Has Mercedes been cheating? Possible corrupt FIA?

[tifosi1993]

Ferrari have on the test bench new 2021 engine without Andy Covell. They work very hard for this 2021 engine and I am optimist it can be better than Mercedes v6 engine 2020.

I had no problem with Ferrari's engine "tricks", I hope they do it again with next years engine as well, and hopefully this time it will produce more HP than ever before. Ferrari had the best PU's in both 2018 and 2019, it's time to reclaim that position again, by any means necessary.

[SS454]

thousands of data? Where's your proof? Can you show me dialogue from other teams that complained about the tires? Again what does Vettel agreeing afterwards have to do with Pirelli making a tire change because Mercedes specifically had problems? Does Vettel have the last say?

Didn't affect Ferrari one bit? So you're saying that the most influential part of any car (the tires) being altered had no affect on Ferrari's car? wow.

Before trying to run on about about a moving object changes, we both know I am referring to the static ride height changes when the alignment gets altered. I can be dumb as rocks if it makes you happy, but this was stated by people working in Formula 1. Mechanical setup being the toe alignment, which has an affect on caster and camber as well. This is locked into the setup as per parc ferme rules. However DAS clearly allows a driver to manually change these settings during the race.

I don't need to watch the Canadian GP. If you think that rejoin was on the same level as Monza, you clearly are stuck in your own distorted reality that there is no point to discuss with you further. I do remember Vettel was the very first guy to "appeal" the decision when he swapped his 2nd place board with Lewis'. Pretty obviously he didn't agree with the ruling.

I like Vettel and Red Bull? Again, you're own distorted reality.

Why do you bother posting in this thread? It's been stated already that Mercedes have not been proven guilty of anything, but there is substance enough for people to discuss possibilities that they might think. No harm in a discussion right? If you believe Mercedes, and all teams are squeaky clean and don't ever "cheat" or that corruption doesn't exist in high levels of sports, then you need to get out of your mom's basement and look at the real world. I'll break the first bit of bad news to you..... there is no Tooth Ferry. Good luck.

[JPZ]

I had no problem with Ferrari's engine "tricks", I hope they do it again with next years engine as well, and hopefully this time it will produce more HP than ever before. Ferrari had the best PU's in both 2018 and 2019, it's time to reclaim that position again, by any means necessary.

Hopefully that is their plan. To not disclose the nature of the methods or technology they are using and continue to use it in future engines.

If using the 2019 engine instead of basically a 2017 engine they would have been able to challenge Mercedes this year. Strange how Mercedes can get away with a retractable steering column which will be illegal next year but Ferrari has to abandon their engine for one several years old.

Could be they agreed to use the older so they would not have to disclose the technology and believe they will still be able to use it.

[tifosi1993]

Proof? F1 is a data centric sport. But of course, ******* like you only want to look for conspiracies and what not. Your tiny brain can't process anything else. So again, show the world your conclusive proofs of Mercedes being cheats. Put up or shut up.

And really, have you been hibernating or something. I know Canada is cold, but come on. Ferrari's performance remained the same after that "tiny" construction changes, as evident by Vettel winning the Canadian GP. I guess you have missed your countries own GP, since you were busy hibernating.

And I'm yet to see any official protest regarding the DAS. Which tells me, other teams, apart from your beloved Red Bull that is, have no problem with the DAS. And more importantly, I have yet see to any protest from Ferrari. And Ferrari previously considered using the DAS, but they didn't because they "didn’t clarify with the FIA at the time". But I'm sure you would have accused Ferrari of being cheats as well, just like your beloved Red Bull and Marko would.

And of course you're not going to watch, and why would you anyway. To you, Vettel's silly antics after the race is more important than any official protest from Ferrari. But Vettel fanboys are only going to focus on Vettel, that's hardly surprising. Again, there was no protest from Ferrari regarding Vettel's penalty.

As I've said before, bitter and lazy haters accused Ferrari of being cheats in the past. And that same bitter and lazy fools doing the same with Mercedes now. And please, don't lecture me about the 'real world', you conspiracy nutjob. Stop obsessing about Mercedes, Marko, Vettel, Moms and basements and focus on the reality. Best teams will always win. End of discussion.

