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Thread: Eifel GP 2020 - RACE

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by PURE PASSION View Post
    So ot looks like ,the decision not to pit under safety car for softs,was Lec's because he had a huge graining problem on the 1st stint!!
    Didn't know about this. I guess, 8 points is better than no points.
    "I've always believed that you should never, ever give up and you should always keep fighting even when there's only a slightest chance." - Michael Schumacher

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSC Fan View Post
    Hamilton equalling Michael's record in his home.

    An Alpha Tauri pulling away from Charles.

    A Haas and an Alfa Romeo finishing ahead of Seb (in his home grand prix, no less).

    Could it get any worse? I think I'm skipping the rest of the season.
    It can! Just look at the picture
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  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by stefa View Post
    That brings a tear to my eye. But then again, records are made to be broken. Michael said that himself. Fair play to Hamilton. To us, Michael is and will always be special.
    "I've always believed that you should never, ever give up and you should always keep fighting even when there's only a slightest chance." - Michael Schumacher

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    Gasly had no business finishing ahead of Charles, on pace alone Charles-Ferrari was much faster than Gasly. But thanks to our pit wall yet again, who didn't go for a free pit stop under the SC but Gasly did, we have lost few valuable points. And looking at Charles's pace on worn out 25+ laps mediums, who knows what he could've done with a scrubbed softs or fresh hards.

    And as for Vettel, the less can be said the better. Did his textbook spin today, and race pace was all over the place. The fact that he couldn't clear out one Alfa the entire race, when Charles cleared Raikkonen in one lap, says everything. And even with the late safety car. he finishes 10+ seconds behind Charles.

    And Congrats to GIO for his well deserved point finish.
    The Alpha Tauri with the Honda power unit is probably quicker on race pace than our car, tifosi, but I agree with everything else you say, and it seems Charles didn't want to go back on to scrubbed softs under the SC after they fell off so quickly at the start, but that still doesn't excuse the pit crew's slow pit-stops which have been a feature all season compared to other teams. GIO getting a point was a bonus, maybe he should be in Seb's seat after all. Disappointing race all told after getting our hopes up in quali.

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSC Fan View Post
    records are made to be broken. Michael said that himself.
    True, but it's how they are broken that matters......at least for those that follow F1. But in the books, that's another story.


    Quote Originally Posted by MSC Fan View Post
    Fair play to Hamilton.
    Well, Hamilton made the right decision to sign with Mercedes for 2014 but fair play to Mercedes, the token system and engine freezes to give Hamilton AND Mercedes a very high level of dominance.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by wisepie View Post
    The Alpha Tauri with the Honda power unit is probably quicker on race pace than our car, tifosi, but I agree with everything else you say, and it seems Charles didn't want to go back on to scrubbed softs under the SC after they fell off so quickly at the start, but that still doesn't excuse the pit crew's slow pit-stops which have been a feature all season compared to other teams. GIO getting a point was a bonus, maybe he should be in Seb's seat after all. Disappointing race all told after getting our hopes up in quali.
    Great driving on one lap can cover some things but over a race no chance of covering the near 1 second a lap engine deficit. Ridiculous cannot bring a new engine, they have it already but cannot due to peasant poor teams like William's and McLaren even though the costs will not affect them.

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    True, but it's how they are broken that matters......at least for those that follow F1. But in the books, that's another story.




    Well, Hamilton made the right decision to sign with Mercedes for 2014 but fair play to Mercedes, the token system and engine freezes to give Hamilton AND Mercedes a very high level of dominance.
    That's exactly what makes Michael special to me. He has been with the team through the lowest of lows and the highest of highs. I'm sure Hamilton is a top 10 of all time driver but that is something he has never done. Let's hope, we have a similar relationship with Charles (with already having seen the lowest of lows).
    "I've always believed that you should never, ever give up and you should always keep fighting even when there's only a slightest chance." - Michael Schumacher

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSC Fan View Post
    That's exactly what makes Michael special to me. He has been with the team through the lowest of lows and the highest of highs. I'm sure Hamilton is a top 10 of all time driver but that is something he has never done. Let's hope, we have a similar relationship with Charles (with already having seen the lowest of lows).
    Well, Michael made decision's for Ferrari in all aspects.....personnel and car.

    Lewis made a decision to sign with Mercedes......Mercedes does the decision's for him.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Well, Michael made decision's for Ferrari in all aspects.....personnel and car.

