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Thread: Who is the greatest of all time?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    The point “ Ham beat Alonso many times” continues for long time. But still both are locked on same points at the end of the season even with favouritism to Ham from McLaren during 2nd part of the season.
    If u look at such equations, kimi did beat these two in 2007 then. Then why you aren’t considering kimi in the same of level of Ham then? No it doesn’t work out that way.

    Ham in avg car, didn’t have the same performance level of Alonso or MS.
    Yes he did deliver great races or poles but most of the times he’s pretty lucky. I would say like 30% of wins were down to his luck and bad luck/mistake from leading car.
    Ham didn’t have the same performance level as Alonso? I think you missed where they shared the same team....

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Real View Post
    I was a fan of Montoya, but he was fast and incredible but he missed the total package. His 2003 season was incredible, but he had a couple of races where he wend missing. Mika was more complete then Montoya, but missed the ultimate speed.
    Michael wend up against a bigger spread of talent, but Hamilton wend up against better talent in better cars.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    Michael went against Senna and Alonso also....not sure how you can really say Max is better than Montoya or Mika though both were very very fast drivers and would probably beat Max easily. You can also see Michael went up against a much bigger spread of talent than Lewis ever will.
    I wouldn’t say Max is better then Mika or JPM but neither would I say he drove against a bigger spread of talent either, the fore mentioned senna and Prost ended their careers very early into MS career

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by evo_spook View Post
    Ham didn’t have the same performance level as Alonso? I think you missed where they shared the same team....
    My comment included when they are in same team well.
    Apart from that when Alonso left, he did drive avg car or abv avg car to almost 2 titles.

    If he’s so strong then would have won 2007 title right ? 2008 championship won by 1pt? Massa too was strong.
    So can we compare him with kimi & massa?
    Last edited by nani_s23; 24th July 2019 at 19:31.
    "I've always believed that you should never, ever give up and you should always keep fighting even when there's only a slightest chance " : - Michael Schumacher

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by evo_spook View Post
    I see a lot worse posts on here, that are simple absurd, that are allowed without comment. Eg: someone is seriously saying that Charles is now 2nd best driver in F1 and better then Lewis, seriously.... being a fan is great but not when it impairs judgement.
    You should out this sick maniac!
    Last edited by Giallo 550; 24th July 2019 at 20:14.


    Disappointed Since 2010

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by evo_spook View Post
    I wouldn’t say Max is better then Mika or JPM but neither would I say he drove against a bigger spread of talent either, the fore mentioned senna and Prost ended their careers very early into MS career
    MS fought with Prost, JV, Senna, Mika, Alonso, DC, Montoya. He won over them at certain phases even with not a superior car.
    With the current grid there’s no such competition at all. Lewis had it easy last 4 titles & current title too.
    "I've always believed that you should never, ever give up and you should always keep fighting even when there's only a slightest chance " : - Michael Schumacher

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    MS fought with Prost, JV, Senna, Mika, Alonso, DC, Montoya. He won over them at certain phases even with not a superior car.
    With the current grid there’s no such competition at all. Lewis had it easy last 4 titles & current title too.
    Had he not suffered that technical problem at Jerez, he would've won the most unfancied title in the history of the sport that year. Alonso nearly did the same in 2012. Hamilton has never gotten close to anything like that and his attempts at bigging himself up last season when evidently his car was faster in race trim was rather pathetic.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by evo_spook View Post
    I wouldn’t say Max is better then Mika or JPM but neither would I say he drove against a bigger spread of talent either, the fore mentioned senna and Prost ended their careers very early into MS career
    Michael raced with much more talented drivers than Lewis will, saying otherwise is just stupid.
    Forza Ferrari

  9. #39
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    Kimi P4 and never had a dominant car, like all 3 ahead him. Not bad.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    My comment included when they are in same team well.
    Apart from that when Alonso left, he did drive avg car or abv avg car to almost 2 titles.

    If he’s so strong then would have won 2007 title right ? 2008 championship won by 1pt? Massa too was strong.
    So can we compare him with kimi & massa?
    And the Mclaren was arguably the faster car for most of 2007 and 2008. Raikkonen beat him in 2007 and in 2008 Hamilton won by 1 point over Massa after passing an 'ailing' Toyota driven by Glock...

