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Thread: 2021 F1 news/rumours

  1. #931
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    Quote Originally Posted by ntukza View Post
    This is the kind of arrogance that often precedes a downfall. The more Ferrari think they don't have to do anything because they are icons, the more certain they are to lose their iconic throne. This is a well documented trend in business. Many mega companies have all but disappeared because they rested on the strength of their past while their opponents seized the present and future. Keep boasting about Ferrari being the most successful team. One day you'll wake up to a new most successful team and Ferrari will be a Williams of that day. I seriously hope the important people at Ferrari don't have the same attitude as you.
    I second that. Even if it's unlikely that Ferrari fold, their status could dwindle along with their success. The ingredients for a disaster are already waiting to get mixed together.

    Ferrari have had by far the largest financial benefits from F1, a budget as big as anyone, and that hasn't translated to a winning car. Now a budget cap is in place, so they can't just throw money around.
    Ferrari have had the best drivers. Alonso always gets the maximum out of any car, Vettel was a 4x champion caliper driver. Leclerc could easily be top 3 on the current grid. Can't win without a good enough car. Drivers want to drive for Ferrari, but they will want to drive for winning teams more.
    With tighter budgets and stricter rules, what's to stop a team like McLaren, Aston Martin, or Alpine from overtaking Ferrari?
    The power of the internet and social media is so big that people are constantly looking for the next quick exciting thing to be entertained. With other teams providing more off track entertainment and if these teams become consistently more successful, in 10-20 years, who's going to be around to care about the Ferrari legacy? How do you sell a kid new to F1 to be a Ferrari fan in 2035 if other teams are offering more engagement and are actually winning races. Do you think telling them about how Ferrari were great in the early 2000s is going to matter to him/her?

  2. #932
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    Also nothing to stop Ferrari thriving in the budget cap and winning titles.....and with no need to remake F1 cars in the snow video's either

    But you have already decided they won't win anything till 2035 at least

    Go back to Red Bull's youtube and enjoy yourself.
    Forza Ferrari

  3. #933
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    Also nothing to stop Ferrari thriving in the budget cap and winning titles.....and with no need to remake F1 cars in the snow video's either

    But you have already decided they won't win anything till 2035 at least

    Go back to Red Bull's youtube and enjoy yourself.
    You really like to avoid all sense of comprehension to stir the pot don't you?

    You can laugh about Red Bull's fun content they make all you want. Meanwhile they are battling for the championship and Ferrari isn't.

  4. #934
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS454 View Post
    You really like to avoid all sense of comprehension to stir the pot don't you?

    You can laugh about Red Bull's fun content they make all you want. Meanwhile they are battling for the championship and Ferrari isn't.
    They are not fighting for the title due to youtube videos though......but as said why would the budget cap mean Ferrari won't win titles?

    You make it sound like Red Bull have never had years when they are not fighting for the title either...well sorry but they have no matter how fun their social media is.....
    Forza Ferrari

  5. #935
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    They are not fighting for the title due to youtube videos though......but as said why would the budget cap mean Ferrari won't win titles?

    You make it sound like Red Bull have never had years when they are not fighting for the title either...well sorry but they have no matter how fun their social media is.....
    Keeping going down the path of the unable to comprehend. Its getting old having to explain the obvious.

    Its unfortunate if you don't understand that big budget gives an advantage to becoming successful. You can go back decades and see the teams that won the WCC have had among the biggest budgets. Ferrari has always been one of these teams, if not the biggest budget considering they get money just for showing up. The percentages have favored Ferrari for who knows how many years. Despite their huge budget, they struggle to build a team that is capable of winning championships, even races. So with a budget cap in place, it is logical to assume it will be more difficult to build the necessary team since they can't throw money at people to join Ferrari. The emblem on the side of the car won't magically make the car win either.

    As for Red Bull, give them credit. After buying Jaguar, a junk team, in just 5 years they became the fastest car by mid 2009 and went onto win 4 straight championships. Not too shabby. How about Mercedes? Buys Brawn GP which had no development into 2010, then in just 4 years starts the most dominant era in F1 history.

    You can make the claim that any team in F1 has a shot at the championship from 2022 onward given the same budget, but you'd be a fool to bet against the winners of recent years. Ferrari hopefully will be up there winning races and making a charge at the championships, but if their mentality is that of some fans, where they can slack off and expect success because of their name and history, then Ferrari are setting themselves up to fail. And eventually a losing team will detract fans and sponsors. And the point of being lifeless in social media means eventually people will lose interest in Ferrari.

    As i said, all the ingredients to fail are on the table. Ferrari is such a stubborn team that it takes them way too long to adapt.

    It's one of Enzo's famous quotes. ''Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines'' Too bad he didn't accept how important aerodynamics were earlier. Now Ferrari's engine's are the joke of the F1 grid, while Honda who once couldn't build an engine to get out of their own way, have adapted and built an engine that is likely 2nd best on the grid.

  6. #936
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    Merc, Red Bull, Renault etc have finances and resources that dwarf Ferrari, you seem to think otherwise? You highlight Merc and Red Bull coming in and winning quickly but you think this is not because they have big budgets and money to throw around for people to join them? No they are winning because their social media is fun right.....hopefully you wake up and realise what Ferrari have been up against to remain one of the top teams in the sport for so long is not something they should be ashamed about.

    Budget cap will probably help Ferrari rather than hinder that is why Ferrari are all for the cap, but you know already come 2035 they have won nothing and people forget about them. Enzo is not running Ferrari now so bringing up that quote as if it somehow related to Ferrari today is rather pathetic.

