Has Mercedes been cheating? Possible corrupt FIA?

[Silent Bob]

What "name calling" did the poster call you??

Deginerating??? Sorry you feel that way.

Belittling?? Come on....please.






X2

When you disagree with someone, proving your point is fine, that's good debate. But resorting to name calling, like his last post and previous ones ie. flat earthers, 40 year old man babies, conspiracy theorists or this.."But of course, ******* like you only want to look for conspiracies and what not. Your tiny brain can't process anything else.", doesn't really add anything to this forum or the argument. Belittling? denigrating? I like reading both sides of the debates on this forum and everyone has their opinion. If you don't agree with them then fine... but no need to get nasty. Just my opinion, feel free to disagree.

[jgonzalesm6]

When you disagree with someone, proving your point is fine, that's good debate. But resorting to name calling, like his last post and previous ones ie. flat earthers, 40 year old man babies, conspiracy theorists or this.."But of course, ******* like you only want to look for conspiracies and what not. Your tiny brain can't process anything else.", doesn't really add anything to this forum or the argument. Belittling? denigrating? I like reading both sides of the debates on this forum and everyone has their opinion. If you don't agree with them then fine... but no need to get nasty. Just my opinion, feel free to disagree.

Okay. I guess I grew up different. My dad was military so I tend to have a thicker skin than most.

[SS454]

Indeed. Certainly better than all those conspiracy theories, who are definitely wasting everyone's time here.

Nobody asked you to join the conversation. Either way, you are completely entitled to believe that Mercedes and every other team in Formula 1 are completely legal, and that Ferrari is just a garbage team. Not just a garbage team, but the only team in F1 to cheat. Which I find odd that you applauded the fact Ferrari cheated, and encourage future cheating. That's down right embarrassing to want to be the only cheaters in a sport full of legit, smarter competitors.

[JPZ]

Nobody asked you to join the conversation. Either way, you are completely entitled to believe that Mercedes and every other team in Formula 1 are completely legal, and that Ferrari is just a garbage team. Not just a garbage team, but the only team in F1 to cheat. Which I find odd that you applauded the fact Ferrari cheated, and encourage future cheating. That's down right embarrassing to want to be the only cheaters in a sport full of legit, smarter competitors.

There's no evidence that Ferrari were 'cheating' though.

[SS454]

There's no evidence that Ferrari were 'cheating' though.

Except the fact they lost a massive amount of power?

As nobody knows the agreement Ferrari and the FIA came to after their detailed inspection of the Ferrari power unit, nobody can say if it was clear cut cheating, or exploiting a loophole.... in any case the FIA deemed whatever Ferrari was doing was against the sporting regulations (ie: cheating) and had to stop. So the evidence is that Ferrari were doing something to have the best PU, and the FIA have put a stop to it and now they have the worst PU.

[FerrariF60]

Except the fact they lost a massive amount of power?

As nobody knows the agreement Ferrari and the FIA came to after their detailed inspection of the Ferrari power unit, nobody can say if it was clear cut cheating, or exploiting a loophole.... in any case the FIA deemed whatever Ferrari was doing was against the sporting regulations (ie: cheating) and had to stop. So the evidence is that Ferrari were doing something to have the best PU, and the FIA have put a stop to it and now they have the worst PU.

and now merc have NO competition, they keep on winning championships adn everyone including the FIA are happy....and Ferrari are....well....fighting in the midfield....all this for the "GOOD OF THE SPORT".....whatever that means

[jgonzalesm6]

Nobody asked you to join the conversation. Either way, you are completely entitled to believe that Mercedes and every other team in Formula 1 are completely legal, and that Ferrari is just a garbage team. Not just a garbage team, but the only team in F1 to cheat. Which I find odd that you applauded the fact Ferrari cheated, and encourage future cheating. That's down right embarrassing to want to be the only cheaters in a sport full of legit, smarter competitors.

Ferrari found a "loophole" with the first fuel flow sensor

There's no evidence that Ferrari were 'cheating' though.

yep

Except the fact they lost a massive amount of power?

