Tuscan GP 2020 Race Thread

[WS6TransAm01]

You are the one failing miserably to place all the blame on one person. Do you actually think he makes every decision that affects the F1 team and it was him alone that agreed to the engine freeze?

He is the TP, the buck stops with him. That's what a leader means, means the ultimate decision lies with him. If the ultimate success of failure of the team was not the responsibility of the TP, why even have one at all? They they just a hood ornament?

[ferrari1.8t]

He is the TP, the buck stops with him. That's what a leader means, means the ultimate decision lies with him. If the ultimate success of failure of the team was not the responsibility of the TP, why even have one at all? They they just a hood ornament?

Sorry, I don't agree with this. An organization as big as Ferrari and you think all decisions are made by 1 man and 1 man only? LOL

[WS6TransAm01]

Sorry, I don't agree with this. An organization as big as Ferrari and you think all decisions are made by 1 man and 1 man only? LOL

Oye, no. There are countless number of lower level mangers who make lower level decisions. The major ones, like agreeing to an engine freeze, for instance, are usually not something that the head of the janitorial department is consulted on. If making those types of decisions are not his responsibility, then what the hell is his responsibility? To sit there and look emo? His job is to ensure the success of the team, if the team is not successful, he didn't do his job.

There is a chain of command, when it comes to the F1 team, he is at the top of that chain. Think of any organization which has a hierarchical structure, ultimately, the responsibility of every lower level decision rests with the person at the top.

[Greig]

He is the TP, the buck stops with him. That's what a leader means, means the ultimate decision lies with him. If the ultimate success of failure of the team was not the responsibility of the TP, why even have one at all? They they just a hood ornament?

I very much doubt he is the one making every decision, there is a board of directors and a President not just Mario running the whole thing.

You would probably have wanted Todt sacked before he won anything also I suppose as your view is so short sighted.

[ntukza]

I very much doubt he is the one making every decision, there is a board of directors and a President not just Mario running the whole thing.

You would probably have wanted Todt sacked before he won anything also I suppose as your view is so short sighted.

Greig what is your impression of Binotto? Do you think he has the ability to do a Todt?

[WS6TransAm01]

I very much doubt he is the one making every decision, there is a board of directors and a President not just Mario running the whole thing.

You would probably have wanted Todt sacked before he won anything also I suppose as your view is so short sighted.

Right, because the decision of which design path to follow for the front wing falls to John Elkann. Really dude? He hired Binotto to run Scuderia Ferrari, I very much don't doubt that most if not all of the major decisions taken by the race team are if not completely made by, then greatly influenced by Mattia. "John, ciao, what tires compounds should we run in Russia?" Do you really think that's how it happens?

Would there have been a discussion regarding signing the engine freeze between them? I am 100% sure there was. Would Elkann defer to Mattia since he the latter would be infinitely more educated on the topic of formula 1 engines and their development than the former? You bet you ass he would. If Mattia told Elkann; "Yo, Johnny cakes, if we sign this we are gonna be sucking Williams' exhaust for two years" Elkann would have said "oh yeah, sign that puppy!, who cares about the company image"

I mean honestly, I don't know what you do for a living but have you ever been involved in high level decision making which could cost millions of dollars? You think the CEO is going to dismiss his SME and just say, yeah dude, cut off the companies feet and pull down it's pants. It'll be fun! Hell no. The CEO will turn to the SME and be like "dude, I pay you the big bucks, what are we doing... and you better not F me in the A on this!" That's how it happens. Do you really think the first question out of everyone's mouth wouldn't have been "can the FIA prove it in court?"

So either Mattia made that decision, or he advised the board to make that decision. Either way, the failure of the team is on him.

Going back to Todt, he joined Ferrari in 94, right? In 93 they finished 4th. In 1994 and 95 they were 3rd. Already an improvement under his watch. In 1996, 1997 and 1998 they were 2nd. In 99 to 2004 they were 1st. 2005 was a BS year with tires being outside of Todt's control, still 3rd. Back to 2nd in 2006. And back to 1st in 07. When Todt joined, it was a steady rise back to the top. Mattia took over a 2nd place team and in the span of one and a half seasons they are in 6th playing with back markers.

Todt shows a steady progression back to the top. Binotto shows a cliff dive to the bottom. It's silly to pretend like my criticism of one for his abysmal failure would be the same for the success of the other. Silly, and I expect nothing less of you. Had Ferrari stayed 2nd this year, I would not be riding him so hard because I understand the difficultly to fighting Merc + FIA. That isn't what happened tho, is it? He put up on fight, just folded like a cheap lawn chair and there the team sits, with 66 points compared to Mercs 325.

I understand your attitude in not blaming him, I get it, every one gets a participation trophy, right? He tried, so we shouldn't be hard on him, right? No, that reeks of failure. That is the attitude that breeds failure and failure is what you are defending. Good job!

[jgonzalesm6]

John Elkan is the chairman of Ferrari and Fiat-Chrysler-Automobiles, plus Exor, the Agnelli family holding company, where he is both chairman and CEO.

Exor owns only 27% of FCA and 23% of Ferrari, but has a higher share of the capitals in finance companies, banking, reinsurance, , and a huge media empire. Exor controls about 12 international newspapers (including the Financial Times), several magazines (The Economist), 3 radio stations, 4 TV channels, 1 web portal, plus an advertising agency.

Exor is also involved in industry, agricultural equipment, tractors, and trucks, owning a portfolio of international companies like Case, New Holland, IVECO, etc … Juventus soccer club is also part of Exor.

In 2019, Exor declared revenues of $144 billion in the Netherlands ; that easily dwarves anything FCA or Ferrari could bring. So I think Elkan concentrates mostly his activities in running Exor, the Agnelli family heirloom, more than FCA and Ferrari where he delegates power.

[Greig]

Wow you have really reached new depths with the first 2 paragraphs there, actually feel rather bad for you that you have resorted to kindergarten levels of debate to try and be right..yet still be wrong. Race team is very different to doing deals with FIA, signing new concorde agreements etc etc....I guess he also deals with all the sponsors, PR...he must have all the time in the world to not only oversee the racing team but all the corporate and business side of it as well....LOL

[nani_s23]

Not relevant... but 2016 car
https://youtu.be/6Q51-9NdAcw