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    Michael raced with much more talented drivers than Lewis will, saying otherwise is just stupid.
    +1000
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    Today's F-1 drivers are not as talented as Michael and his competitors for sure. But the drivers up front today all seem to be about equal talent wise, with nothing but doubt with tires and so on, which is not their fault . So that was then ; this is now. And F-1 has a top driver now , who most fans say can't drive. But for his car he'd be no where. I do believe the rules today also make it different perhaps say tougher today's drivers.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    Today's F-1 drivers are not as talented as Michael and his competitors for sure. But the drivers up front today all seem to be about equal talent wise, with nothing but doubt with tires and so on, which is not their fault . So that was then ; this is now. And F-1 has a top driver now , who most fans say can't drive. But for his car he'd be no where. I do believe the rules today also make it different perhaps say tougher today's drivers.
    I disagree. The amount of telemetry and technology assistance which drivers have at their disposal today make it extremely easy for them to manage their cars and races. Strat 5, right front temp low, fuel mix 3 etc. were unheard of in 2009 and before. Reliability (engine, hydraulics) is almost bullet proof with most of the cars making it to the chequered flag.
    #KeepFightingMichael | #CiaoJules

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    Quote Originally Posted by vcs316 View Post
    I disagree. The amount of telemetry and technology assistance which drivers have at their disposal today make it extremely easy for them to manage their cars and races. Strat 5, right front temp low, fuel mix 3 etc. were unheard of in 2009 and before. Reliability (engine, hydraulics) is almost bullet proof with most of the cars making it to the chequered flag.
    Exactly
    "I've always believed that you should never, ever give up and you should always keep fighting even when there's only a slightest chance " : - Michael Schumacher

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by vcs316 View Post
    I disagree. The amount of telemetry and technology assistance which drivers have at their disposal today make it extremely easy for them to manage their cars and races. Strat 5, right front temp low, fuel mix 3 etc. were unheard of in 2009 and before. Reliability (engine, hydraulics) is almost bullet proof with most of the cars making it to the chequered flag.
    What happened to Charles' car when he was about to win that race? Reliable engine? Easy for today's drivers and the team to manage their tires ? Perfect down force when needed! The cars that don't make it to the checkered flag are caused by driver mistakes, not able to handle their cars on the turns etc. The cars are harder to handle, there's too much tech. and telemetry involved today . How about all the FIA interference ! Ask Dan about the bullet proof rides he's had ! DNFs up the nose! Just look where Ferrari is today with all their bullet proof cars.

  16. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    What happened to Charles' car when he was about to win that race? Reliable engine? Easy for today's drivers and the team to manage their tires ? Perfect down force when needed! The cars that don't make it to the checkered flag are caused by driver mistakes, not able to handle their cars on the turns etc. The cars are harder to handle, there's too much tech. and telemetry involved today . How about all the FIA interference ! Ask Dan about the bullet proof rides he's had ! DNFs up the nose! Just look where Ferrari is today with all their bullet proof cars.
    Reliability is ALMOST bulletproof. Check the %DNF we have had across teams in the past 5 years vs %DNF in pre-2009. You are talking about Charles losing 1 race due to engine? Think what happened in Japan 2006!

    Anyway, you are right. The cars are hard to handle today vs pre-2009
    #KeepFightingMichael | #CiaoJules

  17. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    Today's F-1 drivers are not as talented as Michael and his competitors for sure. But the drivers up front today all seem to be about equal talent wise, with nothing but doubt with tires and so on, which is not their fault . So that was then ; this is now. And F-1 has a top driver now , who most fans say can't drive. But for his car he'd be no where. I do believe the rules today also make it different perhaps say tougher today's drivers.
    If you're talking about Bottas, I'd say he's an upper midfield driver. He'd do alright versus Hülkenberg or Räikkönen in the same car, but not much more than that.

    As for the modern cars, of course they're way easier to drive than the 90's cars Schumacher and Häkkinen mastered and obliterated their opposition in; just look at the first half of Michael's 1998 Suzuka pole lap:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciuffQX-TC8

    Mika's pole lap in Spain the same year looked really ragged too:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQ-QOGW-KQs

    Today, pole laps look like cruise holidays in comparison. The slightest mistake in line just scrubs off speed, but never really threatens to have the driver truly run off the circuit. Gaining time on the others is virtually impossible, it's all about hitting the exact millisecond line in each turn and not lose time. Back then, you could actually gain time purely by attacking corners harder and making it work.
    Last edited by Tifoso Svedese; 25th July 2019 at 14:08.

  18. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by vcs316 View Post
    Reliability is ALMOST bulletproof. Check the %DNF we have had across teams in the past 5 years vs %DNF in pre-2009. You are talking about Charles losing 1 race due to engine? Think what happened in Japan 2006!

