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Thread: Belgian GP 2020 Practices and Qualifying

  1. #241
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    Leclerc: Very difficult week-end for us until now. I gave everything and will continue to do so.
    Race is tomorrow and the forecast looks quite unpredictable which could make the race interesting

  2. #242
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    Toto Wolff: "Ferrari is an iconic brand that should be at the front. This is not good for F1. I feel with all the Tifosi and all Ferrari employees for this lack of performance. No fan and none of the Ferrari people deserve such a result.I have the impression that the [current] performance comes from how priorities have been set in the recent past."

  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    Toto Wolff: "Ferrari is an iconic brand that should be at the front. This is not good for F1. I feel with all the Tifosi and all Ferrari employees for this lack of performance. No fan and none of the Ferrari people deserve such a result.I have the impression that the [current] performance comes from how priorities have been set in the recent past."
    A dig at Binotto for forcing Arrivabene out of the team?


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  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schumiklub View Post
    A dig at Binotto for forcing Arrivabene out of the team?


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    1. Binotto and Ferrari veto'ed Toto from getting Chasey Carey's position
    2. RP situation.

  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schumiklub View Post
    A dig at Binotto for forcing Arrivabene out of the team?


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    Well Binotto and all the management of Ferrari messed it up. They listened to the wrong person. Arrivabene together with Marchionne raised Ferrari from the bottom back on top and even after Marchionne died Arrivabene continued the great management work. Maybe Binotto wanted to push forward this engine loophole forward and Maurizio didn't see it that way, I don't know, but right after he was made a team principal everything went south. The aero was put on the second rail with the power unit being the main and only weapon of the car. They knew, that they are playing with fire and even though FIA went for them since the start of the 2019 season, they didn't have any plan B prepared coming into 2020... This is just a total incompetence on Binotto's part.

    I wonder, if we went the way of aero first, that Maurizio wanted, where would Ferrari be now. The more I think about it, with the constant improvement they were making... we would win the 2019 championship and this year we could have been watching Toto ripping his hair out.

    "If he can't do it with Ferrari, well, he can't do it." - John Surtees

  6. #246
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    Not really interested in what that Nazi Zealot thinks about Ferrari. Condescending smug individual.

  7. #247
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    People really have short memories. I remember the constant moaning and crying from the usual suspects here during our struggle in 2016. Some here were calling for Allison and Arrivabene's head.

    But things changed in 2017 and those usual suspects calmed down. And now again the same old story, constant moaning and crying, and now the pitchforks are out against Binotto.

    Thing is, Arrivabane the tobacco guy was nothing but Sergio Marchionne's puppet. It was Marchionne who really ran the team. It was Marchionne who promoted Binotto to the TP position and promoted Leclerc from Alfa, because back then, he wasn't entirely happy with Vettel's performance and his gap to Raikkonen in 2018 wasn't big. So Marchionne wanted to test Vettel against a proper challenge...but unfortunately he perished.

    Again, calm down and apply some common sense. Wolff ain't Ferrari's friend, he's trying to **** stirring, and that's his job. Letting Binotto go won't solve anything, it will only make Ferrari weak. Ferrari have been honest about our current predicaments and our engine struggles since day 1, because of the pandemic situation in Italy, they had to shut down the factory for months. It's a simple fact, moaning and crying like little kids not gonna change that fact.

  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tifoso Svedese View Post
    The Mercedes/FIA collusion to ban our engine while allowing their identical one to remain. If we had kept ours and theirs had been banned instead, we'd been on pole today and I'm not even joking. With the 2019 engine in our car, Leclerc would've been on the front row today even if they have theirs. That's what having the governing body in an iron grip does for you.
    I agree with you that we would be far ahead with last year's engine. But we must remember that Ferrari agreed to the settlement, so it's disingenuous to blame a Mercedes/FIA collusion for a situation that technically Ferrari got themselves into. I'm actually starting to think that all this recession is a curse for not being upfront about what happened. I wish Ferrari would come clean, take responsibility and then turn a new leaf.

    Also, i find it really hard to accept that a team like Ferrari would simply live with an underperforming engine for two consecutive seasons and just wait for 2022. Surely something can be done. I partly agree with your suggestion. I don't think Ferrari should protest on grounds of collusion but rather on grounds of not being able to resolve their engine problem.
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  9. #249
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    Kyss4k, yeah, also Binotto did everything wrong with Seb, I really dont know why. He could wait end of the year to Say Seb, we dont need you anymore, now Seb has no motivation, of course that does not really matter now, because car is so bad, but anyways.
    Binotto is a disaster, and Elkann can not see that, then he is not a great leader.

  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp View Post
    1. Binotto and Ferrari veto'ed Toto from getting Chasey Carey's position
    2. RP situation.
    Yup, Wolff is bitter about it.

    But I never knew this forum had secret admirers of Toto...maybe they should follow his team rather than Ferrari. I'm sure Merc would love to have some bandwagon hoppers.

  11. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    People really have short memories. I remember the constant moaning and crying from the usual suspects here during our struggle in 2016. Some here were calling for Allison and Arrivabene's head.

