Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 60

Thread: Move Ferrari to England and get a Merc engine....

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    29,192

    Move Ferrari to England and get a Merc engine....

    Would that please most if it meant we won titles?

    Does it matter to anyone that Ferrari are Italian and based in Italy, does it matter if they make their own engine?

    Would they even be Ferrari anymore if they did?
    Forza Ferrari

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Corpus Christi Tx
    Posts
    7,160
    Move Ferrari F1 to England.

    Hire a TP with enough savvy and managerial skills to run an F1 team of the likes of Wolff or Horner....Ferrari has the money to hire the best for that position.

    Hire staff, engineers and mechanics for an F1 team in that area where most F1 teams are located. Ferrari has the money to hire the best.

    Do all your wind tunnel tests and CFD at the England site.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    India
    Posts
    8,821
    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Move Ferrari F1 to England.

    Hire a TP with enough savvy and managerial skills to run an F1 team of the likes of Wolff or Horner....Ferrari has the money to hire the best for that position.

    Hire staff, engineers and mechanics for an F1 team in that area where most F1 teams are located. Ferrari has the money to hire the best.

    Do all your wind tunnel tests and CFD at the England site.
    I agree...!!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    1,722
    The titles would be meaningless to me. Ferrari is Italian and should stay in Italy. Making our own engines is part of our DNA. These ebbs and flows of dominance by one team happen all the time in the history of F1. Unfortunately, this is not our time. We will recover, as angry as I and many tifosi are, we need to be patient and stop the knee jerk reactions.

    So no, moving team is not the answer.
    ~FORZA FERRARI~

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Here
    Posts
    2,671
    Move to england if it meant better tech personnel. We can still build our own engines and it will still be an italian team.
    Silently, like a shadow

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    India
    Posts
    8,821
    Quote Originally Posted by ferrari1.8t View Post
    The titles would be meaningless to me. Ferrari is Italian and should stay in Italy. Making our own engines is part of our DNA. These ebbs and flows of dominance by one team happen all the time in the history of F1. Unfortunately, this is not our time. We will recover, as angry as I and many tifosi are, we need to be patient and stop the knee jerk reactions.

    So no, moving team is not the answer.
    Ferrari base would be in Italy. It’s just they need to get rid of correlation data issues.
    Set up another base in England & hire. Instead of pouring so much on drivers & other stuff, just correct your data. If not the best, be at least competitive.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    ...
    Posts
    244
    I would not want to see Ferrari leave Maranello.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    1,722
    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    Ferrari base would be in Italy. It’s just they need to get rid of correlation data issues.
    Set up another base in England & hire. Instead of pouring so much on drivers & other stuff, just correct your data. If not the best, be at least competitive.
    There are large ramifications with that model. Ferrari employs plenty of local residents, the local economy depends on Ferrari. You would cripple that region if you took away most of the jobs Ferrari creates imo.
    ~FORZA FERRARI~

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Corpus Christi Tx
    Posts
    7,160
    Quote Originally Posted by ferrari1.8t View Post
    There are large ramifications with that model. Ferrari employs plenty of local residents, the local economy depends on Ferrari. You would cripple that region if you took away most of the jobs Ferrari creates imo.
    Just the F1 dept.....not the whole Ferrari company.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Montreal, Canada
    Posts
    3,047
    How quickly some forget how well Ferrari were doing under Sergio Marchionne... may he rest in peace...

    There are teams in the UK that are also not able to progress and have done nothing for 10-15 years... there is definitely a question of lack of competence in the current Ferrari organization. This needs to be corrected quickly.

    Maybe they should also consider leaving F1 and going to Indycar... i watched a race over the weekend, there must have been over 100 passes made, it was much closer racing and much more exciting than the current iteration of F1 where there is too much politics and where the rules are stifling the sport because teams do not have the budget.
    Rest in Peace Leza, you were a true warrior...

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Corpus Christi Tx
    Posts
    7,160
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony View Post
    How quickly some forget how well Ferrari were doing under Sergio Marchionne... may he rest in peace...

    There are teams in the UK that are also not able to progress and have done nothing for 10-15 years... there is definitely a question of lack of competence in the current Ferrari organization. This needs to be corrected quickly.