As nobody knows the agreement Ferrari and the FIA came to after their detailed inspection of the Ferrari power unit, nobody can say if it was clear cut cheating, or exploiting a loophole.... in any case the FIA deemed whatever Ferrari was doing was against the sporting regulations (ie: cheating) and had to stop. So the evidence is that Ferrari were doing something to have the best PU, and the FIA have put a stop to it and now they have the worst PU.

I'm an advocate for finding loopholes in the sport. I've always said, "If you ain't "cheating" or finding the loopholes you're trying hard enough. That goes for any team.

Ferrari got caught (insider???) and are now paying the price for it.

[SS454]

I'm an advocate for finding loopholes in the sport. I've always said, "If you ain't "cheating" or finding the loopholes you're trying hard enough. That goes for any team.

Ferrari got caught (insider???) and are now paying the price for it.

I too am an advocate for finding loopholes. Some "loopholes" are more blatant disregard of regulations than others. The rule book clearly stated a 100 kg/hr fuel flow limit, but Ferrari figured a way around it, which is a bit worse than say burning of the oil, as the rules only specified 100 kg/hr of gasoline . Now if a team was oxygenating their oil, that'd be blatant cheating IMO.

Ferrari lost power when the FIA made some clarifications prior to COTA 2019. A pretty significant drop in power too. It's strange Ferrari lost another huge chunk of power after the FIA's inspection. So it seems Ferrari's efforts went into exploiting this "loophole". I've done some reading on it, and there were several ways to flow well over 100 kg/hr but satisfy the sensors. One was by holding more fuel after the sensor, which allowed for extra fuel to flow through the high pressure fuel pump just prior to the injectors.

What I still find strange is that Ferrari was the only one doing this? If Renault, Honda, and Mercedes weren't/aren't exploiting the same loophole over the last 6 years, then where is their power coming from?

[jgonzalesm6]

I too am an advocate for finding loopholes. Some "loopholes" are more blatant disregard of regulations than others. The rule book clearly stated a 100 kg/hr fuel flow limit, but Ferrari figured a way around it, which is a bit worse than say burning of the oil, as the rules only specified 100 kg/hr of gasoline . Now if a team was oxygenating their oil, that'd be blatant cheating IMO.

Ferrari lost power when the FIA made some clarifications prior to COTA 2019. A pretty significant drop in power too. It's strange Ferrari lost another huge chunk of power after the FIA's inspection. So it seems Ferrari's efforts went into exploiting this "loophole". I've done some reading on it, and there were several ways to flow well over 100 kg/hr but satisfy the sensors. One was by holding more fuel after the sensor, which allowed for extra fuel to flow through the high pressure fuel pump just prior to the injectors.

What I still find strange is that Ferrari was the only one doing this? If Renault, Honda, and Mercedes weren't/aren't exploiting the same loophole over the last 6 years, then where is their power coming from?

Ferrari "tricked" the original fuel flow sensor with their fuel flow regulator to "comply" with the 100kg/hr mandate. The FIA fuel flow sensor would operate during certain intervals. When the original fuel flow sensor was'nt looking, the regulator sent in more fuel. Now with the 2nd fuel flow sensor installed by the FIA, it monitors fuel flow randomly.

Mercedes is the only full works team that has optimized thermal efficiency with their PU, especially in qualifying because once you get P1 during quali, it's pretty much smooth sailing from there in the race...provided you take into account safety cars and tire strat. Renault and Honda are off in hp compared to Mercedes and of course Ferrari is way off in hp. Ferrari is back to 2015 or 2016 hp levels IMO.

Mercedes for 2020 found more hp, whether by fuel or optimizing the PU even more because of the Ferrari threat in 2019. How they are doing it is beyond anyone's guess except for Mercedes. I'm sure we'll know down the road how they are able to get more and more hp through the years of this turbo hybrid era.

