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Thread: HONDA exit. Will FERRARI supply RBR?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    The FIA does all it can for Merc with hybd. tech. and so on. Meanwhile Lewis says the FIA is out to hold him back . That 10 sec penalty and trying to add 2 pts. more to his License penalties sure looks like he's right.
    Looks like the opposite to me, it was originally 4 penalty points but when they realised that would mean a ban they knocked them down to 2 and then later removed them all.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redfive View Post
    Strange as they just signed a multiyear contract with indycar.
    Saw that...along with Chevy. It's a cheaper formula when compared to F1.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redfive View Post
    Looks like the opposite to me, it was originally 4 penalty points but when they realised that would mean a ban they knocked them down to 2 and then later removed them all.
    No one in F-1 agreed with the penalty points 4 or 2. Max & Seb were very outspoken against the FIA decision thinking they could be nest I imagine. It's possible the FIA wants to tell Lewis in a round about way to chill out with the political actions and just stick with the sport or else! That may be what they want to hold him back from.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Saw that...along with Chevy. It's a cheaper formula when compared to F1.
    What does that have to do with them want to move away from a certain tech ?

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    "If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by aroutis View Post
    What does that have to do with them want to move away from a certain tech ?

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    The new engines for Indy are just boiled down and simpler versions of the engines we have now.
    "I've always believed that you should never, ever give up and you should always keep fighting even when there's only a slightest chance." - Michael Schumacher

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    No one in F-1 agreed with the penalty points 4 or 2. Max & Seb were very outspoken against the FIA decision thinking they could be nest I imagine. It's possible the FIA wants to tell Lewis in a round about way to chill out with the political actions and just stick with the sport or else! That may be what they want to hold him back from.
    I guess they are out to get him lol

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    "If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve

  7. #37
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    Honda is only quitting as they now have also realised that there is no way they can compete amd match Mercedes engines. They know now that Mercedes has so much more power in reserve and they simply cant catch them. Given the fact that these current engines are so expensive and also will continue to run until the end of 2025 season if I am not mistaken.
    Red is the only color!!!

  8. #38
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    I still don't think they are running their engines in full power. They have been toying with rest of the grid for years. It's killing F1. No other team has had so much dominance this far before and they will continue their dominance by the looks of it. I used to love this sport so much but now it has become so predictable, I have not watched a single race over a year an half and I dont think I will do for a while as there is no competition out there. Hamilton is only racing himself, not even his team mate there to challenge him.
    Red is the only color!!!

  9. #39
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    Even back then, early 2000's where Ferrari dominated the sport, there was a competition back then. Right now there is none of that at all. They better change the rules ASAP or there wont be an F1 unfortunately.
    Red is the only color!!!

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by hakanabi View Post
    I still don't think they are running their engines in full power. They have been toying with rest of the grid for years. It's killing F1. No other team has had so much dominance this far before and they will continue their dominance by the looks of it. I used to love this sport so much but now it has become so predictable, I have not watched a single race over a year an half and I dont think I will do for a while as there is no competition out there. Hamilton is only racing himself, not even his team mate there to challenge him.
    I’d have to disagree with you. Merc we’re running them at full power last year and had a absolutely NO answer to 2019 ferrari engine(mind you we were bending the rules and using more fuel),

    So ferrari was the only eng. manufacturer that actually beat them and Wolf was shitting his pants and panicked and that’s how we got caught.

    So deep down I think Merc has to do something along the lines of what we were doing or burning some oil still, more then what is allowed....at least that is my opinion on this

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by aroutis View Post
    I guess they are out to get him lol

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    $pts. on his license and 10 second back on the race is equal to a guilty with a hanging if it went trough! The FIA needs to stop and realize in 3yrs. and 6 more races this season Lewis' records to break will be in the 100s. The young drivers have something to work for! It's good for the fans . I'm sure we all agree records are made to be broken. Even F-E has Merc 2nd. &11th. in the standings. The FIA is in utter confusion as to what to do!
    Last edited by Brembo; 5th October 2020 at 09:04.

  12. #42
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    I wonder if Renault will pull out too if Alpine isn't a top team in 2022.
    "I've always believed that you should never, ever give up and you should always keep fighting even when there's only a slightest chance." - Michael Schumacher

  13. #43
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    I agree that F1 needs to make changes. F1 calls itself the pinnacle of motorsport, why it needs it's engines to mimic the real world, I have no idea. The rest of the car doesn't. Let's go back to very simple V8 engines, if they want hybrids, go back to KERS. It was simple, probably pretty cheap and very reliable. And they still sounded pretty good. The tech to make these engine and battery packs efficient can still translate to road cars, but I don't think that should be the reasoning behind the power units. This is a sport, so let's make it as exciting as possible. I would love to see 5-6 different engines back in F1.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    They want to pursue EV's.

    They want to move away from petrol engines and be carbon free.
    That's hysterical, because the mining and refining of metals for batteries is carbon free? Or is the production of electricity?

    Sounds like a dumb excuse. They were finally achieving some success. Oh well.

  15. #45
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    Honda open to facilitating Red Bull engine project post-2021

    Honda’s Formula 1 project leader is willing to discuss Red Bull keeping its engines after its 2021 F1 exit so the team can develop them itself or with a new partner.

    Honda will leave F1 at the end of 2021 to redirect its research and development resources towards major automotive targets it has set, but wants to support the succession plan Red Bull must come up with for an alternative engine supply for its two teams.

    A return to Renault has been mooted as the simplest outcome given the lack of alternative manufacturers and FIA rules that would force Red Bull’s former engine partner to agree a deal if necessary.


    However, the sour nature of that relationship’s demise and Red Bull’s desire not to be relegated to engine customer status makes it unlikely to be the team’s first priority.

    “As Honda we had so many things from the teams, so we want to give it back somehow in a nice way for the future”
    - Masahi Yamamoto

    One alternative, which would likely require significant Red Bull commitment as well as agreement from all parties, is for Red Bull to assume Honda’s intellectual property and create a continuation programme for its engines, potentially with additional technical support from another partner.

    The Race understands no such request has been made but Honda is willing to consider it as it wishes to make its exit as painless as possible, especially as Red Bull Racing and AlphaTauri helped make it an F1 winner again after three hard years with McLaren.

    Honda F1 managing director Masashi Yamamoto told The Race: “Honda is happy to talk to them if they need us in any way, not only about the power unit but about other things as well.

    “To support AlphaTauri and Red Bull for their programme after 2021 in any way, we’re happy to cooperate.

    “As Honda we had so many things from the teams, so we want to give it back somehow in a nice way for the future.”

    Asked if there is a limit to how Honda would be willing to help and if it that would stop a potential continuation project using Honda’s technology, Yamamoto said: “If that kind of request is made from the team, I am ready to speak to Japan.

    “I personally want to support [what Red Bull and AlphaTauri do] as much as possible.”

    Creating the infrastructure required to take over development of Honda’s engine would be a significant undertaking by Red Bull.

    However, it has grown its facility at Milton Keynes, has major technical resources and partners, and could use it to redistribute some staff given the incoming budget cap in 2021 will force it to scale back its race team.

    Building its own engine in the short-term is not possible for Red Bull but it may consider a rebadged continuation project realistic and preferable to becoming a customer again.

    Honda started its Red Bull relationship in 2018 with the then-Toro Rosso junior team, as a precursor to a potential partnership with the senior outfit

    Red Bull was convinced early in the season to make the switch from Renault, with Honda dedicating resources to giving both the teams equal treatment as its de facto work outfits.

    “However in the future, Red Bull and AlphaTauri may not have that kind of situation with other parties,” Yamamoto acknowledged.

    “So, we want to support and help them in whatever way we can help them for the future.”

    “For next year, we will not reduce any people from our project. We will make the biggest effort in order to win as much as possible”
    - Masahi Yamamoto


    Honda extended its agreement with Red Bull at the end of 2019 to include the 2021 season.

    The manufacturer is therefore committed to seeing out that deal rather than undertaking a rapid exit when this season is over, which gives Red Bull more time to establish what it does for its two teams.

    Yamamoto said it has been a “frustrating” experience for himself and Honda CEO Takahiro Hachigo, who announced the company’s exit last Friday, as they wanted to keep the F1 programme going but had to respect the realities Honda is facing as an automotive company.

    He said it was also “uncomfortable” because of the impact it had on two teams and F1 if those teams could not find a competitive solution, reiterating Honda’s desire to help ease the consequences of its exit.

    “Our aim is now to exit the sport without making big [negative] changes in the sport,” he said. “That’s our target.”

    Honda has promised to develop a new engine for 2021 without reducing its commitment, to try to sign off with a world championship challenge.

    Though Red Bull and AlphaTauri have now both won with Honda, making it the only manufacturer to win with two teams in the V6 turbo-hybrid era, this season has not met expectations of a title assault.

    However, Red Bull is optimistic it may be able to challenge Mercedes next season, something Honda insists it will be dedicated to trying to achieve as well.

    “We still have seven more races to go this year first and we have various things we like to try for next year as well,” said Yamamoto.

    “Next year we will try to fight for the championship and have a good ending to our story.

    “For next year, we will not reduce any people from our project. We are going to develop more. And we will make the biggest effort in order to win as much as possible.

    “We will just keep pushing till the end.”

    https://the-race.com/formula-1/honda...ign=SocialSnap
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  16. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by WS6TransAm01 View Post
    That's hysterical, because the mining and refining of metals for batteries is carbon free? Or is the production of electricity?

    Sounds like a dumb excuse. They were finally achieving some success. Oh well.
    And if every car was replaced with battery cars we only have 17 years supply of Lithium. Battery cars are nothing more than what steam powered cars were, the true future is hydrogen fuel cells but does not fit the current narrative as will take decades to be truly viable. 3.0 V12's needed for F1 and to make even lower cost no fuel injection they can use carburettors. Remember petrol is a renuable fuel it just takes a while.

  17. #47
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    I really doubt they would go back to V12 with carbs. I'd bet V8's would be the best bet after sticking with a simpler version of the turbo v6's we have now. As for fuel, they can use bio fuels to make people feel better.

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