlier ?? Where DR was smart enough to capitalise on it ?
    Now max is matured enough, you think he’s the real deal at ferrari even though he made mistakes & still continue to do so. But not vettel ??? Why??

    I’m not here to defend vettel, but to support our drivers who are driving for ferrari till they last.
    I’ve said many a times, saying it again give the strong car to both our current drivers & watch that season.
    If he doesn’t deliver, then he needs to be removed.

    But on the same context from the above mentioned statement, Max too made mistakes. In this season too, Count it.
    He’s not error prone. Still you want him at ferrari, then what’s the diff between Vettel & Max???
    "I've always believed that you should never, ever give up and you should always keep fighting even when there's only a slightest chance " : - Michael Schumacher

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    Convincing Ferrari to take Seb on as #1 driver, then going over to Merc and giving all his experience and Ferrari info over to them as Toto proudly said, Ferrari fans have Michael to continue looking up to for giving Merc the know how to be where they are, and for Ferrari being where they now are. Maybe Michael felt at the time , F-1 fans had enough of an Italian team on top ? All in all Seb did look good coming of 4WDCs , but i'm sure Shumy knew it was his ride, not his driving. Go Merc! Then and still going.
    Though the F1 viewer figures have been dropping steadily since 2008...

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPZ View Post
    Though the F1 viewer figures have been dropping steadily since 2008...
    You are correct .Still dropping . Shumy for sure didn't think what he did for Merc was going to be so bad not just for Ferrari, but for F-1. He was a true home boy!

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    Haven’t u checked my earlier posts ??
    Never considered vettel in the league of MS & Alonso etc.
    vettel should earn that to be in such league, to me neither did Ham nor vettel are in that league of legends.

    RB car was rocket ship, he won it. Mercs is rocket ship ham is winning until it lasts.
    If u give the same mercs machine to vettel still the equation will be vettel winning extra titles. But that doesn’t give him a legendary status. I mean it.

    You are talking about mistakes, that’s what I say. Ham, max, bottas all of them are doing it. But they aren’t highlighted???
    2018 strong car but not championship winning car no matter you agree or not. But finished 2nd behind Ham & ahead of another mercs strong car. Wt abt other seasons ??? 2015 Singapore GP did u expect to take us the pole ?? With that mercs dominance ? He delivered it in Singapore GP no matter how that car is, he has that extra Zip at some circuits even if it’s not the strongest car.
    Wt about Bahrain GP??? Made that strategy work on his own when team called him into pits?
    You were reiterating 2016-2017-2018 mistakes, in fact 2016 we were 3rd fastest car on the grid.
    2017 2nd fastest combined with reliability issues. 2018 1st half we were 1st place strongest car.
    Wasn’t it max throwing away the wins earlier ?? Where DR was smart enough to capitalise on it ?
    Now max is matured enough, you think he’s the real deal at ferrari even though he made mistakes & still continue to do so. But not vettel ??? Why??

    I’m not here to defend vettel, but to support our drivers who are driving for ferrari till they last.
    I’ve said many a times, saying it again give the strong car to both our current drivers & watch that season.
    If he doesn’t deliver, then he needs to be removed.

    But on the same context from the above mentioned statement, Max too made mistakes. In this season too, Count it.
    He’s not error prone. Still you want him at ferrari, then what’s the diff between Vettel & Max???
    You can twist it as much as you like, but it's not going to change the fact. And it seems you have problems with accepting facts.

    And stop posting nonsense about other drivers, like Ham, making mistakes. When was the last time you saw Hamilton crashed out of a race or tangled with other car at the start of a GP? It's just childish to compare Hamilton's non-existent mistakes with Vettel's race-ending/race-compromising errors. I have already posted all the costly errors Vettel made during 2016-2019, which is more than Hamilton made in his entire Mercedes-career. Go ahead, post facts and prove me wrong.

    And you're talking about Max, yeah sure, let's compare a 21 year old driver only in his 5th year in F1 with Vettel, a 32 year old veteran who has spent 12 years in F1. Max has grown considerably after Monaco last year, yes he had difficulties at the start of 2018. But after Monaco, he has calmed down quite a lot, kicked Ricciardo's *** and forced him to join Renault.

    I really don't know what the most ardent fans are waiting for with Vettel, he's not getting younger and already at an age that most drivers experience fairly rapid fall. I'm also not going to sink into delusional thinking of "Vettel's the new Schumacher", which he never was, or it's going to get magically much better and he's going to be Ferrari's next world champion. This era is not for Vettel.

    And of course I want Max at Ferrari. Why shouldn't I? Dude is only 21 and he has already established himself as one of the best in current F1. And he will continue to get better.

  10. #70
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    Great honest post! I also as you probably know, want Max @ Ferrari ASAP ! Every time I say it, fans here suggest I find a new forum , stop trolling, this is a Ferrari forum ! A Charles Max team allowed to race will put Ferrari back on top for at least a decade knowing both drivers are still very young . Even if they split Seb's pay, they will be happy!