    Lewis made a decision to sign with Mercedes......Mercedes does the decision's for him.
    I agree.
    "I've always believed that you should never, ever give up and you should always keep fighting even when there's only a slightest chance." - Michael Schumacher

  10. #160
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    I’ll say it again. Even though Lewis achieved a record, he’s nowhere near MS.
    MS is different in his league.

    Lewis benefitted from the strongest car, where Merc kept their dominance till date.
    Where as MS era, there were lot of fastest cars/drivers around him still he came out on top.

    In simple terms, MS had the competition & earned his titles. Whereas Lewis had no competition & he played smart in picking uP his battles when needed.

    No matter what record is broken, MS records have a meaning.

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by wisepie View Post
    The Alpha Tauri with the Honda power unit is probably quicker on race pace than our car, tifosi, but I agree with everything else you say, and it seems Charles didn't want to go back on to scrubbed softs under the SC after they fell off so quickly at the start, but that still doesn't excuse the pit crew's slow pit-stops which have been a feature all season compared to other teams. GIO getting a point was a bonus, maybe he should be in Seb's seat after all. Disappointing race all told after getting our hopes up in quali.
    We should get our hopes up. Ferrari is going in the right direction, they have hade a step forward with the new parts. Due to the rules, the number of upgrades that can be introduced this year are quite limited. But still, the performance uplift they have made with this small upgrades is positive.

    But we need to shake up the pit wall. How many times are we gonna complain about it? Others are doing 2-2.4 seconds pit stop, and we can't even go under 3 seconds. And its always about plan A, B, C etc. Rueda is not some strategy genius and he has proven that time and time, and under Mekies the race operation is pretty much subpar. They are paying some hefty bucks to people who are not good at their respective jobs.

    And the less that can be said about Vettel the better. Leclerc is carrying the team all by himself and our very very expensive number 2 driver does nothing but spins. A few more races and then he's gone, the only plus point regarding Vettel.

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    I’ll say it again. Even though Lewis achieved a record, he’s nowhere near MS.
    MS is different in his league.

    Lewis benefitted from the strongest car, where Merc kept their dominance till date.
    Where as MS era, there were lot of fastest cars/drivers around him still he came out on top.

    In simple terms, MS had the competition & earned his titles. Whereas Lewis had no competition & he played smart in picking uP his battles when needed.

    No matter what record is broken, MS records have a meaning.
    +1
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  13. #163
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    Why do you guys care so much about MS? If he helped Mercedes get to where they are it's kind of Karma that his records gets eclipsed by them... it's self-inflicted...
    Rest in Peace Leza, you were a true warrior...

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    This is a long shot, but isnt Wind Tunnel Time decided by the final position on the constructor championship.

    May be knowing there are fundamental issues, there is no point in wasting resources. Better account for more Wind Tunnel and development time by finishing lower this year, and expend all once the new WT is activated.

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    https://www.facebook.com/10534287714...9/?extid=0&d=n

    It hurts to read. :(


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  17. #167
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    The Michael vs Lewis debate it reminds me much of the Jordan vs Kobe debate I hear among my basketball friends. Like MJ and Kobe, Michael and Lewis are a part of different eras of the sport. The rules/cars are different. Both were unquestionably the best of "their" era.

    One thing that the "successor" (Lewis/Kobe) has always shown is a reverence for the history of the sport and the greats which came before.

    I won't mince words and am adult enough to admit it, I welled up seeing young Mick deliver Schumi's signature lid to Lewis. It was a POWERFUL moment for me, thinking of all the moments I witnessed nearly 20 years ago with Michael and now seeing Lewis equal his feats.

    Say what you will about Lewis, I know not many on this board respect him, but he CARES. You have to be very jaded to not think the emotion he showed wasn't genuine as he saw Mick and received the helmet.

    That makes me admire him. We want our BEST to respect and acknowledge the past. We have now seen Lewis do that with Aryton (Canada, breaking pole record), Monaco while grieving the loss of Niki and now here when matching Michael's win total. The history of the sport matters to him and I respect him greatly for giving a damn about it.

    Ok now, continue your "this is better than that" debates.

  18. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by h3ro View Post
    The Michael vs Lewis debate it reminds me much of the Jordan vs Kobe debate I hear among my basketball friends. Like MJ and Kobe, Michael and Lewis are a part of different eras of the sport. The rules/cars are different. Both were unquestionably the best of "their" era.

    One thing that the "successor" (Lewis/Kobe) has always shown is a reverence for the history of the sport and the greats which came before.

    I won't mince words and am adult enough to admit it, I welled up seeing young Mick deliver Schumi's signature lid to Lewis. It was a POWERFUL moment for me, thinking of all the moments I witnessed nearly 20 years ago with Michael and now seeing Lewis equal his feats.

    Say what you will about Lewis, I know not many on this board respect him, but he CARES. You have to be very jaded to not think the emotion he showed wasn't genuine as he saw Mick and received the helmet.

    That makes me admire him. We want our BEST to respect and acknowledge the past. We have now seen Lewis do that with Aryton (Canada, breaking pole record), Monaco while grieving the loss of Niki and now here when matching Michael's win total. The history of the sport matters to him and I respect him greatly for giving a damn about it.

    Ok now, continue your "this is better than that" debates.
    MJ was and still is the GOAT of basketball......PPG in his entire career, MVP accolades, # of title rings, leadership in players (Pippen, Paxson, Kerr, Cartwright, BJ Armstrong, Rodman,etc.), defeated againts the Celtics (Bird, Mchale), defeated against the Lakers(Majic, Kareem Abdul Jabaar, Worthy), defeated against the Pistons (Thomas, Lambeer, etc).

    The formula for basketball never changes BUT the players certainly do.

    Quite different from F1 since the formula and technology changes.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  19. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    MJ was and still is the GOAT of basketball......PPG in his entire career, MVP accolades, # of title rings, leadership in players (Pippen, Paxson, Kerr, Cartwright, BJ Armstrong, Rodman,etc.), defeated againts the Celtics (Bird, Mchale), defeated against the Lakers(Majic, Kareem Abdul Jabaar, Worthy), defeated against the Pistons (Thomas, Lambeer, etc).

    The formula for basketball never changes BUT the players certainly do.

    Quite different from F1 since the formula and technology changes.
    Stating the "formula" has not changed is reductive! It's a different sport now. The spaceing allowed, contact allowed are all changed. The officiating is completely different as well. Hand-checking and Zone defense alone make for a completely different category of sport.

    Technology and physical training advancements apply to both sports as well.

    Now, I agree, Michael Jordan was the best. But that also doesn't mean that Kobe wasn't the best of his era. Overall GOATs are for us to debate over forever.

    This applies directly to Lewis and Michael as well.

    Either way, my point regarding his reverence for his predecessor champions stands. Lewis cares and we should respect that he does.
    Last edited by h3ro; 12th October 2020 at 01:47.

  20. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by h3ro View Post
    Stating the "formula" has not changed is reductive! It's a different sport now. The spaceing allowed, contact allowed are all changed. The officiating is completely different as well. Hand-checking and Zone defense alone make for a completely different category of sport.

    Technology and physical training advancements apply to both sports as well.

    Now, I agree, Michael Jordan was the best. But that also doesn't mean that Kobe wasn't the best of his era. Overall GOATs are for us to debate over forever.

    This applies directly to Lewis and Michael as well.

    Either way, my point regarding his reverence for his predecessor champions stands. Lewis cares and we should respect that he does.
    To me, MJ was and still is the GOAT given his accolades, leadership ability, stats, rings, the teams he played against with TOP FLIGHT AGGRESSIVE players. Michael would talk "trash" on the court to his players and to his aggressors....to psych them either into playing better(his players) or get in their heads (aggressors) to mess up.

    Kobe was good....but Kobe's stat's and rewards talk.....MJ's stats and rewards SHOUTED.

    F1 Michael vs Lewis are completely different. Michael made Ferrari into a powerhouse team given the rules and regulations then.

    Lewis did'nt do anything regarding building Mercedes. Mercedes built itself and handled everything for Lewis since 2014 till current given the rules and regulations.

    This turbo hybrid era has been unfair to the other teams. Yes, the other teams agreed to it in the beginning but afterwards, they all realized how big this "monster" really is. Honda is pulling out as an engine supplier after 2021. With Honda's vast resources-->cars, suv's, jets, lawn mowers, weed-eaters, generators and unlimited budget...this current formula is too costly and too complex to catch up to Mercedes.

    F1 and the FIA are going to have to decide in 2026 in either of these 2 options:

    Option 1: keep the same formula WITHOUT any new manufacturers joining in thereby making the formula road relevant??? (no body will join if the formula stays the same). The manufacturers want less of a carbon footprint.

    Option 2: "dumb-down" the formula and make it simple so other engine builders can join in (Cosworth, Judd, Illmor, Porsche) for the SHOW & ENTERTAINMENT aspect of F1.


    2026 will be the deciding factor of F1 (actually 2024 because it takes 2 years to fit the formula in the cars).
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  21. #171
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    Just putting things into perspective.

    Vettel for the whole season up to the EifelGP has earned 17pts. Vettel is P13 in the WDC standings.

    Hulk has raced 2 races and has earned 10pts up to the EifelGP. Hulk is P15 in the WDC standings.

    It's not how start but how you finish.

  22. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Just putting things into perspective.

    Vettel for the whole season up to the EifelGP has earned 17pts. Vettel is P13 in the WDC standings.

    Hulk has raced 2 races and has earned 10pts up to the EifelGP. Hulk is P15 in the WDC standings.

    It's a shame. His only chances in scoring points would be Portimao, Turkey and Abu Dhabi. There is no way we would be scoring a single point in both Bahrain races. I could see Charles contend for 6th in the standings though. Seb is likely to finish 13th though (Ocon in 12th has more than twice as many points).
    "I've always believed that you should never, ever give up and you should always keep fighting even when there's only a slightest chance." - Michael Schumacher

  23. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schumiklub View Post
    http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...78dfd32866.jpg


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  24. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Just putting things into perspective.

    Vettel for the whole season up to the EifelGP has earned 17pts. Vettel is P13 in the WDC standings.

    Hulk has raced 2 races and has earned 10pts up to the EifelGP. Hulk is P15 in the WDC standings.

    Nothing much to say. Disaster season for him with disaster car.
    It showed his weakness, he can’t cope up with a car which is not strong. But that doesn’t make him ordinary racer.
    We shall see next season, how it goes.

  25. #175
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    HAMILTON: I’M MERCEDES’ ‘RUDDER’ LIKE SCHUMACHER AT FERRARI

    https://the-race.com/formula-1/hamil...er-at-ferrari/
    #KeepFightingMichael | #CiaoJules

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    my guess is Ham will probably take the title in Turkey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MSC Fan View Post
    It's a shame. His only chances in scoring points would be Portimao, Turkey and Abu Dhabi. There is no way we would be scoring a single point in both Bahrain races. I could see Charles contend for 6th in the standings though. Seb is likely to finish 13th though (Ocon in 12th has more than twice as many points).
    The standard Bahrain layout should be less bad than people expect, in principle it's quite similar to Nürburgring.

  28. #178
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    [QUOTE=jgonzalesm6;1035811]Well, Michael made decision's for Ferrari in all aspects.....personnel and car. Michael had his contract with Ferrari clearly say he was #1 driver and #2 had to move over when ever he needed it.

    Lewis made a decision to sign with Mercedes......Mercedes does the decision's for him. Lewis signed knowing the decision is he has no 1,2 driver rules. He has to race and beat his team mate on the track just like the other drivers.

    Charles fought his way past a 4x WDC driver to be the #1 driver @ Ferrari and looks to be a sure WDC winner as soon as Ferrari comes up with a great car. There you have it, 3 great drivers.

  29. #179
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    [QUOTE=Brembo;1035847]
    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Well, Michael made decision's for Ferrari in all aspects.....personnel and car. Michael had his contract with Ferrari clearly say he was #1 driver and #2 had to move over when ever he needed it.

    Lewis made a decision to sign with Mercedes......Mercedes does the decision's for him. Lewis signed knowing the decision is Charles he had no 1,2 driver rules. He has to race and beat his team mate on the track just like the other drivers.

    Charles fought his way to be the #1 driver @ Ferrari and looks to be a sure WDC winner as soon as Ferrari comes up with a graet car. There you have it, 3 great drivers.
    Lewis alway has no.1 status in his team. Don’t side track it
    It’s only Charles who doesn’t have that when he signed then he earned it through his performance against his team mate.

    If numbers only speaks, Lewis is a great driver in the books.
    If numbers aren’t, he’s always after the greats of AS, MS, Alonso. He’s not even reach to them.

  30. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSC Fan View Post
    That brings a tear to my eye. But then again, records are made to be broken. Michael said that himself. Fair play to Hamilton. To us, Michael is and will always be special.
    Well said sir!
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