Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 31 to 60 of 169

Thread: FIA concludes analysis of Scuderia Ferrari Power Unit reaches settlement with Ferrari

  1. #31
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    towradgi beach
    Posts
    2,148
    Well said simple and to the point.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    241
    I think Ferrari were sandbagging during this test not to show their hand. Trap speed is not the end all be all. Remember Vettel with Red Bull almost never had the best top speed but the car was amazing in the corners because of the blown diffuser.

    They might not be faster than Mercedes but they need to keep them guessing not for them to move resources to the 2021 project.

    If Mercedes knows the exact performance of our car, they can access how much time for us to catch them and divert the teams of engineers to next year. Its a game of cat and mouse.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    towradgi beach
    Posts
    2,148
    Ferrari did a deal with the fia that equals a settlement. What Ferrari had was not right nor wrong but the fia in confidence with Ferrari have shut it down.,basicly it was that clever they showed the fia.In return the pu secret remains.The problem is that nosy teams will not just go away and will stop at nothing in finding out the loop hole that was shut down.Bad luck I say the Ferrari engine will match mercedes in strait line speed come business day.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Godric's Hollow
    Posts
    9,467
    Quote Originally Posted by SS454 View Post
    Having an engine seized is pretty bad and I think it's clear Ferrari were cheating. F1 and Motorsports in general is about finding loop holes and bending the rules, playing in the grey, whatever. But this was enough to force Ferrari to change their design, which supposedly has reduced power compared to last year. Even if it's a 20 hp drop, that is significant. If Merc has found 5-10 horsepower and is more efficient and driveable, well that's going to be a pretty big gap.

    I personally find it hard to believe Mercedes hasn't been bending the rules in their engine department for some time. They have had some big advantages over Renault, Ferrari, and Honda for years. Ferrari had to cheat just to catch up. There are only so many places to find power with restricted fuel flow regulations.
    And where's your evidence of Ferrari PU lacking power compared to other manufacturers. I mean Brazil was prime example, Mercedes had considerable pace advantage over Ferrari at that race and Bottas, even with 2 DRS zone couldn't overtake Charles. Abu Dhabi was another example, where Leclerc blasted past Verstappen at the start of the GP. Sure later Verstappen got past Leclerc, with DRS, but that was mainly due to Ferrari chewing up its tyres and giving away 6-7 tenths per lap in the last sector.

    And I have followed the second test quite closely, both Alfa and Haas had reached the highest top speed. And Leclerc, during his race sim, was consistently reaching 290+ at the main straight. (297 was highest without DRS)
    And when he overtook Kvyat and Raikkonen at the early phase of his race sim with DRS, his top speed was 320 kph, which was 15-17 kph more than what he achieved during his qualy sim run with DRS.

    So overall, there's absolutely no conclusive data out there that suggest, last year's or this year's Ferrari PU lacks power.

    (ps. I should add that Ferrari PU's main advantage wasn't it's top speed, it was more about the sheer acceleration/boost it achieved at specific speed)
    Last edited by tifosi1993; 29th February 2020 at 19:54.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    AREA 51
    Posts
    156
    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    And where's your evidence of Ferrari PU lacking power compared to other manufacturers. I mean Brazil was prime example, Mercedes had considerable pace advantage over Ferrari at that race and Bottas, even with 2 DRS zone couldn't overtake Charles. Abu Dhabi was another example, where Leclerc blasted past Verstappen at the start of the GP. Sure later Verstappen got past Leclerc, with DRS, but that was mainly due to Ferrari chewing up its tyres and giving away 6-7 tenths per lap in the last sector.

    And I have followed the second test quite closely, both Alfa and Haas had reached the highest top speed. And Leclerc, during his race sim, was consistently reaching 290+ at the main straight. (297 was highest without DRS)
    And when he overtook Kvyat and Raikkonen at the early phase of his race sim with DRS, his top speed was 320 kph, which was 15-17 kph more than what he achieved during his qualy sim run with DRS.

    So overall, there's absolutely no conclusive data out there that suggest, last year's or this year's Ferrari PU lacks power.

