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Thread: Japanese Grand Prix 2019

  1. #241
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    Very happy for Seb today. Not a chance for a win Mercedes was so much faster and had better tyre wear in the race. But that was expected as the S1 did kill our tyres. Great defence by Seb for holding Lewis. What a monster pole Lap was so happy really I think he rediscovered some of his old form. Shame for Leclerc.

    I thing we could have a good chance in next races.

  2. #242
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    This is the first time, I never mind and feel happy even though we were not winning. our two roosters was driven very good.

  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vettel165 View Post
    Very happy for Seb today. Not a chance for a win Mercedes was so much faster and had better tyre wear in the race. But that was expected as the S1 did kill our tyres. Great defence by Seb for holding Lewis. What a monster pole Lap was so happy really I think he rediscovered some of his old form. Shame for Leclerc.

    I thing we could have a good chance in next races.
    We should start the race on Medium type, but ...

  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    Charles the best for me in this season. Vettel is getting up there. We have two strong drivers for next season.
    Which is shaping up well.
    Not like Bottas who occasionally wins n gives the way for Ham.
    Indeed, great to see the real Seb returning, hopefully both drivers feel in tune with next years car and we will be in a good place.
    Forza Ferrari

  5. #245
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    That start was something out of a horror movie. I get why Leclerc could struggle from the dirty side, but Vettel... really?

    Either way, on the basis of what happened there P2/P6 would be more than one could expect, especially given that driving through the field is hard around that place. Vettel probably would've won had we held the line into Turn 1 and ended Lap 1 in a 1-2 formation, since undercutting two cars is helluva lot more difficult than one so that really must be investigated what the hell went wrong there. Lost opportunity to pull an upset, but Hammy not winning softens that blow.

    The good news are though that now we're favourites for pole on every remaining circuit and that creates opportunities.

  6. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tifoso Svedese View Post
    That start was something out of a horror movie. I get why Leclerc could struggle from the dirty side, but Vettel... really?

    Either way, on the basis of what happened there P2/P6 would be more than one could expect, especially given that driving through the field is hard around that place. Vettel probably would've won had we held the line into Turn 1 and ended Lap 1 in a 1-2 formation, since undercutting two cars is helluva lot more difficult than one so that really must be investigated what the hell went wrong there. Lost opportunity to pull an upset, but Hammy not winning softens that blow.
    Seb messed up the start nothing much else needs investigated.
    Forza Ferrari

  7. #247
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    Binotto says Leclerc got a 15 second penalty. 5 for the contact with Max and 10 for not pitting him when his wing was damaged.

  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher View Post
    Binotto says Leclerc got a 15 second penalty. 5 for the contact with Max and 10 for not pitting him when his wing was damaged.
    Lost a place as a result of that.

  9. #249
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    Mercedes had 2 horses this race even if Seb was leading he would not won. Bottas would make an undercut and Lewis staying out. If we could have been 1-2 after Turn one than yes. But had way to high tyre deg.
    Mexico could be good. I am happy.

  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vettel165 View Post
    Mercedes had 2 horses this race even if Seb was leading he would not won. Bottas would make an undercut and Lewis staying out. If we could have been 1-2 after Turn one than yes. But had way to high tyre deg.
    Mexico could be good. I am happy.
    Due to altitude, power advantage doesn't matter much in Mexico. And that is what makes the upcoming race exciting. All 5 drivers will be fighting for pole and win.

  11. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher View Post
    Binotto says Leclerc got a 15 second penalty. 5 for the contact with Max and 10 for not pitting him when his wing was damaged.
    To re-investigate a matter that was dropped on Lap 3 (T2 collision) is so corrupt that it's beyond a joke. Also, the maFIA should've informed the team there would be an investigation or we'd not pitted Charles pure and simple and kept the extra two points thank you very much. That's the worst part. All sane people know that they'd never investigate the gray trash after a race in that manner. Sure, the endplate damage warranted a penalty but you can't do it TWO HOURS after it happened. The maFIA are so biased it's beyond a joke and it's been ongoing ever since we became a threat to the gray trash again. The team ran the strategy assuming Charles was in the clear due to the timelapse and then they do this? Absolutely dreadful. The whole point is, a simple notification of intent would've saved two points and we're still in contention for WDC podiums.

    One thing I had to hand to Hammy though is that he sure had balls today, running so close to a car in front with a loose endplate. They must really trust the halo... damn. I'd backed off an additional second for sure seeing how bent the thing was.
    Last edited by Tifoso Svedese; 13th October 2019 at 10:29.

  12. #252
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    See, had Ferrari used the mediums in Q2 because of the qualifying advantage they could have afforded bad starts. They would have been able to go longer and probably catch Bottas with the overcut or at least having softer and fresher tyres in the end of the race on a lighter fuel load. This is so stupid. They really need to iron these things out for next year. Another race win thrown away.