[tifosi1993]

Hopefully that is their plan. To not disclose the nature of the methods or technology they are using and continue to use it in future engines.

If using the 2019 engine instead of basically a 2017 engine they would have been able to challenge Mercedes this year. Strange how Mercedes can get away with a retractable steering column which will be illegal next year but Ferrari has to abandon their engine for one several years old.

Could be they agreed to use the older so they would not have to disclose the technology and believe they will still be able to use it.

As I said, "any means necessary". F1 isn't about winning the popularity or moral contest, Ferrari needs to think outside the box to gain back the lost HP. Currently we are giving away 7 tenths/per lap because of the engine alone, and no amount of new aero parts will ever solve that deficit.

[Brembo]

With Charles on the podium , nothing but pure optimism for Ferrari. Making due with what he has is a sure sign of a great driver to have on any team. Ferrari's lucky to have him!

[JPZ]

As I said, "any means necessary". F1 isn't about winning the popularity or moral contest, Ferrari needs to think outside the box to gain back the lost HP. Currently we are giving away 7 tenths/per lap because of the engine alone, and no amount of new aero parts will ever solve that deficit.

Agreed.

[Silent Bob]

The only thing Marko is good at is destroying a young drivers career. And Marko has been saying lots of things, like how they had the best winter of all and how they gonna challenge Mercedes....as I said whatever Marko says hardly worth any value. But if his words make you happy and give you conviction of Mercedes being cheats, then whatever. I'm not here to change peoples mind.

And as I've said before, it's utterly ridiculous to suggest that Ferrari is spending millions of millions of money every year while knowing pretty well that they are getting ****** by the FIA and Mercedes. Words are cheap. Show us the evidence of FIA favoring Mercedes and vice versa, and it has to be absolute proof. But just like the flat earther can't provide the evidence of earth being flat, you can't either. It's nothing but bitter rants.

Maybe it's time for you to take a breath and settle down and maybe stop with the attitude and name calling. I stated that Merc might be getting preferential treatment. I didn't say they were cheating. When they got this engine formula approved, they pushed for it because they knew they had a tech edge on the others. That is a pretty big win for them, gotten because they forced the issue. There have been lots of instances when rules have been changed during a season to outlaw devices or close loopholes. This didn't happen with DAS. It was allowed to be used and then outlawed next year. Seems like a pretty good arrangement for Merc. Our floor in 2017 passed all FIA inspection sand then had to be changed during the season. FIA installed sensors on our battery system and more on our engine. How many on the Mercs? The tires Merc fought for with the shallower tread suited their car better. They fought for that and got it regardless of who agreed.. they were the loudest voice and they got what they wanted and it helped them.

Oh and your rant against DAS... DAS adjusts the toe of the car not the camber. If it did, it would be outlawed as that is not allowed, but large adjustments of toe can alter camber so I'm still not sure why it's been allowed as making adjustments to front wheels after parc ferme is strictly forbidden, but Merc gets another pass. So it helps to know what you're arguing against.

[tifosi1993]

Maybe it's time for you to take a breath and settle down and maybe stop with the attitude and name calling. I stated that Merc might be getting preferential treatment. I didn't say they were cheating. When they got this engine formula approved, they pushed for it because they knew they had a tech edge on the others. That is a pretty big win for them, gotten because they forced the issue. There have been lots of instances when rules have been changed during a season to outlaw devices or close loopholes. This didn't happen with DAS. It was allowed to be used and then outlawed next year. Seems like a pretty good arrangement for Merc. Our floor in 2017 passed all FIA inspection sand then had to be changed during the season. FIA installed sensors on our battery system and more on our engine. How many on the Mercs? The tires Merc fought for with the shallower tread suited their car better. They fought for that and got it regardless of who agreed.. they were the loudest voice and they got what they wanted and it helped them.

Oh and your rant against DAS... DAS adjusts the toe of the car not the camber. If it did, it would be outlawed as that is not allowed, but large adjustments of toe can alter camber so I'm still not sure why it's been allowed as making adjustments to front wheels after parc ferme is strictly forbidden, but Merc gets another pass. So it helps to know what you're arguing against.