    (ps. I should add that Ferrari PU's main advantage wasn't it's top speed, it was more about the sheer acceleration/boost it achieved at specific speed)

    https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1...notto/4703563/

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    AREA 51
    Posts
    156
    Let's find out what emerges from the press release issued yesterday by the FIA ​​on the surprise agreement signed with Ferrari. It is not so much the sponge blow on the past as the role change that concerns the present and the future of the Scuderia in the relationship with the legislator. Mercedes and Red Bull did not like it. Not at all ...


    The press release issued by the FIA ​​late yesterday afternoon had the effect of a bomb. The team leaders had already left the Barcelona paddock when the news spread. The FIA ​​has declared the "war" on the Ferrari engine closed, which has sparked many controversies especially at the end of last year.


    A very confidential agreement, the contents of which will remain secret outside the parties, was signed after the International Federation sanctioned the closure of the investigation into the Cavallino's power unit. The evil ones claim that the sponge stroke served to cover a controversial and controversial phase of last year.


    We wanted to draw a line on the past to build a new relationship from scratch, based on collaboration between the parties.


    "The FIA ​​and Scuderia Ferrari have agreed on a series of technical commitments - it was written in the press release - which will improve the monitoring of all the power units in the next championships, as well as supporting the Federation in other regulatory aspects in Formula 1 and in its activities of research on reducing carbon emissions and introducing sustainable fuels ".


    And those who think badly immediately hinted that it happened as when a government asks for help from a hacker to prevent his computer systems from being violated.


    We do not share this vision, because the Scuderia will be in the front row in the study of the 2025 F1 engine that could become the laboratory for the Automotive in the transition phase that the world of auto traction will have to endure while waiting for an electrical network capable to satisfy green mobility with zero emissions.


    There is also the idea of ​​relaunching the diesel, coming out of the demonization that was made by the case that had hit the VW. The F1 could look to a power unit with a higher prevalence of the hybrid and it is not said that alternative fuels can be studied to reduce emissions.


    But the FIA-Ferrari agreement that made Mercedes and Red Bull and more, open up an important window also on the present. Mattia Binotto did not hesitate to "postpone" the performance of the SF1000 ("I would give a rating of less than 6") to lash the team right now that together with Louis Camilleri has won a political game that will have a great weight on the 2020 season.


    For the first time, Ferrari has adopted the same tactic on the engine that James Allison played for the approval of the DAS. The Cavallino technicians wrote a series of letters to Nicholas Tombazis on the use of the power unit and the intercooler in which all the doubts regarding the interpretations of the gray areas of the regulation were clarified and obtaining all the authorizations to start a season without the continuous ballet of controversy that characterized the last world championship.


    It is not the first point scored by the Camilleri-Binotto couple, given that last year the Cavallino team had reached an economic agreement with FOM for the renewal of the Agreement of Concordia 2021-25, securing 38% of the prizes fixed. Found the square with Liberty, it was necessary to do it also with the FIA.


    The Scuderia, therefore, intends to confirm the motor supremacy despite the Federation has intensified the checks with the introduction of a second flow meter to check the instantaneous consumption of petrol in real time.


    And we would not be surprised at all if the power unit that was mounted on the SF1000 in the Barcelona tests was only an "embryonic" form of the 065 that maybe we will see later.


    Of course we cannot expect "... a second of engine" as Toto Wolff said provocatively, after Brackley's technicians have pointed out to him with the GPS surveys the low maximum speeds of the Red, but the Cavallino fans can hope for a noticeable reduction in the gap of the SF1000 from the silver arrow.


    Binotto knows he has an ace to play and has seen how Mercedes is struggling to hold the game in the delicate field of the power unit (5 engines broken in its test sessions), so it pushes Maranello technicians to evolve quickly the Red.


    The SF1000 was not born badly because it is already better than the SF90, but perhaps David Sanchez, head of the aerodynamics, had exaggerated last year in search of speed at the speed trap, while now he has focused too much on cornering, finding himself with a exaggerated resistance to advance which creates a sort of "wall" on the straight.


