View Poll Results: Replace Binotto?

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Thread: The chopping block. Mattia Binotto stay or go?

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Yes, IF Ferrari had a Mercedes engine, it too would be up there fighting with Mercedes.

    Unfortunatley, Ferrari makes it own.....which is why it won't sell to RedBull.....niether will Mercedes.
    So moving to England and getting all these amazing talents that work there would mean nothing....
    Forza Ferrari

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    So moving to England and getting all these amazing talents that work there would mean nothing....
    If that's what you think......

    I think otherwise.

    RedBull is an energy drink company...not a car manufacturer....so it is limited on the engine....until 2020.

    Had RedBull not been based in England but rather in another country....then those "amazing" talents that they currently have would not be there.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    If that's what you think......

    I think otherwise.

    RedBull is an energy drink company...not a car manufacturer....so it is limited on the engine....until 2020.

    Had RedBull not been based in England but rather in another country....then those "amazing" talents that they currently have would not be there.
    But you just admitted if Ferrari had a Merc engine we would challenge them, while being based in Italy, so why would moving to England change anything when we would still not have a Merc engine?

    And you have no idea who would work for Red Bull or not if they were based outside of England so there is no point just making things up.
    Forza Ferrari

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    But you just admitted if Ferrari had a Merc engine we would challenge them, while being based in Italy, so why would moving to England change anything when we would still not have a Merc engine?

    And you have no idea who would work for Red Bull or not if they were based outside of England so there is no point just making things up.
    If Ferrari F1 moved to England, a long time ago, Ferrari F1 would be in a better position than they currently are.

    Not moving to Engalnd puts everyone at a disadvantage.

    That's my opinion.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    If Ferrari F1 moved to England, a long time ago, Ferrari F1 would be in a better position than they currently are.

    Not moving to Engalnd puts everyone at a disadvantage.

    That's my opinion.
    Ferrari did move to England a long time ago (twice) and it did not work, that's a fact not just an opinion based on nothing. And please don't post that Barnard was not a good team leader as he was not, he was a designer.

    We would still not have a Merc engine if we were in England for that last 50 years, and you already said with a Merc engine we would be challenging Merc so why is being in Italy holding us back?

    End of the day Ferrari are Italian and will remain so, you should have realised that when you picked them to support. What made you a Ferrari fan to begin with?
    Forza Ferrari

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    Ferrari did move to England a long time ago (twice) and it did not work, that's a fact not just an opinion based on nothing. And please don't post that Barnard was not a good team leader as he was not, he was a designer.

    We would still not have a Merc engine if we were in England for that last 50 years, and you already said with a Merc engine we would be challenging Merc so why is being in Italy holding us back?

    End of the day Ferrari are Italian and will remain so, you should have realised that when you picked them to support. What made you a Ferrari fan to begin with?

    Really?

    I'm not the only one here who criticizes Ferrari's efforts here on this Forum.

    So IF you're going to question my involvement here on this forum, then I suggest you do the same to others on here INSTEAD of singling me out to fit your narrative.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  7. #67
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    Maybe so but not many blame them for being Italian and decide they would be much better as an English team, you do so just wondering why you supported Ferrari the Italian team to begin with?
    Forza Ferrari

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    Maybe so but not many blame them for being Italian and decide they would be much better as an English team, you do so just wondering why you supported Ferrari the Italian team to begin with?

    Your a psychiatrist now??

    Let me base my opinions on this forum.....as others do as well....positive or negative.

    If your going to jump on me, then I suggest you do the same to others...otherwise have a nice day.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Your a psychiatrist now??

    Let me base my opinions on this forum.....as others do as well....positive or negative.

    If your going to jump on me, then I suggest you do the same to others...otherwise have a nice day.
    Your the one here saying move to England......so you don't have an answer? You can post opinions all day long but if you can't back them up with anything then are they really worth being classed as an opinion.

    You also made this claim

    Their ethos is borderline "insanity"
    Yet you say I am the psychiatrist?
    Forza Ferrari

  10. #70
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    Their being based to Italy has nothing to do with their problems. Their management does. Really it has to do with management. Good management attracts people and poor guess what it does.
    Ferrari moving to England will solve them ziltz.

    Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk
    "If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by aroutis View Post
    Their being based to Italy has nothing to do with their problems. Their management does. Really it has to do with management. Good management attracts people and poor guess what it does.
    Ferrari moving to England will solve them ziltz.

    Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk
    Agreed.

    Thankfully they seem to be making efforts to address this.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by aroutis View Post
    Their being based to Italy has nothing to do with their problems. Their management does. Really it has to do with management. Good management attracts people and poor guess what it does.
    Ferrari moving to England will solve them ziltz.

    Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk
    Quote Originally Posted by JPZ View Post
    Agreed.

    Thankfully they seem to be making efforts to address this.
    Ferrari F1, not the whole Ferrari, need diverstiy IF it want's to return to it's glory days. Being an ALL Italian F1 team will not solve their problems internally BUT I guess since being all Italian is more important....let's try next year......and next year......and next year.....and next year......and so on.

    Binotto has made changes and he is still making changes. Ferrari F1 still has strategy issues with tires as we have seen in the last race and Seb being the strategist for himself.

    With the amount of money that Ferrari F1 has, one would think they have made progress.....but it is quite the opposite.

    Honda has an office in Milton Keynes. After 6 years and 2 teams they have made progress with the engine....beating Renault and Ferrari. Yet they don't have an all Japanese mantra at Milton Keynes....Of course the head guy on the engine is Japanese.

    Mercedes AMG bought a team in England instead of making it an all German F1 team in Germany.

    The talent pool is greater in this circle of F1 teams based in England and with Ferrari's money, they can hire the best engineers, aerodynamiciss, strategists, and so on to be great again.

    Otherwise it will just be next year and next year and next year. Just because Ferrari tried in the past does'nt mean it won't work again. People change from within. This era in F1 is an entirely different animal.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  13. #73
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    Ferrari is not an all Italian team, just like Red Bull and Merc are not all English teams...
    Forza Ferrari

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Ferrari F1, not the whole Ferrari, need diverstiy IF it want's to return to it's glory days. Being an ALL Italian F1 team will not solve their problems internally BUT I guess since being all Italian is more important....let's try next year......and next year......and next year.....and next year......and so on.

    Binotto has made changes and he is still making changes. Ferrari F1 still has strategy issues with tires as we have seen in the last race and Seb being the strategist for himself.

    With the amount of money that Ferrari F1 has, one would think they have made progress.....but it is quite the opposite.

    Honda has an office in Milton Keynes. After 6 years and 2 teams they have made progress with the engine....beating Renault and Ferrari. Yet they don't have an all Japanese mantra at Milton Keynes....Of course the head guy on the engine is Japanese.

    Mercedes AMG bought a team in England instead of making it an all German F1 team in Germany.

    The talent pool is greater in this circle of F1 teams based in England and with Ferrari's money, they can hire the best engineers, aerodynamiciss, strategists, and so on to be great again.

    Otherwise it will just be next year and next year and next year. Just because Ferrari tried in the past does'nt mean it won't work again. People change from within. This era in F1 is an entirely different animal.

    You seem to think all great F1 engineers and personnel live in England. Why do Ferrari need English personnel to succeed? Would Spanish, Greek, Chinese, Japanese, German personnel not make good F1 people if they have the skills? Would a Chinese national rather live in England or Italy or would it matter? I'm sure Ferrari is open to hiring outside their nationality.
    Honda has a facility in England because that is where their team has/had their headquarters.
    Splitting Ferrari would not improve it. They would need a complete new wind tunnel, factory, logistics etc. Think we have enough correlation issues as it is.


    What if Ferrari went to Indycar. Would they need a new factory in America?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Bob View Post
    You seem to think all great F1 engineers and personnel live in England. Why do Ferrari need English personnel to succeed? Would Spanish, Greek, Chinese, Japanese, German personnel not make good F1 people if they have the skills? Would a Chinese national rather live in England or Italy or would it matter? I'm sure Ferrari is open to hiring outside their nationality.
    Honda has a facility in England because that is where their team has/had their headquarters.
    Splitting Ferrari would not improve it. They would need a complete new wind tunnel, factory, logistics etc. Think we have enough correlation issues as it is.