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    Great honest post! I also as you probably know, want Max @ Ferrari ASAP ! Every time I say it, fans here suggest I find a new forum , stop trolling, this is a Ferrari forum ! A Charles Max team allowed to race will put Ferrari back on top for at least a decade knowing both drivers are still very young . Even if they split Seb's pay, they will be happy!
    No combination of driver pairing will put Ferrari on top until they sort out the car. And do you believe these 2 young drivers have what it takes to help develop the car? It comes from years of F1 experience to sit with the team, give precise feedback and help develop the car into a winner.

    Just shouting and trolling every thread with Max orgasms is not helping. Rather it is extremely irritating. And yes, Ferrari fans on this forum will suggest you find a new forum everytime you start your senseless, unsubstantiated and factless rants.
    #KeepFightingMichael | #CiaoJules

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by vcs316 View Post
    No combination of driver pairing will put Ferrari on top until they sort out the car. And do you believe these 2 young drivers have what it takes to help develop the car? It comes from years of F1 experience to sit with the team, give precise feedback and help develop the car into a winner.

    Just shouting and trolling every thread with Max orgasms is not helping. Rather it is extremely irritating. And yes, Ferrari fans on this forum will suggest you find a new forum everytime you start your senseless, unsubstantiated and factless rants.
    You are right again, we need someone with years of experience to give precise feedback. We have that in Seb a 4x winner. Look how he's got the team and the cars sorted out! Not 1 win all season. Mistakes he makes not the car. Youth is the answer! Here's a fact less rant for you, Max won the last race, senseless but it happened. From 8th pl. to a win ,lapping his team mate on the way. He's now ahead of both our drivers points wise. Senseless since it's against a 4x winner in a Ferrari, but a fact. Almost every thread from most everyone here talks about Max , either good or bad. It's rather irritating , maybe not extremely but yes a royal pain knowing you skip over every other thread to see what I wrote or you would refrain from such nonsense suggesting I'm the only one smart enough to recognize Max as a talented race winner, not in a top car, unless you think Honda is up there with Ferrari and Merc. Give other fans credit also, I'm not alone! I know the weather in Dubai is 104 F. A cold Guinness or two may bring you around. Anyway enjoy the race ! The best to you!

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    You are right again, we need someone with years of experience to give precise feedback. We have that in Seb a 4x winner. Look how he's got the team and the cars sorted out! Not 1 win all season. Mistakes he makes not the car. Youth is the answer! Here's a fact less rant for you, Max won the last race, senseless but it happened. From 8th pl. to a win ,lapping his team mate on the way. He's now ahead of both our drivers points wise. Senseless since it's against a 4x winner in a Ferrari, but a fact. Almost every thread from most everyone here talks about Max , either good or bad. It's rather irritating , maybe not extremely but yes a royal pain knowing you skip over every other thread to see what I wrote or you would refrain from such nonsense suggesting I'm the only one smart enough to recognize Max as a talented race winner, not in a top car, unless you think Honda is up there with Ferrari and Merc. Give other fans credit also, I'm not alone! I know the weather in Dubai is 104 F. A cold Guinness or two may bring you around. Anyway enjoy the race ! The best to you!
    Winning 1 race does not and will not change anything. And i don't have to skip to every other thread to see what you wrote because you write the same nonsense on every thread. Every member here knows what you will write (Max, Todt, Schumi, Rubens). Your F1 vocabulary and every post is limited to these 4 only. You cannot frame a single reply without mentioning either of these 4. I will pass on the Guinness and will suggest you do the same when you post anything on TSN.
    #KeepFightingMichael | #CiaoJules

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by vcs316 View Post
    Winning 1 race does not and will not change anything. And i don't have to skip to every other thread to see what you wrote because you write the same nonsense on every thread. Every member here knows what you will write (Max, Todt, Schumi, Rubens). Your F1 vocabulary and every post is limited to these 4 only. You cannot frame a single reply without mentioning either of these 4. I will pass on the Guinness and will suggest you do the same when you post anything on TSN.
    Winning one race will for sure change Crashvettles attitude. If it's Max ok he already won a few. So no big deal. Max flew through the air and still finished the race! Did you see that!!! And a podium for Charles as a result!!! Last place is ok! It's a Ferrari !! 105 F. Dubai. You are to be forgiven! That's hot!! 3 points and Charles will be up there with crashvettle . I don't remember Rubens being so bad. Todt did not cause Sebs last place finish, he did it on his own. That's 3, oh! Michael would not be proud of crashvettles last place. Charles is Ferrari's hope . Max is the future . It can't happen soon enough. Lewis didn't win, it was the car! Let me know if I left anything out. Stay cool , please! I need you to keep an eye on my posts! O K I can skip the Guinness for Peroni or Moretti !
    Last edited by Brembo; 16th July 2019 at 04:30.

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