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Thread: Italian GP 2020 : Practice and Qualifying

  1. #301
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    Proof of Shumy the best is clearly shown with his records. How does Lewis rate last of the best when soon he will have broken all F-1 , Shumy, and everyone else's records? The 2020
    F-1 rules alone and FIA in general make the past look easy. I remember when the most poles was a big record to reach. WDC, and most wins was also a big deal back then. A driver coming from 26 seconds behind the last place driver to finish 7th took more than just a car to accomplish. F-1 fans young and old , now have a GOAT they can say they watched come up.
    I just wish he was doing all of it in a Ferrari.

  2. #302
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    It isn't statistics that I'm talking about. I'm talking about the skills.

    Michael carried championship battles to the last race in inferior cars like in 1997 and 1998 (that is something even Adrian Newey admits in his book) and won championships in inferior cars in 1995, 2000 and 2003. Likewise, Prost carried incredibly unreliable and plain inferior cars to title contention in 1981-1983 and in 1990, he even won against the dominant Williams in 1986.

    Now, Hamilton is a great driver but he hasn't quite achieved what Schumacher and Prost have. He was pretty anonymous in 2010-2013 when compared to Alonso and Vettel. He hasn't carried clear inferior cars to championship contention (in 2010, McLaren and Ferrari were equal and RBR was equalised despite being faster due to reliability issues). All his championships are in dominant cars except for 2008 which was a slightly modified version of the F2007 and was aided by immense bad luck to Massa. So while I accept that he is someone all F1 fans need to look up to, he isn't quite the GOAT in any other thing except statistics.
    "I've always believed that you should never, ever give up and you should always keep fighting even when there's only a slightest chance." - Michael Schumacher

  3. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSC Fan View Post
    It isn't statistics that I'm talking about. I'm talking about the skills.

    Michael carried championship battles to the last race in inferior cars like in 1997 and 1998 (that is something even Adrian Newey admits in his book) and won championships in inferior cars in 1995, 2000 and 2003. Likewise, Prost carried incredibly unreliable and plain inferior cars to title contention in 1981-1983 and in 1990, he even won against the dominant Williams in 1986.

    Now, Hamilton is a great driver but he hasn't quite achieved what Schumacher and Prost have. He was pretty anonymous in 2010-2013 when compared to Alonso and Vettel. He hasn't carried clear inferior cars to championship contention (in 2010, McLaren and Ferrari were equal and RBR was equalised despite being faster due to reliability issues). All his championships are in dominant cars except for 2008 which was a slightly modified version of the F2007 and was aided by immense bad luck to Massa. So while I accept that he is someone all F1 fans need to look up to, he isn't quite the GOAT in any other thing except statistics.
    well said.

  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    I surely agree , Lewis is in a class of his own. No competition ! 26 sec. behind the last car and he finished 7th with a fastest lap also! Was it Auto pilot that got him safely through the crowded track? Anyway he didn't get his 90 yet.
    Yes, if he had the modes he no longer had he would slice thru the other cars as you well know. But now that was no longer the case was it?
    Damn... :(
    "If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve

  5. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSC Fan View Post
    It isn't statistics that I'm talking about. I'm talking about the skills.

    Michael carried championship battles to the last race in inferior cars like in 1997 and 1998 (that is something even Adrian Newey admits in his book) and won championships in inferior cars in 1995, 2000 and 2003. Likewise, Prost carried incredibly unreliable and plain inferior cars to title contention in 1981-1983 and in 1990, he even won against the dominant Williams in 1986.

    Now, Hamilton is a great driver but he hasn't quite achieved what Schumacher and Prost have. He was pretty anonymous in 2010-2013 when compared to Alonso and Vettel. He hasn't carried clear inferior cars to championship contention (in 2010, McLaren and Ferrari were equal and RBR was equalised despite being faster due to reliability issues). All his championships are in dominant cars except for 2008 which was a slightly modified version of the F2007 and was aided by immense bad luck to Massa. So while I accept that he is someone all F1 fans need to look up to, he isn't quite the GOAT in any other thing except statistics.
    For all his (undisputed) driving skills, Lewis always chose the easy way to go to a team with a very good car.
    That is what differentiates him in comparison with Michael. When he went to Ferrari, Ferrari was a mess, yet he got 3 P1 and we know how he helped build a winning team.

    I am an optimist; Brembo will get it.
    "If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve

  6. #306
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    This Italian GP going from 1st by a mile!!!! Lewis and his rocket got sent to the back 26 sec. behind. He got 7th place and kept strong points ahead of the competition that includes his team mate. Great driving, deserving of the car he has. With no Ferrari's to watch and hope for; at least the race had good action and a race without Merc on the podium! We Ferrari fans are now just hoping the cars can finish a race in one piece and maybe in the top 10. I too am optimistic the races will be great to watch; even with Claire gone.

  7. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    I surely agree , Lewis is in a class of his own. No competition ! 26 sec. behind the last car and he finished 7th with a fastest lap also! Was it Auto pilot that got him safely through the crowded track? Anyway he didn't get his 90 yet.
    Are you serious?!?! He was not driving it on Monaco streets! It was Monza. Just straights and couple of corners. Very wide track, and a car which is not a class, but 10 classes above every other car!!!!

  8. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSC Fan View Post
    It isn't statistics that I'm talking about. I'm talking about the skills.

    Michael carried championship battles to the last race in inferior cars like in 1997 and 1998 (that is something even Adrian Newey admits in his book) and won championships in inferior cars in 1995, 2000 and 2003. Likewise, Prost carried incredibly unreliable and plain inferior cars to title contention in 1981-1983 and in 1990, he even won against the dominant Williams in 1986.

