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Thread: Todt proposes new ban on driver aids - anti-stall, telemetry & virtual garages

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    Todt proposes new ban on driver aids - anti-stall, telemetry & virtual garages

    Speaking in an exclusive interview for RaceFans, Todt outlined how he would ban innovations such as anti-stall, telemetry and virtual garages to increase unpredictability and create more entertaining races.
    We need to consider the list of all driver aids, said Todt, naming the cars anti-stall devices as one example of an aid which assists the drivers.

    Why do we have that? he asked. We want more opportunities for a driver to make a mistake. Eliminating anti-stall could create more problems for drivers at the start of races. Like happened when Michael [Schumacher] probably lost the championship in 98, pointed out Todt, who ran Schumachers Ferrari team at the time.

    Todt also highlighted the amount of data teams generate from the cars and the vast numbers of staff employed in the factories to problem real-time support during race weekends as examples of aids for he drivers which increase the predictability of races.

    All that we should get rid of, he said.

    We want races to be more unpredictable. If we want more unpredictability, we must get rid of telemetry. We must get rid of driver aids. We must get rid of 50 people in the factory waiting. Its what we need.

    The FIA president has also recently spoken up in favour of reintroducing refuelling, which was previously banned at the end of 2009 to improve safety and reduce costs. He told RaceFans this will satisfy the drivers demand for lighter cars. Currently teams have to carry a full race fuel allocation of up to 110kg from the start of a grand prix.

    I said lets consider if there is a complaint cars are too heavy, said Todt. If they are too heavy, lets reintroduce refuelling.

    They say its expensive, and I say look at the motorhomes, he added.
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    Drivers to meet FIA and stewards to discuss penalty controversies

    Formula 1 drivers will meet with the FIA and stewards to discuss how racing incidents should be policed following a series of controversial penalties.

    The outcomes of two of the last three F1 races have been shaped by penalty decisions which attracted widespread debate. Sebastian Vettel lost a potential victory in the Canadian Grand Prix due to a penalty, while the outcome of the Austrian Grand Prix was only settled hours after the chequered flag when the stewards cleared Max Verstappen following an incident investigation.
    Drivers have called for greater freedom to race without interference from stewards in the wake of the controversies. FIA president Jean Todt told RaceFans he has convened a meeting between representatives of the governing body, the stewards and drivers to take place in Geneva on July 23rd following the German Grand Prix.

    Todt is keen to give drivers freedom to race, but said the sport must be policed which he believes will inevitably attract some criticism.

    “If I say ‘OK, let them race’, in two races it’s such a wild situation people [say] ‘please do something’,” said Todt.

    “I’ve not [got] a magic [wand]. I think simply whatever is happening people will always try an angle to criticise and to be unhappy.

    “So in a way what we do is to answer to police the sport. We must make sure that it’s policed but of course if you do police, people are not always happy about the result of the policing.”

    Todt admitted that the trend towards greater use of asphalt run-offs at circuit had created new problems for stewards. “It’s the way modern circuits have been designed, contrarily to natural circuits,” he said.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vcs316 View Post
    Speaking in an exclusive interview for RaceFans, Todt outlined how he would ban innovations such as anti-stall, telemetry and virtual garages to increase unpredictability and create more entertaining races.
    “We need to consider the list of all driver aids,” said Todt, naming the cars anti-stall devices as one example of an aid which assists the drivers.

    “Why do we have that?” he asked. “We want more opportunities for a driver to make a mistake.” Eliminating anti-stall could create more problems for drivers at the start of races. “Like happened when Michael [Schumacher] probably lost the championship in ’98,” pointed out Todt, who ran Schumacher’s Ferrari team at the time.

    Todt also highlighted the amount of data teams generate from the cars and the vast numbers of staff employed in the factories to problem real-time support during race weekends as examples of ‘aids’ for he drivers which increase the predictability of races.

    “All that we should get rid of,” he said.

    “We want races to be more unpredictable. If we want more unpredictability, we must get rid of telemetry. We must get rid of driver aids. We must get rid of 50 people in the factory waiting. It’s what we need.”

    The FIA president has also recently spoken up in favour of reintroducing refuelling, which was previously banned at the end of 2009 to improve safety and reduce costs. He told RaceFans this will satisfy the drivers’ demand for lighter cars. Currently teams have to carry a full race fuel allocation of up to 110kg from the start of a grand prix.

    “I said let’s consider if there is a complaint cars are too heavy,” said Todt. “If they are too heavy, let’s reintroduce refuelling.

    “They say it’s expensive, and I say look at the motorhomes,” he added.
    If he wants such unpredictability, then why don’t he propose tyre manufacturer for more pit stops & remove DRS.
    With 1 pit stop every race it’s a bore fest.
    "I've always believed that you should never, ever give up and you should always keep fighting even when there's only a slightest chance " : - Michael Schumacher

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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    If he wants such unpredictability, then why don’t he propose tyre manufacturer for more pit stops & remove DRS.
    With 1 pit stop every race it’s a bore fest.
    Because DRS was also suggested by teams to "spice" up racing. Pirelli initially had very high degradation tyres which resulted in tyres bursting at high speeds and they were made durable for safety reasons.