    What if Ferrari went to Indycar. Would they need a new factory in America?
    The best are in England. Ferrari needs the best and can hire them....even though they have and have left Ferrari.

    HAAS has a facility in England even though they also have a facility in America. HAAS is'nt a top tier formula 1 team but they also "piece-meal" their car.

    Mclaren is in IndyCar even though the car is "badged" Mclaren.

    Ex-Formula 1 driver Mark Webber has stated that Ferrari should move to the U.K. IF it wanted to return to it's glory days of the past.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    The best are in England. Ferrari needs the best and can hire them....even though they have and have left Ferrari.

    HAAS has a facility in England even though they also have a facility in America. HAAS is'nt a top tier formula 1 team but they also "piece-meal" their car.

    Mclaren is in IndyCar even though the car is "badged" Mclaren.

    Ex-Formula 1 driver Mark Webber has stated that Ferrari should move to the U.K. IF it wanted to return to it's glory days of the past.
    Right. Because Mark Webber has how many WDC? He should be the authority on how to win them. Ferrari's 'glory days' happened when they were centralized in Italy.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Bob View Post
    Right. Because Mark Webber has how many WDC? He should be the authority on how to win them. Ferrari's 'glory days' happened when they were centralized in Italy.
    Mark went to LeMans and won there.

    Yes, Ferrari's glory days where when they were centralized in Italy. That was a dream team. NOT GONNA HAPPEN AGAIN.....EVER. LdM and Marchionne want Italians to have the final say.

    This is a different era of F1. Desperate times call for desperate measures. I want the best for Ferrari. There are teams beating Ferrari in 2020 with a 1/3 to 1/2 the cost and 1/3 to 1/2 the staff of what Ferrari has currently and looks to succeed on 2021.

    Do we have the best in the F1 team? The only person that comes to mind is Leclerc at the moment. The strategist is poor, The aero is poor. The engine is poor. The correlation is poor. The pit crew is good.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Mark went to LeMans and won there.

    Yes, Ferrari's glory days where when they were centralized in Italy. That was a dream team. NOT GONNA HAPPEN AGAIN.....EVER. LdM and Marchionne want Italians to have the final say.

    This is a different era of F1. Desperate times call for desperate measures. I want the best for Ferrari. There are teams beating Ferrari in 2020 with a 1/3 to 1/2 the cost and 1/3 to 1/2 the staff of what Ferrari has currently and looks to succeed on 2021.

    Do we have the best in the F1 team? The only person that comes to mind is Leclerc at the moment. The strategist is poor, The aero is poor. The engine is poor. The correlation is poor. The pit crew is good.


    LdM & Marchionne are no longer at Ferrari. What if moving to England means we lose Binotto or Resta or other high profile guys?
    Think what you like, but just moving the whole kaboodle to england won't fix what's wrong. Why don't we let them settle down and start laying some foundations. A successful team will attract talent. Let's get this house in order before we move to another.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Bob View Post
    LdM & Marchionne are no longer at Ferrari. What if moving to England means we lose Binotto or Resta or other high profile guys?
    Think what you like, but just moving the whole kaboodle to england won't fix what's wrong. Why don't we let them settle down and start laying some foundations. A successful team will attract talent. Let's get this house in order before we move to another.
    Ferrari has been laying foundations upon foundatons for over a decade. The "HOUSE' is in dis-array.....has been for over a decade. We're going backwards,,,,not forwards.

    I have patience but this is getting to be unbelievable when compared to other teams that are beating Ferrari.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  20. #80
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    Maybe that's the whole point. In 6 years we've had 4 team principles. Maybe sticking with one and letting them set up a system might be the right thing to do. If not we can fire them all and move to England.

  21. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Ferrari has been laying foundations upon foundatons for over a decade. The "HOUSE' is in dis-array.....has been for over a decade. We're going backwards,,,,not forwards.

    I have patience but this is getting to be unbelievable when compared to other teams that are beating Ferrari.
    Bit over dramatic we should have won titles in that decade, we are hardly as bad as you seem to make out. You could say Red Bull have been going backwards also since they won a title....oh and they are based in England....
    Forza Ferrari

  22. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    Bit over dramatic we should have won titles in that decade, we are hardly as bad as you seem to make out. You could say Red Bull have been going backwards also since they won a title....oh and they are based in England....
    FFS.....the formula changed in 2014. Everyone went backwards when that happened and Mercedes had a 100hp lead.