My tone is completely fine, lately this forum has been filled with 40+ year old man childs, always throwing their toys out of their pram and all those whining, complaining and conspiracy theories, it is getting ridiculous. If the current state of F1 takes your blood pressure off the roof, and giving you silly ideas like the FIA sabotaging Ferrari and giving Mercedes preferential treatments, may be it's time to follow another sport. It's a bit like "Fergie Time", only it's F1's version of Fergie Time.

And I know what DAS does, but unlike others, I'm not pretending to be an expert. The DAS allows Mercedes drivers to steer the wheel in and out, so that track rods move in opposite directions, instead of moving together when it is left and right. And if your argument is, as Red Bull's was, that the DAS allows Mercedes to influence the ride height, then it's not an good argument. Steering also influences ride height, so if you want to ban DAS then F1 needs to ban conventional steering as well. DAS is basically doing exactly the same thing the normal steering does, it's just moving the wheels in opposite direction. If it's altering the ride height then so is turning the wheel normally.

But I've wasted enough time arguing with conspiracy theorists. You go ahead and believe whatever you want.

[SS454]

Proof? F1 is a data centric sport. But of course, ******* like you only want to look for conspiracies and what not. Your tiny brain can't process anything else. So again, show the world your conclusive proofs of Mercedes being cheats. Put up or shut up.

And really, have you been hibernating or something. I know Canada is cold, but come on. Ferrari's performance remained the same after that "tiny" construction changes, as evident by Vettel winning the Canadian GP. I guess you have missed your countries own GP, since you were busy hibernating.

And I'm yet to see any official protest regarding the DAS. Which tells me, other teams, apart from your beloved Red Bull that is, have no problem with the DAS. And more importantly, I have yet see to any protest from Ferrari. And Ferrari previously considered using the DAS, but they didn't because they "didn’t clarify with the FIA at the time". But I'm sure you would have accused Ferrari of being cheats as well, just like your beloved Red Bull and Marko would.

And of course you're not going to watch, and why would you anyway. To you, Vettel's silly antics after the race is more important than any official protest from Ferrari. But Vettel fanboys are only going to focus on Vettel, that's hardly surprising. Again, there was no protest from Ferrari regarding Vettel's penalty.

As I've said before, bitter and lazy haters accused Ferrari of being cheats in the past. And that same bitter and lazy fools doing the same with Mercedes now. And please, don't lecture me about the 'real world', you conspiracy nutjob. Stop obsessing about Mercedes, Marko, Vettel, Moms and basements and focus on the reality. Best teams will always win. End of discussion.

Nice attitude. Really shows your character.

[Silent Bob]

My tone is completely fine, lately this forum has been filled with 40+ year old man childs, always throwing their toys out of their pram and all those whining, complaining and conspiracy theories, it is getting ridiculous. If the current state of F1 takes your blood pressure off the roof, and giving you silly ideas like the FIA sabotaging Ferrari and giving Mercedes preferential treatments, may be it's time to follow another sport. It's a bit like "Fergie Time", only it's F1's version of Fergie Time.

And I know what DAS does, but unlike others, I'm not pretending to be an expert. The DAS allows Mercedes drivers to steer the wheel in and out, so that track rods move in opposite directions, instead of moving together when it is left and right. And if your argument is, as Red Bull's was, that the DAS allows Mercedes to influence the ride height, then it's not an good argument. Steering also influences ride height, so if you want to ban DAS then F1 needs to ban conventional steering as well. DAS is basically doing exactly the same thing the normal steering does, it's just moving the wheels in opposite direction. If it's altering the ride height then so is turning the wheel normally.

But I've wasted enough time arguing with conspiracy theorists. You go ahead and believe whatever you want.

Well you may say you're not an expert but you always seem to have something to say. This forum has pretty much the same people that have been here for many years. Seems like you have issues with some posters' opinions and always feel the need to comment and tell them how wrong they are. And yes turning wheels do affect ride height, but they are turning in the same direction. merc exploited a loophole and the FIA is letting them use it for the whole season when many times in the past stuff like this has been banned quite quickly. But nothing to see here. Sorry if my lame arguments are so boring and ridiculous to you. But I won't waste anymore of your time... you probably have so many more important things to do than up you post count.

[tifosi1993]

Nice attitude. Really shows your character.

