Renault protest Racing Point

[Greig]

On the grounds they have copied the Merc....

[Schumiklub]

Let’s see what happens. I doubt anything will though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[nani_s23]

On the grounds they have copied the Merc....

RP will take reference as haas, which was called ferrari B car earlier days.

[Redfive]

Interesting.

if only someone could protest Mercedes for having an unfair advantage. haha

[stefa]

Nothing will happen!

[FerrariF60]

On the grounds they have copied the Merc....

And what, you’re not allowed to copy another car? Is it in the rules?

[jgonzalesm6]

No biggie.

Protests happen all the time in F1.

Racing Point has submitted their 2020 car renderings to the FIA via photo's only of the W10.

Nothing will happen.

Renault is doing this because they are getting beat by Racing Point. Fair enough.

[tifosi1993]

No biggie.

Protests happen all the time in F1.

Racing Point has submitted their 2020 car renderings to the FIA via photo's only of the W10.

Nothing will happen.

Renault is doing this because they are getting beat by Racing Point. Fair enough.

It's not that simple. The FIA stewards have already impounded Racing Point's brake ducts, Mercedes now has to provide their own brake samples (2019) for comparison.

And let's not forget, Toto is a shareholder in Aston Martin. And next year Racing Point will become Aston Martin Racing.

And I don't think Renault will do something like this just for some WCC points, they clearly think they have a solid case against Racing/Tracing Point.

[tifosi1993]

Here's the brake ducts:

[jgonzalesm6]

Here's the brake ducts:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ERKHgQdX0AAgWlD.jpg

Merc used 4 different type of brake ducts for 2019

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EcwJqpZX...name=4096x4096

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EcwJyfBX...jpg&name=large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EcwJz_YW...name=4096x4096

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EcwJ1G0W...name=4096x4096


It's gonna be hard for the FIA pin that one down.

[jgonzalesm6]

BREAKING NEWS!!!!

Ferrari under protest for copying Williams.

[WS6TransAm01]

Nothing will happen. Merc own the FIA at this point. Everything they do is kosher and everything their competitors do is against the rules.

[Cavallino]

I mean unless action is taken against Mercedes too because they were complicit in the whole thing than I don't really care.

What will they do to racing point? Ban them from the championship? Or maybe they'll pull a Ferrari and take a deal to be a midfield team for 2 years. Oh wait.

[killer]

Merc used 4 different type of brake ducts for 2019

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EcwJqpZX...name=4096x4096

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EcwJyfBX...jpg&name=large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EcwJz_YW...name=4096x4096

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EcwJ1G0W...name=4096x4096


It's gonna be hard for the FIA pin that one down.

They may need to get them on just one. Any part on a car should be "[xxx] designed by it [xxx]" appears to be the key clause for the protest. Interested to see how this pans out (most likely nothing will come of it).

[Hornet]

And what, you’re not allowed to copy another car? Is it in the rules?

If I'm not mistaken, there are rules to stop teams from taking all the design from another team, as a way around the development restriction.
Imagine if Merc hand over their entire 2019 car design to RP. RP would immediately have an advantage already, and they can spend their development allowance on further improving on what was already develop by Merc last year.

This is a huge deal especially for the mid field teams who are trying to compete with team, because RP would already have a huge advantage over them without needing to do the actual development work. They will never catch up with RP

Copying is different, because teams still have to do their own development work to come up with their own interpretation of other people's design.

[SS454]

Here's the brake ducts:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ERKHgQdX0AAgWlD.jpg

There's enough minor differences to show RP developed their own.

It's really not that hard to do even if they had all the blueprints and measurements from mercedes. They just need to make a few minor changes all over the car and it'll be different by 1-2%.

[killer]

There's enough minor differences to show RP developed their own.

It's really not that hard to do even if they had all the blueprints and measurements from mercedes. They just need to make a few minor changes all over the car and it'll be different by 1-2%.

The FIA just declared the Renault protest admissible. Front and rear brake ducts of the RP cars have been impounded.

https://www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/2...enault-protest

Let me qualify my earlier post and from the article: "While some components, known as non-listed parts, are allowed to be bought from rivals, listed parts, which include the aerodynamic surfaces of the car and, for the first time this year, the brake ducts, must be of the team's own design."

[nani_s23]

BREAKING NEWS!!!!

Ferrari under protest for copying Williams.

Are you serious ? But I’m getting laugh ... copying Williams

[SS454]

The FIA just declared the Renault protest admissible. Front and rear brake ducts of the RP cars have been impounded.

https://www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/2...enault-protest

Let me qualify my earlier post and from the article: "While some components, known as non-listed parts, are allowed to be bought from rivals, listed parts, which include the aerodynamic surfaces of the car and, for the first time this year, the brake ducts, must be of the team's own design."

