Belgian GP Spa-Francorchamps - Race

[bondilad]

Yeah that would be awesome. But this year Ham has never lost back to back races. Having said that, Merc have 'only' won 2 out of the last 5.
I think we need to lock out the front row again, if Lewis starts P2 he'll have a very good chance due to the tyre situation.

If we somehow manage to lockout the front row we have a good chance to get another win. But keeping a 1-2 is hard with Hamilton around. Let's see.

[Vittorio]

Well to bad vitorio I think he is Stella.I love it when Lewis rubs Ferrari the wrong way with stunning victories.Lewis is saying come on catch me if you can.Thank God he has the ability to motivate all teams to sucseed love his work got it Vic you just keep doing what you do best mate.

Jesus, the first sentence and you manage to make three mistakes! It's "too bad" not "to bad," my name is Vittorio with a double 't' and who the hell is Stella? It's stellar, you nitwit.

Your fawning of Hamilton on a Ferrari fan site is nauseating, to say the least. You're about as much a true tifoso as I am Mongolian. You would be so much better suited to a Hamilton/Mercedes fan club, you really would.

Lost your way and found yourself on a Ferrari fan site, is it? Poor snookums.

[Vittorio]

we get it, you're a Hammy lover....why don't you do all of us a favor and join one of his forums......

we'd all be better off without your NON sense posts on here.....

Not to mention his non-existent spelling and grammar...

[Lesky]

My analysis:

I don't think our race pace was that bad on the softs. Perhaps we would do better in races where the race starts on mediums, and we can have more laps on softs? But yes, the medium tyre pace is abysmal. The tyres get harder and Merc gets faster.

DRS is way too strong (As Martin Brundle alluded to, and Albon said accidently). It should be calibrated per each track. And honestly, you don't need it at Spa and Monza. (real race tracks)

I understand the tyre performace is such that it falls off a cliff after X laps, but how much of the final laps was due to the performance drop, and how much was it due to Charles managing the race? If the performance was dropping off, Charles was awfully calm. And if he was managing the race, that's really good race craft. He's improved so many areas of his craft, including qualifying and the race. He is becoming quite the all around racer.

And today confirms, atleast for me, that Alonso wins 2018 in the Ferrari, and possibly 2017.

Good post. I agreed with all of it. But how did today confirm the last conclusion you made about Alonso? I do not see any connection to that in your post.

[erikejw]

I think there's a lack of direction in the design department. The 2017 cars was really good aerodynamically, yes it had drag but it also had most downforce. Ferrari dominated all the high-downforce, aero-inefficient tracks that year.

But in 2018 they have gone different direction, instead of developing on their already very good 2017 car.

And now this year they have gone another direction, and by doing so they've lost all the good developments of previous years. Mercedes with their low-rake-long-wheelbase concept, used to be tyre eater. But they stick to the plan and kept developing the concept, clearly there was a lot of potential. And now we are seeing the end result, a car that's not only look after its tyres well, it's simply unmatched in low-medium speed corners.

So I don't think 2020 will be different, Mercedes will still have the dominant car like this years. I think Ferrari should forget 2020 and focus on 2021 from now on.

I agree on this.
Red Bull has their design philosophy and stay with it, and refines it year by year.

Mercedes is doing the same, using their earlier success as a baseline and refines it, no revolutions, perfects the imperfections.

But we make to harsh direction changes and needs to start from scratch with no prior knowledge every season, then we ditch it by the end. We nred to play the long game better.

[dfunk257]

And it's business as usual on Sky. Hype up Ferrari to make Hamilton's win seem god-like.

The media has also done this all year along with Toto and co. And i am so sick of it. One of the reasons why i havent been able to watch F1 as much this year. Ive never witnessed a season where so much bull****** has been spoken.

[Senna4Ever]

Nothing tastes sweeter than a Ferrari victory when you're in Italy on Holiday
Bravo Bravo Bravissimo

:)

[512 TR]

As for "dummy" pitstops. I personally don't understand the fuss about it. Sure, it looks silly and might be against the spirit of the rules (ethics) but let them do it. Let teams do it if they want to. If anyone gets fooled by it then that says more about the one that got fooled than the fooler who did it. You have to have your own strategy to begin with. If Merc did a "dummy" yesterday, it actually lost them the win. Ferrari will always take a 1-4 over a 2-3. First because it's a GP win for the history books and second, because it's more points (37 vs 33). If Merc did it, they just fooled themselves.

[Greig]

That is exactly what Sky people says. Kindly enlighten the world on the drivers who don't push hard and always gives up. All drivers in F1 have something to achieve and they all push hard and never give up.

