The chopping block. Mattia Binotto stay or go?

[tifosi1993]

There are lot of them in the queue if ferrari wishes to hire from out of its base market.
Binotto is a TP not a TD anymore, who should own the responsibility of all the depts & handle smoothly.

He said we have a good surprise here, but what is it?

Is there? To me it looks completely different. Ferrari is in Italy, and moving from UK to Italy is like moving from one continent to the other. Huge language barrier, Italian politics, many don't like to deal with such stuffs. So I don't see any queue forming up for a job at Maranello. It's actually the other way around.

And don't take me for a fan of TP Binotto. I do think he should go back to his previous TD role. But if he's unwilling, and if his supposed replacement is another boring internal name, then it's not gonna change anything.

And I've been hearing a lot about this so called "surprise". Can someone show me the actual source?

[Silent Bob]

Would be even better if we had last year's PU and ran with this year's downforce that we had at Barcelona testing. S3 in Barcelona was pretty good, better than last year.

[tifosi1993]

Yup. Ferrari has made decent gains with the chassis, even SPA sector 2 was better than last year, quite impressive.

[Noquarter]

Yup. Ferrari has made decent gains with the chassis, even SPA sector 2 was better than last year, quite impressive.

Last year, the track was much slower than 2018. Almost a second. So there is nothing to believe in improving the sector. Aerodynamics is as weak as the engine.

[Silent Bob]

Our sector 3 in Barcelona was pretty good. If we had an engine we could have reverted to the car we had back then. Lots of downforce and an engine that could still push us to respectable top speed.

[alfa84]

Driver handling?! It was Vettel who insisted to have or no a contract because, of course he feeled that it was the end. After that, under H Marko guidance, he made it public. This was selfish from him, but is in line with his childish caracter.
What could Mattia do?

[tifosi1993]

Driver handling?! It was Vettel who insisted to have or no a contract because, of course he feeled that it was the end. After that, under H Marko guidance, he made it public. This was selfish from him, but is in line with his childish caracter.
What could Mattia do?

Indeed. His career as a racing may be over, but atleast he can try his luck in politics. After all Vettel is a master of doublespeak. Just look at the amount of sympathy he has in this forum.

[nani_s23]

https://twitter.com/andreazalone/sta...537623553?s=21

[tifosi1993]

https://twitter.com/andreazalone/sta...537623553?s=21

Nothing funny about it. Maybe it's funny to some Vettel fans, because they are bitter about Binotto and Ferrari, but I hardly thing any true Ferrari fan will find it funny.

[JPMFerrari]

Another race, another weak performance expected.

[nani_s23]

Nothing funny about it. Maybe it's funny to some Vettel fans, because they are bitter about Binotto and Ferrari, but I hardly thing any true Ferrari fan will find it funny.

May be for you it’s not. Whoever posted it they are ferrari fans for your reference.
Ohhh for you whatever binotto does is good even his mistakes, for me it’s not.

Everyone is accountable of ferrari performance if it’s a mistake, may be it’s not for some anti fans who target one particular driver.

[nani_s23]

Binotto on Andy Cowell: "As far as I am aware he is still working at Mercedes currently. But certainly he is a great name in F1. Is he someone that will join Ferrari very soon? It's not the case."

[tifosi1993]

May be for you it’s not. Whoever posted it they are ferrari fans for your reference.
Ohhh for you whatever binotto does is good even his mistakes, for me it’s not.

Everyone is accountable of ferrari performance if it’s a mistake, may be it’s not for some anti fans who target one particular driver.

And? So what if the original poster is a Ferrari fan (according to you anyway)?

And you are the one talk about to "mistake", Vettel crashing or spinning 26 times in his Ferrari career (excluding practice and qualifying) is nowhere near to Binotto or another team members so called "mistakes". But you always jump on to defend Vettel and pull a blind eye when he spins or crashes, and bash other team members.

[Silent Bob]

Binotto on Andy Cowell: "As far as I am aware he is still working at Mercedes currently. But certainly he is a great name in F1. Is he someone that will join Ferrari very soon? It's not the case."

But he didn't say he wasn't joining. Just not very soon. Maybe there is something happening there.

[nani_s23]

And? So what if the original poster is a Ferrari fan (according to you anyway)?

And you are the one talk about to "mistake", Vettel crashing or spinning 26 times in his Ferrari career (excluding practice and qualifying) is nowhere near to Binotto or another team members so called "mistakes". But you always jump on to defend Vettel and pull a blind eye when he spins or crashes, and bash other team members.

look who’s saying ? Bashing team members?
When vettel crashes immediate post when other driver crashes no post

Simple logic, vettel done mistakes he’s out. But what about binotto? Dud cars, what’s your answer ? First answer this.
Shall I say your reply ? He shouldn’t be out ... reason you & me know very well

It’s you whoever try to post against binotto, treat them like a hell ...!! You are not viewing your own posts.
Bash vettel, defend binotto.

