Ferrari Lover
Hulk has scored more points in his 8 last races then Seb.Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6
Just putting things into perspective.
Vettel for the whole season up to the EifelGP has earned 17pts. Vettel is P13 in the WDC standings.
Hulk has raced 2 races and has earned 10pts up to the EifelGP. Hulk is P15 in the WDC standings.
Hero's come and go, but legends never die!
Full Member
[QUOTE=nani_s23;1035848]Lewis has 91 wins so far this season. He reached 91 with 261 entries so far. Michael did 91 with 308 entries . 47 more entries than Lewis. Yes the numbers speak for any driver. Lewis is 1 status @ Merc because he brings home the points. He has to and does race and have to beat Bottas. He's not #1 because he forced it into his contract. There's a difference. Up until Bottas' DNF Lewis and him were racing for that 1st place. No moving over either way. { Todt on the radio!}
Lewis alway has no.1 status in his team. Don’t side track it
It’s only Charles who doesn’t have that when he signed then he earned it through his performance against his team mate.
If numbers only speaks, Lewis is a great driver in the books.
If numbers aren’t, he’s always after the greats of AS, MS, Alonso. He’s not even reach to them.If numbers only speak; Michael for sure was a great driver . The same now goes for Lewis' car!
Full Member
Who cares about records they are yesterdays news.Break them and move on.Fair play to hamilton and mercedes it dosent matter how they got there the fact is they have.
Full Member
Agree with Sir Jackie Stewart....1000% (Mercedes and Lewis in this turbo hybrid era)
‘Hamilton isn’t the GOAT, has an unfair advantage’
That, though, doesn’t mean he isn’t up there with the best.
In the debate over who is the greatest Formula 1 driver of all time, the numbers weigh heavily in Michael Schumacher and Hamilton’s favour.
While Schumacher still holds the record for the most grand prix wins, 91, and the most World titles, seven, Hamilton is closing fast.
He could match Schumacher’s win tally at this weekend’s Eifel Grand Prix while his 44-point lead in the championship has him marching towards a seventh World title of his own.
Stewart, though, believes Mercedes’ superiority over the chasing pack has given the Brit an “most unfair” advantage.
“Lewis drives extremely well, make no mistake, I’m not in any way diminishing his skills. But it’s not the same,” the triple World Champion told the ‘In the Fast Lane podcast’.
“When Fangio was doing it, he drove in such a way, it was quite extraordinary – he would choose Ferrari, and then he would think ‘well Maserati next year might be good’, so he never did more than a one-year contract.
“And then he drove for Mercedes-Benz and won two World Championships I think with them, because they were the best cars in the world at that time.
“But he also chose very well the people he had with him.
“Lewis made a very good decision when he left McLaren at that time and went to Mercedes-Benz, and I take my hat off to him for making that decision.
“But frankly, the car and the engine are now so superior that it’s almost unfair on the rest of the field.
“Now you can’t say that, you must take your hat off to Mercedes-Benz, to Toto Wolff and to Niki Lauda before that for making one hell of a team, for choosing the best engineers, getting the best money that most other teams couldn’t get, apart from Red Bull.
“It’s not quite the same respect, if you like, of being able to do it in less than the best car.
“And that’s where sometimes there was a difference between the very, very great drivers and the ones that were very successful.
“It’s difficult to say that about Lewis, not being as good as Fangio was, in my mind and a lot of people would find fault in that.
“But I’ve been watching motor racing [since] I was a wee boy.
“My brother was a racing driver, I was going with him to races and seeing Ascari and Nuvolari and Caracciola and people like that who were coming to races. Some of the best racing drivers in the world, I saw.
“Stirling Moss was certainly one of them and he never won a World Championship because he was never drove the right cars. He also wanted to drive British.
“So it is difficult to put that in proper terms but beating Schumacher is a big thing because Schumacher himself chose well, leaving Benetton and then into Ferrari and made Ferrari buy the best. He really was a giant in thinking apart from his driving.
“To say Lewis is the greatest of all time would be difficult for me to justify, in sheer power of what the other drivers were doing.”
The Scot added that today’s numbers cannot be compared with yesteryears given that today’s drivers spend 20 to 22 Sundays racing Formula 1 cars whereas in Juan Manuel Fangio’s era they also raced in other series.
“I don’t think that you can account that sort of level of success, just because today there are 20, 22 races,” he explained.
“Whereas in the old days when Fangio was racing… Juan Manuel Fangio in my mind the greatest driver that ever lived, with Jim Clark the second greatest, even ahead of [Ayrton] Senna.
“But those people only raced maybe sometimes six, eight or nine races a year in Formula 1.
“They were driving sportscars, GT cars, etc etc.
“But the World Championship now, Lewis Hamilton, or any of the other top contenders today, are doing 22 races, or 21 races, but only in Formula 1.
“Not in touring cars, not in GT cars, not in IndyCars, not in Can-Am cars.
“You can’t really compare.”
“I’d still say those two drivers I mentioned, plus Senna and to an extent Schumacher but even he wasn’t doing other races whereas the Fangios were.”
https://www.planetf1.com/news/jackie...air-advantage/
It's not how start but how you finish.
Full Member
Agree with Sir Jackie Stewart....1000% (Mercedes and Lewis in this turbo hybrid era)
‘Hamilton isn’t the GOAT, has an unfair advantage’
That, though, doesn’t mean he isn’t up there with the best.
In the debate over who is the greatest Formula 1 driver of all time, the numbers weigh heavily in Michael Schumacher and Hamilton’s favour.
While Schumacher still holds the record for the most grand prix wins, 91, and the most World titles, seven, Hamilton is closing fast.
He could match Schumacher’s win tally at this weekend’s Eifel Grand Prix while his 44-point lead in the championship has him marching towards a seventh World title of his own.
Stewart, though, believes Mercedes’ superiority over the chasing pack has given the Brit an “most unfair” advantage.
“Lewis drives extremely well, make no mistake, I’m not in any way diminishing his skills. But it’s not the same,” the triple World Champion told the ‘In the Fast Lane podcast’.
“When Fangio was doing it, he drove in such a way, it was quite extraordinary – he would choose Ferrari, and then he would think ‘well Maserati next year might be good’, so he never did more than a one-year contract.
“And then he drove for Mercedes-Benz and won two World Championships I think with them, because they were the best cars in the world at that time.
“But he also chose very well the people he had with him.
“Lewis made a very good decision when he left McLaren at that time and went to Mercedes-Benz, and I take my hat off to him for making that decision.
“But frankly, the car and the engine are now so superior that it’s almost unfair on the rest of the field.
“Now you can’t say that, you must take your hat off to Mercedes-Benz, to Toto Wolff and to Niki Lauda before that for making one hell of a team, for choosing the best engineers, getting the best money that most other teams couldn’t get, apart from Red Bull.
“It’s not quite the same respect, if you like, of being able to do it in less than the best car.
“And that’s where sometimes there was a difference between the very, very great drivers and the ones that were very successful.
“It’s difficult to say that about Lewis, not being as good as Fangio was, in my mind and a lot of people would find fault in that.
“But I’ve been watching motor racing [since] I was a wee boy.
“My brother was a racing driver, I was going with him to races and seeing Ascari and Nuvolari and Caracciola and people like that who were coming to races. Some of the best racing drivers in the world, I saw.
“Stirling Moss was certainly one of them and he never won a World Championship because he was never drove the right cars. He also wanted to drive British.
“So it is difficult to put that in proper terms but beating Schumacher is a big thing because Schumacher himself chose well, leaving Benetton and then into Ferrari and made Ferrari buy the best. He really was a giant in thinking apart from his driving.
“To say Lewis is the greatest of all time would be difficult for me to justify, in sheer power of what the other drivers were doing.”
The Scot added that today’s numbers cannot be compared with yesteryears given that today’s drivers spend 20 to 22 Sundays racing Formula 1 cars whereas in Juan Manuel Fangio’s era they also raced in other series.
“I don’t think that you can account that sort of level of success, just because today there are 20, 22 races,” he explained.
“Whereas in the old days when Fangio was racing… Juan Manuel Fangio in my mind the greatest driver that ever lived, with Jim Clark the second greatest, even ahead of [Ayrton] Senna.
“But those people only raced maybe sometimes six, eight or nine races a year in Formula 1.
“They were driving sportscars, GT cars, etc etc.
“But the World Championship now, Lewis Hamilton, or any of the other top contenders today, are doing 22 races, or 21 races, but only in Formula 1.
“Not in touring cars, not in GT cars, not in IndyCars, not in Can-Am cars.
“You can’t really compare.”
“I’d still say those two drivers I mentioned, plus Senna and to an extent Schumacher but even he wasn’t doing other races whereas the Fangios were.”
https://www.planetf1.com/news/jackie...air-advantage/
It's not how start but how you finish.
Full Member
As a Ferrari fan, there are far more important things to worry about than Schumacher's records.
And yes, Hamilton has had the outright best cars in 2014-2016, 2019-2020. But in 2017-2018, Hamilton made all the difference. Even if Vettei was driving the Mercedes and Hamilton the Ferrari, Hamilton would've still won both 2017 and 2018 titles.
Hamilton is going the become the most successful driver in this sport, he is rewriting history. Being bitter about it not gonna change anything at all. 7 world titles (almost) and 91+ race wins, its an insane record and no one knows where he will end up in the end. And compared to past legends, Hamilton is much more clean and fair on track.
Records are there to be broken. And let's hope that one day, Charles will break Hamilton's records with Ferrari.
Full Member
As long as Mercedes and/or Hamilton are still around, no one will break Mercedes/Lewis records given the rules and regulations implemented in this turbo hybrid era.
The only ways for Ferrari to possibly beat Mercedes/Lewis records 1) Mercedes leaves F1 2) The FIA and F1 dumbs down the PU.
Who's to say in 2024 going into 2026, Mercedes introduces a new "component" in the formula to go even more "greener" or "carbon neutral."
Mercedes is probably working on it right now. What then???
I'm hoping F1 and the FIA "dumb-down" the PU for 2026. I really don't care if Mercedes leaves F1. This turbo hybrid era was tailor made for Mercedes given the token system and engine freezes and hybridization.
As long as hybridization is in F1 and advances....plus the engine freezes......Ferrari has no chance of qualifying P1 and running away in the race and lapping cars half-way into the race. Hybridization in F1 has been Ferrari's achillies heal and if advances in F1 it will still be Ferrari's achillies heal.
It's not how start but how you finish.
Full Member
Another f1 season with covit restrictions will bank rupt f1.
Full Member
All I care about is Ferrari’s records, if Mercedes start challenging these then I will start getting worried.
Avanti Fer, Avanti !
Agree with this, most people think Hamilton's success is all down to the rocket ships he has been driving. He indeed is a very very good driver, 2017-18 were proof about his intelligence with speed to beat rivals. He is again one of those, who if not have perfect equipment beneath them, still will try to take out more from it than their team mates
George Kabardis
Ham was really lucky to be in the most longterm dominant team and with the most races per year.
If this don't happen again in the future with another driver, I see his record's to stay for probably ever.
FERRARI FOR EVER !!!!!!!
George Kabardis
Nobady says that he's not top driver. Whoever says that is naive!!!! The thing is that being in a such dominant team for so long , made him bigger then he actually is . For sure he is probably the best of his generation bacause he combines speed , intelligence and mental strength. BUT he also has shown cracks when he was fighting right and left when he was in McLaren and didn't have a dominant car!!!! Then there was little separating him from Button!!!!
Ferrari Affiliate
[QUOTE=Brembo;1035854]Michael ended his career with 308 races, but did not reach 91 with 308 races.
Lewis has 91 wins so far this season. He reached 91 with 261 entries so far. Michael did 91 with 308 entries . 47 more entries than Lewis. Yes the numbers speak for any driver. Lewis is 1 status @ Merc because he brings home the points. He has to and does race and have to beat Bottas. He's not #1 because he forced it into his contract. There's a difference. Up until Bottas' DNF Lewis and him were racing for that 1st place. No moving over either way. { Todt on the radio!}
Nice try tho. Really nice. :)
Michael's last win was at 2006 Chinese GP. We can make simple math and see how many races it took him to get to #91.
"If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve
Full Member
[QUOTE=aroutis;1035873]You are always making sure I'm not making any false posts either unintentional or otherwise for which am grateful to you. 308 total entries for Michael and he remained @ 91 wins. That comes to 29.55% Lewis has reached 91 wins with 261 entries so far. That comes to 34.87% ; with years more ahead . Michael as you said in China 2006 was @ 247 races when he did his 91st. Lewis did his 91st. at his 261st race. 14 less races for Michael. I did post the word entries; meaning just that. Nice try tho. Really nice ! So please! No points on my F-1 posting license. Michael also did his wins with 16 less starts from pole than Lewis. According to a few fans here winning from pole is almost not a true fair win. I always thought getting on pole was a great thing to do each race. Lewis got his 1st title after his 2nd season. It took Michael 4!! Two weeks is toooo long a wait for the next race. Stay Safe!
Ferrari Affiliate
Your post is right there for people to read what you said.
Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk
"If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve
Full Member
[QUOTE=aroutis;1035876]Your post is right there for people to read what you said.
That's right, I'm sure most people read and understood the difference between entries and races at the time of 91 for Michael. Lewis is still on entries @91 Putting that aside; I was amazed at how well Ross spoke of Lewis' driving to win , not just the car and how unfair it is to say that. He said he can't even fathom how many records Lewis will leave when he retires. Coming from Ross that's a big time compliment to a F-1 driver. Now only if Ferrari can get Charles on the track with a competitive car!!
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