    Maybe they should also consider leaving F1 and going to Indycar... i watched a race over the weekend, there must have been over 100 passes made, it was much closer racing and much more exciting than the current iteration of F1 where there is too much politics and where the rules are stifling the sport because teams do not have the budget.
    Those teams don't have money like Ferrari IF Ferrari was already in the UK 10 or 15 years ago.

    No, Ferrari should not leave F1.......ever.

    Ferrari did try to protest in the psst with a full scale fully drivable Indycar entry.....but Ferrari did'nt enter it. With the budget cap now looming, it's a possibility to shift some of those "lost" resources to Indycar??
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Malaysia
    Posts
    9,656
    I'd rather see Ferrari leave F1 than to race with a Merc engine.
    The engine is the heart of the car. Can't call it a Ferrari car if it's running someone else's engine

    As far as talent goes, I dont believe that Ferrari team must be lead by an Italian only. Ferrari should get the best people out there, irrespective of their nationality.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA!
    Posts
    2,135
    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Move Ferrari F1 to England.

    Hire a TP with enough savvy and managerial skills to run an F1 team of the likes of Wolff or Horner....Ferrari has the money to hire the best for that position.

    Hire staff, engineers and mechanics for an F1 team in that area where most F1 teams are located. Ferrari has the money to hire the best.

    Do all your wind tunnel tests and CFD at the England site.
    Exactly.

    Engines can still be built in Maranello, but engineering can take place in England. The engineers don't need to be in Italy to send designs there. I have projects all over the country without being in every one of those places all the time. You can even have the composites manufacturing in Maranello.

    They need to move the engineering department to a location where they have a greater pool of talent to hire from. I village of 17,000 people isn't enticing to many aspiring engineers. It's really simple.

    Having your engineering department in England doesn't make them an English team either. Merc's engineering base is in England but they are still considered a German team. Stop the stupidity.

    Quote Originally Posted by ferrari1.8t View Post
    There are large ramifications with that model. Ferrari employs plenty of local residents, the local economy depends on Ferrari. You would cripple that region if you took away most of the jobs Ferrari creates imo.
    Whaaaaaaaaaaaaa. Ferrari F1 is a sports team/business, not a charity.
    Liberty-Guns-Beer-Trump... & Ferrari.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Kiato-Greece
    Posts
    2,797
    Personally i dont like the idea of Ferrari being outside Maranello. It might become better team but i will different in my eyes !!!!
    FERRARI FOR EVER !!!!!!!

  15. #15
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    830
    As if Britons are the only people in the world who can design an F1 car ... WW2 ended a long time ago, and so did their superpower status. The "Motorsport Valley" is no more than a remnant of it. I am convinced that if brands such as Renault, Mercedes and Honda had an ongoing factory team in F1 like Ferrari instead of making an appearance from time to time by buying an England-based team (Benetton/Toleman, BrawnGP/Tyrell/BAR...) when it suits them, they wouldn't be located in England at all.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    near silverstone
    Posts
    131
    Ferrari is Maranello but Formula 1 of which Ferrari is one of the building blocks prospers mainly in the Northampton shire, Oxford shire and Buckingham shire area of England with Renault and Mercedes based here. I'm sure they make some components abroad but the knowledge is based here

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA!
    Posts
    2,135
    Quote Originally Posted by F2008 View Post
    As if Britons are the only people in the world who can design an F1 car ... WW2 ended a long time ago, and so did their superpower status. The "Motorsport Valley" is no more than a remnant of it. I am convinced that if brands such as Renault, Mercedes and Honda had an ongoing factory team in F1 like Ferrari instead of making an appearance from time to time by buying an England-based team (Benetton/Toleman, BrawnGP/Tyrell/BAR...) when it suits them, they wouldn't be located in England at all.
    No one is saying “only Britons can design F1 cars” what is being said is that a greater number of top level engineers are willing to be in or relocate to England than Italy. Therefore if the design team for Ferrari was in England they would have access to a grater pool of talent. Newey not wanting to move to Italy and Allison wanting to leave are just two examples of an overall trend. This is why Ferrari are not competitive anymore. They simply can’t attract talent.
    Liberty-Guns-Beer-Trump... & Ferrari.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    London
    Posts
    689
    Quote Originally Posted by WS6TransAm01 View Post
    No one is saying “only Britons can design F1 cars” what is being said is that a greater number of top level engineers are willing to be in or relocate to England than Italy. Therefore if the design team for Ferrari was in England they would have access to a grater pool of talent. Newey not wanting to move to Italy and Allison wanting to leave are just two examples of an overall trend. This is why Ferrari are not competitive anymore. They simply can’t attract talent.
    Ferrari used to have this setup in the mid 90s and it brought no success. John Barnard had his design office setup in England. Chief Designer Gustav Brunner was also working out of England.