    But things changed in 2017 and those usual suspects calmed down. And now again the same old story, constant moaning and crying, and now the pitchforks are out against Binotto.

    Thing is, Arrivabane the tobacco guy was nothing but Sergio Marchionne's puppet. It was Marchionne who really ran the team. It was Marchionne who promoted Binotto to the TP position and promoted Leclerc from Alfa, because back then, he wasn't entirely happy with Vettel's performance and his gap to Raikkonen in 2018 wasn't big. So Marchionne wanted to test Vettel against a proper challenge...but unfortunately he perished.

    Again, calm down and apply some common sense. Wolff ain't Ferrari's friend, he's trying to **** stirring, and that's his job. Letting Binotto go won't solve anything, it will only make Ferrari weak. Ferrari have been honest about our current predicaments and our engine struggles since day 1, because of the pandemic situation in Italy, they had to shut down the factory for months. It's a simple fact, moaning and crying like little kids not gonna change that fact.
    Do you see this team under Binotto's leadership turning this situation around?
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  12. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimiBot View Post
    Kyss4k, yeah, also Binotto did everything wrong with Seb, I really dont know why. He could wait end of the year to Say Seb, we dont need you anymore, now Seb has no motivation, of course that does not really matter now, because car is so bad, but anyways.
    Binotto is a disaster, and Elkann can not see that, then he is not a great leader.
    Ferrari did nothing wrong with "Seb". The team has nothing but nice to him since he joined, they never criticized his erratic driving or him costing Ferrari valuable points by crashing or spinning.

    And Ferrari never signed any blood--pact with Vettel, and what's more, Ferrari has every right not to renew his contract. They gave him the dignity to say he left on his own. But first, Vettel leaked everything to the media and then started this as a stick to beat the team with.

  13. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by ntukza View Post
    Do you see this team under Binotto's leadership turning this situation around?
    I'm not a fortune teller. But I'd always trust an engineer over a tobacco seller.

  14. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    I'm not a fortune teller. But I'd always trust an engineer over a tobacco seller.
    In this case results speaks for tobacco seller.
    I hope you remember this: As long as Binotto works for Ferrari, we are not going to win anything.

  15. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimiBot View Post
    Kyss4k, yeah, also Binotto did everything wrong with Seb, I really dont know why. He could wait end of the year to Say Seb, we dont need you anymore, now Seb has no motivation, of course that does not really matter now, because car is so bad, but anyways.
    Binotto is a disaster, and Elkann can not see that, then he is not a great leader.
    Yup agree, the way he handled vettel is wrong. But I did see that coming because of vettel’s mistake as well.
    My question is how will Binotto handle the situation with Leclerc now, of course he has the complete backing but what about the car? as I don’t see till 2022 we don’t stand any chance. then do we have any chance in 2022 then? Again the cycle repeats, will go for another star driver & bring him in still no result ??

    Vettel done mistakes & they didn’t renew his contract, well & good..!! Now binotto got chance In 2019/2020/2021, what we achieved & achieving ?? Why don’t ferrari go for new hires out of Italy? No because Elkan has complete faith in binotto which we don’t have.

    Don’t know how far this goes. But one thing my only hope is 2022, if ferrari doesn’t deliver a good car to Leclerc then it’s better for him to look for other opportunities.
    Last edited by nani_s23; 29th August 2020 at 21:15.

  16. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimiBot View Post
    In this case results speaks for tobacco seller.
    I hope you remember this: As long as Binotto works for Ferrari, we are not going to win anything.
    Totally agree with you .

    We are removing one driver based on his mistakes. Then why don’t binotto step down accepting his failure, simple logic.
    Binotto is good at his role which is TD not as a TP.
    Last edited by nani_s23; 29th August 2020 at 21:14.

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  18. #258
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    Wolf points the finger Strait at binotto.The ferrari sf 1000 is a failure if he was at mercedes and the same was happening there he would have been shown the door long ago.Ferrari needs to stop using the model of jobs for the boys.I do not rate binotto as an engineer .He looks like a technical person talks technical walks technical be he is not technical.Looks can be deceiving .Binotto has been part of the failing ferrari system for to long.Show him the door because under his leadership pain will only endure he simply does not cut the mustard ; and is destroying Charles racing career along the way.Sorry mate ariverdechi.

  19. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    I'm not a fortune teller. But I'd always trust an engineer over a tobacco seller.
    Here’s the thing; it depends on what the position at the team you are looking to fill. Binotto may very well be a brilliant engineer but in his current role, he needs to be a brilliant manager which he does not appear to be. I’m an Architect, at some point in my career I stoped doing much design and began managing. Design required a different set of skills from management and I had to completely change the way I think in order to succeed.

    Mattia could very well be an awesome Engineer, but as a manager the tobacco salesmen would eat his lunch.