[tifosi1993]

Nobody asked you to join the conversation. Either way, you are completely entitled to believe that Mercedes and every other team in Formula 1 are completely legal, and that Ferrari is just a garbage team. Not just a garbage team, but the only team in F1 to cheat. Which I find odd that you applauded the fact Ferrari cheated, and encourage future cheating. That's down right embarrassing to want to be the only cheaters in a sport full of legit, smarter competitors.

You clearly don't know anything aboutt F1 or how it operates. To you, Pirelli changes tyre compounds because Mercedes tells them to do it, according to you all these decisions are arbitrarily taken, not because of gigabyes of data Pirelli collects after every race. You have been going on about DAS and how it changes the ride height, again you are demonstrating your lack of any knowledge or understanding regarding the DAS.
And I've never said Ferrari or any other team are garbage, that's your conclusion no mine. Stop putting your own words into other peoples mouth.

And Ferrari never cheated, there's no evidence of it. They've found a loophole with the fuel flow sensor, and took full advantage of it. And I will forever applaud them for doing it. Finding loopholes are part of the game.
But of course to you, when Ferrari designed a great engine last year, or when Mercedes designs a great car like the current one, they are nothing but cheaters. It really must be weird to follow F1 with such a slanted perspective that this is what the situation actually looked like to you.

[aroutis]

Seems calm to me aroutis re: tifosi1993.

Also his tone seems calm to me as well. That's just my opinion.

I am sorry but we'll have to agree to disagree :)

[stefa]

Mercedes: "Zero worries" on Racing Point F1 copying case

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/15...t-copying-case

[paolo lalli]

The more mercedes keep saying they have zero worries the lowder the bells of deciet ring.Now the wolf yes that Toto is crying about the Concorde agreement.That greedy suck wants it all his way this is purely distraction.His lame defence and reasons leaves one thing for sure changes can not come quick enough to a sport that needs new energy a new direction and fresh oxygen.Frankly iam sick of that character occupying to much space.

[ferrari1.8t]

Mercedes: "Zero worries" on Racing Point F1 copying case

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/15...t-copying-case

Lol, of course Wolff has zero worries. Merc can never be in the wrong, completely protected by the maFIA no matter what. And it’s just as I suspected; another butler to keep Hamilton untouched:

[I]"I see some benefits," he said. "I think we have a team that is competing amongst the front running teams now[/I“

Ferrari, McLaren and Renault are not happy with the results. I’m sure RedBull will join in if they are behind RP this weekend.

https://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id...st-tip-iceberg

[SS454]

It will be interesting to see Renault or other teams take this to a court of appeal. I think it'd be a very difficult case to win as the team being copied (Mercedes) is part of the scheme. If they aren't filing any legal action against RP, how much can actually properly investigated? The FIA has already turned their head to allow this Mercedes/RP saga go on. It was clearly stated that the FIA have been involved in every part of this copygate and saw it to be completely legal, and within the sporting regulations of F1. But after Renault's double protest, the FIA were forced to say.... well maybe it wasn't 100% legal.

Even though Mercedes are a partner in this scam, they worst they could be penalized is a fine. Their own cars haven't been found to be illegal so they can't punish their participation in F1.

This definitely supports my believe that the FIA/F1 is corrupt and Mercedes gets special treatment.

[458 Italia]

It will be interesting to see Renault or other teams take this to a court of appeal. I think it'd be a very difficult case to win as the team being copied (Mercedes) is part of the scheme. If they aren't filing any legal action against RP, how much can actually properly investigated? The FIA has already turned their head to allow this Mercedes/RP saga go on. It was clearly stated that the FIA have been involved in every part of this copygate and saw it to be completely legal, and within the sporting regulations of F1. But after Renault's double protest, the FIA were forced to say.... well maybe it wasn't 100% legal.

Even though Mercedes are a partner in this scam, they worst they could be penalized is a fine. Their own cars haven't been found to be illegal so they can't punish their participation in F1.

This definitely supports my believe that the FIA/F1 is corrupt and Mercedes gets special treatment.

I suppose if they were to find a mercedes serial number on ANY part of their car that would prove then a mercedes car was illegal.

