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Thread: Turkish Grand Prix 2020 - Race

  1. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by ferrari1.8t View Post
    Its not about doubting his ability, he is definitely a great racer and has talent. I disagree however with calling him the "Goat". You cannot deny the fact that for 6 of his titles he only had to fight 1 other driver, and Bottas has proven time and time again that he is absolutely useless. Hamilton has been fortunate enough to drive the strongest car in F1 history. I refer to an old quote from Marko from testing last year where the rookie Mazepin jumped into the W10 and took P1 straight away:

    Speaking to Auto Bild, he said: “That a second-class Formula 2 driver is fast right off the bat in the Mercedes shows just how superior it is. More superior than ever.

    https://www.planetf1.com/news/marko-...w10-dominance/ - If your interested.

    Plain and simple, Mercedes has produced the most dominant cars in the history of F1 - Hamilton has benefitted from that.

    I hope Ferrari has their day again soon; Leclerc is too talented to waste and I am dreaming of adding to our 16 WCC titles!
    Max made a statement this year that 90% of the drivers on the grid would win in the Mercedes in the W11.

    I feel that me be a little high but IMO it would be over 80% of the drivers on the grid....including past variants as well.

    Mazepin I consider to be an average F2 driver......but no where near Leclerc's level when he was in F2.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

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    GO " All TIME" includes time driving for Merc. He got destroyed there. GREAT but not GOAT. The numbers 7, 94 97 so far speak for themselves. Lewis needs that car, he could never win a race on foot!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ntukza View Post
    It's a problem when hatred for LH clouds one's recollection of events. Leclerc only passed two cars in the wet I think (maybe 3) - Russell and a struggling Stroll . The rest he leapfrogged on his two pit stops, and then did a few overtakes when there was more grip, and also some of them spun themselves out of contention. Yes, Lewis was struggling badly in the wet, in fact he was struggling all weekend. But he didn't do anything silly, no major spins, and despite struggling more than most, he still went on to win. If you can't at least appreciate that you really shouldn't be an F1 fan.

    Well for one, it's not up to you to decide whether or not I should be an F1 fan. And second, if you really think Hamilton's race was better than Leclerc's, well then that's for you to decide. Personally, I think Leclerc was the best out there this race. Like I stated, and your opinion won't change it... Hamilton had a good race but rather uneventful. He couldn't pass Vettel even when Albon passed him pretty easily. He sat back and waited until his car was the quickest out there and then brought it home. He has the luxury of doing that. Leclerc had to pass people to get to 3rd and eventually 4th. You can like Hamilton all day long, doesn't bother me and for what it's worth, I think he's a pretty good driver, def one of the best, but the car is making it easy for him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    GO " All TIME" includes time driving for Merc. He got destroyed there. GREAT but not GOAT. The numbers 7, 94 97 so far speak for themselves. Lewis needs that car, he could never win a race on foot!

    How come you consider Hamilton the GOAT because of his numbers but you never considered Schumacher the GOAT when he owned all the records.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Bob View Post
    How come you consider Hamilton the GOAT because of his numbers but you never considered Schumacher the GOAT when he owned all the records.
    Don't feed the troll.

  6. #276
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    Brembo isn't a troll. He's a real F1 & Ferrari fan, through & through. Not sure what he has against Schumacher though.

  7. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Bob View Post
    Brembo isn't a troll. He's a real F1 & Ferrari fan, through & through. Not sure what he has against Schumacher though.
    Something to do with Barrichello, and the number 2. But like 458 Italia said, don’t feed the troll lol.
    ~FORZA FERRARI~

  8. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by ferrari1.8t View Post
    Something to do with Barrichello, and the number 2. But like 458 Italia said, don’t feed the troll lol.
    i think he thinks that Barrichello was as good as Schumi, YET Ferrari supported Michael more and never let 2Bans the benefit to beat Michael on track....because if they would have allowed him he would have beat him fair and square....but that is just my opinion about Brembo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Bob View Post
    Well for one, it's not up to you to decide whether or not I should be an F1 fan. And second, if you really think Hamilton's race was better than Leclerc's, well then that's for you to decide. Personally, I think Leclerc was the best out there this race. Like I stated, and your opinion won't change it... Hamilton had a good race but rather uneventful. He couldn't pass Vettel even when Albon passed him pretty easily. He sat back and waited until his car was the quickest out there and then brought it home. He has the luxury of doing that. Leclerc had to pass people to get to 3rd and eventually 4th. You can like Hamilton all day long, doesn't bother me and for what it's worth, I think he's a pretty good driver, def one of the best, but the car is making it easy for him.
    I thought Leclerc's race was much better than Hamilton's. Leclerc drove faster, and with enough time he would have caught Hamilton. These are facts. Your argument was not based on facts, that's all I was pointing out. Leclerc moved from P9 to P6 by leapfrogging (he couldn't overtake so he pitted early and cleared the 3 cars ahead of him). Then Max spun himself out of the way so that wasn't really an overtake, he overtook Albon and Seb and got to P3, and that was after LH had overtaken Perez, so don't use a drying track as an excuse for LH when it was the same for all. Again, Leclerc for me was the best on the day, but for LH to win with a car that was one of the worst, and make very few mistakes when someone who's said to be better than him (Max) drove a bad race with mistakes, was very impressive. I can tell you, not many drivers would have won that race in a Merc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ntukza View Post
    I thought Leclerc's race was much better than Hamilton's. Leclerc drove faster, and with enough time he would have caught Hamilton. These are facts. Your argument was not based on facts, that's all I was pointing out. Leclerc moved from P9 to P6 by leapfrogging (he couldn't overtake so he pitted early and cleared the 3 cars ahead of him). Then Max spun himself out of the way so that wasn't really an overtake, he overtook Albon and Seb and got to P3, and that was after LH had overtaken Perez, so don't use a drying track as an excuse for LH when it was the same for all. Again, Leclerc for me was the best on the day, but for LH to win with a car that was one of the worst, and make very few mistakes when someone who's said to be better than him (Max) drove a bad race with mistakes, was very impressive. I can tell you, not many drivers would have won that race in a Merc.
    Vettel/Max/Leclerc/Perez/ probably Carlos & DR could have won win with that Mercs car. Problem is they don’t have Mercs car.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    Vettel/Max/Leclerc/Perez/ probably Carlos & DR could have won win with that Mercs car. Problem is they don’t have Mercs car.
    No ways. Why would Max have won in the Merc when he couldn't win with a better car? Red Bull was better than Merc in Turkey. Same for Ferrari but our drivers started further back and definitely would have finished 1-2 if they had more laps. I'm not so sure about the rest on your list there. My bottom line is that the Merc was a terrible car to drive this weekend and yet it won the race. No luck, no safety car advantage, just good control, good thinking and good driving.
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  12. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by ferrari1.8t View Post
    Its not about doubting his ability, he is definitely a great racer and has talent. I disagree however with calling him the "Goat". You cannot deny the fact that for 6 of his titles he only had to fight 1 other driver, and Bottas has proven time and time again that he is absolutely useless. Hamilton has been fortunate enough to drive the strongest car in F1 history. I refer to an old quote from Marko from testing last year where the rookie Mazepin jumped into the W10 and took P1 straight away:

    Speaking to Auto Bild, he said: “That a second-class Formula 2 driver is fast right off the bat in the Mercedes shows just how superior it is. More superior than ever.

    https://www.planetf1.com/news/marko-...w10-dominance/ - If your interested.

    Plain and simple, Mercedes has produced the most dominant cars in the history of F1 - Hamilton has benefitted from that.

    I hope Ferrari has their day again soon; Leclerc is too talented to waste and I am dreaming of adding to our 16 WCC titles!
    Which is perfectly fine. Whether Hamilton is the greatest or not is debatable, but the fact is he's a strong candidate (if not the strongest) for that debate. But to me, I've started to come of the opinion that it's not possible nor it's fair to try and label someone as the clear best ever since the sport has changed so much over the eras that trying to compare stats is meaningless.

    But that wasn't the point of my post. Many posters here simply refuse to accept Hamilton's capabilities as a F1 driver, while they worship Schumacher and attribute all the achievements of 1999-2004 on Schumacher and Schumacher only. Which is funny to me.

    If it's only Schumacher and not Ferrari, then I can also say it's only Hamilton and not Mercedes. I'm not going to pay any attention to people who put all the Ferrari-Schumacher success on Schumacher only, while doing the opposite with Mercedes-Hamilton success story.

  13. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    Vettel/Max/Leclerc/Perez/ probably Carlos & DR could have won win with that Mercs car. Problem is they don’t have Mercs car.
    Quote Originally Posted by ntukza View Post
    No ways. Why would Max have won in the Merc when he couldn't win with a better car? Red Bull was better than Merc in Turkey. Same for Ferrari but our drivers started further back and definitely would have finished 1-2 if they had more laps. I'm not so sure about the rest on your list there. My bottom line is that the Merc was a terrible car to drive this weekend and yet it won the race. No luck, no safety car advantage, just good control, good thinking and good driving.

    This TurkishGP was'nt about engine performance given the temps, new track surface, and the wet surface. It was all about tire strategy and the length of laps intermediates could go as the track evolved (dry line). Experience helps too.

    Max had a 7 degree wing adjustment on one side of the front wing plus he spun out a couple of times. Dumb move overtaking Perez and got off the dry line and lost front wing downforce and spun out...nice save btw.

    Bottas had a steering wheel adjustment after colliding with Ocon 2x on the first lap.....which he spun out like 6x throughout the race.

    Leclerc was awesome....till the last lap with 3 corners left in the lap after passing Perez which Leclerc WAS P2. He went off the dry line and carried a bit much speed going into the turn thereby locking up his front left side...he lost 2 places and ended up P4.

    This was a 1 in a thousand race given the conditions of the track and the track being wet. No one knew an intermediate would go 45 or 50 laps as the track evolved.

    So experience counts. Even at the start of the race, Lewis, Seb, and Perez started in 2nd gear where others started in 1st and spun out on the starting grid and lost places.

    Hence, Lewis, Seb and Perez ended up on the podium....which the SF1000 is really a crappy car on the dry given the track.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  14. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    Which is perfectly fine. Whether Hamilton is the greatest or not is debatable, but the fact is he's a strong candidate (if not the strongest) for that debate. But to me, I've started to come of the opinion that it's not possible nor it's fair to try and label someone as the clear best ever since the sport has changed so much over the eras that trying to compare stats is meaningless.

    But that wasn't the point of my post. Many posters here simply refuse to accept Hamilton's capabilities as a F1 driver, while they worship Schumacher and attribute all the achievements of 1999-2004 on Schumacher and Schumacher only. Which is funny to me.

    If it's only Schumacher and not Ferrari, then I can also say it's only Hamilton and not Mercedes. I'm not going to pay any attention to people who put all the Ferrari-Schumacher success on Schumacher only, while doing the opposite with Mercedes-Hamilton success story.
    Lewis is the greatest of their era, G.O.T.E. as someone put it, given the rules and regulations that helped Mercedes and Lewis get 8 WCC and 7 WDC titles.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

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    Just F-1 wins and poles in the 100 s will be a hard act to follow for a while , throw in maybe 8 or more WDCs ! If that doesn't qualify a driver as GOAT nothing will.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    Just F-1 wins and poles in the 100 s will be a hard act to follow for a while , throw in maybe 8 or more WDCs ! If that doesn't qualify a driver as GOAT nothing will.
    In order for someone to beat 8 WDC's (if Hamilton accumulates that many WDC's) then the same rules and regulations have to apply. For example, let's say Renault, along with Mercedes, were adamant about hydrogen fuel for the next formula, then a token system and engine freezes would have to apply for THAT formula so that Renault would have a chance to beat or tie Hamilton's WDC's. This of course is just an example.

    Otherwise, if no token system or engine freezes are left out, then Hamilton's 8 WDC's (hypothetical at this point) would remain for quite a long time....maybe forever.

    So it remains that Lewis is the Greatest of their era given the rules and regulations that were implemented to give Mercedes and Lewis their dominant titles.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ntukza View Post
    I thought Leclerc's race was much better than Hamilton's. Leclerc drove faster, and with enough time he would have caught Hamilton. These are facts. Your argument was not based on facts, that's all I was pointing out. Leclerc moved from P9 to P6 by leapfrogging (he couldn't overtake so he pitted early and cleared the 3 cars ahead of him). Then Max spun himself out of the way so that wasn't really an overtake, he overtook Albon and Seb and got to P3, and that was after LH had overtaken Perez, so don't use a drying track as an excuse for LH when it was the same for all. Again, Leclerc for me was the best on the day, but for LH to win with a car that was one of the worst, and make very few mistakes when someone who's said to be better than him (Max) drove a bad race with mistakes, was very impressive. I can tell you, not many drivers would have won that race in a Merc.



    Really? It wasn't fact that Leclerc passed cars during the race. Was it so dry that when he passed Perez he was able to late brake him? Oh no wait, he lost control because it was slippery off the racing line. Why downplay Leclerc's passes and then say Hamilton was amazing. He only passed Perez once the track was drying out and he had DRS. He didn't have to follow anyone else after that. And his car wasn't the worst. It became the best, he just had to wait for it.
    And again, you don't need to lecture me on what I thought of the race. I'm not using a drying track as an excuse for Hamilton. I said it wasn't his best race, it was pretty easy for him once he was up front. Leclerc had to actually race to get position, so I think he had the better race. Nuff said I think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    Which is perfectly fine. Whether Hamilton is the greatest or not is debatable, but the fact is he's a strong candidate (if not the strongest) for that debate. But to me, I've started to come of the opinion that it's not possible nor it's fair to try and label someone as the clear best ever since the sport has changed so much over the eras that trying to compare stats is meaningless.

    But that wasn't the point of my post. Many posters here simply refuse to accept Hamilton's capabilities as a F1 driver, while they worship Schumacher and attribute all the achievements of 1999-2004 on Schumacher and Schumacher only. Which is funny to me.

    If it's only Schumacher and not Ferrari, then I can also say it's only Hamilton and not Mercedes. I'm not going to pay any attention to people who put all the Ferrari-Schumacher success on Schumacher only, while doing the opposite with Mercedes-Hamilton success story.

    Isn't this the same that gets said about Vettel? Where everyone always attributes his WDC's to having a Newey rocket? Only problem with hamilton is the fact that there hasn't been any competition at the front in so long. Good for him for having such a great car... but it sure would be nice to see him have to race in the middle once in a while, hopefully next year or in 2022.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Bob View Post
    Isn't this the same that gets said about Vettel? Where everyone always attributes his WDC's to having a Newey rocket? Only problem with hamilton is the fact that there hasn't been any competition at the front in so long. Good for him for having such a great car... but it sure would be nice to see him have to race in the middle once in a while, hopefully next year or in 2022.
    i would LOVE to see that....to have 3 team competition....Merc, Ferrari and Red Fools.....then and only then we'll see what Hamster is really made of....when you have Charles and Max battle it out with the FAKE GOAT... yeah i said it....FAKE.....because he's NEVER had any real competion ever since 2014.....apart from Rosberg who would NEVER accept a #2 status while he was at Merc....

    then we;ll see poor Louise come on the radio complaining about this and that......i for one cannot wait for Ferrari to have a competittive car, NOT the best....but as good as the merc and one that can challenge for WINS at every race.....and i'm sure Charles will do the rest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Bob View Post
    Really? It wasn't fact that Leclerc passed cars during the race. Was it so dry that when he passed Perez he was able to late brake him? Oh no wait, he lost control because it was slippery off the racing line. Why downplay Leclerc's passes and then say Hamilton was amazing. He only passed Perez once the track was drying out and he had DRS. He didn't have to follow anyone else after that. And his car wasn't the worst. It became the best, he just had to wait for it.
    And again, you don't need to lecture me on what I thought of the race. I'm not using a drying track as an excuse for Hamilton. I said it wasn't his best race, it was pretty easy for him once he was up front. Leclerc had to actually race to get position, so I think he had the better race. Nuff said I think.
    Lol you're so inconsistent it's rediculous. When you talk about LH's pass on Perez you say the track was drying out, yet when you talk about Leclerc pass on Perez you say the track was still wet. Brilliant.

    I just gave you the facts and you still choose to ignore them. You're a lost cause. Leclerc had the better race but LH also drove very well under the circumstances and actually won on merit - all your hatred for LH put together will never change that.
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    If it was Schumacher instead of Hamilton at Turkey, you'd say it was a brilliant drive. And if it was Hamilton who finished 2nd in the practice sessions and then drove from 14 to 3 in the race with his teammate up there with him, you'd say it was the car. Hypocrites!
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    Quote Originally Posted by ntukza View Post
    Lol you're so inconsistent it's rediculous. When you talk about LH's pass on Perez you say the track was drying out, yet when you talk about Leclerc pass on Perez you say the track was still wet. Brilliant.

    I just gave you the facts and you still choose to ignore them. You're a lost cause. Leclerc had the better race but LH also drove very well under the circumstances and actually won on merit - all your hatred for LH put together will never change that.
    Give it a rest man. I didn't slag your hero. I said Leclerc had the better race. You agree. Hamilton had another cruise to a win. I didn't say he didn't deserve it, I said I didn't think it was his best. And how was I inconsistent. hamilton only passed Perez - fact. Leclerc passed more cars - fact. Hamilton passed perez pretty easily down the straight with DRS- fact. I used Leclerc's pass on Perez to show that offline the track was still very wet and therefore passing cars was still pretty tough. how's that inconsistent? You're arguing with me because I don't share your view of the race. So what. I'm a lost cause because I don't fawn over Hamilton? I don't need to like your driver like you do. Stop insulting people that don't think like you.

  23. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by ntukza View Post
    If it was Schumacher instead of Hamilton at Turkey, you'd say it was a brilliant drive. And if it was Hamilton who finished 2nd in the practice sessions and then drove from 14 to 3 in the race with his teammate up there with him, you'd say it was the car. Hypocrites!
    So? Schumacher had many races with the best car when he could cruise to a win. But he's never had 6 years with the most dominant car.
    Did you cheer Schumacher on when he was winning from the front with the best car, or when Vettel was winning with the Newey rockets?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    In order for someone to beat 8 WDC's (if Hamilton accumulates that many WDC's) then the same rules and regulations have to apply. For example, let's say Renault, along with Mercedes, were adamant about hydrogen fuel for the next formula, then a token system and engine freezes would have to apply for THAT formula so that Renault would have a chance to beat or tie Hamilton's WDC's. This of course is just an example.

    Otherwise, if no token system or engine freezes are left out, then Hamilton's 8 WDC's (hypothetical at this point) would remain for quite a long time....maybe forever.

    So it remains that Lewis is the Greatest of their era given the rules and regulations that were implemented to give Mercedes and Lewis their dominant titles.
    Back then 91 should have been 90 wins. But the records are what they are. What the driver gets done on the track is how a win happens. Spinning out etc. is driver's fault., bad tire management ,drivers fault. Where's Bottas with all the rules & regs. favoring Merc ? Over at Ferrari Charles shows us fans driving has a lot to do with what you have, not the regs. etc. only. It's not how you start but how you finish! 100 s of poles and wins will count as real. Even WDCs at 7 are a tough act to follow. Charles is young, I hope he can come up big time with the good stuff, & please let it be with Ferrari , not going over to Merc to finish his career with his records.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Bob View Post
    Give it a rest man. I didn't slag your hero. I said Leclerc had the better race. You agree. Hamilton had another cruise to a win. I didn't say he didn't deserve it, I said I didn't think it was his best. And how was I inconsistent. hamilton only passed Perez - fact. Leclerc passed more cars - fact. Hamilton passed perez pretty easily down the straight with DRS- fact. I used Leclerc's pass on Perez to show that offline the track was still very wet and therefore passing cars was still pretty tough. how's that inconsistent? You're arguing with me because I don't share your view of the race. So what. I'm a lost cause because I don't fawn over Hamilton? I don't need to like your driver like you do. Stop insulting people that don't think like you.
    For what it's worth, I am in agreement with Silent Bob's view of Leclerc's race, I commented afterwards that the race came to HAM in the usual fashion, if there had been a few more laps and Charles hadn't tried the pass on Perez where he did, he might even have won!

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    I truly enjoyed reading a recent interview with Seb where he stole my line! He said Binotto should stay home for the rest of the season. Ferrari finally came back with points!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    Back then 91 should have been 90 wins. But the records are what they are. What the driver gets done on the track is how a win happens. Spinning out etc. is driver's fault., bad tire management ,drivers fault. Where's Bottas with all the rules & regs. favoring Merc ? Over at Ferrari Charles shows us fans driving has a lot to do with what you have, not the regs. etc. only. It's not how you start but how you finish! 100 s of poles and wins will count as real. Even WDCs at 7 are a tough act to follow. Charles is young, I hope he can come up big time with the good stuff, & please let it be with Ferrari , not going over to Merc to finish his career with his records.
    LOL
    Back then Schumacher should not have been stripped a year's victories.
    You know why?
    Because they did not do the same for Ayrton Senna when he bullied his way back in Japan.
    Because they did not do the same for L44 and Alonso with Cheatgate.

    Give it a rest you're ridiculo (by the words of Alonso).
    "If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve

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    Back then is back then. FF to 2020, 97, 94 so far + 7th WDC ! The races are great. We had Seb on the podium! Charles is giving his best with what Ferrari has for him . Today's fans are lucky to be witnessing a GOAT in Lewis and his car! Just look at how F-1 fans still talk about the old broken records with pride. Wins and poles in the 100 s was unimaginable to fans back then. even an 8th WDC may happen. Those numbers are ridiculo! Charles at his age has a shot at meeting those numbers and hopefully it will be with Ferrari the GTOAT ! Fans need Max back at his best to give Lewis the competition no one else seems to give him for now. Ferrari podiums are on the way!! F-1 Ferrari fans and F-1 fans in general watching which drivers in the top 10 and having favorites coming up is not trolling.
    Last edited by Brembo; 21st November 2020 at 09:57.

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    Repetition, repetition, repetition..... Anything new...??!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    Fans need Max back at his best to give Lewis the competition no one else seems to give him for now.
    Yes, you are right, there is no competition, he has to beat Bottas, and thats it.

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