    Its a very difficult decision which will not make everyone happy. The average age of a F1 follower is 40 years! The sport has failed to attract new audience and the only ones watching are the ones who have been following for ages.

    The rule book for 2020 has to be thought thru very clearly and also factor in measures to attract new audiences.

    Today is a Super Sunday in the UK: Wimbledon Men's Single Finals | Cricket World Cup Finals (England vs New Zealand| British Grand Prix

    If they release viewing data just for today, F1 will have the least globally as well as in the UK.
    Last edited by vcs316; 14th July 2019 at 11:27.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vcs316 View Post
    Because DRS was also suggested by teams to "spice" up racing. Pirelli initially had very high degradation tyres which resulted in tyres bursting at high speeds and they were made durable for safety reasons.

    Its a very difficult decision which will not make everyone happy. The average age of a F1 follower is 40 years! The sport has failed to attract new audience and the only ones watching are the ones who have been following for ages.

    The rule book for 2020 has to be thought thru very clearly and also factor in measures to attract new audiences.

    Today is a Super Sunday in the UK: Wimbledon Men's Single Finals | Cricket World Cup | British Grand Prix

    If they release viewing data just for today, F1 will have the least globally as well as in the UK.

    This is gonna have adverse effect.
    "I've always believed that you should never, ever give up and you should always keep fighting even when there's only a slightest chance " : - Michael Schumacher

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    Quote Originally Posted by vcs316 View Post
    Because DRS was also suggested by teams to "spice" up racing. Pirelli initially had very high degradation tyres which resulted in tyres bursting at high speeds and they were made durable for safety reasons.

    Its a very difficult decision which will not make everyone happy. The average age of a F1 follower is 40 years! The sport has failed to attract new audience and the only ones watching are the ones who have been following for ages.

    The rule book for 2020 has to be thought thru very clearly and also factor in measures to attract new audiences.

    Today is a Super Sunday in the UK: Wimbledon Men's Single Finals | Cricket World Cup | British Grand Prix

    If they release viewing data just for today, F1 will have the least globally as well as in the UK.
    I am looking for that one, as it can bring me joy!!!! Forza Novak!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by stefa View Post
    I am looking for that one, as it can bring me joy!!!! Forza Novak!!!!
    I used to watch long back & huge RFed, RNadal fan. When their prime passed, stopped watching.
    In cricket, when India lost to NZ stopped watching.

    Now F1, till what extent it drags me need to see. At least Lec is giving me a hope to watch
    "I've always believed that you should never, ever give up and you should always keep fighting even when there's only a slightest chance " : - Michael Schumacher

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    Todt proposes new ban on “driver aids” - anti-stall, telemetry & virtual garages
    That would be great.
    "Leave the gun. Take the cannoli."

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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    I used to watch long back & huge RFed, RNadal fan. When their prime passed, stopped watching.
    In cricket, when India lost to NZ stopped watching.

    Now F1, till what extent it drags me need to see. At least Lec is giving me a hope to watch
    Its Federer vs Djokovic today. And considering how the semis went Federer vs Nadal, i would not say they are past their prime.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vcs316 View Post
    Its Federer vs Djokovic today. And considering how the semis went Federer vs Nadal, i would not say they are past their prime.
    Ofcourse what I mean to say is I’m not watching that frequently when Djokovic started to win ahead of those two above.
    If F1 is boring today, i would definitely switch to that. As you said RFed in final.
    "I've always believed that you should never, ever give up and you should always keep fighting even when there's only a slightest chance " : - Michael Schumacher

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    1 stop race is the biggest joke in F1. Closes every possible strategic maneuver.

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    Bring back refuelling, different strategies always makes races interesting
    I prefer to beat them on Sunday -Fernando Alonso, Press Conference Korean GP 2010

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rishu View Post
    Bring back refuelling, different strategies always makes races interesting
    On air SKY sports, so called pundits those commentators were opposing this option.

    Personally I would like bringing back refuelling.
    "I've always believed that you should never, ever give up and you should always keep fighting even when there's only a slightest chance " : - Michael Schumacher

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    IMO, the main problem with F1 now is the lack of competition.
    It has got nothing to do with anti stall and telemetry. Merc is not dominating the sport because of any of those things Todt mention.

    What makes a great season is when you have a real championship battle.
    Some random unpredictability isn't going to matter if there are no competition to begin with.

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    F1 is boring today from the day (2014) Merc was given what they want.

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    Todt has to start out first and foremost with Lewis' car. According to most Ferrari fans his Merc is equipped to drive itself! That has to be illegal. In WDC, the D stands for driver.