[paneristi]

Corrupt FIA? Definitely. Cheating? The corrupted body made it legal for certain party to do things the way they want by (you know what). That’s why we need someone with strong connection and personality. Not mr. nice guy.

[paolo lalli]

Mcdonalds McLaren back out of appealling Racing point penalties.I smell a wolf.

[paolo lalli]

The FIA needs a total clean out the cupboard smells from top to bottom.Better still buy a new one .

[SS454]

Mcdonalds McLaren back out of appealling Racing point penalties.I smell a wolf.

I won't be surprised if Williams will back out as well, unless they intend to use a different power unit next year. I don't blame McLaren for backing out, they don't want to stop receiving the best engine on the grid by a big margin.

Red Bull needs to stop being wimps and join Ferrari with their protest.

[330 p4]

This is not the main point of what's happening. During all this noise notice how Tracing Point performances have dropped. Just need to keep this going. Secondly bit of a pincer movement politically, Ferrari with Renault officially protesting but Red Bull are playing the media with questioning Mercs role. Merc board are scared of bad publicity true or not. Fuhrer Wolf has a stake in Aston now, Mercs commitment not confirmed (Fuhrer Wolf wants flexibility on new Concorde agreement as 5 years does not allow this?). Dragging the Nazi Taxis name through the dirt is a good way to get rid of them. This is Ferrari flexing their political muscle and getting others on board. Seems a 180 from pre season controversy with teams furious at the Ferrari engine deal. Ferrari agreed to all the new rules and now get others on side. It's all about the long game with new rules for 2022. No point wasting political power on current rules as Merc are too much on the high ground. This is all setting the foundations for 2022, that's why Wolf is losing his cool in interviews and in particular for Binotto. Fuhrer sees Binotto as a threat, the politics is the foundation for all success, technically theres not a world of difference.

[paolo lalli]

Binotto the silent assain

[Brembo]

Forget politics and media talk. Lewis brought his ride home on 3 wheels. If not that's 25 pts. he would have lost for WDC, WCC. It was him ; not the car alone that got the win. Max is keeping Merc and Lewis with some competition for sure. Come 2023 Ferrari will also be in the mix according to Binotto! The win, podiums , pole still have me enjoying F-1 races big time. And I always believe Charles has a shot .

[tifosi1993]

Mcdonalds McLaren back out of appealling Racing point penalties.I smell a wolf.

Mclaren is a small fish pretending to be a great white shark. It's the same with Ferrari-FIA engine deal, Mclaren made lots of noises back then, and that's the only thing it can do.

Ferrari and Renault are appealing, and that's what matters.

[nani_s23]

'@F1 has clarified the Concorde Agreement timeline. The early sign-on deadline is now August 18, moved back a few days afters some late legal tinkering, and the final deadline is August 31

FIA Mercs

[nani_s23]

'@F1 has clarified the Concorde Agreement timeline. The early sign-on deadline is now August 18, moved back a few days afters some late legal tinkering, and the final deadline is August 31

FIA Mercs

[ferrari1.8t]

'@F1 has clarified the Concorde Agreement timeline. The early sign-on deadline is now August 18, moved back a few days afters some late legal tinkering, and the final deadline is August 31

FIA Mercs

And some forum members still believe Mercs power with the FIA is just a conspiracy theory. Merc owns the sport.

[SilverSpeed]

Yup MAFIA, Mercedes Assist in FIA.

[Brembo]

And some forum members still believe Mercs power with the FIA is just a conspiracy theory. Merc owns the sport.

Max dosen't realize that! And Max inspires Charles! I hope for the best.

[nani_s23]

Max dosen't realize that! And Max inspires Charles! I hope for the best.

Max inspires Charles...... Actually what was the above statement & Wts your reply ... non-sync. Every post it will be either hate Vettel/ god Max/ max inspires Charles ....

Leclerc do have identity on his own. There’s no need for him to follow one’s foot steps. Leclerc era will come soon... just like schumi/Alonso taking the underperforming car to the victory.

Favouritism of max reaching peaks.....glad that you didn’t say he inspired RG & K-MAG.