    Ferrari only became successful after Todt decided this setup was not feasible in the long run and moved everything back to Maranello.

    Since then, Ferrari have attracted a very diverse set of people in terms of nationality with many British nationals. Off the top of my head:

    Brawn (British)
    Byrne (South African)
    Dyer (Australian)
    Smedley (British)
    Tombazis (Greek)
    Czapski (British)
    Allison (British)
    Simon (French)
    De Beer (South African)
    Clear (British)
    Fry (British)

    I don't believe Ferrari being based in Maranello is hindering them. If anything it's an advantage to have both the engine and design departments next door to each other. No other team has that advatange.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Corpus Christi Tx
    Posts
    7,160
    Quote Originally Posted by Gerhard Berger View Post
    Ferrari used to have this setup in the mid 90s and it brought no success. John Barnard had his design office setup in England. Chief Designer Gustav Brunner was also working out of England.

    Ferrari only became successful after Todt decided this setup was not feasible in the long run and moved everything back to Maranello.

    Since then, Ferrari have attracted a very diverse set of people in terms of nationality with many British nationals. Off the top of my head:

    Brawn (British)
    Byrne (South African)
    Dyer (Australian)
    Smedley (British)
    Tombazis (Greek)
    Czapski (British)
    Allison (British)
    Simon (French)
    De Beer (South African)
    Clear (British)
    Fry (British)

    I don't believe Ferrari being based in Maranello is hindering them. If anything it's an advantage to have both the engine and design departments next door to each other. No other team has that advatange.

    Trus.....but Barnard was'nt the best Team Principal. He was a loner and did'nt work well with engineers....hence the failure of the GTO in the 90's.

    Yes, Ferrari has attracted the people you mentioned......but some or most of those people don't last with Ferrari.

    Just because Ferrari tried it once in the past, does'nt mean they can try it again albeit with experienced people whom can manage and run an F1 team.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    London
    Posts
    689
    Quote Originally Posted by WS6TransAm01 View Post
    Exactly.

    Engines can still be built in Maranello, but engineering can take place in England. The engineers don't need to be in Italy to send designs there. I have projects all over the country without being in every one of those places all the time. You can even have the composites manufacturing in Maranello.
    That seems wholly inefficient.

    They need to move the engineering department to a location where they have a greater pool of talent to hire from. I village of 17,000 people isn't enticing to many aspiring engineers. It's really simple.
    Do you really think Milton Keynes or Brackley is that much more enticing?

    I understand that some Brits might not been keen on moving themselves (and their family) to Italy (Newey being a prime example), but the evidence suggests that many of the top Brits are happy to make the move.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA!
    Posts
    2,135
    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Trus.....but Barnard was'nt the best Team Principal. He was a loner and did'nt work well with engineers....hence the failure of the GTO in the 90's.

    Yes, Ferrari has attracted the people you mentioned......but some or most of those people don't last with Ferrari.

    Just because Ferrari tried it once in the past, does'nt mean they can try it again albeit with experienced people whom can manage and run an F1 team.
    Excellent point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerhard Berger View Post
    That seems wholly inefficient.



    Do you really think Milton Keynes or Brackley is that much more enticing?

    I understand that some Brits might not been keen on moving themselves (and their family) to Italy (Newey being a prime example), but the evidence suggests that many of the top Brits are happy to make the move.
    as jg said, it doesn't seem to last.