    The increased engine power will partially reduce the negative effects, but Ferrari has immediately launched the design of an SF1000 B that p

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Corpus Christi Tx
    Posts
    11,048
    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    Here's my simple take: what Ferrari did was technically legal, but against the spirit of the regulations. The "settlement" is Ferrari agreeing with FIA not to use it again.
    I think some of us need to calm down and stop making mountain out of a molehill. Our PU wasn't illegal, otherwise the FIA would have said so. It very well may have been in the grey area and disclosing that secret would mean disclosing the technical aspects of the PU.
    Quote Originally Posted by paolo lalli View Post
    Ferrari did a deal with the fia that equals a settlement. What Ferrari had was not right nor wrong but the fia in confidence with Ferrari have shut it down.,basicly it was that clever they showed the fia.In return the pu secret remains.The problem is that nosy teams will not just go away and will stop at nothing in finding out the loop hole that was shut down.Bad luck I say the Ferrari engine will match mercedes in strait line speed come business day.
    Jean Todt is President of the FIA.

    Nicolas Todt (son of Jean Todt) manages Charles Leclerc (Ferrari)

    Jean Todt use to work with Brawn, Bryne, during the Schumacher years with Ferrari during their dominance.

    This "settlement" with Ferrari and the FIA and that "it remain between the parties" is deeper and somewhat "personal" between Todt and Ferrari.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    2,089
    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    And where's your evidence of Ferrari PU lacking power compared to other manufacturers. I mean Brazil was prime example, Mercedes had considerable pace advantage over Ferrari at that race and Bottas, even with 2 DRS zone couldn't overtake Charles. Abu Dhabi was another example, where Leclerc blasted past Verstappen at the start of the GP. Sure later Verstappen got past Leclerc, with DRS, but that was mainly due to Ferrari chewing up its tyres and giving away 6-7 tenths per lap in the last sector.

    And I have followed the second test quite closely, both Alfa and Haas had reached the highest top speed. And Leclerc, during his race sim, was consistently reaching 290+ at the main straight. (297 was highest without DRS)
    And when he overtook Kvyat and Raikkonen at the early phase of his race sim with DRS, his top speed was 320 kph, which was 15-17 kph more than what he achieved during his qualy sim run with DRS.

    So overall, there's absolutely no conclusive data out there that suggest, last year's or this year's Ferrari PU lacks power.

    (ps. I should add that Ferrari PU's main advantage wasn't it's top speed, it was more about the sheer acceleration/boost it achieved at specific speed)
    Ferrari slower in the speed traps in relation to others (how much sand bagging is going on, who knows), and Binotto saying 2020 engine is less power than 2019. Mercedes saying they have more power this year. If this is all true, then that is a big concern.

  9. #39
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    5,586
    Quote Originally Posted by vcs316 View Post
    Wow, the amount of hate you have for Ferrari management, its drivers and the team is truly an embarrassment.
    I'm OK with Charles and I believe he can win with a car that's up there. No one is worse than Binotto as far as talking bad about Ferrari's future. Imagine showing up for work and your boss tells you, " Were gonna lose!" The amount of hate you have for some folks here is is an embarrassment , namely that Brembo name! You should stick to posting pages of info from the many F-1 sights that most fans already read but you get an E for effort! The word hate is all over you , calm down!! Your liable to get other members to go along with you on the hatred although for the most part most members are too smart to fall into that " Hate " that you profess . Charles , Max. Lewis will make this year great to follow!! I.m also watching and hoping Gio can get to Ferrari in the near future. The best to you always.

  10. #40
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Kitchener, CANADA
    Posts
    9,913
    Quote Originally Posted by SS454 View Post
    Ferrari slower in the speed traps in relation to others (how much sand bagging is going on, who knows), and Binotto saying 2020 engine is less power than 2019. Mercedes saying they have more power this year. If this is all true, then that is a big concern.
    the merc may have more power then 2019.....but how reliable is it?? merc already had 5 failures across the board.....

    and as far as binotto's comments about 2020 engine having less power.....it's all head games mate and a poker face....that's all....

    i can't wait for the season to start adn one of our boys will grab POLE....
    So 2023 started off bad, but managed to claw back some lap time come end of the year. Lets hope SF24 will give us tifosi something to smile about.