  13. #253
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    Overcut would not work here, Bottas was 3 seconds quicker than Lewis after his 1st stop so undercut was the only way to go. We had 1-2 on the grid you can't blame us not winning because we never started on mediums, had we kept 1-2 after turn 1 we probably would have won but we never due to driver errors nothing to do with the tyres.
    Forza Ferrari

  14. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher View Post
    Binotto says Leclerc got a 15 second penalty. 5 for the contact with Max and 10 for not pitting him when his wing was damaged.
    yep, 15-second penalty for Leclerc. 5 for the incident with Max and 10 for continuing to drive with an unsafe car. Also 2 penalty points and €25.000 for Ferrari.

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  15. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimiBot View Post
    Come on now Brembo, he was not even close to pass Seb, with much fresher tires and not one attempt, he was trying it for sure, asking for more power and all that.
    You are right. I just felt Lewis was going to think more about making a mistake if he did have a shot at passing Seb. He knew his 3rd. place was enough to eliminate all but Bottas. I still believe he could have did the last ten laps without pitting, but again what for the points did the trick coming in 3rd.

  16. #256
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    Couldn’t watch the race but it seems we lost it at the start. But surely confidence is back, we seem to be strong on any circuit now. Bodes well for the next year

  17. #257
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    I missed quali so was over the moon to see a front row lockout, only for it all to go wrong at the start and first corner. Seb and Charles both made mistakes, although I'm convinced that Max turned into Charles too, but he's now received a 15sec penalty, lost P6 and got 2 penalty points on his licence. They should have brought him in straight after the first lap and he could still have made his mark as he did some amazing passes in the race. I don't think we'd have won even without those errors, but Seb did a great job holding off HAM. Another lost opportunity but the speed is there, the tyre issues still haunt us, and HAM didn't win, so it could have been worse.
    Last edited by wisepie; 13th October 2019 at 16:38.

  18. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    Overcut would not work here, Bottas was 3 seconds quicker than Lewis after his 1st stop so undercut was the only way to go. We had 1-2 on the grid you can't blame us not winning because we never started on mediums, had we kept 1-2 after turn 1 we probably would have won but we never due to driver errors nothing to do with the tyres.
    By starting on the medium they could have gone for a one-stopper on the hards in the 2nd stint. As Merc was always comitted to a two-stopper by starting on the softs, it would have worked. Obviously not for Charles because of his front wing damage but it would have worked for Seb. I also don't understand why this was a two-stopper race. Like it was all planned by everyone from the start to spice it up. People always see different things at each race. This is what I saw today.
    Last edited by 512 TR; 13th October 2019 at 11:22.

  19. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by 512 TR View Post
    By starting on the medium they could have gone for a one-stopper on the hards in the 2nd stint. As Merc was always comitted to a two-stopper by starting on the softs, it would have worked. Obviously not for Charles because of his front wing damage but it would have worked for Seb.
    You think we would have pace on hards? really...there was no error in strategy only errors came at the hands of the drivers. I don't think Merc were tied to 2 stops at all and they just played it pretty safe today.
    Forza Ferrari

  20. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    You think we would have pace on hards? really...there was no error in strategy only errors came at the hands of the drivers. I don't think Merc were tied to 2 stops at all and they just played it pretty safe today.
    Obviously the race was thrown away at the start by both our drivers. But starting on the mediums would have been an insurance from the risk of what happened. That's all I'm saying. Infact it's anybody's guess how long a first stint on the mediums could have been streteched out. My belief is that it could have been for so many laps that softs would have been enough in the end. If not, then fresh hards from mid-race would have worked as well. Especially since there was no threat from the back. Ferrari only raced Merc.

  21. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by 512 TR View Post
    Obviously the race was thrown away at the start by both our drivers. But starting on the mediums would have been an insurance from the risk of what happened. That's all I'm saying. Infact it's anybody's guess how long a first stint on the mediums could have been streteched out. My belief is that it could have been for so many laps that softs would have been enough in the end. If not, then fresh hards from mid-race would have worked as well. Especially since there was no threat from the back. Ferrari only raced Merc.
    So you think we could race Merc on hards with them on mediums? So should we always start on the mediums for insurance? That would be ridiculous would it not?
    Forza Ferrari

  22. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    So you think we could race Merc on hards with them on mediums? So should we always start on the mediums for insurance? That would be ridiculous would it not?
    Yes, I believe so. Because obviously we would have had 23-24 seconds in hand by doing one stop less. A two-stopper (like Merc did) by either going soft-medium-soft or soft-soft-medium would not have been quicker than a one-stopper going medium (half way) and then hards or medium (stretched out) and softs for the last 20 laps, or so, on a lighter fuel load. Also have in mind that last year Pirelli brought the supersofts, softs and mediums to Suzuka. This year the C3, C2 and C1 compounds used were the softs, mediums and hards. So they went at least one step harder. That's why the softs this year would have survived some 20 laps on a light fuel load in the end.