    Brackley is an hour and a half outside of London, as in Milton Keynes. London is to Europe as NYC is to the US. Personally I'd rather be 90' outside of London and 2 hours outside of Rome.
    Last edited by WS6TransAm01; 7th July 2020 at 12:39.
    Liberty-Guns-Beer-Trump... & Ferrari.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    London
    Posts
    689
    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Trus.....but Barnard was'nt the best Team Principal. He was a loner and did'nt work well with engineers....hence the failure of the GTO in the 90's.
    He did just fine at Mclaren...

    Yes, Ferrari has attracted the people you mentioned......but some or most of those people don't last with Ferrari.
    There will always be turnover regardless of nationality. Even the Italians will come and go.

    Just because Ferrari tried it once in the past, does'nt mean they can try it again albeit with experienced people whom can manage and run an F1 team.
    A move like this has a lot of costs involved. It's not something that should done on a whim or as a knee jerk reaction to a poor start to the season.

    Looking back at what happened with Barnard does give us insights into the difficulties of such a setup.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA!
    Posts
    2,135
    Quote Originally Posted by Gerhard Berger View Post
    A move like this has a lot of costs involved. It's not something that should done on a whim or as a knee jerk reaction to a poor start to the season.
    Except it's not just one season. It's 12.
    Liberty-Guns-Beer-Trump... & Ferrari.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    London
    Posts
    689
    Quote Originally Posted by WS6TransAm01 View Post
    Excellent point.



    as jg said, it doesn't seem to last.

    Brackley is an hour and a half outside of London, as in Milton Keynes. London is to Europe as NYC is to the US. Personally I'd rather be 90' outside of London and 2 hours outside of Rome.
    Have you been to Brackley or Milton Keynes? They are not glamorous places. Guys working for Mercedes or Red Bull will be living in those places. They won't be living in London or working in London!

    Maranello is closer to Milan by the way.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    London
    Posts
    689
    Quote Originally Posted by WS6TransAm01 View Post
    Except it's not just one season. It's 12.
    12 poor starts to the season? Please list them. Seems like you have very high standards. Certainly 17 and 18 were not poor.

    I guess Mclaren should re-consider their base in Woking given the number of poor starts to the season they've had! Perhaps they should move to Italy!

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA!
    Posts
    2,135
    Quote Originally Posted by Gerhard Berger View Post
    12 poor starts to the season? Please list them. Seems like you have very high standards. Certainly 17 and 18 were not poor.

    I guess Mclaren should re-consider their base in Woking given the number of poor starts to the season they've had! Perhaps they should move to Italy!
    You're right. I am not talking about starts. I am talking about 12 poor seasons as a whole.

    McLaren has other issues.
    Liberty-Guns-Beer-Trump... & Ferrari.

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Montevideo
    Posts
    538
    Quote Originally Posted by ferrari1.8t View Post
    The titles would be meaningless to me. Ferrari is Italian and should stay in Italy. Making our own engines is part of our DNA. These ebbs and flows of dominance by one team happen all the time in the history of F1. Unfortunately, this is not our time. We will recover, as angry as I and many tifosi are, we need to be patient and stop the knee jerk reactions.

    So no, moving team is not the answer.
    I completely agree with you, thinking of a british Ferrari or using Mercs engine is just blasphemous.

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    1,511
    Quote Originally Posted by gvera View Post
    I completely agree with you, thinking of a british Ferrari or using Mercs engine is just blasphemous.
    Those are my sentiments as well. I had a longer reply ready yesterday but found yours covered how I felt more than adequately, thanks.

  29. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    29,192
    Quote Originally Posted by WS6TransAm01 View Post
    Newey not wanting to move to Italy and Allison wanting to leave are just two examples of an overall trend. This is why Ferrari are not competitive anymore. They simply can’t attract talent.
    Newey's wife did not want to move not Newey, Allison left to go home after the death of his wife, he had previously already been at Ferrari so clearly had no issue moving to Italy, he did not leave because of anything to do with Italy.
    Forza Ferrari

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    29,192
    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Trus.....but Barnard was'nt the best Team Principal. He was a loner and did'nt work well with engineers....hence the failure of the GTO in the 90's.
    Maybe because he was not the team principal? He was technical director heading up the car design team not running the whole team.
    Forza Ferrari

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •