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Thread: Vettel: "Something" is going on with my car

  1. #241
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    Okey, last effort.

    "His most specific criticism, however, is of Binotto's handling of the drivers."


    And he mentions 2 different things that he does not like, how Binotto handles drivers.

    You add something that is not there, it is your own thoughts, not his words.

  2. #242
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    Seb came to Ferrari as "Schumy Jr.!" He sure looked that good @ R Bull. $50 million was outrageous . I believe all the mid track experience was lost by Seb being on a Sunday drive most every R Bull race. He needed it when he came over to Ferrari. Charles on the other hand was learning and fighting on the track all through F-2 and when he got up to F-1 he continued. I only wish the best for Seb but I'm very happy it's Charles that Ferrari will be with as the driver to take the team back to greatness. Too bad Binotto wasn't going with Seb! Another good guy but in the wrong seat.

  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimiBot View Post
    Okey, last effort.

    "His most specific criticism, however, is of Binotto's handling of the drivers."


    And he mentions 2 different things that he does not like, how Binotto handles drivers.

    You add something that is not there, it is your own thoughts, not his words.


    "Ferrari should not have charged him with so much responsibility so soon," said Forghieri.




    Is he implying that Charles should not be team's #1 driver but they should have kept Vettel to ease pressure on Charles? Seems to be what he's saying. How do you remove responsibility from a driver. He said that, I didn't.

    But I respect your last effort.

  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimiBot View Post
    2. Enzo Ferrari, would probably not approve of the way Sebastian Vettel's looming departure was handled
    he would have handled Seb's farewell differently. He deserved a more respectful treatment.
    To be fair, if it was Enzo Ferrari in charge, he would've fired the hell out of Vettel right after 2018. He doesn't really have the history to be kind with underperformers.
    "I've always believed that you should never, ever give up and you should always keep fighting even when there's only a slightest chance." - Michael Schumacher

  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSC Fan View Post
    To be fair, if it was Enzo Ferrari in charge, he would've fired the hell out of Vettel right after 2018. He doesn't really have the history to be kind with underperformers.

  6. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimiBot View Post
    2 different things.
    1. Too young driver to has so much responsibility.
    2. Enzo Ferrari, would probably not approve of the way Sebastian Vettel's looming departure was handled
    he would have handled Seb's farewell differently. He deserved a more respectful treatment.

    Can you see it now.
    1. He's 23 years old, so not "too young". I'm 4 years older than him and but it doesn't make me a young dude either.
    We have concrete, real world results and data to prove that Charles is more than capable enough of leading Ferrari. Each race weekend he has been proving it. You're putting too much emphasis on Forghiri's words, his words aren't absolute and he ain't some deity either.

    2. No one knows how Enzo would've handled Vettel. Who knows, he could've very well kicked Vettel out after 2018. Unless Enzo told you otherwise from his grave.
    But one thing is sure with Enzo Ferrari, he wouldn't have tolerated Vettel's snide remarks regarding Ferrari and "his car".

    I think we should focus on the reality, especially the race results and events that's been unfolding in front of our eyes. No team ever lined up for Vettel to sign him. He only got the AM seat because of some outside influence (Bernie) and Lawrence Stroll. And it wouldn't have looked good from PR standpoint, if an active 4 time world champion failed to secure a seat for next year. I'm pretty sure Liberty media also played a part, they wanted to keep Vettel in F1 and unfortunately Perez had to get axed for it.

  7. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    1. He's 23 years old, so not "too young". I'm 4 years older than him and but it doesn't make me a young dude either.
    We have concrete, real world results and data to prove that Charles is more than capable enough of leading Ferrari. Each race weekend he has been proving it. You're putting too much emphasis on Forghiri's words, his words aren't absolute and he ain't some deity either.
    yep

    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    2. No one knows how Enzo would've handled Vettel. Who knows, he could've very well kicked Vettel out after 2018. Unless Enzo told you otherwise from his grave.
    But one thing is sure with Enzo Ferrari, he wouldn't have tolerated Vettel's snide remarks regarding Ferrari and "his car".
    This is true.

    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    I think we should focus on the reality, especially the race results and events that's been unfolding in front of our eyes. No team ever lined up for Vettel to sign him. He only got the AM seat because of some outside influence (Bernie) and Lawrence Stroll. And it wouldn't have looked good from PR standpoint, if an active 4 time world champion failed to secure a seat for next year. I'm pretty sure Liberty media also played a part, they wanted to keep Vettel in F1 and unfortunately Perez had to get axed for it.
    Yep

    Another prominent driver getting axed at Racing Point aka Force India. (Ocon) Lance Stroll needs to be a reserve driver(just to save face for Lance and for Lawrence).