Bottas

[JPZ]

The media has also done this all year along with Toto and co. And i am so sick of it. One of the reasons why i havent been able to watch F1 as much this year. Ive never witnessed a season where so much bull****** has been spoken.

To be fair, unlike Williams and McLaren, Ferrari have almost always been somewhat competitive and fighting near the top. I'm actually glad the media have never completely written them off.

Since 2000, Ferrari haven't experienced a long-term collapse like those teams.

[Cavallino]

Good post. I agreed with all of it. But how did today confirm the last conclusion you made about Alonso? I do not see any connection to that in your post.

Basically I'm starting to think Vettel is overrated. And Alonso could have won it.

I just want Ferrari to win. And I like both our drivers. But I liked Alonso too (after 2007) :)

[Cavallino]

To be fair, unlike Williams and McLaren, Ferrari have almost always been somewhat competitive and fighting near the top. I'm actually glad the media have never completely written them off.

Since 2000, Ferrari haven't experienced a long-term collapse like those teams.

That's a pretty low bar.

[Cavallino]

I agree on this.
Red Bull has their design philosophy and stay with it, and refines it year by year.

Mercedes is doing the same, using their earlier success as a baseline and refines it, no revolutions, perfects the imperfections.

But we make to harsh direction changes and needs to start from scratch with no prior knowledge every season, then we ditch it by the end. We nred to play the long game better.

In the early 2000s, The F2001, F2002, F2003GA, F2004 were all evolutions of each other. That's what we need to get back to.

Unless, they can find some huge innovation, like a double decker diffuser that brings in huge downforce gains without a drag penalty. Then we have to completely abandon this design.

[Cavallino]

As for "dummy" pitstops. I personally don't understand the fuss about it. Sure, it looks silly and might be against the spirit of the rules (ethics) but let them do it. Let teams do it if they want to. If anyone gets fooled by it then that says more about the one that got fooled than the fooler who did it. You have to have your own strategy to begin with. If Merc did a "dummy" yesterday, it actually lost them the win. Ferrari will always take a 1-4 over a 2-3. First because it's a GP win for the history books and second, because it's more points (37 vs 33). If Merc did it, they just fooled themselves.

Why is Mercedes the only team that does?

But what I will say is, I think we should stick to our own strategy more, and stop covering everyone elses' strategy calls. Because you simply can't cover everybody. In Austria, we covered Mercedes, but we couldn't cover Max. So we can't cover Mercedes, and whatever stupid stuff Max wants to do.

I don't think Ham would have passed Vettel on softs, it would have cost Ham time, just like it did later. So what I am proposing is that we double stack like Mercedes. Bring Vet in the same lap as Leclerc. A 1-2 was possible. If we stop compromising our strategy for dummy pitstops and to cover everyone else.

[JPZ]

That's a pretty low bar.

Who would have thought Williams and McLaren would have fallen so low?

[512 TR]

Why is Mercedes the only team that does?

Yes, it seems Merc is doing it more than any other team these last few years? Why? Does it fool anyone? Maybe it has sometimes. Do they really need it? Wouldn't they win in the long run anyway? I pretty sure they would in this forrmula. So why do they do it? I don't know.

But what I will say is, I think we should stick to our own strategy more, and stop covering everyone elses' strategy calls. Because you simply can't cover everybody. In Austria, we covered Mercedes, but we couldn't cover Max. So we can't cover Mercedes, and whatever stupid stuff Max wants to do.

You have to start there, with your own strategy. Sure, there should always be room for a plan B, C or even D in any given situation but you have to have plan A, which you believe in. That should not be able to change because some Merc mechanics have ants in their pants. In reality, it's all done by computers since many years. Tyre wear, fuel load, the life of a compound, it's all calculated when you should pit. The only unknown is the driver and his ability on a given day and the weather at a given time.

I don't think Ham would have passed Vettel on softs, it would have cost Ham time, just like it did later. So what I am proposing is that we double stack like Mercedes. Bring Vet in the same lap as Leclerc. A 1-2 was possible. If we stop compromising our strategy for dummy pitstops and to cover everyone else.

I re-watched that moment in the race. IF Merc did a "dummy" and fooled Ferrari to bring in Seb early, it actually lost them the win. Because after Seb's pitstop he was the fastest man on track when the top three were going slower and slower. So in the end when the the top three pitted he was ahead and could slow down Lewis (and Bottas). Since he knew he had to stop again that was his job, to slow down the Mercs. Had Merc not done the "dummy" he might have pitted later for a one-stopper (like Charles) and he probably would have been passed by Lewis and Bottas, but at the different moment in the race. A moment where he would be closer to Charles and because of that Merc might have got Charles too. Those 4-5 laps where Lewis couldn't get by were crucial and Merc might have brought it upon themselves. That's my analysys. Which is pretty funny if it's true. Like a Roadrunner cartoon.