  11. #41
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    1,261
    Damn, not good. Motorsport - Total reports whistleblowers told FIA/other teams what is happening.

  12. #42
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    India
    Posts
    43
    Can anyone explain is this positive or negative, i am a bit confused about below article

    http://scuderiafans.com/ferrari-the-...attia-binotto/
    Forza Ferrari Forever

  13. #43
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Belgrade, Serbia
    Posts
    15,759
    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Jean Todt is President of the FIA.

    Nicolas Todt (son of Jean Todt) manages Charles Leclerc (Ferrari)

    Jean Todt use to work with Brawn, Bryne, during the Schumacher years with Ferrari during their dominance.

    This "settlement" with Ferrari and the FIA and that "it remain between the parties" is deeper and somewhat "personal" between Todt and Ferrari.
    I remember when JT left Ferrari and become FIA president, and I was thinking this is great! It is ex Ferrari employ and it will bring only good in the future as it is "our" man in the high castle. For the record I was not expecting JT will push Ferrari and always have one eye closed if Ferrari is doing something in gray area or even not legal, but to have some old love for the reds. But I was deceived. He is haveing some big grunge over Ferrari, for the reasons not known to me....

  14. #44
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Corpus Christi Tx
    Posts
    11,048
    Quote Originally Posted by stefa View Post
    I remember when JT left Ferrari and become FIA president, and I was thinking this is great! It is ex Ferrari employ and it will bring only good in the future as it is "our" man in the high castle. For the record I was not expecting JT will push Ferrari and always have one eye closed if Ferrari is doing something in gray area or even not legal, but to have some old love for the reds. But I was deceived. He is haveing some big grunge over Ferrari, for the reasons not known to me....
    We got "lucky" with the settlement. Had it been anyone else other than JT, the penalty would have been alot harsher and possibly more transparent IMO.

    JT is president of the FIA, so he has to find a "middle-ground" with Ferrari regarding how he deals with Ferrari and how it transcends to the media and public regarding the findings of the 2019 engine.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  15. #45
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    India
    Posts
    11,173
    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    We got "lucky" with the settlement. Had it been anyone else other than JT, the penalty would have been alot harsher and possibly more transparent IMO.

    JT is president of the FIA, so he has to find a "middle-ground" with Ferrari regarding how he deals with Ferrari and how it transcends to the media and public regarding the findings of the 2019 engine.
    In turn ferrari is giving all the liberty to FIA. They are getting much revenue due to ferrari existence in the sport, if not no one would have watched F1.

  16. #46
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    hong kong
    Posts
    1,519
    It is highly possible the FIA couldn't prove that Ferrari did any thing wrong last year and just want to bury this issue and move on. After all, the engineers at teams are a lot clever than the ones at FIA.

  17. #47
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Christchurch,UK
    Posts
    4,957
    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    Umm...What!?

    If you think @wisepie is a Merc fan or a troll, then you're very very wrong.
    Thank you for your vote of confidence, tifosi, and having been a tifoso of Ferrari since 1967 without ever giving up, winning or losing, to suggest that I would support Mercedes and Hamilton is outrageous!

  18. #48
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Hungary
    Posts
    108
    Quote Originally Posted by bondilad View Post
    It is highly possible the FIA couldn't prove that Ferrari did any thing wrong last year and just want to bury this issue and move on. After all, the engineers at teams are a lot clever than the ones at FIA.
    This.

    They (FIA) could face a long legal battle possibly if not 10000% provable.
    This is why this agreement is reached.