    The thing is that there are so many options that pitwalls never use or calculate that ultimately are faster than what they end up using. Why? Because if on one hand you have the fuel load and on the other hand you have the compound used at a given time then the difference by using the harder ones on a heavy fuel load will save you time. For two reasons, first you can go longer and second, you can go faster in the end of the race on a softer compound. These harder compounds are so durable that if you only race the team that is infront of you then you will catch up in the end, if you are on a different pitstop sequence

    I will say one more thing. Ferrari would have most likely made Q3 by using HARDS in Q2. They would end up somewhere around P10. Then even with bad starts and contact the race would have been sealed with a sure one-stopper.

  23. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by 512 TR View Post
    Yes, I believe so. Because obviously we would have had 23-24 seconds in hand by doing one stop less. A two-stopper (like Merc did) by either going soft-medium-soft or soft-soft-medium would not have been quicker than a one-stopper going medium (half way) and then hards or medium (stretched out) and softs for the last 20 laps, or so, on a lighter fuel load. Also have in mind that last year Pirelli brought the supersofts, softs and mediums to Suzuka. This year the C3, C2 and C1 compounds used were the softs, mediums and hards. So they went at least one step harder. That's why the softs this year would have survived some 20 laps on a light fuel load in the end.

    The thing is that there are so many options that pitwalls never use or calculate that ultimately are faster than what they end up using. Why? Because if on one hand you have the fuel load and on the other hand you have the compound used at a given time then the difference by using the harder ones on a heavy fuel load will save you time. For two reasons, first you can go longer and second, you can go faster in the end of the race on a softer compound. These harder compounds are so durable that if you only race the team that is infront of you then you will catch up in the end.

    I will say one more thing. Ferrari would have most likely made Q3 by using HARDS in Q2. They would end up somewhere around P10. Then even with bad starts and contact the race would have been sealed with a sure one-stopper.
    How can you decide we would have 23 seconds in hand, like everyone just goes the same pace and only pitstop decides something? We would easily lose 24 seconds by being on hard tyres against Merc on Mediums struggling to understand why you think we would be able to catch them based on what we actually seen today when they had the better race pace on the same tyres as us....as for the rest sorry but you are over thinking and making up stuff.
    Forza Ferrari

  24. #264
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    Well, not bad. Great recovery drive for Charles. Just real shame for the penalty.

    Anyway, missed qualifying as fell asleep. Was up watching Petite Le-Mans. Saw the finish there, Risi Ferrari won whoop. And then fell asleep. Woke up during the race at lap 25. So recorded it and went to bed watched when woke.

    Not sure why all the negative on here, we knew be tough to beat Mercedes at Suzuka. Yes, Sebs mistake didn't help, but don't think we wouldn't been able to keep Mercs behind as had better race pace. And at Suzuka, there few places to overtake.

    Hats off to Mercs for their WCC again, hope this is the last year of their dominance.
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  25. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher View Post
    Binotto says Leclerc got a 15 second penalty. 5 for the contact with Max and 10 for not pitting him when his wing was damaged.
    They should not pit LEC because he is almost 30 seconds ahead

  26. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    How can you decide we would have 23 seconds in hand, like everyone just goes the same pace and only pitstop decides something? We would easily lose 24 seconds by being on hard tyres against Merc on Mediums struggling to understand why you think we would be able to catch them based on what we actually seen today when they had the better race pace on the same tyres as us....as for the rest sorry but you are over thinking and making up stuff.
    Re-read my post again because you clearly are not getting the message and what I'm trying to say (maybe you do it deliberately?). A pitstop takes around the time that I wrote (23-24 seconds). In any given stage of the race there is not a spot where a harder tyre loses 1 second a lap to a softer one (not on this circuit because it's a flowing one), on any given fuel load. So that's at least 25 laps in hand if Ferrari would have been on hards at a given time and Merc on softs/medium at the same moment. And again, Pirelli brought a harder range of compounds this year than last year. So bolting on softs at the end would also have worked, even if they would be a tad more worn than Mercs softs/mediums. Why? Because again, the softs were harder this year.

    Again, mediums (stretched out)-softs, mediums (mid race)-hards or hards-softs would be a quicker race time than softs-mediums-softs or softs-softs-mediums. If the pitwall make these calculations they will see that I'm right. This is no magic. The problem, again, is that pitwalls never explore these options. I don't believe they are stupid. I believe they are told by the FiA and Liberty what to do pree qualifying for the spectacle so to speak.