Let's see: " you clearly are stuck in your own distorted reality that there is no point to discuss with you further", then why you're replying to my post again.
"Again, you're own distorted reality", distorted only for conspiracy theorists.
"Why do you bother posting in this thread?", Because I can. Nowhere it says: this place is only for crazies, normal people are not allowed to post here.
"you need to get out of your mom's basement and look at the real world.", And you have problem with my attitude.

Maybe cut the condescending tone next time. If you throw rocks at other people, then be ready for counter attack.

[tifosi1993]

Well you may say you're not an expert but you always seem to have something to say. This forum has pretty much the same people that have been here for many years. Seems like you have issues with some posters' opinions and always feel the need to comment and tell them how wrong they are. And yes turning wheels do affect ride height, but they are turning in the same direction. merc exploited a loophole and the FIA is letting them use it for the whole season when many times in the past stuff like this has been banned quite quickly. But nothing to see here. Sorry if my lame arguments are so boring and ridiculous to you. But I won't waste anymore of your time... you probably have so many more important things to do than up you post count.

And it seems you have urgent need to reply to my posts. It wasn't like I was discussing with you or anything. My original post wasn't directed to anyone.
Post counts? not really a concern to me. But it seems you have so much "busy" time in your hand, you always have to keep an eye on other peoples post count. Whatever.

"FIA is letting them use it for the whole season when many times in the past stuff like this has been banned quite quickly. But nothing to see here." Yeah, you are right. Because there's really nothing to see here. And its not the first time either, FIA had done the same thing in the past as well. Like when they allowed Mclaren's F-duct for one year, then banned it next year. Finding "loopholes" is part of the game. So you can keep your lame arguments (honest words) to yourself and keep believing the Mercedes bad-Red Bull good narrative.

[Silent Bob]

And it seems you have urgent need to reply to my posts. It wasn't like I was discussing with you or anything. My original post wasn't directed to anyone.
Post counts? not really a concern to me. But it seems you have so much "busy" time in your hand, you always have to keep an eye on other peoples post count. Whatever.

"FIA is letting them use it for the whole season when many times in the past stuff like this has been banned quite quickly. But nothing to see here." Yeah, you are right. Because there's really nothing to see here. And its not the first time either, FIA had done the same thing in the past as well. Like when they allowed Mclaren's F-duct for one year, then banned it next year. Finding "loopholes" is part of the game. So you can keep your lame arguments (honest words) to yourself and keep believing the Mercedes bad-Red Bull good narrative.

Oh boy. You really hate it when someone doesn't agree with you.

[Brembo]

Oh boy. You really hate it when someone doesn't agree with you.

Do not go "Silent!" Bob, your posts are great. Down force is all you need !

[Brembo]

Not to exaggerate, and give superhuman powers to him!? He had like 50 second advantage over MV, and lest than a half a lap!

Who got him the 50 second advantage with just 1/2 a lap to go? That's some lead indeed. The 3 wheel victory and Charles' podium made the race great to watch. Again, almost zero points for Merc!

[stefa]

Who got him the 50 second advantage with just 1/2 a lap to go? That's some lead indeed. The 3 wheel victory and Charles' podium made the race great to watch. Again, almost zero points for Merc!

You ask who got him?! Really?! Mercedes with out of the this F1 class car! I really do believe, that he is driving races with max 70 to 80% of capabilities of that car! Even with that he got him self 50 sec advantage and without a sweat!

[Brembo]

You ask who got him?! Really?! Mercedes with out of the this F1 class car! I really do believe, that he is driving races with max 70 to 80% of capabilities of that car! Even with that he got him self 50 sec advantage and without a sweat!

95% of the cars capabilities were gone last race, last lap, when Lewis saved Merc and himself from scoring zero points. I agree with you that he's using say 80% of the cars capabilities max, the rest is his driving abilities. I can't help but laugh when fans here insinuate that any driver including Lewis should only be considered true WDC champions come the end of the year if they are driving for say Williams or any other bottom finishing team. Anyway Charles to the podium or pole next race!!!

[stefa]

95% of the cars capabilities were gone last race, last lap, when Lewis saved Merc and himself from scoring zero points. I agree with you that he's using say 80% of the cars capabilities max, the rest is his driving abilities. I can't help but laugh when fans here insinuate that any driver including Lewis should only be considered true WDC champions come the end of the year if they are driving for say Williams or any other bottom finishing team. Anyway Charles to the podium or pole next race!!!