  19. #49
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Ferrari Car
    Posts
    1,841
    Quote Originally Posted by bondilad View Post
    It is highly possible the FIA couldn't prove that Ferrari did any thing wrong last year and just want to bury this issue and move on. After all, the engineers at teams are a lot clever than the ones at FIA.
    Ferrari did nothing wrong but yet they are happy with this undisclosed agreement and having to endure the public shame. IF you read all the info out there, is clear that Ferrari did something against the rules. Even Binotto said this year engine is worse than last year.

  20. #50
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    3,195
    Quote Originally Posted by darkchild View Post
    Damn, not good. Motorsport - Total reports whistleblowers told FIA/other teams what is happening.
    Yeah a dutch F1 news site also said some Ferrari employees told the FIA some stuff.
    Sack those people, you don't see this stuff happening with Mercedes or Ted Bull.
    Hero's come and go, but legends never die!

  21. #51
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Czech Republic
    Posts
    7,508
    I am now reading, that Ferrari confirmed the engine is not as powerfull, as the engine from last season...

    "If he can't do it with Ferrari, well, he can't do it." - John Surtees

  22. #52
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Corpus Christi Tx
    Posts
    11,048
    Quote Originally Posted by darkchild View Post
    Damn, not good. Motorsport - Total reports whistleblowers told FIA/other teams what is happening.
    Quote Originally Posted by SilverSpeed View Post
    Yeah a dutch F1 news site also said some Ferrari employees told the FIA some stuff.
    Sack those people, you don't see this stuff happening with Mercedes or Ted Bull.
    Post a link??

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyss4k View Post
    I am now reading, that Ferrari confirmed the engine is not as powerfull, as the engine from last season...
    yep. Autosport posted an article as well.

    https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/14...against-rivals
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  23. #53
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Romania
    Posts
    42

  24. #54
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Corpus Christi Tx
    Posts
    11,048

    Okay.....thanks

    Turrini

    I'm gonna wait and pass judgement till more "reputable" sources post this "news."
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  25. #55
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    241
    If this is true, they better find this mole before he gives more of Ferrari secrets. This reminds me of the Mclaren spygate but to the FIA. Why are people so disloyal? Money?

  26. #56
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Corpus Christi Tx
    Posts
    11,048
    Quote Originally Posted by TTRSMAD View Post
    If this is true, they better find this mole before he gives more of Ferrari secrets. This reminds me of the Mclaren spygate but to the FIA. Why are people so disloyal? Money?
    IF the story is true, could be a disgruntled employee maybe??
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  27. #57
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    towradgi beach
    Posts
    2,148
    Italians are famous turning on each other when some one gets punted.Aways a rort is not a rort if you are part of the rort.Appears that some disgruntled ex employee has spilled his guts and sunk the ship.

  28. #58
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Godric's Hollow
    Posts
    9,467
    Now there's a rumor going on that the so called "whistleblower" didn't go to the FIA directly, instead reported to a rival team. If that's true then it is a textbook corporate espionage, aka spygate 2.0.

  29. #59
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    belgrade
    Posts
    112
    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    Now there's a rumor going on that the so called "whistleblower" didn't go to the FIA directly, instead reported to a rival team. If that's true then it is a textbook corporate espionage, aka spygate 2.0.
    He stated, that Ferrari has a whistleblower in its team, which provided the infos about the power unit. The problem is, that the whistleblower reported to a different team, not to the fia directly! This could have very big consequences for the team which received the informations. The only teams that come to question are Mercedes and Red Bull.

    Is this the start of spygate 2.0? If Mercedes is again involved in a spy scandal, like in 2007 with McLaren, could this be the end for the Mercedes F1 program?

    RB got the information from Mercedes. I remember AMuS writing something about that in the past. Mercedes were the ones working this whole thing out, they just let RB do the complain in public for some reason

    So possible scenario
    Merc have spy in ferrari but didnt want to intervene so they decide to pass info to rb and proffesional sheet stirrer pr from RB...
    Ferrari = 235 victories + 219 pole positions + 248 fastest laps = constructors championships 16

  30. #60
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    32,234
    Not sure it would be the same as spygate if the other team just directly told the FIA, not quite the same as what McLaren did.

    Must be someone quite high up that gave the info.
    Forza Ferrari

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •