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Thread: SF21 Challenger Thread

  1. #781
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toothlessrage* View Post
    If they manage a win this season, tears of joy will flow.
    i think they can, perhaps even on merit in Mexico.

    Imagine what it would do for the morale of the team.

  2. #782
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    Ferrari will fight for the win in Austin.

  3. #783
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    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    Ferrari will fight for the win in Austin.
    When pigs fly...
    Hero's come and go, but legends never die!

  4. #784
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilverSpeed View Post
    When pigs fly...
    Yeah, I'll see it when I believe it. I'm not jumping on this "upgrade" Ferrari has currently. COTA will either put doubts in my head of where Ferrari stands on the upgrade or it will be a "rinse and repeat" thought process.

    We'll see how 2022 stands after 4 or 5 races. I'm not holding my breath....I tend to do that after 15 years of Ferrari not winning a season.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  5. #785
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    Binotto think that they will be competitive in Mexico. In Austin? Really don't know, the new mecedes engine, upgraded for reliability (630 gr heavier ?) seems to be so powerfull whit its angry maping... (Horner cries that is cheating)
    Last edited by Gilles; 15th October 2021 at 21:56.

  6. #786
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilles View Post
    Binotto think that they will be competitive in Mexico. In Austin? Really don't know, the new mecedes engine, upgraded for reliability (630 gr heavier ?) seems to be so powerfull whit its angry maping... (Horner cries that is cheating)

    Red Bull and Ferrari asked for clarification. I guess its not a mode thing, it's apparently Mercedes faking the sensor readings by having sensors in a part of the plenum to read a different temperature. It's a similar idea to how Ferrari had different fuel flow going into the engine, but was within the rules of fuel flow at the FIA's sensors. Unfortunately Ferrari had their entire PU disassembled and scrutinized by the FIA, while they didn't even bother to look at the Mercedes.

  7. #787
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    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    Ferrari will fight for the win in Austin.
    i can see a podium in Austin on merit. And a win in Mexico. I may even put money on Mexico.

  8. #788
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS454 View Post
    Red Bull and Ferrari asked for clarification. I guess its not a mode thing, it's apparently Mercedes faking the sensor readings by having sensors in a part of the plenum to read a different temperature. It's a similar idea to how Ferrari had different fuel flow going into the engine, but was within the rules of fuel flow at the FIA's sensors. Unfortunately Ferrari had their entire PU disassembled and scrutinized by the FIA, while they didn't even bother to look at the Mercedes.
    I know the plenum story, agree with you. This time, it's about the 4th ice, whit delivers power that Honda can't fight. The block or/and the heads have been reinforced to prevent cracks (the ICE would be heavier now, by 0.62 kg). Wolf explain they now can use superior mapping (I think the one that allowed Ham to catch up with Leclerc in Britain). Where is the line between reliability and cheating? The Fia does not think that is cheating (what a surprise!), but for RedBull, it's hard to accept.
    Also, i read that in 2019, the Fia had a meeting with Mercedes about Ferrari's ICE ,without inviting any scuderia member. I would be not surprised if they had learned something about this engine, and knowing developing an engine concept takes 2 years, it's not impossible that some of their evolutions right now are inspired by some of their learnings (who knows?)
    So if the SF21 is performing better now, Ferrari is only improving it to allow for some lessons for next season, and ahead of them two teams are at war to win the 2021 WDC. You would think SF is putting eggs in 2022 cars while others have to develop their 2021 cars until the end of the season, but I don't expect any benefit.
    So, the chances of winning SF21 this season therefore remain very low.
    But personally, I still hope, and at the very least, I want to see Leclerc in a working SF21. He's so spectacular! (some others are spectacular too, but not or not more in red, like Alonso)
    Last edited by Gilles; 16th October 2021 at 16:37.

  9. #789
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    New livery for a tribute to Kimi? USA saw his last win, no?

    https://mobile.twitter.com/ScuderiaF...48449%3Fs%3D20

  10. #790
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilles View Post
    Binotto think that they will be competitive in Mexico. In Austin? Really don't know, the new mecedes engine, upgraded for reliability (630 gr heavier ?) seems to be so powerfull whit its angry maping... (Horner cries that is cheating)
    ah for reliablilty i'm sure.

    kinda like how when the v8s came out in 2007, Ferrari was the best, certainly faster than Renault, then 2010 rolls around, and the Renault is just as good,despite there being an engine freeze.

    that's why i like that Ferrari is playing the same game now, the 2022 Zimmerman engine is supposed to be all about performance over reliability. And as they should. If they're going to allow a reliability loophole, I'd like to be the team that exploits it.

