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Thread: HONDA exit. Will FERRARI supply RBR?

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    HONDA exit. Will FERRARI supply RBR?

    With honda announcing their exit, RBR are screwed. They burnt their bridges with Renault. Merc is unlikely to supply them with engines.
    Will Ferrari take the step? Afterall, we get more testing data and can improve at a greater pace.
    Flip side is, RBR might end up beating us with better Aero.

    Or are we looking at cosworth/porsche/audi etc stepping into F1?
    Silently, like a shadow

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    sorry. didnt see the discussion already on in another thread. This thread needs to be deleted.
    Silently, like a shadow

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    Renault will be forced to supply engines even if they wouldn't want to because the regulations say so.
    "I've always believed that you should never, ever give up and you should always keep fighting even when there's only a slightest chance." - Michael Schumacher

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    why are Honda leaving?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrarichamp View Post
    why are Honda leaving?
    GP2 engline.
    Silently, like a shadow

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    they haven't given themselves much time, were they expecting to win titles right away? anyway I see it as a loss because we will be limited to 3 engine manufacturers, all European, so hardly a 'global sport'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MSC Fan View Post
    Renault will be forced to supply engines even if they wouldn't want to because the regulations say so.
    Yup......again how they treat them is also important. Anyways max will exit in 2021 & jump either into Mercs/Renault.

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    Ferrari is already supplying engines to 2 teams, as per rules they can supply to 1 more. Alpha Tauri Ferrari could happen but Red Bull Renault will definitely happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrarichamp View Post
    why are Honda leaving?
    They thought they could win, after 6 years realized that they can beat any other company but Mercedes in engine development. This is why new companies don't come in, all of them are too afraid of getting their _ handed to them by Mercedes on a global public scale regularly. As Wolff would say "Just wanted to properly rub it in".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrarichamp View Post
    why are Honda leaving?
    They want to pursue EV's.

    They want to move away from petrol engines and be carbon free.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

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    That's it, they should change rules to 3.0 litre v12's. Ferrari would go with this, no manufacturers would touch F1 engines but specialists would, Cosworth, Gibson etc. Relativley simple, powerful sound great, relativley low costs. No mincing around with hybrid rubbish.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 330 p4 View Post
    That's it, they should change rules to 3.0 litre v12's. Ferrari would go with this, no manufacturers would touch F1 engines but specialists would, Cosworth, Gibson etc. Relativley simple, powerful sound great, relativley low costs. No mincing around with hybrid rubbish.
    Yes, switch to the old engines and treat F1 like a sport because it is a sport. This ain't a road car programme.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 330 p4 View Post
    That's it, they should change rules to 3.0 litre v12's. Ferrari would go with this, no manufacturers would touch F1 engines but specialists would, Cosworth, Gibson etc. Relativley simple, powerful sound great, relativley low costs. No mincing around with hybrid rubbish.
    It is either this or going too futuristic and into hydrogen fuel. Going futuristic will attract manufacturers who will leave the second they know someone else has a better programme/a series which is more promising comes up. Just going in for the actual racing beasts will attract a tonne of privateers but odds are they all could be rather uncompetitive in the beginning.

    I think, the best way to go is to be intermediate between both and simply get rid of rules forcing a single type of engine on all teams. Let's say one of the VW brands enter F1, the best way to prove their product is to outpace old and conventional combustion engine cars which would just provide more advertising than anything else Formula E has to offer. This could also throw open the door for privateers who could make loopholes and bring in further innovations.
    "I've always believed that you should never, ever give up and you should always keep fighting even when there's only a slightest chance." - Michael Schumacher

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    Quote Originally Posted by MSC Fan View Post
    It is either this or going too futuristic and into hydrogen fuel. Going futuristic will attract manufacturers who will leave the second they know someone else has a better programme/a series which is more promising comes up. Just going in for the actual racing beasts will attract a tonne of privateers but odds are they all could be rather uncompetitive in the beginning.

    I think, the best way to go is to be intermediate between both and simply get rid of rules forcing a single type of engine on all teams. Let's say one of the VW brands enter F1, the best way to prove their product is to outpace old and conventional combustion engine cars which would just provide more advertising than anything else Formula E has to offer. This could also throw open the door for privateers who could make loopholes and bring in further innovations.
    Good but then comes accusations of rules favouring one type of technology to push an industry agenda much like the advantageous LeMans rules for diesel a while back. Reason I say V12 and add to this limit ECU, materials is it's an old technology, little research needed to get to a base point. Cost cap engines, limit materials, no direct injection, common ECU, it would be close. Look at the Cosworth roadcar engines for Aston Valkrie and Murray supercar, it's for a different market but surpasses Ferraris V12 road engines in many aspects. Manufacturers can go and play with their batteries.

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    Just another nail in the f1 coffin.Why should Honda keep flogging a dead horse.Thanks fia you twisted ill influenced fools.The mercedes hybrid era is as hollow as it comes in every aspect and all titles are filled with emptiness consisting of manipulation and cohesion its right up there with wiki leaks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by paolo lalli View Post
    Just another nail in the f1 coffin.Why should Honda keep flogging a dead horse.Thanks fia you twisted ill influenced fools.The mercedes hybrid era is as hollow as it comes in every aspect and all titles are filled with emptiness consisting of manipulation and cohesion its right up there with wiki leaks.
    And any potential new F1 teams need to pay an entry fee of $ 200 million. So much for cost-cutting and attracting smaller teams and I doubt even major manufacturers will want to pay this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 330 p4 View Post
    That's it, they should change rules to 3.0 litre v12's. Ferrari would go with this, no manufacturers would touch F1 engines but specialists would, Cosworth, Gibson etc. Relativley simple, powerful sound great, relativley low costs. No mincing around with hybrid rubbish.
    Or like in the past, allow V8, V10 or V12 engines with varying angles from almost flat to 70 degrees. This will add variety as the cars will handle a lot more differently and have different pros and cons in terms of power. And as you say, far more easy for manufacturers to enter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormsearcher View Post
    GP2 engline.
    It’s far better than the ferrari this year, NO?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    They want to pursue EV's.