Leave everything, just answer my question. Posted long back, now doing it again for you
When the car is good, vettel didn’t perform made several mistakes & we can throw him out. Very good.
When the car is not good, drivers need to Sit & drive the car ? That’s it? No one is accountable ?
What kind of statement you are passing?

[nani_s23]

But he didn't say he wasn't joining. Just not very soon. Maybe there is something happening there.

Might be, but I’m not seeing anything of such.

[Silent Bob]

Wonder if they can convince Newey and Cowell to.join? That would add some talent.

[Brembo]

Ferrari signed Shumy Jr. up for $50, million a year thinking he has 4WDCs. and all he needed was 3 more to make Ferrari the team with 2 GOATs. I believe the 4WDC as great a record as that is; cost Seb the mid field experience he and Ferrari didn't realize he would need and still needs now that his R Bull rocket is no longer his ride. Seb also for sure didn't expect Charles to be #1 by results ; not contracts. Putting all that aside; Binotto must at all costs stop saying it will be tears and years until Ferrari has a shot at a comeback at being in contention. Charles has what it takes to compete as a driver. Don't force him to think otherwise. Maximum enthusiasm is what Charles deserves!!

[tifosi1993]

look who’s saying ? Bashing team members?
When vettel crashes immediate post when other driver crashes no post

Simple logic, vettel done mistakes he’s out. But what about binotto? Dud cars, what’s your answer ? First answer this.
Shall I say your reply ? He shouldn’t be out ... reason you & me know very well

It’s you whoever try to post against binotto, treat them like a hell ...!! You are not viewing your own posts.
Bash vettel, defend binotto.

Leave everything, just answer my question. Posted long back, now doing it again for you
When the car is good, vettel didn’t perform made several mistakes & we can throw him out. Very good.
When the car is not good, drivers need to Sit & drive the car ? That’s it? No one is accountable ?
What kind of statement you are passing?

Because other drivers are driving for other teams, not Ferrari. Why should anyone post here "Oh look x driver crashing and costing x team lot of points", because if they crash more often then it's fine. But when a Ferrari driver, especially someone who's being paid 40 millions, crashes more than anyone in the entire grid, then it's a problem. Not that hard to understand.

Sometimes a car is bad, sometimes it's good. But if you want people to be held accountable for bad cars, then you should blame the aero guys, design teams, CFD and wind tunnel guys, and drivers as well, because they are the ones who're providing the real world feedback. And Vettel's been in F1 for 14 years, and if he still can't provide adequate feedbacks, then the problem isn't solely on Ferrari.

My statement is pretty simple. A driver should give his best, regardless how the car is. Drivers, especially Ferrari drivers, shouldn't be making mistakes left-right. It's you with your bollywood logic can't gasp that simple fact. "What about other drivers", yeah...you worry about "other drivers" and let us worry about Ferrari drivers.

[nani_s23]

Because other drivers are driving for other teams, not Ferrari. Why should anyone post here "Oh look x driver crashing and costing x team lot of points", because if they crash more often then it's fine. But when a Ferrari driver, especially someone who's being paid 40 millions, crashes more than anyone in the entire grid, then it's a problem. Not that hard to understand.

Sometimes a car is bad, sometimes it's good. But if you want people to be held accountable for bad cars, then you should blame the aero guys, design teams, CFD and wind tunnel guys, and drivers as well, because they are the ones who're providing the real world feedback. And Vettel's been in F1 for 14 years, and if he still can't provide adequate feedbacks, then the problem isn't solely on Ferrari.

My statement is pretty simple. A driver should give his best, regardless how the car is. Drivers, especially Ferrari drivers, shouldn't be making mistakes left-right. It's you with your bollywood logic can't gasp that simple fact. "What about other drivers", yeah...you worry about "other drivers" and let us worry about Ferrari drivers.

Yeah finally you got to the actual point. Drivers feedback is valuable, but taking those into consideration & foresee the department are aligned on giving the actual performance too important.
If you don’t give the best car, at least give them the strong car not the mediocre one.

My point is simple. No vettel/No binotto, everyone is accountable to their roles. If Leclerc too make mistakes, ferrari will look for another star driver for the next cycle. But where do engineers fit into this category?
Alonso drove with Ferrari it was SD leading the TP role. Alonso left, SD was sacked to other department.
Vettel was with ferrari 2014-2020, we had 2 strong cars in which one of them in unreliable. What about other 4 seasons?

Drivers package looks more visible, what about other like engineer who are doing their job with no performance & still drawing the best package aren’t they heavy to ferrari? Only driver with 40mil$ looks heavy?

[tifosi1993]

Yeah finally you got to the actual point. Drivers feedback is valuable, but taking those into consideration & foresee the department are aligned on giving the actual performance too important.
If you don’t give the best car, at least give them the strong car not the mediocre one.

My point is simple. No vettel/No binotto, everyone is accountable to their roles. If Leclerc too make mistakes, ferrari will look for another star driver for the next cycle. But where do engineers fit into this category?
Alonso drove with Ferrari it was SD leading the TP role. Alonso left, SD was sacked to other department.
Vettel was with ferrari 2014-2020, we had 2 strong cars in which one of them in unreliable. What about other 4 seasons?

Drivers package looks more visible, what about other like engineer who are doing their job with no performance & still drawing the best package aren’t they heavy to ferrari? Only driver with 40mil$ looks heavy?

Again, you are talking about "whataboutism". So yeah, what about other 4 seasons? He literally never had one single clean season. Every season he made mistakes. And it got more costly when the car was good.

Now you're blaming reliability. 2018 car had 100% reliability record, the 2017 car had reliability problems, but was it more unreliable compared to the 2017 Mercedes? No it wasn't. So yet another deflection and false distinction from your part.

If the 2017 car was more unreliable than Mercedes, sure blame it on the car. But Vettel lost 50 points by his own accord, in Baku and Singapore, and especially Singapore which costed Ferrari an easy one-two. To me that's a far bigger factor than 2017 Ferrari's reliability.

You have been bashing Binotto and the pit-crews, while literally turning a blind eye on Vettel's numerus mistakes. Yesterday when he spun, you again tried to deflect it by saying "other drivers did it too".

The reason for Vettel's departure shouldn't be attributed only to his crashes and spins. One of the biggest factor is Leclerc, and who has already proven himself to be a better driver than Vettel.

[nani_s23]

Again, you are talking about "whataboutism". So yeah, what about other 4 seasons? He literally never had one single clean season. Every season he made mistakes. And it got more costly when the car was good.

Now you're blaming reliability. 2018 car had 100% reliability record, the 2017 car had reliability problems, but was it more unreliable compared to the 2017 Mercedes? No it wasn't. So yet another deflection and false distinction from your part.


If the 2017 car was more unreliable than Mercedes, sure blame it on the car. But Vettel lost 50 points by his own accord, in Baku and Singapore, and especially Singapore which costed Ferrari an easy one-two. To me that's a far bigger factor than 2017 Ferrari's reliability.

You have been bashing Binotto and the pit-crews, while literally turning a blind eye on Vettel's numerus mistakes. Yesterday when he spun, you again tried to deflect it by saying "other drivers did it too".

The reason for Vettel's departure shouldn't be attributed only to his crashes and spins. One of the biggest factor is Leclerc, and who has already proven himself to be a better driver than Vettel.

When i said 2018 was a strong car under MA, where he was handling it perfect. You replied no it was not by tobacco man, but by SM.
On the similar note, I’ve said 2014/2015/2016 cars where binotto was involved too then reply was oh no it was Not binotto it’s JA.
Now Binotto didn’t have a clean season, didn’t do 26 mistakes, he will end up at Merc/RB. Glad that you know his future contract outside ferrari

Just go through your postings once again, going Like a crazy without a meaningless content.

[tifosi1993]

When i said 2018 was a strong car under MA, where he was handling it perfect. You replied no it was not by tobacco man, but by SM.
On the similar note, I’ve said 2014/2015/2016 cars where binotto was involved too then reply was oh no it was Not binotto it’s JA.
Now Binotto didn’t have a clean season, didn’t do 26 mistakes, he will end up at Merc/RB. Glad that you know his future contract outside ferrari

Just go through your postings once again, going Like a crazy without a meaningless content.

So you blame they guy who wasn't a TD back in 2014-January of 2016 for the cars like 2014-2016 Ferrari's. Ok.
So according to you, Andy Cowell should be credited for Merc's aero performance.
According to you, MA did all the work. And if he was here right now, all would be good. Yeah...like Ferrari was the epitome of leadership under MA. There was no problem whatsoever. So I do wonder why Ferrari remained title less under his reign? Since you are attributing everyone's faults, especially Vettel, on Binotto. Then you should apply the same logic here.

Have you ever heard about the individual known as Sergio Marchionne? The man who promoted Binotto to TD role, and whom always wanted Binotto to replace MA as the TP? And Leclerc to replace Raikkonen? I don't think you have.

But you are right. No point having meaningless discussion with someone who doesn't even understand the role of a TD and TP, and always has to resort to "Whataboutothers" when Vettel crashes or spins. But lets see what happens next year. When Ferrari will have a upgraded engine, something they properly worked on, and Leclerc-Sainz lineup delivering results. But then you'd probably still blame Binotto for some weird reasons.