    Lawrence just made a deal with Aston Martin and Diamler/Mercedes Benz. While I don't care for his son, Lawrence is relentless in his business dealings....a great white shark in business...whether in apparel accesories or in F1 and the automotive world.

    I've said this before, you don't become a Billionare by being nice.
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  8. #248
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    He did work with Enzo few decades, so I think he knew him.
    It was not a question should Seb stay or leave, it was question how he was fired.

    "But I am sure that he would have handled Seb's farewell differently. He deserved a more respectful treatment."

    I hope that is clear for all now.


    About that "too young", I am sure he is thinking about how brutal for example Italian media can be, if things are not going well, and how young kid could handle that pressure, but so far so good.

  9. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    1. He's 23 years old, so not "too young". I'm 4 years older than him and but it doesn't make me a young dude either.
    We have concrete, real world results and data to prove that Charles is more than capable enough of leading Ferrari. Each race weekend he has been proving it. You're putting too much emphasis on Forghiri's words, his words aren't absolute and he ain't some deity either.
    Few those in a row, and then losing confidence and media starts complains, then we know, but like I said, so far so good.



    You can read about Forghieri here, if you dont know what he has done.

    https://sfcriga.com/mauro-forghieri-...otal-engineers

  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimiBot View Post
    Few those in a row, and then losing confidence and media starts complains, then we know, but like I said, so far so good.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYNC7s3LgoU

    You can read about Forghieri here, if you dont know what he has done.

    https://sfcriga.com/mauro-forghieri-...otal-engineers


    Drivers make mistakes and are sometimes too ambitious. He's made far less mistakes than his older partner.

  11. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Bob View Post
    Drivers make mistakes and are sometimes too ambitious. He's made far less mistakes than his older partner.
    Yes, I am just saying what could happen, and when media starts its attacks,then we know how Charles can take that pressure, you know what I mean.
    Like I said earlier, ballerina pirouettes comes with that "lack of rear downforce", and Binotto did say last year, that they did take different approach to build car than what Vettel wanted. Once again. We`ll see next year, if Seb was really that bad, or was that just because Binotto did not give him the car like he wanted.

  12. #252
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    I forgave last year to Binotto, because he did blame Arrivabene, and it was his first year, and this year it is Binottos car, and we are in P6 in WCC, without Charles phenomenal driving skills, we would be even behind Red Bull B-Team in P7.

  13. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimiBot View Post
    Few those in a row, and then losing confidence and media starts complains, then we know, but like I said, so far so good.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYNC7s3LgoU

    You can read about Forghieri here, if you dont know what he has done.

    https://sfcriga.com/mauro-forghieri-...otal-engineers
    And? We also know what Gordon Murray or Newey or Rory Byrne had done in this sport. But it doesn't mean their opinions are absolute. And speaking of Newey, maybe should read what he had to say about designing a F1 car. You'd be surprised how complex it is.

    It's not as simple as saying "Ferrari didn't design a car with rear downforce, so that's why Vettel can't driver properly hence he's making mistakes".

  14. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimiBot View Post
    Few those in a row, and then losing confidence and media starts complains, then we know, but like I said, so far so good.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYNC7s3LgoU

    You can read about Forghieri here, if you dont know what he has done.

    https://sfcriga.com/mauro-forghieri-...otal-engineers
    Thanks for that KimiBot, I'm old enough to remember Forghieri's contribution to Ferrari back as far as the mid-60s, so this is a good reminder.

  15. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by wisepie View Post
    Thanks for that KimiBot, I'm old enough to remember Forghieri's contribution to Ferrari back as far as the mid-60s, so this is a good reminder.
    Cool, I think these Old School guys starts to come out, because they dont like what Binotto has done to Ferrari. First was Montezemolo and now Forghieri.

  16. #256
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    Basic fact everyone is dancing around is simple. Vettel is out. He's not wanted at Ferrari. Leclerc is in - for next 4 years plus this season. Why would Ferrari allow Vettel to beat Leclerc? It would undermine the confidence and fan perception of the driver going forward and needing to carry the team for next 4 years. Ferrari have pinned their flag to Leclerc until 2024 and he needs to be perceived as capable of carrying the brand and the team. If you're Ferrari, don't you make sure that happens? How would you ensure this happens?



    This is a sport of optimization of everything to get every tenth out of the car. It doesn't take much to throw off a driver. Loose things in the cockpit. Loose pedals driver needs to tighten himself. Objects like a tape measure left in the cockpit to rattle around during qualifying. Low bias rear brake disintegrating on only the sixth lap to undermine driver confidence in the equipment to push less. Aero. Parts. Software. It goes on and on and on.