  27. #267
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    We didn’t reap what we sowed

    Suzuka, 13 October 2019 – Scuderia Ferrari Mission Winnow leaves Suzuka and the Japanese Grand Prix having picked up a second place with Sebastian Vettel and a seventh with Charles Leclerc. That definitely did not live up to expectations given the front row lockout in qualifying held at 10 in the morning because of the Hagibis typhoon. Sebastian paid the price for a hesitant start, while Charles had to deal with the after-effects of a coming together with Max Verstappen at the first corner. The Dutchman spun, while the Monegasque had to pit after three laps to change his damaged front wing, which meant he had to fight back from last place.

    Start. For both Ferraris, the race got complicated right from the start. Sebastian hesitated when the lights went out and Valtteri Bottas got ahead of him and Charles got wheelspin so he was slow off the line and Verstappen came around the outside of him. Bottas led into turn 1 followed by Vettel, Leclerc, Verstappen and Lewis Hamilton. It was here that the Ferrari and Red Bull tangled and that would complicate Leclerc’s race. He worked his way up from 20th to seventh before his second pit stop and was sixth before making a third visit to the pits on lap 46, when it was clear he would not lose any places. After the race, the stewards reviewed the incident between Leclerc and Verstappen and imposed a 15 second time penalty on our driver, which thus drops Charles from sixth to seventh place.

    Two stops. Sebastian was able to match Bottas’ pace and manage Hamilton who was behind him, but as from lap 14, he began to lose ground to the leader. Two more laps and the team called him in for his first stop, fitting another set of Softs so he could keep attacking. On the following lap, Bottas pitted and got out ahead of Vettel, while Hamilton waited until lap 21 for his stop, at which point Sebastian moved back up to second. The German came in for his second stop on lap 31, his SF90 now running on Mediums as he rejoined in third place. Five laps later, Bottas made his second stop, handing the lead to Hamilton who then pitted on lap 42, rejoining right behind Vettel, but the German managed to fend him off for six laps to the chequered flag, with a skilful drive that made use of all his car’s performance.

    Next stop North America. This was Scuderia Ferrari’s 17th podium of the season, the eighth for Sebastian. Now the World Championship has a weekend off to charge its batteries before heading off for a double header in North America, starting with the Mexican Grand Prix on Sunday 22 October followed by the USA race on 3 November.

    Sebastian Vettel #5
    “We had a very good morning, but the afternoon was less good in terms of the result we were able to achieve as a team.
    The start wasn’t good for either me or Charles and without that, we could have had both cars fighting at the front. It was difficult today and to be fair. Our rivals were simply quicker, Valtteri was just flying.

    I had a poor start, I was a bit early with the clutch initially then clutched in again and lost a bit of momentum. Usually our starts are very good but not this time. After that we were missing out a little bit in terms of speed in the race compared to our rivals. We went through the tyres more than Valtteri and Lewis. Especially at the end of the stints they were dropping off a bit more, whereas our rivals kept the pace throughout.

    Towards the end my only target was to stay ahead of Lewis. I knew that down the straights he struggled to overtake, so I just tried to have clean exits in the places where it mattered.”

    Charles Leclerc #16
    “It was a tough race. I made a mistake at the start and made contact with Max (Verstappen) in turn 1, which unfortunately compromised both our races and my front wing was damaged.

    I tried to make the best of it going forward. After the first stop, when my front wing was changed, I gave it my all. I tried to make up as many positions as possible. Although it was quite fun to overtake other cars and fight my way up the field, P6 is not our target or a result we are satisfied with. It was a different weekend overall, and I look forward to the opportunity of bringing home better results once again at the upcoming races.”

    Mattia Binotto Team Principal
    “Congratulations from all of us to our rivals and friends for nailing another well-deserved Constructors’ Championship today. Over the course of the season, they simply did the best job and that’s exactly what you need in this business.

    For our part, I’d like to highlight a positive aspect, namely the performance of our car, which was good enough to secure the front row in qualifying this morning – an exceptional result here at Suzuka. As for the race itself, we are disappointed that we did not reap the rewards of what we had sown. A shame. The start compromised the rest of the race, although it has to be said that our rival’s pace was very strong and we suffered more than them with tyre degradation. We made mistakes and now we just have to look to ourselves to improve.”
    CAVALLINO RAMPANTE PER SEMPRE

  28. #268
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    Good race by Seb. To bad for Lec
    Looks like the engine itís the best of all
    Down forse itís gething better.
    Now they need to get the race pace fix.

    A question I have for the forum:

    Ferrari is concentrating on qualify set up and we are compromising the race pace?


    "Big things have small beginings"
    "Perseverence is power"

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    CAVALLINO RAMPANTE PER SEMPRE

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    CAVALLINO RAMPANTE PER SEMPRE

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