[evo_spook]

Yes, it seems Merc is doing it more than any other team these last few years? Why? Does it fool anyone? Maybe it has sometimes. Do they really need it? Wouldn't they win in the long run anyway? I pretty sure they would in this forrmula. So why do they do it? I don't know.



You have to start there, with your own strategy. Sure, there should always be room for a plan B, C or even D in any given situation but you have to have plan A, which you believe in. That should not be able to change because some Merc mechanics have ants in their pants. In reality, it's all done by computers since many years. Tyre wear, fuel load, the life of a compound, it's all calculated when you should pit. The only unknown is the driver and his ability on a given day and the weather at a given time.



I re-watched that moment in the race. IF Merc did a "dummy" and fooled Ferrari to bring in Seb early, it actually lost them the win. Because after Seb's pitstop he was the fastest man on track when the top three were going slower and slower. So in the end when the the top three pitted he was ahead and could slow down Lewis (and Bottas). Since he knew he had to stop again that was his job, to slow down the Mercs. Had Merc not done the "dummy" he might have pitted later for a one-stopper (like Charles) and he probably would have been passed by Lewis and Bottas, but at the different moment in the race. A moment where he would be closer to Charles and because of that Merc might have got Charles too. Those 4-5 laps where Lewis couldn't get by were crucial and Merc might have brought it upon themselves. That's my analysys. Which is pretty funny if it's true. Like a Roadrunner cartoon.

It could have being they was bringing one of their drivers in but Vettel pitted on that lap, you might gain doing an over or undercut, but the exact same has no benefit, so Merc cancelled their pit stop.

[Tony]

Can we keep this civil please? Name calling is unnecessary...

[Cavallino]

It could have being they was bringing one of their drivers in but Vettel pitted on that lap, you might gain doing an over or undercut, but the exact same has no benefit, so Merc cancelled their pit stop.

i think the argument is, that the dummy pit stop is what prompted Ferrari to bring in Vettel.

[Cavallino]

Yes, it seems Merc is doing it more than any other team these last few years? Why? Does it fool anyone? Maybe it has sometimes. Do they really need it? Wouldn't they win in the long run anyway? I pretty sure they would in this forrmula. So why do they do it? I don't know.



You have to start there, with your own strategy. Sure, there should always be room for a plan B, C or even D in any given situation but you have to have plan A, which you believe in. That should not be able to change because some Merc mechanics have ants in their pants. In reality, it's all done by computers since many years. Tyre wear, fuel load, the life of a compound, it's all calculated when you should pit. The only unknown is the driver and his ability on a given day and the weather at a given time.



I re-watched that moment in the race. IF Merc did a "dummy" and fooled Ferrari to bring in Seb early, it actually lost them the win. Because after Seb's pitstop he was the fastest man on track when the top three were going slower and slower. So in the end when the the top three pitted he was ahead and could slow down Lewis (and Bottas). Since he knew he had to stop again that was his job, to slow down the Mercs. Had Merc not done the "dummy" he might have pitted later for a one-stopper (like Charles) and he probably would have been passed by Lewis and Bottas, but at the different moment in the race. A moment where he would be closer to Charles and because of that Merc might have got Charles too. Those 4-5 laps where Lewis couldn't get by were crucial and Merc might have brought it upon themselves. That's my analysys. Which is pretty funny if it's true. Like a Roadrunner cartoon.

if you're saying that it would be in Merc's benefit to pit earlier, and force Ferrari into a longer stint on the mediums. I agree.

Because you either have to pit or be undercut. The question is, once behind, could Ferrari mount a challenge on medium tyres. idk. probably not.

[evo_spook]

i think the argument is, that the dummy pit stop is what prompted Ferrari to bring in Vettel.

mmmm, maybe but i thought they had already committed, happened very quick.

I don't mind if they do it or not, just clarify if allowed or not and then stick to it.

[da_one]

I agree on this.
Red Bull has their design philosophy and stay with it, and refines it year by year.

Mercedes is doing the same, using their earlier success as a baseline and refines it, no revolutions, perfects the imperfections.

But we make to harsh direction changes and needs to start from scratch with no prior knowledge every season, then we ditch it by the end. We nred to play the long game better.

That's what happens when a team is full of internal problems, politics and limited freedom of movement. I mentioned in the other thread that no amount of fund infusion can solve Ferrari's woes if the same working environment persists.