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    If they truly want spectacle, unpredictably and more room for driver errors, replace the semi-automatic gearbox with manual gears and foot operated clutch.

    Also, no more power steering, drive-by-wire and other driver aids.

    Then driver skill will be able to compensate more for lower car performance as well.

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    Mansell - 'Todays driver will never know what a proper F1 car feels like'

    1992 World Champion Nigel Mansell has said that ‘todays drivers will never know what a proper F1 car feels like’, claiming that the cars of the 80’s/90’s was the peak of Formula 1.

    The Brits Formula 1 career started at Lotus, before a move to Williams for a few years in the late 80’s, then to Ferrari, back to Williams and signing off his F1 career with a few races at McLaren.

    Mansell, who won his only Championship with Williams in 1992 believes that it was not those cars that were the best, but the cars from the 80’s with the super-powerful turbo engines.

    He said to FIA’s Auto magazine: "Formula 1 will never get back to that.

    "Driving those turbo cars was the most exhilarating, frightening thing that you could do in your life.

    "The (1987) Williams FW11B -- nothing comes close to that car, nothing in the world.

    “Really, today's drivers will never know what a proper F1 car feels like.

    "In qualifying you literally had up to 1,500 horsepower -- it's reputed that BMW had more.

    “And to have wheel spin in sixth gear down the straight, at 175 or 180mph -- you cannot put that into words as a driver.

    "At every single corner you came to, the car was literally trying to kill you.”

    https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/42096...els-like-.html
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    That last sentence says it all! No team or fan want's to watch a race thinking about their driver living through each race corner. We all need to be thankful for the new technology just on that thought. What F-1 has come to safety wise is " Proper! "

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    That last sentence says it all! No team or fan want's to watch a race thinking about their driver living through each race corner. We all need to be thankful for the new technology just on that thought. What F-1 has come to safety wise is " Proper! "
    Actually, as it always goes, truth lies in the middle, yes, of course safety matters, no, I don't want a sport where job is done by the car and the driver is an operator. I want a sport where the driver matters.
    "If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve

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    Merc has the car bringing the operator driver to the WDC. You can't have one without the other. Even though Charles did operate his car to a near win, the car mattered more, unfortunately.

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    I recon using three tire manufacturers
    ,refuelling,auto gearboxes and no power steering,also racetracks with no runoff areas,gravel and grass will do the trick.

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    Bring back Refueling and more tyre brands. So sick of Pirelli. Get rid of this Hybrid crap.

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    Which drivers will benefit or lose from this? Not sure it will make a difference

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    Better tire choices for better made tires sounds very beneficial esp. if the choices are made by team members who actually know what their doing each race, each track and so on. There should be a tire made " Al Dente ! " just for Ferrari. Over medium but not hard ! If going back in time would help, a T car would be great again!
    Last edited by Brembo; 28th July 2019 at 08:05.

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    How about allowing more free-testing so drivers can actually test the development of the car on a circuit instead of relying on simulations which may or may not work at the next race?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JPZ View Post
    How about allowing more free-testing so drivers can actually test the development of the car on a circuit instead of relying on simulations which may or may not work at the next race?
    This is one of the biggest reason why teams aren't progressing/developing fast enough. F1 is the only sport where teams are forbidden to test/practice before a race weekend. No other sport - football, cricket, tennis, baseball prevents teams to test/practice before the big game.

    Unless you can test the updates, how do you know they are going to deliver. Simulation just doesn't cut it. And then you arrive at the track on Friday and data shows the updates don't work..
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    Quote Originally Posted by vcs316 View Post
    This is one of the biggest reason why teams aren't progressing/developing fast enough. F1 is the only sport where teams are forbidden to test/practice before a race weekend. No other sport - football, cricket, tennis, baseball prevents teams to test/practice before the big game.

    Unless you can test the updates, how do you know they are going to deliver. Simulation just doesn't cut it. And then you arrive at the track on Friday and data shows the updates don't work..
    F-1 has 3 practices as we all know. If they add a weeks free testing in there , the car won't make it through the race. All those other sports just throw the ball away and play the big game with new ones.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    F-1 has 3 practices as we all know. If they add a weeks free testing in there , the car won't make it through the race. All those other sports just throw the ball away and play the big game with new ones.
    Teams do not use race engines or gear boxes during FP1 & FP2. If they add a weeks free testing in there, no team is going to run their race engine or gear box. It is same as every sport, test & practice till you get it right and arrive at the track on race day to perform the best you can.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vcs316 View Post
    Teams do not use race engines or gear boxes during FP1 & FP2. If they add a weeks free testing in there, no team is going to run their race engine or gear box. It is same as every sport, test & practice till you get it right and arrive at the track on race day to perform the best you can.
    O K got it. I just think that the way drivers talk during the after race interviews ; that the car didn't suit them. And name what wasn't the way they wanted the race car, to be set up for the race. Free testing on the next race track would for sure be a big help.

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