    Anyway, you are right. The cars are hard to handle today vs pre-2009
    I'm glad to see you agree ! Charles lost to an engine prob. To you it was just 1 race, That was going to be " The big win ! " for him and the team. Think about what happened and still happening now; 2019 with every race that Seb can't seem to get through with his much easier car to drive! Mistakes and crahsing ! He blames himself for not adjusting to the easy to drive car. He's not a 21 yr' old rookie, he's a 4x WDC boy. At least the tire problems in the past are long gone. Today's F-1 is a breeze tire wise! Pirelli made it a dream for today's drivers.
    Last edited by Brembo; 26th July 2019 at 04:27.

  19. #49
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    [QUOTE=Tifoso Svedese;1014137

    As for the modern cars, of course they're way easier to drive than the 90's cars Schumacher and Häkkinen mastered and obliterated their opposition in; just look at the first half of Michael's 1998 Suzuka pole lap:

    Schumy mastered and obliterated his opposition mostly with his driving skill, not the car's doing. Going back : 1997 Jerez, lap 48 ! deliberately knocking Villeneve out. 1994, Austrailia , last race , he knocked Damon hill out ! Today's drivers just don't got what it takes ! It's not all about the new cars.

  20. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    I'm glad to see you agree ! Charles lost to an engine prob. To you it was just 1 race, That was going to be " The big win ! " for him and the team. Think about what happened and still happening now; 2019 with every race that Seb can't seem to get through with his much easier car to drive! Mistakes and crahsing ! He blames himself for not adjusting to the easy to drive car. He's not a 21 yr' old rookie, he's a 4x WDC boy. At least the tire problems in the past are long gone. Today's F-1 is a breeze tire wise! Pirelli made it a dream for today's drivers.
    You are right again I agree. 100%
    #KeepFightingMichael | #CiaoJules

  21. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by vcs316 View Post
    You are right again I agree. 100%
    There I was, telling you to stay cool in Dubai ! It reached 100 F. degrees twice in the last week here in NYC ! I read where it's going to be hot as hell in Germany race time.

  22. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    I read where it's going to be hot as hell in Germany race time.
    The Merc had trouble in FP1 with over heating but again it was Bottas' car!!!! Maybe "as hot as hell" might be to our advantage!!!!


    Forza Jules

  23. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post

    As for the modern cars, of course they're way easier to drive than the 90's cars Schumacher and Häkkinen mastered and obliterated their opposition in; just look at the first half of Michael's 1998 Suzuka pole lap:

    Schumy mastered and obliterated his opposition mostly with his driving skill, not the car's doing. Going back : 1997 Jerez, lap 48 ! deliberately knocking Villeneve out. 1994, Austrailia , last race , he knocked Damon hill out ! Today's drivers just don't got what it takes ! It's not all about the new cars.
    Schumacher was banned for 2 races in 1994. Otherwise the championship wouldn't have gone to the last race.

    Also, all his victories in the 1996, 1997 and 1998 cars.

  24. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPZ View Post
    Schumacher was banned for 2 races in 1994. Otherwise the championship wouldn't have gone to the last race.

    Also, all his victories in the 1996, 1997 and 1998 cars.
    It was much more than that in 1994.

    Schumi was also disqualified in 2 other races as well.

    Damian Hill got 40 points in those 4 races!!! He finished the season with 91 points.

    In other words Schumi's 12 race season beat Hill's 16 race season....

    It was not a championship but FIA made it into one.

  25. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    There I was, telling you to stay cool in Dubai ! It reached 100 F. degrees twice in the last week here in NYC ! I read where it's going to be hot as hell in Germany race time.
    You are on a roll. Right again . 100%. Brilliant insights.
    #KeepFightingMichael | #CiaoJules

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    We all know reverse is important in a car transmission, reverse is also great with regards to psychology ! As you say, brilliant insights ! Ferrari needs the win !!

  27. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    We all know reverse is important in a car transmission, reverse is also great with regards to psychology ! As you say, brilliant insights ! Ferrari needs the win !!
    Amazing. Nothing gets by your sharp eye and mind. Right again! 100%.
    #KeepFightingMichael | #CiaoJules

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    Quote Originally Posted by DelMar View Post
    It was much more than that in 1994.

    Schumi was also disqualified in 2 other races as well.

    Damian Hill got 40 points in those 4 races!!! He finished the season with 91 points.

    In other words Schumi's 12 race season beat Hill's 16 race season....

    It was not a championship but FIA made it into one.
    It's almost as is the FIA were trying to help a British driver win the world championship...

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    Quote Originally Posted by JPZ View Post
    It's almost as is the FIA were trying to help a British driver win the world championship...
    Well, they seem to have recent form...

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    Taki Inoue /end thread.
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