    Then, experience, seniority, status. Why should a 4x champion rip his guts out in equipment that barely gets a sniff of the podium? Most likely mid pack most of the time. A rookie who's won nothing obviously will push because he's hungry to prove himself. Vettel has 4 championships, over 50 wins and poles - he's not hungry for the hors d'oeuvres Leclerc is happy to fill up on right now in his young years. Vettel wants the main course, and he knows right away if the equipment is capable of delivering it.



    Vettel has four championships, finished second to the mighty Mercedes domination twice. Charles has won two races for Ferrari, which last I checked is seven times fewer than Sebastian. He's shiny and new and everyone is hyping him up at Ferrari. Will he live up to the hype? Or will there be excuses and Ferrari politics like with Kimi, Alonso and Vettel before him? I guess we'll watch and find out.

  17. #257
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    Truer words could not be spoken! Hopefully Charles can reach what Seb has already done. Seb needed Ferrari to do a Merc car wise and maybe the R Bull success wuld have followed. He was just 3 away from 7.

  18. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimiBot View Post
    I forgave last year to Binotto, because he did blame Arrivabene, and it was his first year, and this year it is Binottos car, and we are in P6 in WCC, without Charles phenomenal driving skills, we would be even behind Red Bull B-Team in P7.


    Most of them here say itís only vettel. But what they are missing is Binotto as well.
    Few of them are saying If is there in the team harmony will be different & it will disturb Leclerc.
    But they are arenít questioning what binotto has done to the car last/current & next year.

    There is absolute talent in Leclerc, no questions about it. Binotto wasted 3 years of Leclerc talent, can i keep it like this ?

    Wonder, what will be the next excuse once vettel is out for binotto or few of the colleagues here.
    Last edited by nani_s23; 30th October 2020 at 11:36.

  19. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post


    Most of them here say it’s only vettel. But what they are missing is Binotto as well.
    Few of them are saying If is there in the team harmony will be different & it will disturb Leclerc.
    But they are aren’t questioning what binotto has done to the car last/current & next year.

    There is absolute talent in Leclerc, no questions about it. Binotto wasted 3 years of Leclerc talent, can i keep it like this ?

    Wonder, what will be the next excuse once vettel is out for binotto or few of the colleagues here.


    The sabotaging conspiracy theory doesn't hold. Last year Leclerc still beat Vettel and Vettel started out as the favoured driver. To me it looks like Ferrari is going in the right direction now under Binotto. With Charles they have a driver that can get everything out of a car and with Sainz, probably have less friction, more harmony. It's probably best for Vettel to go to RP. If he stayed and got beat again next year by Leclerc, then it would just ruin him Hopefully he gets excited at RP and finds his mojo again, if not, then he better hang it up quick.

  20. #260
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    "It's the car" can go both ways. It's 85% car 15% driver. He for sure had that #1 finger in the air when he had The Car. Charles is and was the better of the two but Seb for sure needed a car better suited for his driving ways. 4 WDCs is a big deal.

  21. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    "It's the car" can go both ways. It's 85% car 15% driver. He for sure had that #1 finger in the air when he had The Car. Charles is and was the better of the two but Seb for sure needed a car better suited for his driving ways. 4 WDCs is a big deal.
    Also he's a big player when he wants to be. Just look at his valiant effort of keeping Tracing Point ahead of Ferrari in the WCC table.

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    Such kind of guys in this forum crying never ends

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    Anyone crying over Seb's pit stop last race is legit. I was hoping for Ferrari's pit to move up to R Bull,saving as much as 1 sec. for the drivers. Nothing to do with down force or spinning out , Seb has had some real bad luck . I was thinking podium or 4th. place last race. He was probably thinking the same!

  24. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    Anyone crying over Seb's pit stop last race is legit. I was hoping for Ferrari's pit to move up to R Bull,saving as much as 1 sec. for the drivers. Nothing to do with down force or spinning out , Seb has had some real bad luck . I was thinking podium or 4th. place last race. He was probably thinking the same!
    4th is probably too optimistic. 6th was realistic.