    Now, Hamilton is a great driver but he hasn't quite achieved what Schumacher and Prost have. He was pretty anonymous in 2010-2013 when compared to Alonso and Vettel. He hasn't carried clear inferior cars to championship contention (in 2010, McLaren and Ferrari were equal and RBR was equalised despite being faster due to reliability issues). All his championships are in dominant cars except for 2008 which was a slightly modified version of the F2007 and was aided by immense bad luck to Massa. So while I accept that he is someone all F1 fans need to look up to, he isn't quite the GOAT in any other thing except statistics.
    Michael's Michael but let's not say the F1-2000 and the 2003-GA were inferior cars. That they had competition is the better way of putting it. They weren't the F2004, but they weren't exactly midfield material either.

  9. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by killer View Post
    Michael's Michael but let's not say the F1-2000 and the 2003-GA were inferior cars. That they had competition is the better way of putting it. They weren't the F2004, but they weren't exactly midfield material either.
    To be fair, no matter how good driver is, he cannot fight with inferior car with bad driver in superior car!

  10. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by killer View Post
    Michael's Michael but let's not say the F1-2000 and the 2003-GA were inferior cars. That they had competition is the better way of putting it. They weren't the F2004, but they weren't exactly midfield material either.
    Excuse me if I exaggerated it. What I mean is, the McLaren was better in 2000 and the Williams was better in 2003 (they only lacked a good driver, Mark Webber, while testing for them was half a second faster than Montoya and Ralf).

    Not to mention that the FIA deliberately tried to stop us in 2003 by introducing a new point system which didn't credit the race winners enough. By inferior cars, what I mean is not the best car. That is something Hamilton hasn't done and the FIA doesn't care too much about Merc dominance for some reason.
    "I've always believed that you should never, ever give up and you should always keep fighting even when there's only a slightest chance." - Michael Schumacher

  11. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by stefa View Post
    Are you serious?!?! He was not driving it on Monaco streets! It was Monza. Just straights and couple of corners. Very wide track, and a car which is not a class, but 10 classes above every other car!!!!
    It seems Lewis was 13 classes above the other drivers coming in 7th. along with his 10 classes ahead car. I never herd anyone describe Monza as just straights and a couple of corners. If that's the case what happened to all the drivers who crashed and esp. our Ferraris? Tell that to Saintz and Stroll. Be it the wide track or the class 10 car Lewis managed to still come out with points enough to hold that so far #1 spot. Throw in a fastest lap point too. But... no 90 !

  12. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    It seems Lewis was 13 classes above the other drivers coming in 7th. along with his 10 classes ahead car. I never herd anyone describe Monza as just straights and a couple of corners. If that's the case what happened to all the drivers who crashed and esp. our Ferraris? Tell that to Saintz and Stroll. Be it the wide track or the class 10 car Lewis managed to still come out with points enough to hold that so far #1 spot. Throw in a fastest lap point too. But... no 90 !
    Brembo, will you please shut up about Hamilton and his taking of all of Michael's records, they are not comparable and we don't need to be reminded that it is about to happen, Sky will be rubbing our noses in it forever more as it is!

  13. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    It seems Lewis was 13 classes above the other drivers coming in 7th. along with his 10 classes ahead car. I never herd anyone describe Monza as just straights and a couple of corners. If that's the case what happened to all the drivers who crashed and esp. our Ferraris? Tell that to Saintz and Stroll. Be it the wide track or the class 10 car Lewis managed to still come out with points enough to hold that so far #1 spot. Throw in a fastest lap point too. But... no 90 !
    Our Ferrari crashed because CL made a mistake and because car is pure undrivable garbage! Who else crashed?

  14. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by wisepie View Post
    Brembo, will you please shut up about Hamilton and his taking of all of Michael's records, they are not comparable and we don't need to be reminded that it is about to happen, Sky will be rubbing our noses in it forever more as it is!
    AGREE 100%. LH troll!!!!

  15. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by stefa View Post
    AGREE 100%. LH troll!!!!
    Seconded. I gave him the benefit of doubt, but it's posts like that which help to convince me he's trolling.

  16. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by 458 Italia View Post
    Seconded. I gave him the benefit of doubt, but it's posts like that which help to convince me he's trolling.
    First it was obsesion with MV, and not is LH

  17. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSC Fan View Post
    Excuse me if I exaggerated it. What I mean is, the McLaren was better in 2000 and the Williams was better in 2003 (they only lacked a good driver, Mark Webber, while testing for them was half a second faster than Montoya and Ralf).

    Not to mention that the FIA deliberately tried to stop us in 2003 by introducing a new point system which didn't credit the race winners enough. By inferior cars, what I mean is not the best car. That is something Hamilton hasn't done and the FIA doesn't care too much about Merc dominance for some reason.
    Understood.

  18. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by stefa View Post
    First it was obsesion with MV, and not is LH
    You left out my first driver obsession as my favorite driver , Rubens Barichello! Hatred was not a strong enough word here for me and Rubens here on the FERRARI forum.I stuck it out anyway. Meanwhile Michael's biggest fan ever is and will always be Toto Wolf who over and over praises Michael's going home to Merc and all his input brought forward to the team is what made Merc and lucky drivers untouchable so far. Are Michael fans here now trolling? Charles is the driver I most want to see successful now and in the future. My going over his last race results here would be far worse than acknowledging who came in 7th from the back. Even if OK it was the car, the easy track , not the driver! Albon wrecked his floor ,Seb hit the polystyrene barrier, red flag. Not the toughest but not the easiest track.
    Last edited by Brembo; 10th September 2020 at 09:59.

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