    RedBull in 2020 is beating Ferrari currently...so they are moving forwards. Thank-You Honda.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  23. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    FFS.....the formula changed in 2014. Everyone went backwards when that happened and Mercedes had a 100hp lead.

    RedBull in 2020 is beating Ferrari currently...so they are moving forwards. Thank-You Honda.
    +1000%.....could not agree more

  24. #84
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    Ferrari thinking they had a Schumy Jr. in Seb was the downfall, period. Binotto was told Seb is #1 no matter what. If not up front from the start of the race Seb is no better than a F-2 rookie fighting in the pack. I can only hope Charles drives to " Kill!" win wise. Not even a podium for Ferrari ??? I don't believe the cars are that bad! Stroll up ahead !

  25. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Ferrari F1, not the whole Ferrari, need diverstiy IF it want's to return to it's glory days. Being an ALL Italian F1 team will not solve their problems internally BUT I guess since being all Italian is more important....let's try next year......and next year......and next year.....and next year......and so on.

    Binotto has made changes and he is still making changes. Ferrari F1 still has strategy issues with tires as we have seen in the last race and Seb being the strategist for himself.

    With the amount of money that Ferrari F1 has, one would think they have made progress.....but it is quite the opposite.

    Honda has an office in Milton Keynes. After 6 years and 2 teams they have made progress with the engine....beating Renault and Ferrari. Yet they don't have an all Japanese mantra at Milton Keynes....Of course the head guy on the engine is Japanese.

    Mercedes AMG bought a team in England instead of making it an all German F1 team in Germany.

    The talent pool is greater in this circle of F1 teams based in England and with Ferrari's money, they can hire the best engineers, aerodynamiciss, strategists, and so on to be great again.

    Otherwise it will just be next year and next year and next year. Just because Ferrari tried in the past does'nt mean it won't work again. People change from within. This era in F1 is an entirely different animal.
    Yes, I am sure that we were in England when we were sweeping the WDC and WCC... oh wait, noooo, we were in Italy.
    DUH!

    Here's the problem, we had real management, we had the right people in the right places, even when problems arose took the responsibilities and the team would not feel THE pressure, that would make for a more efficient environment, and guess what,
    eventually the results would come.

    If you compare that time with what happens today, guess what you'll see; Ah yes, the complete reverse. People asking for axes to fall and people to be beheaded, some people even asking for the F1 team to go to UK (omg LOL) and I don't know what else madness.

    OK, let's get serious here. I mean, I understand, it's been years since last championship for the Scuderia, but on a serious note, it's all down to management. Even if i flick my fingers and the factory, the team, teleports (beam me up Scotty!) to England, you seriously think that 'll fix things? NO, it will not.
    Unless we do what we did back when we brought Jean Todt and co. we'll keep doing what we do and things will only get worse.

    Simple as that.
    "If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve

  26. #86
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    Mercedes purchased Brawn, and before that Brawn purchased Honda which had purchased BAR.

    Jaguar bought Stewart Grand Prix and Red Bull purchased Jaguar.

    Toyota, on the other hand set up their own works team in the UK.

    The majority of these teams bought teams which were already well established.

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    Ferrari, Elkann: "Total trust in everyone, but patience is needed"

    The President of the Cavallino spoke to the Gazzetta dello Sport about the current state of the Scuderia, admitting the difficulties of today, but confident that already in 2022 there may be a turnaround.

    John Elkann asks patience from the Cavallino fans, guaranteeing the current team of the Scuderia the time necessary to return to the top.

    The Ferrari President answered the many questions that emerged in this first part of the 2020 World Championship in an interview granted to La Gazzetta dello Sport.


    A picture of great confidence and stability emerges, in which Elkann postpones the appointment for the victory to 2022, taking note of a current situation that is difficult to recover.