  11. #791
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilles View Post
    New livery for a tribute to Kimi? USA saw his last win, no?

    https://mobile.twitter.com/ScuderiaF...48449%3Fs%3D20
    I was wrong :https://mobile.twitter.com/ScuderiaF...0%2Fframe.html

  12. #792
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilles View Post
    I know the plenum story, agree with you. This time, it's about the 4th ice, whit delivers power that Honda can't fight. The block or/and the heads have been reinforced to prevent cracks (the ICE would be heavier now, by 0.62 kg). Wolf explain they now can use superior mapping (I think the one that allowed Ham to catch up with Leclerc in Britain). Where is the line between reliability and cheating? The Fia does not think that is cheating (what a surprise!), but for RedBull, it's hard to accept.
    Also, i read that in 2019, the Fia had a meeting with Mercedes about Ferrari's ICE ,without inviting any scuderia member. I would be not surprised if they had learned something about this engine, and knowing developing an engine concept takes 2 years, it's not impossible that some of their evolutions right now are inspired by some of their learnings (who knows?)
    So if the SF21 is performing better now, Ferrari is only improving it to allow for some lessons for next season, and ahead of them two teams are at war to win the 2021 WDC. You would think SF is putting eggs in 2022 cars while others have to develop their 2021 cars until the end of the season, but I don't expect any benefit.
    So, the chances of winning SF21 this season therefore remain very low.
    But personally, I still hope, and at the very least, I want to see Leclerc in a working SF21. He's so spectacular! (some others are spectacular too, but not or not more in red, like Alonso)
    Thanks. I wasn't aware the 4th engine had modifications. I seriously fear that Mercedes is about to dominate the rest of the season. We have seen some of their power advantage in previous races. Imola for example. If they are able or now willing to unleash that performance regularly, Red Bull are doomed.

  13. #793
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilverSpeed View Post
    When pigs fly...
    Overdramatic.

  14. #794
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cavallino View Post
    i can see a podium in Austin on merit. And a win in Mexico. I may even put money on Mexico.
    I don't see any reason for us to be not competitive in Austin. The track layout favor us. Just look at our performance in Silverstone.

    Also the last sector at Austin is quite tricky, it overheats the rear tyre quite a bit, something our car is not susceptible to. SF21 overheats the front tyres sometimes, but it's very good at looking after the rear tyres.

    With the upgraded PU, a car with very good traction and great drivers, I don't see any reason for us to be pessimistic about our chances at Austin.

  15. #795
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    [QUOTE=tifosi1993;1048993

    With the upgraded PU, a car with very good traction and great drivers, I don't see any reason for us to be pessimistic about our chances at Austin.[/QUOTE]

    Or pessimistic for the rest of the races! Ferrari looks as competitive as the other 3 up front teams. Being allowed to race each other is whats making Charles and Carlos so strong against the rest.

  16. #796
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    I'm still being cautious in my optimism. The most promising thing is we are now ahead of McLaren and if any of the teams faulter infront we will be there to capitalise which is all you can ask considering where we started the season.

  17. #797
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    Quote Originally Posted by patrese86 View Post
    I'm still being cautious in my optimism. The most promising thing is we are now ahead of McLaren and if any of the teams faulter infront we will be there to capitalise which is all you can ask considering where we started the season.
    I agree
    In addition, the last wet race did not give a clear picture of the hierarchy of powers (Leclerc was fast even on Friday with the "old" PU specification). If the conditions are dry, Austin could show us where Mercedes and Ferrari stand (have no doubt about Mercedes)
    I would add that the figth between Merc and Honda improves their cars, making Perez and Bottas even faster podium contenders.
    I'm not saying we'll be disappointed, but I agree with your caution, hoping for the best anyway
    Last edited by Gilles; 17th October 2021 at 19:20.

  18. #798
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    Sunny race forcasted this time, will see