[aroutis]

My tone is completely fine, lately this forum has been filled with 40+ year old man childs, always throwing their toys out of their pram and all those whining, complaining and conspiracy theories, it is getting ridiculous. If the current state of F1 takes your blood pressure off the roof, and giving you silly ideas like the FIA sabotaging Ferrari and giving Mercedes preferential treatments, may be it's time to follow another sport. It's a bit like "Fergie Time", only it's F1's version of Fergie Time.

And I know what DAS does, but unlike others, I'm not pretending to be an expert. The DAS allows Mercedes drivers to steer the wheel in and out, so that track rods move in opposite directions, instead of moving together when it is left and right. And if your argument is, as Red Bull's was, that the DAS allows Mercedes to influence the ride height, then it's not an good argument. Steering also influences ride height, so if you want to ban DAS then F1 needs to ban conventional steering as well. DAS is basically doing exactly the same thing the normal steering does, it's just moving the wheels in opposite direction. If it's altering the ride height then so is turning the wheel normally.

But I've wasted enough time arguing with conspiracy theorists. You go ahead and believe whatever you want.

No, your tone is not fine. If you cannot calm down, there are pills to help you.

[Brembo]

I can dream , can't I ? Please don't listen to Binotto. He will have me watching baseball!

[Brembo]

No, your tone is not fine. If you cannot calm down, there are pills to help you.

Also good wine from France , Italy and Argentina. It works for me.

[jgonzalesm6]

No, your tone is not fine. If you cannot calm down, there are pills to help you.

Seems calm to me aroutis re: tifosi1993.

Also his tone seems calm to me as well. That's just my opinion.

[JPZ]

Who got him the 50 second advantage with just 1/2 a lap to go? That's some lead indeed. The 3 wheel victory and Charles' podium made the race great to watch. Again, almost zero points for Merc!

Made the last 3 laps interesting to watch.

The rest of the race was extremely boring and showed the worst of F1 in the current era.

[Silent Bob]

I can dream , can't I ? Please don't listen to Binotto. He will have me watching baseball!

Better a dream than this nightmare, but it looks like Binotto has changed his tune since he's no longer TD. He's picked up some of your positivity. Maybe Leclerc might have a chance at pole or a win.

Also good wine from France , Italy and Argentina. It works for me.

Hey. What about Canada? We have some decent wine. Although I'm, more of a beer guy.

Seems calm to me aroutis re: tifosi1993.

Also his tone seems calm to me as well. That's just my opinion.

If name calling, denigrating, belittling posters is calm... ok then, I respect your opinion.

[tifosi1993]

Seems calm to me aroutis re: tifosi1993.

Also his tone seems calm to me as well. That's just my opinion.

And I haven't received a single ban or suspension, and been posting here since Jul 2012.

Oh I see you've got over 7,000 posts jgonzalesm6, @silent Bob probably thinks you've got nothing better to do with your life.

[Silent Bob]

And I haven't received a single ban or suspension, and been posting here since Jul 2012.

Oh I see you've got over 7,000 posts jgonzalesm6, @silent Bob probably thinks you've got nothing better to do with your life.

Oh no, not at all. I think jgonzalesm6 posts are pretty good. His are definitely worth reading and not a waste of time at all.

[tifosi1993]

Oh no, not at all. I think jgonzalesm6 posts are pretty good. His are definitely worth reading and not a waste of time at all.

Indeed. Certainly better than all those conspiracy theories, who are definitely wasting everyone's time here.

[jgonzalesm6]

If name calling, denigrating, belittling posters is calm... ok then, I respect your opinion.

What "name calling" did the poster call you??

Deginerating??? Sorry you feel that way.

Belittling?? Come on....please.

Oh no, not at all. I think jgonzalesm6 posts are pretty good. His are definitely worth reading and not a waste of time at all.

Indeed. Certainly better than all those conspiracy theories, who are definitely wasting everyone's time here.

X2

[stefa]

Made the last 3 laps interesting to watch.

The rest of the race was extremely boring and showed the worst of F1 in the current era.

EXACTLY!!! I rest my case!