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    General observation. Teams should put more emphasis on hiring drivers with similar car requirements, so that the development path suits both drivers and hence gains more points for the team. I generally find the idea of developing the car according one driver's style particularly absurd, because you have two drivers in the team, they are both in the team and they are both hired to do a job. So it doesn't make sense to spend so much money on a driver only to impede him with an unsuitable cars. Teams must put in the effort to hire similar style drivers. What do you guys think about this?
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    Very well said. I just think finding team mates with similar requirements would be hard find. Tire management is a big deal also. In most cases team mates have different needs as to when and which tires to start; switch etc. 3 practices I believe is really important so as to be sure the car is suitable for each driver. They go out Sun. as equals car wise.Why is R bulls pit crew so efficient and Ferrari is not. A second saved with fast pit is a big deal to send both drivers out.

  27. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    Very well said. I just think finding team mates with similar requirements would be hard find. Tire management is a big deal also. In most cases team mates have different needs as to when and which tires to start; switch etc. 3 practices I believe is really important so as to be sure the car is suitable for each driver. They go out Sun. as equals car wise.Why is R bulls pit crew so efficient and Ferrari is not. A second saved with fast pit is a big deal to send both drivers out.
    That's a good point about a car that suits both drivers but easier said than done, look at Charles and Seb and also Max and Albon, the Red Bull is apparently designed around Max so it's harder for Alex to get the best out of it. As for pit crew, it's been below par for some time, as has strategy when compared to Merc and RB, we have to get the trackside issues into some sort of harmony and I do not believe that Binotto doing two jobs is helping those aspects.

  28. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by ntukza View Post
    General observation. Teams should put more emphasis on hiring drivers with similar car requirements, so that the development path suits both drivers and hence gains more points for the team. I generally find the idea of developing the car according one driver's style particularly absurd, because you have two drivers in the team, they are both in the team and they are both hired to do a job. So it doesn't make sense to spend so much money on a driver only to impede him with an unsuitable cars. Teams must put in the effort to hire similar style drivers. What do you guys think about this?
    It is absurd. Teams don't upend their entire design process and aero philosophy just to give Max a pointy front end, as Albon's defenders are saying, or give Vettel a car with planted rear end, as Vettel defenders are saying. As if a 4xWDC shouldn't be expected to perform better than he's doing right now because he can't handle "pointy read end" and should be given perpetual passes for lack of results because of his accolades.

    If Vettel/Albon is slower than Charles/Max, it's because Charles/Max is simply faster. Another funny argument or excuse is, driving style. Both Charles and Max had to adapt and cope with the demands of their machinery. They are making the car do all the hard work, instead of fighting with the steering wheel.

    And if Vettel/Albon's "driving style" makes them break 0.1 sec early or going trough the corners 10 kph slower than their teammates, and its not the "driving style", it's called lack of adaptability.

  29. #269
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    If a driver is faster than the other then that driver must be faster with all driving styles not with only a particular driving style. Leclerc is only faster as long as the car has a better front end, the moment that changes Vettel becomes faster as can be seen till Hungarian GP. Someone pointed out, Ferrari changed the dynamics of car after Hungary, starting British GP, made it more a front end car. From being faster, Vettel was suddenly around a second slower.

    Often it is said in Formula 1, the tyres need to be in the correct window for them to perform the best. Why? Because if tyres are not in window, the laptimes won't be good. Everything on car including driver works in same way. To extract the most, everything including the driver must be in their window.

    Hamilton is winning the titles because the car suits him. Maybe people don't remember that in 2013, Rosberg had scored more poles than Hamilton. Before that Button also beat him. That doesn't make him slower than Button or Rosberg.

    In Formula 1, every tenth matters. And that is only possible is everything on car including driver is in their perfect window.

  30. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by chinmay View Post
    If a driver is faster than the other then that driver must be faster with all driving styles not with only a particular driving style. Leclerc is only faster as long as the car has a better front end, the moment that changes Vettel becomes faster as can be seen till Hungarian GP. Someone pointed out, Ferrari changed the dynamics of car after Hungary, starting British GP, made it more a front end car. From being faster, Vettel was suddenly around a second slower.

    Often it is said in Formula 1, the tyres need to be in the correct window for them to perform the best. Why? Because if tyres are not in window, the laptimes won't be good. Everything on car including driver works in same way. To extract the most, everything including the driver must be in their window.

    Hamilton is winning the titles because the car suits him. Maybe people don't remember that in 2013, Rosberg had scored more poles than Hamilton. Before that Button also beat him. That doesn't make him slower than Button or Rosberg.

    In Formula 1, every tenth matters. And that is only possible is everything on car including driver is in their perfect window.
    Every tenth matters for sure. The car & driver as you say in the perfect window. Seb winds up with 13 sec. pit stop !! and winds up in P14 and finishes 12th! Somethings going on with my pit stops! I believe Luck is right up there with a driver's perfect window needs.

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