    They want to move away from petrol engines and be carbon free.
    That may be an excuse. Mercedes also wants to move away from petrol. Do they move away from F1 ?
    The real reason is that they felt this year would be their year and they saw a complete dominance of Mercedes along with what happened with DAS and the Aston Martin scandal and the writing was on the wall. Merc as it stands and namely Toto Wolff runs the show. So they just chose to leave.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aroutis View Post
    That may be an excuse. Mercedes also wants to move away from petrol. Do they move away from F1 ?
    The real reason is that they felt this year would be their year and they saw a complete dominance of Mercedes along with what happened with DAS and the Aston Martin scandal and the writing was on the wall. Merc as it stands and namely Toto Wolff runs the show. So they just chose to leave.

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    The only reason Mercedes isn't leaving is because they're winning. The second someone else holds the title and they prove to be competitive enough in Formula E, they'll just call it a day.
    "I've always believed that you should never, ever give up and you should always keep fighting even when there's only a slightest chance." - Michael Schumacher

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    Why would merc leave when they made it possible to control the pinnacle of motorsport ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by aroutis View Post
    Why would merc leave when they made it possible to control the pinnacle of motorsport ?

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    Because F1 is a sinking ship and it won't be the pinnacle of motorsport in the long term.
    "I've always believed that you should never, ever give up and you should always keep fighting even when there's only a slightest chance." - Michael Schumacher

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    Quote Originally Posted by aroutis View Post
    That may be an excuse. Mercedes also wants to move away from petrol. Do they move away from F1 ?
    The real reason is that they felt this year would be their year and they saw a complete dominance of Mercedes along with what happened with DAS and the Aston Martin scandal and the writing was on the wall. Merc as it stands and namely Toto Wolff runs the show. So they just chose to leave.

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    [bold area] Maybe. Honda currently has lost 46% of sales globally when compared to same time last year due to COVID-19 and the quest to move resources to EV's is probably an excuse.

    Honda is not leaving due to Mercedes dominance.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

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    They are not the only ones with loss of income and I would add to that that f1 marketing in this case would help them recover.
    But that is only me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 330 p4 View Post
    That's it, they should change rules to 3.0 litre v12's. Ferrari would go with this, no manufacturers would touch F1 engines but specialists would, Cosworth, Gibson etc. Relativley simple, powerful sound great, relativley low costs. No mincing around with hybrid rubbish.
    Quote Originally Posted by 330 p4 View Post
    Good but then comes accusations of rules favouring one type of technology to push an industry agenda much like the advantageous LeMans rules for diesel a while back. Reason I say V12 and add to this limit ECU, materials is it's an old technology, little research needed to get to a base point. Cost cap engines, limit materials, no direct injection, common ECU, it would be close. Look at the Cosworth roadcar engines for Aston Valkrie and Murray supercar, it's for a different market but surpasses Ferraris V12 road engines in many aspects. Manufacturers can go and play with their batteries.
    I like your ideas.

    F1 was and is at a crossroad's of whether to attract more OEM's or keep the formula simple and gain more "garagista's" and/or engine builders as well like Judd, Cosworth, and so forth.

    I love the V-10's but the V-8's with KERS was acceptable to me. This whole hybrid tech. is a joke and a waste of money. It definitely benefited Mercedes.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

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    The FIA does all it can for Merc with hybd. tech. and so on. Meanwhile Lewis says the FIA is out to hold him back . That 10 sec penalty and trying to add 2 pts. more to his License penalties sure looks like he's right.

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    Renault is the most sensible option for Red Bull, both from rules and sporting standpoint. But the "reunion" is going to be awkward for both parties.

    To me, the real question is, will Red Bull continue in F1 after 2021? They will definitely lose Max to Mercedes. And before anyone says, yes I know Red Bull has signed to stay in F1 until 2025. But there is an exit clause, they can legally leave after 2021.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    Renault is the most sensible option for Red Bull, both from rules and sporting standpoint. But the "reunion" is going to be awkward for both parties.

    To me, the real question is, will Red Bull continue in F1 after 2021? They will definitely lose Max to Mercedes. And before anyone says, yes I know Red Bull has signed to stay in F1 until 2025. But there is an exit clause, they can legally leave after 2021.
    Just a thought....
    Why can’t red fools buy the blue prints from Honda, and then try to perfect the already good power unit Honda has??.

    Sure it’s gonna be a lot cheaper than having them design their own engine from scratch....aferall, if they are for the long run in F1, this is the perfect scenario for them to take over the Honda power unit....i mean they have a boatload of money

    Is that even a possibility for them to do such thing?? I mean legally....

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    Quote Originally Posted by FerrariF60 View Post
    Just a thought....
    Why can’t red fools buy the blue prints from Honda, and then try to perfect the already good power unit Honda has??.

    Sure it’s gonna be a lot cheaper than having them design their own engine from scratch....aferall, if they are for the long run in F1, this is the perfect scenario for them to take over the Honda power unit....i mean they have a boatload of money

    Is that even a possibility for them to do such thing?? I mean legally....
    RedBull will never build or even take on the responsibility of maintianing and upgrading an F1 PU. Look at Mclaren in F1 and in their road cars.

    Also, in 2026, a new formula will be introduced.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    They want to pursue EV's.

    They want to move away from petrol engines and be carbon free.
    Strange as they just signed a multiyear contract with indycar.

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