We have let go of quality guys who are now thriving in rival teams, namely Mercedes. We need to overhaul how things get done in the factory. We need strong leaders who can instill a winning culture at Ferrari. It's been awhile since they've won both titles but nothing can be fixed overnight. So enough of the blame game, enough of the internal politics and start working on a common goal and success will follow.

[512 TR]

if you're saying that it would be in Merc's benefit to pit earlier, and force Ferrari into a longer stint on the mediums. I agree.

Because you either have to pit or be undercut. The question is, once behind, could Ferrari mount a challenge on medium tyres. idk. probably not.

Could be the reason, yes. But in my opinion it's no so much having to do with actual compounds (soft, medium, hard) but rather the fact that at the end of stints Merc just work the "special tyres" better. As the laps go by they, Merc, are faster. So if they can push Ferrari (or Red Bull) out of the small window we still can operate in, then that is to their benefit. So did they pull a "dummy" around lap 15 and did that trigger bringing in Seb early? I think they did. I think they pulled a "dummy" and it backfired. I have only access to the world TV feed, so that's my source material. If someone else has another source from the race that shows other angles, please upload it.

Another thing. Look at the short conversation between Lewis and Mekies in the cool-down room. Lewis knew it backfired. Charles on the couch, Bottas with his back to the camera. That moment.

[Brembo]

I total support you, why must they always use every opportunity to talk bad about this guy. I wonder what's behind it

Nothing compares to the hatred spewed here for a Ferrari driver named Rubens! Hatred is not strong enough a word. And he was driving for Ferrari !!!!! I wonder what was behind that? Meanwhile Lewis has nothing but praise and respect for Charles and his success in such a short time with a top team to boot. Lewis never once tried to say it was the car not Charles' driving that won the race.

[Ferrarichamp]

Nothing compares to the hatred spewed here for a Ferrari driver named Rubens! Hatred is not strong enough a word. And he was driving for Ferrari !!!!! I wonder what was behind that? Meanwhile Lewis has nothing but praise and respect for Charles and his success in such a short time with a top team to boot. Lewis never once tried to say it was the car not Charles' driving that won the race.

Funny how some people only feel offended when Lewis is criticized, if it's any another driver they don't care.

[vetalo]

Nothing compares to the hatred spewed here for a Ferrari driver named Rubens! Hatred is not strong enough a word. And he was driving for Ferrari !!!!! I wonder what was behind that? Meanwhile Lewis has nothing but praise and respect for Charles and his success in such a short time with a top team to boot. Lewis never once tried to say it was the car not Charles' driving that won the race.

The drivers respect each other, they may not be dinner mates but they respect each becuase they know what they are doing to enterain us could also take life, so to see people here talk about dislike for someone at every oppotunity shows there is more to it. I wonder if he becomes Ferrari driver and win ferrari world championship what will they do??????.

[Brembo]

A good question! Merc now has Michael as retiring from their team as the F-1 greatest. And as Toto said, it was Michael's know how and teaching that made them the team they are now. Lewis @ Ferrari retiring with 100 wins, 100 poles, 10 WDCs would be out of control great if that was to happen. If that happens @ Merc it will be a tough act to follow for any team for years to come. Ferrari fans welcomed Seb with his 4 WDCs and waving finger, with open arms , never again a bad word said about him. I can't see Merc ever letting Lewis go. So Ferrari fans can breath a sigh of relief and continue praising only Lewis' car for the wins. Entertainment wise , Lewis' push at the final laps last race made up for losing Max so early in the race. Monza !!!!!

[JPZ]

A good question! Merc now has Michael as retiring from their team as the F-1 greatest. And as Toto said, it was Michael's know how and teaching that made them the team they are now. Lewis @ Ferrari retiring with 100 wins, 100 poles, 10 WDCs would be out of control great if that was to happen. If that happens @ Merc it will be a tough act to follow for any team for years to come. Ferrari fans welcomed Seb with his 4 WDCs and waving finger, with open arms , never again a bad word said about him. I can't see Merc ever letting Lewis go. So Ferrari fans can breath a sigh of relief and continue praising only Lewis' car for the wins. Entertainment wise , Lewis' push at the final laps last race made up for losing Max so early in the race. Monza !!!!!

Hopefully Ferrari or Red Bull will able to put an end to this next year.

Leclerc and Verstappen in a competitive car can beat Hamilton.

Albon is also showing potential, lots of new drivers with great talent at the moment.

[Brembo]

I'm with you 100% ! Charles and Max are already ready . A home team win coming up !!!

[nani_s23]

Max mistake nobody highlighted... funny & still saying he’s the real deal.
Did somebody say to crash into kimi’s car???

If max would have been there, if he’s not there....all these are if’s n but’s