  19. #799
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    Ferrari: solutions 2022 are tested in Austin
    The Scuderia's simulations for the United States GP indicate that the Austin race should also confirm the positive trend seen in Turkey. The two drivers, without penalties, will be able to show, hopefully in a dry GP, the true potential of the new hybrid. The Maranello team is continuing to experiment with parts of the 2022 engine by introducing pumps and other lightened accessories that will go on the "Superfast".
    Mattia Binotto, analyzing the next races of Ferrari, put the ... red stamp on the Mexican GP, ​​considering the high altitude event the most favorable to the characteristics of the SF21.
    The team principal had not yet seen the responses of the simulations of the United States GP: according to rumors, the data that emerged from the work on the simulator indicate a Ferrari capable of making a good impression again after the positive indications that emerged from Istanbul.
    Charles Leclerc and Carlos Sainz, free from penalties for having mounted the power unit 4 equipped with the new hybrid system, can show, hopefully in an event not affected by the rain, the full potential of the 065/6 EVO to conquer those points useful to fill the 7.5 points that separate the Cavallino team from McLaren, in the battle for third place in the Constructors' World Championship.
    The Scuderia did not go to Texas with the ambition of repeating the success of Kimi Raikkonen in 2018 with the SF71H, but the intention is to continue the work of approaching the 2022 season that will have to bring Ferrari back among the protagonists of the world championship fight.
    Carlos Sainz in the exclusive interview granted to Motorsport.com made no secret of it: “I am sure that in Ferrari we have done an incredible job in recent years with the aim of building a winning team. As I said, I don't know if 2022 will be the right year, but for sure it's the first chance to try. "
    And, therefore, in addition to looking for the results that allow the Cavallino to hit the goal of the season, there is also a commitment to try everything on the SF21 that can be transferred to the 2022 single-seater in compliance with the regulations.
    It is true that the power unit is frozen in the developments of the parts clearly defined by the FIA, but, just to give an example, there are accessories that do not fit into the blocked components such as oil or petrol pumps and can be freely replaced.
    In Austin, solutions will be used that foreshadow the endothermic unit of 2022: lighter pumps will be used that will have to pass the reliability screen, in order to ensure from now to the end of the season of the duration tests in the car that will allow to homologate a “Superfast” power unit with fewer unknowns on duration, given that Wolf Zimmermann's project promises to be with some innovative concepts.
    In short, Ferrari looks to the last part of the season with an optimistic gaze, in the hope of starting to reap the benefits of a long, often obscure work, which already anticipates some technical contents that will have to drive the actual expected relaunch. next year…
    FERRARI FOR EVER !!!!!!!

  20. #800
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    At the US GP, Ferrari will be running a new fuel pump. It's for 2022 and much lighter than the 2021 iteration. The goal is to test it on track, just like the energy components.

  21. #801
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    From AMuS Maranello has improved the efficiency of its power unit. To do this, the electrical voltage was increased from 400 to 800 volts - as was already the case with Mercedes, Honda and Renault.
    The engineers then had to adapt practically every part of the hybrid system. The battery. The electrical machines - MGU-K and MGU-H - as well as the control electronics.
    No PU goes into charging mode later at the end of the straight than the Ferrari PU. The electric power lasts longer. PU also pushes harder when accelerating out of the straight. According to the calculations of the other manufacturers, the improvement is in the tenths range
    FERRARI FOR EVER !!!!!!!

  22. #802
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    Quote Originally Posted by PURE PASSION View Post
    From AMuS Maranello has improved the efficiency of its power unit. To do this, the electrical voltage was increased from 400 to 800 volts - as was already the case with Mercedes, Honda and Renault.
    The engineers then had to adapt practically every part of the hybrid system. The battery. The electrical machines - MGU-K and MGU-H - as well as the control electronics.
    No PU goes into charging mode later at the end of the straight than the Ferrari PU. The electric power lasts longer. PU also pushes harder when accelerating out of the straight. According to the calculations of the other manufacturers, the improvement is in the tenths range
    It all sounds great on the paper. It remains to be seen in following days.
    In the meantime this is my small collection

    Attachment 7850

  23. #803
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    Quote Originally Posted by PURE PASSION View Post
    From AMuS Maranello has improved the efficiency of its power unit. To do this, the electrical voltage was increased from 400 to 800 volts - as was already the case with Mercedes, Honda and Renault.
    The engineers then had to adapt practically every part of the hybrid system. The battery. The electrical machines - MGU-K and MGU-H - as well as the control electronics.
    No PU goes into charging mode later at the end of the straight than the Ferrari PU. The electric power lasts longer. PU also pushes harder when accelerating out of the straight. According to the calculations of the other manufacturers, the improvement is in the tenths range
    So all info about what improvements we have made is in public domain while our competitors adapt and make further improvements to become more competitive than Ferrari.

  24. #804
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    Quote Originally Posted by 20000rpm View Post
    So all info about what improvements we have made is in public domain while our competitors adapt and make further improvements to become more competitive than Ferrari.
    Exactly....why do we have to open up our big mouth and tell every detail as to how it all works??.
    I never understood

    Just keep it a secret for feck sakes

  25. #805
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    Quote Originally Posted by FerrariF60 View Post
    Exactly....why do we have to open up our big mouth and tell every detail as to how it all works??.
    I never understood

    Just keep it a secret for feck sakes
    EXACTLY! It's nobody's business but Ferrari and while rivals and fans are curious simply "We're making progress" would suffice
    from a tctical standpoint - details only after the season;s ended maybe makes better sense?

  26. #806
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    Quote Originally Posted by 20000rpm View Post
    So all info about what improvements we have made is in public domain while our competitors adapt and make further improvements to become more competitive than Ferrari.
    Quote Originally Posted by FerrariF60 View Post
    Exactly....why do we have to open up our big mouth and tell every detail as to how it all works??.
    I never understood

    Just keep it a secret for feck sakes
    This is AMuS 's quotes not Ferrari's.
    And the only thing they actually say is that we have made changes to the electrical system and the biggest change that we have doubled the voltage. This is no secret to the public.
    Technical "secrets " always pop up to the media for all teams.
    This time the team is acting like every other team and just making their efforts quietly to become competitive again.
    To me the whole picture for the last 2 years is exactly that.
    The team (especially Binotto ) had received a lot of really bad criticism from media- fans , from the bad outcome of last years season with all the story about our "illegal " engine. To me it's like he actually has -had a plan and that is 2022. The team under that criticism over a year now ,keep working hard to deliver a championship winning car in 22.
    If we actually succeed it waits to be seen !!!!!
    FERRARI FOR EVER !!!!!!!

  27. #807
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    Quote Originally Posted by PURE PASSION View Post
    This is AMuS 's quotes not Ferrari's.
    And the only thing they actually say is that we have made changes to the electrical system and the biggest change that we have doubled the voltage. This is no secret to the public.
    Technical "secrets " always pop up to the media for all teams.
    This time the team is acting like every other team and just making their efforts quietly to become competitive again.
    To me the whole picture for the last 2 years is exactly that.
    The team (especially Binotto ) had received a lot of really bad criticism from media- fans , from the bad outcome of last years season with all the story about our "illegal " engine. To me it's like he actually has -had a plan and that is 2022. The team under that criticism over a year now ,keep working hard to deliver a championship winning car in 22.
    If we actually succeed it waits to be seen !!!!!
    100% agree with you
    Also, some of their "secret" could be how they use the electric power and they could have been strong on that side even with the previous specification. Controls seem to be important, but I'm no specialist
    Also agree that regarding to certain indiscretions, like on the "super fast" engine, it comes from people who have already announced false things : we all want this kind of news, so we have
    Last edited by Gilles; 22nd October 2021 at 18:37.

  28. #808
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    #AMuS "No PU goes into charging mode later at the end of the straight than the Ferrari PU. The electric power lasts longer. PU also pushes harder when accelerating out of the straight. According to the calculations of the other manufacturers, the improvement is in the tenths range"
    Last edited by Gilles; 23rd October 2021 at 17:40.

  29. #809
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    Quote Originally Posted by PURE PASSION View Post
    This is AMuS 's quotes not Ferrari's.
    And the only thing they actually say is that we have made changes to the electrical system and the biggest change that we have doubled the voltage. This is no secret to the public.
    Technical "secrets " always pop up to the media for all teams.
    This time the team is acting like every other team and just making their efforts quietly to become competitive again.
    To me the whole picture for the last 2 years is exactly that.
    The team (especially Binotto ) had received a lot of really bad criticism from media- fans , from the bad outcome of last years season with all the story about our "illegal " engine. To me it's like he actually has -had a plan and that is 2022. The team under that criticism over a year now ,keep working hard to deliver a championship winning car in 22.
    If we actually succeed it waits to be seen !!!!!
    Fine with specifics not coming from Ferrari, but then why does even Ferrari has to tell the media/third-party sources about any updates. I have never seen or heard any press conference or outlets wherein Mercs or Honda mention anything about the updates. It is only when people compare the performance does all the upgrade thing comes into the picture. IMO, our rivals play smart... Don't speak about any update, let the performance boost speak for itself.

  30. #810
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    Quote Originally Posted by 20000rpm View Post
    Fine with specifics not coming from Ferrari, but then why does even Ferrari has to tell the media/third-party sources about any updates. I have never seen or heard any press conference or outlets wherein Mercs or Honda mention anything about the updates. It is only when people compare the performance does all the upgrade thing comes into the picture. IMO, our rivals play smart... Don't speak about any update, let the performance boost speak for itself.
    Honda recently communicated on its new ES I believe. But yes, a lot of fans, media on the prowl, a 'talkative' Scuderia as we could be in the south of Europe (me included), perhaps explain a little

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