[nani_s23]

So you blame they guy who wasn't a TD back in 2014-January of 2016 for the cars like 2014-2016 Ferrari's. Ok.
So according to you, Andy Cowell should be credited for Merc's aero performance.
According to you, MA did all the work. And if he was here right now, all would be good. Yeah...like Ferrari was the epitome of leadership under MA. There was no problem whatsoever. So I do wonder why Ferrari remained title less under his reign? Since you are attributing everyone's faults, especially Vettel, on Binotto. Then you should apply the same logic here.

Have you ever heard about the individual known as Sergio Marchionne? The man who promoted Binotto to TD role, and whom always wanted Binotto to replace MA as the TP? And Leclerc to replace Raikkonen? I don't think you have.

But you are right. No point having meaningless discussion with someone who doesn't even understand the role of a TD and TP, and always has to resort to "Whataboutothers" when Vettel crashes or spins. But lets see what happens next year. When Ferrari will have a upgraded engine, something they properly worked on, and Leclerc-Sainz lineup delivering results. But then you'd probably still blame Binotto for some weird reasons.

That’s why I call again & again baseless posts without actual content.

I’ve said the same 10-13 races more to go? 10-13 times vettel will spin & 13 posts from you on every spin.
But after that ? Whom you gonna blame ? Sainz? for not giving the feedback ? Or Charles not winning the championship with slower car?

I’m really eager to see your posts after vettel’s exit. , more eager than our team come back.

[tifosi1993]

That’s why I call again & again baseless posts without actual content.

I’ve said the same 10-13 races more to go? 10-13 times vettel will spin & 13 posts from you on every spin.
But after that ? Whom you gonna blame ? Sainz? for not giving the feedback ? Or Charles not winning the championship with slower car?

I’m really eager to see your posts after vettel’s exit. , more eager than our team come back.

Again whataboutism. Bringing up Charles, Sainz and what not. How desperate can you be.
When Vettel spins or bins the car on the wall, there's always gonna be complains from me. But for a die hard Vettel fan, than can be incomprehensible.

And you're more eager about my posts than Ferrari's resurgence? WOW.

At least you are not pretending to be a Ferrari fan anymore, so that's good.

[nani_s23]

Again whataboutism. Bringing up Charles, Sainz and what not. How desperate can you be.
When Vettel spins or bins the car on the wall, there's always gonna be complains from me. But for a die hard Vettel fan, than can be incomprehensible.

And you're more eager about my posts than Ferrari's resurgence? WOW.

At least you are not pretending to be a Ferrari fan anymore, so that's good.

Yeah the way you pretend to be ferrari fan with one agenda . I’ve learnt the most from you. Anti vettel posts.
For your craziness I’m adding myself into it with binotto

Yeah desperate, because you have the crystal ball right.? Binotto will go to Merc/RB. Next year we will have a strong car

[tifosi1993]

Yeah the way you pretend to be ferrari fan with one agenda . I’ve learnt the most from you. Anti vettel posts.
For your craziness I’m adding myself into it with binotto

Yeah desperate, because you have the crystal ball right.? Binotto will go to Merc/RB. Next year we will have a strong car

I hoping next years car is going to be strong. That's what fans do. Wishing for a strong car is nothing to laugh at. Pathetic.
And if Binotto leaves he will get a job at another team, again there's nothing to laugh at. So it's better if Binotto stays with Ferrari, and what's more, Luis Camilleri said the same thing, so its doesn't matter if a die hard Vettel fan like yourself being salty about it.

Maybe you have joined this forum for some Vettel lovefest. But that's simply not possible, considering his performance as a Ferrari driver.

[nani_s23]

I hoping next years car is going to be strong. That's what fans do. Wishing for a strong car is nothing to laugh at. Pathetic.
And if Binotto leaves he will get a job at another team, again there's nothing to laugh at. So it's better if Binotto stays with Ferrari, and what's more, Luis Camilleri said the same thing, so its doesn't matter if a die hard Vettel fan like yourself being salty about it.

Maybe you have joined this forum for some Vettel lovefest. But that's simply not possible, considering his performance as a Ferrari driver.

Binotto die hard fan getting crazy . If someone talks against binotto they are vettel fans

When I’m talking about TP role, you are talking about vettel spin
When I’m talking about Binnoto TP role is useless, you are talking about vettels
‘S 26 mistakes
When I’m talking about Binnoto cheap politics to become TP (you might not remember there was a article where it was mentioned binotto will move out of Ferrari if not given TP role) (check 2018 posts), you were talking about Vettel cross talking.....

It seems you are desperate about vettel, May be a nightmare

[JPMFerrari]

Bring back Ross Brawn, problem solved.

[nani_s23]

Bring back Ross Brawn, problem solved.

He was offered, but not willing to come back.

I think if we can pitch in James Key/Andy.... May be we stand at good chance.