  20. #260
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    Who is building these Ferrari cars. And where is the s..t CEO. Is he happy about the current situation. What’s boiling my blood is the fact that arrogant, stuck up, charmless, piece of you know what, Hamster is going to equal Michael’s record But the truth be said Ferrari and there Luca who let Michael go far too early to give the disappointing Raik Michael’s place was an act of major betrayal. Michael had several more years of maximum competitive abilities and they still let him go. Ferrari deserve what has happened to them since then.

  21. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by ntukza View Post
    I agree with you that we would be far ahead with last year's engine. But we must remember that Ferrari agreed to the settlement, so it's disingenuous to blame a Mercedes/FIA collusion for a situation that technically Ferrari got themselves into. I'm actually starting to think that all this recession is a curse for not being upfront about what happened. I wish Ferrari would come clean, take responsibility and then turn a new leaf.

    Also, i find it really hard to accept that a team like Ferrari would simply live with an underperforming engine for two consecutive seasons and just wait for 2022. Surely something can be done. I partly agree with your suggestion. I don't think Ferrari should protest on grounds of collusion but rather on grounds of not being able to resolve their engine problem.
    Mate, I think you come at it from your honest viewpoint, which I happen to find very naīve. The FIA basically put a gun to our heads using blackmail, probably industrial sabotage, while have deliberately overlooked Mercedes doing the same thing. That's the whole issue. The whole thing is, we should be exactly as entitled to use the 2019 engine without the 'loophole' as any other team would be using theirs. If anything, we should demand the right to having the 2019 engine back for next year without fuel burning.

  22. #262
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    Binotto has F-1 back to being F- Pirelli . His analogy of the current Ferrari car problems is mainly tire grip. There is none accelerating or braking. The drivers are not at fault. A safe race for both drivers; but.... go all out to get up front ! Ferrari can't just race to beat Williams !!

  23. #263
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    Give me the tobacco salesman at least with the tobacco man I know what iam getting into and what possible bad effects await.With an engineer you get to many variables and never a strait answer always tinkering and thinking out aload like a crazy person .When the correct thought process and answer has finally arrived its usually to late sound familiar thanks Binotto.

  24. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    Binotto has F-1 back to being F- Pirelli . His analogy of the current Ferrari car problems is mainly tire grip. There is none accelerating or braking. The drivers are not at fault. A safe race for both drivers; but.... go all out to get up front ! Ferrari can't just race to beat Williams !!
    Williams have said that their target is beat Ferrari on Sunday. They said Ferrari's long run pace was more or less same as theirs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chinmay View Post
    Williams have said that their target is beat Ferrari on Sunday. They said Ferrari's long run pace was more or less same as theirs.
    Wow! That's true; I never thought of it that way. Charles flying into the top 6 will calm me down , Seb in the 10 !!!

  26. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    Ferrari did nothing wrong with "Seb". The team has nothing but nice to him since he joined, they never criticized his erratic driving or him costing Ferrari valuable points by crashing or spinning.

    And Ferrari never signed any blood--pact with Vettel, and what's more, Ferrari has every right not to renew his contract. They gave him the dignity to say he left on his own. But first, Vettel leaked everything to the media and then started this as a stick to beat the team with.
    Oh my god... He messed it up with Vettel! Seb was awesome since 2015 until Germany 2018, that's a long time. He was destroying his teammate (so you can say that Kimi was an absolute garbage, but you surely will not). Then something broke in Vettel. He started to make mistakes, but I am 100% sure he didn't want to make them. He had a bad 2019 and what will Binnoto do? Before the season starts he won't even tell him anything about cutting costs, no discussion with him, nothing, just "Hi Seb, you're out, Bye." This is not how you deal with problems. But now we know, Binnoto doesn't know how to deal with problems.

    "If he can't do it with Ferrari, well, he can't do it." - John Surtees

  27. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by chinmay View Post
    Williams have said that their target is beat Ferrari on Sunday. They said Ferrari's long run pace was more or less same as theirs.
    I can't see the Williams duo beating Charles, not unless he makes a mistake or has a car problem.

  28. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Singer View Post
    Painful, embarrassing but I'm still a Ferrari fan. Can only get better - surely?
    Why do you think? Look at the Williams now! Once mighty team, now regular out in Q1. So, yes it can worse than this!

  29. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by stefa View Post
    Look at the Williams now! Once mighty team, now regular out in Q1. So, yes it can worse than this!

    And under new management/leadership.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  30. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimiBot View Post
    In this case results speaks for tobacco seller.
    I hope you remember this: As long as Binotto works for Ferrari, we are not going to win anything.
    Sure, lets talk about results. 2015-3 wins, 2016-0 wins, and then at the middle of 2016 SM made Binotto the TD. And starting from 2017, Ferrari became competitive again. Had nothing to do with Arrivabene.

    And let's also talk about some facts. Fact, it was SM who ran Ferrari, he made all the decisions not Arrivabene. Also according to some new reports, Marchionne ultimately wanted Binotto to be the TP. Marchionne also wanted Leclerc to replace Raikkonen. What exactly Arrivabene, never really mattered, since he was only there because of Philip Morris.

    And at the end of the day, Ferrari still hasn't won anything under Arrivabene with better cars.

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