    “The sporting part is undoubtedly going through a difficult period that starts from afar - confirmed the President of the Cavallino - we have not won a constructors' World Championship since 2008 and one riders since 2007. There have been the winning cycles of Red Bull for aerodynamic capacity and of Mercedes for the great skill in hybrid engine technologies.
    "" This year we are not competitive even due to machine setting errors. We have had a number of structural weaknesses that have long existed in aerodynamics and vehicle dynamics. We have also lost in engine power. The reality is that our car is not competitive. You saw it on the track and you will see it again. Today we are laying the foundations for being competitive and returning to winning when the rules change in 2022. I am convinced of it. "

    In the meantime, confidence in the current working group comes from Elkann, and especially in Mattia Binotto: “Total trust! Also because Mattia Binotto, who has taken the helm of the Scuderia for a year, has all the skills and characteristics to start a new winning cycle. He was in Ferrari with Todt and Schumi, he knows how to win and from next year he will work with two young and ambitious drivers like us ".


    And speaking of pilots, Elkann has clarified the reasons that led to focus on a very young couple.

    “In the last ten years we have had champions such as Alonso and Vettel who have been world champions - he confirmed - but it is undoubtedly more difficult to rebuild a cycle and ask for patience to those who have already won compared to those who have the future ahead of them. We are laying the foundations for building something important and lasting, and the contract we signed with Charles proves it: five years, never so long in Ferrari's history. Leclerc and Sainz will take home in Maranello, will be close to our engineers. The new machine will be born with them ".

    The new machine to which Elkann refers is the one that will take part in the 2022 World Cup. So said, it is an implicit admission that in 2020 and 2021 there will only be suffering. How much has the technical freeze imposed by the regulation affected this situation?
    “A lot, given that we start off poorly and we must be realistic and aware of the structural weaknesses of the machine with which we have been living for a decade and which the transition to hybrid has underlined. We have given the ok to the new rules starting from 2022, because we believe it is right that there is greater competitiveness within F1, and we do not see the limitation of budget caps as a constraint on our ability to win, we take it as a challenge ".

    "Our engineers, our mechanics and our drivers will find in those constraints the strength and creativity to bring Ferrari back to the top. Personally I have never seen in the last 10 years such a cohesive and strong spirit".

    And what can you say to Ferrari fans? When will they have to wait to find the Reds in front of everyone?

    “The fans are suffering as much as we are, but we know they are close to us. This is why it is important to be clear and honest with them. A long path awaits us. When Todt opened that historic cycle in 2000, we came from a fast that had lasted for over twenty years, from 1979 ... It took time, from the landing in Maranello in 1993 to Ferrari's return to success. The important thing then is to work on the track and off the track, in a cohesive way, building the Ferrari we want step by step ".

    "Being President of Ferrari is a huge responsibility, which I am happy to share with Piero Ferrari and all those who work there. Ferrari is a unique reality, which has only thousands of customers but millions of fans and makes hundreds of millions dream people in the world. It is a company that knows how to combine beauty with performance. It has deep roots, in Maranello in Emilia, in Italy, and can speak to the world ".


    https://translate.google.com/transla...search&pto=aue
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  28. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    FFS.....the formula changed in 2014. Everyone went backwards when that happened and Mercedes had a 100hp lead.

    RedBull in 2020 is beating Ferrari currently...so they are moving forwards. Thank-You Honda.
    Beating Ferrari does not suggest moving forwards, when Ferrari are moving backwards (your words) so which one is it?

    Red Bull based in England with all these experts and still not moving forward....suppose you could wonder why Williams and McLaren are not winning title after title also being based in England....
    Forza Ferrari

  29. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    Beating Ferrari does not suggest moving forwards, when Ferrari are moving backwards (your words) so which one is it?

    Red Bull based in England with all these experts and still not moving forward....suppose you could wonder why Williams and McLaren are not winning title after title also being based in England....

    There are new 3 teams beating Ferrar in 2020i with another team who seems to be on aoother level since the start of 2014.....ALL 4 teams are based in England.

    These 3 new teams have made forward progress for 2020 against Ferrari.

    One can make the arguement that had these 3 new teams beating Ferrari for 2020 HAD NOT been based in England, they probably would not be beating Ferrari in 2020??

    BTW, in case you have'nt noticed, no one can beat Mercedes currently and win title after title. They set the standard of what an F1 team is....year after year. It's frustating but understandable.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

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    They can be based on Mars and still beat us with the Merc engine....
    Forza Ferrari

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