It just means the FIA have accepted to take a look at it. The pictures show there are clearly enough differences that it is not a carbon copy. Everyone knows it's copy of the 2019 Mercedes, and I think it's obvious Racing Point paid Mercedes to get it that close. But given it is not identical, I don't know how they can rule it illegal. The 2004 Sauber was probably just as close to the F2003-GA as this car is to the Merc W10.

[tifosi1993]

Merc used 4 different type of brake ducts for 2019

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EcwJqpZX...name=4096x4096

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EcwJyfBX...jpg&name=large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EcwJz_YW...name=4096x4096

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EcwJ1G0W...name=4096x4096


It's gonna be hard for the FIA pin that one down.

First one is from Australia, don't know about the 2nd and 3rd. The 4th one is the one they had used after Austria 2019.

And it's not just brake ducts, even the upgrades look like copy paste:

[Warp]

They were 7th fastest team last year and now they challenge Redbull ?

Even if FIA declares them legit, its very suspicious. Also did they get it working with their first attempt ? Reverse Engineering isn't that simple and it's not really based only in pictures.

[hakanabi]

First one is from Australia, don't know about the 2nd and 3rd. The 4th one is the one they had used after Austria 2019.

And it's not just brake ducts, even the upgrades look like copy paste:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ETUXSEcWkAYJIg8.jpg

Wow, that looks pretty much copy and paste to me. Can't see any diffrence between those pictures. How do they get away with all this just baffles me.

[Greig]

It just means the FIA have accepted to take a look at it. The pictures show there are clearly enough differences that it is not a carbon copy. Everyone knows it's copy of the 2019 Mercedes, and I think it's obvious Racing Point paid Mercedes to get it that close. But given it is not identical, I don't know how they can rule it illegal. The 2004 Sauber was probably just as close to the F2003-GA as this car is to the Merc W10.

There was no rules against the 2004 Sauber to do that though, there is rules against what Racing Point have done.

[jgonzalesm6]

Are you serious ? But I’m getting laugh ... copying Williams

yeah, it was a joke.

First one is from Australia, don't know about the 2nd and 3rd. The 4th one is the one they had used after Austria 2019.

And it's not just brake ducts, even the upgrades look like copy paste:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ETUXSEcWkAYJIg8.jpg

Merc's uprgrades are constantly changing thoughout the season whether it's aero, suspension or in the PU.

Racing Point is "extremely disappointed" in "misconceived and a poorly informed protest. Any & all suggestion of wrongdoing is firmly rejected". Team "co-operated with FIA and satisfactorily answered all questions re origins of designs of RP20". "Confident" the protest will be dismissed.


https://www.racefans.net/2020/07/13/...inst-its-cars/

[Greig]

If FIA allow Racing Point to copy the Merc bolt by bolt then next year we will just see every other team doing it.

[nani_s23]

If FIA allow Racing Point to copy the Merc bolt by bolt then next year we will just see every other team doing it.

Yes

[jgonzalesm6]

If FIA allow Racing Point to copy the Merc bolt by bolt then next year we will just see every other team doing it.

Yes

Lawrence Stroll has a stake in Aston Martin. In fact, he's trying to turn the company around and the name change n his F1 cars in 2021.

Toto Wolff has a stake in Aston Martin.

So with that being said OUTSIDE OF F1......I'll just leave it at that.

Yes, the RP20 "looks" like the W10. It's been approved by the FIA.

As far as other teams copying it "bolt for bolt"...I doubt it. Again, Mercedes upgrades the car given the track....constantly....which takes alot of money and personnel...which other teams cannot match with the exception of Ferrari and Redbull.....which RedBull does'nt need to.....maybe Ferrari given its current situation....but I doubt it.

[Greig]

As far as other teams copying it "bolt for bolt"...I doubt it. Again, Mercedes upgrades the car given the track....constantly....which takes alot of money and personnel...which other teams cannot match with the exception of Ferrari and Redbull.....which RedBull does'nt need to.....maybe Ferrari given its current situation....but I doubt it.

If Racing Point can do it then so can any other team.

[jgonzalesm6]

If Racing Point can do it then so can any other team.

They can try...but like I stated earlier in my post.....Lawrence Stroll and Toto Wolff are "buddies"outside of F1. The two are rarely seen together in the Paddock for 2020. In 2019, they were seen together quite extensively.

[wisepie]

It's not that simple. The FIA stewards have already impounded Racing Point's brake ducts, Mercedes now has to provide their own brake samples (2019) for comparison.

And let's not forget, Toto is a shareholder in Aston Martin. And next year Racing Point will become Aston Martin Racing.

And I don't think Renault will do something like this just for some WCC points, they clearly think they have a solid case against Racing/Tracing Point.

My sentiments exactly, if the FIA went to so much trouble when Merc and RB protested about our engine last year, it's only fair! All is not what it seems and we have an F2 car this year.