    Best you just support Red Bull already and save yourself the time....clearly Ferrari are not the fun team for you.
    Forza Ferrari

  7. #937
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    Merc, Red Bull, Renault etc have finances and resources that dwarf Ferrari, you seem to think otherwise? You highlight Merc and Red Bull coming in and winning quickly but you think this is not because they have big budgets and money to throw around for people to join them? No they are winning because their social media is fun right.....hopefully you wake up and realise what Ferrari have been up against to remain one of the top teams in the sport for so long is not something they should be ashamed about.

    Budget cap will probably help Ferrari rather than hinder that is why Ferrari are all for the cap, but you know already come 2035 they have won nothing and people forget about them. Enzo is not running Ferrari now so bringing up that quote as if it somehow related to Ferrari today is rather pathetic.

    Best you just support Red Bull already and save yourself the time....clearly Ferrari are not the fun team for you.
    Red Bull, Mercedes, and Renault's corporation finances don't 100% go to their Formula 1 program. Neither does all of Ferrari's goes to their F1 program. I can't believe I would have to state something so obvious. Do I need to talk about auto manufacturing having different parent companies or partial ownerships with other auto manufacturers?

    In your attempt to debate me, you just stated what I've said. Big budgets matter, which is an enormous part of why Red Bull and Mercedes became successful in a short period of time. Ferrari carry these same budgets. I remember in the late 90s, early 2000s, there was rumors of Ferrari's budget being between 350 and 400 million dollars per year.

    What do you mean what Ferrari have been up against? You are on the side of Ferrari can sit on their butts and don't have to do anything because Ferrari is an icon.

    Not sure what basis supports a budget cap helps Ferrari. It should help the smaller teams and potentially hurt the bigger teams. Fortunately for Mercedes and Red Bull, they already have an infrastructure in place that wins races. Ferrari is clearly behind and can't use money to bring in better people to innovate. Hopefully the return of Rory Byrne makes a difference. Since his return, the Ferrari chassis certainly hasn't gotten any worse, even if he's supposed to be primarily working on the 2022 car.

    For over 10 years the common theme while Ferrari struggled has been fire the boss. Pretty much every week someone says it's time to get rid of Binotto. How him being replaced suddenly designs a better engine, a lighter chassis, and better aerodynamics, who knows. But somehow that's an acceptable opinion. But to say one hopes Ferrari doesn't have the loser mentality to coast on the success from the past is crazy. Ferrari is a stubborn company, it is not a known secret, and given how that tradition has continued since Enzo ran the company I think makes his quote relevant to this day.

    Let's demand change, expect results, and ridicule Ferrari in their failures.... but lets not have an honest discussion about why they aren't winning and what problems Ferrari has.

  8. #938
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    We are not in the early 2000's anymore it's as relevant as your Enzo quote.....

    Tell you what just for fun, remove the MS era from Ferrari's history, consider it a bit of a blip and you might see the true way Ferrari has been in F1 since the beginning, not very successful yet here today still the biggest team, even if they don't make funny social media videos.

    Someone saying on a forum to fire the boss does not make Ferrari fire the boss.....Ferrari is not a stubborn company otherwise they would have used their veto much more, so not sure where you are plucking that from.

    I am away to watch a Red Bull in the snow, now that is what F1 is all about....
    Forza Ferrari

  9. #939
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    We are not in the early 2000's anymore it's as relevant as your Enzo quote.....

    Tell you what just for fun, remove the MS era from Ferrari's history, consider it a bit of a blip and you might see the true way Ferrari has been in F1 since the beginning, not very successful yet here today still the biggest team, even if they don't make funny social media videos.

    Someone saying on a forum to fire the boss does not make Ferrari fire the boss.....Ferrari is not a stubborn company otherwise they would have used their veto much more, so not sure where you are plucking that from.

    I am away to watch a Red Bull in the snow, now that is what F1 is all about....
    Keeping bring up how I think driving an F1 car up a snow covered mountain is more exciting than cooking pasta. Because I am right, it is. Though, perhaps F1 isn't for you if you feel the other way.

  10. #940
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS454 View Post
    Keeping bring up how I think driving an F1 car up a snow covered mountain is more exciting than cooking pasta. Because I am right, it is. Though, perhaps F1 isn't for you if you feel the other way.
    Yeah perhaps not, afterall I seen Ferrari do that long before Red Bull where a glimmer in your eye....

    You fall for the Red Bull marketing all you want, I will remain a Ferrari fan if it's ok with you regardless if they are winning or losing.
    Forza Ferrari

  11. #941
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    What Ferrari is and remains is the uninterrupted line from Alberto Ascari to Charles Leclerc. That it's the one team truly representing a country where it actually is based in. The one team which colour would never change. The one team that owns two race tracks. The one team whose name is synonymous with 'fast cars'.

    The continual line of Ascari-Fangio-Brooks-Hawthorn-Hill-Surtees-Ickx-Lauda-Scheckter-Villeneuve-Arnoux-Alboreto-Berger-Mansell-Prost-Alesi-Schumacher-Räikkönen-Alonso-Vettel-Leclerc as the lead guys starting a year as either the informal or selected Ferrari #1 is vastly longer than what anyone else can even dream about having. Doesn't matter if a few of them weren't up to it. They were still the chosen ones. If you can't win the title, being Ferrari's lead driver is F1's second best job. It's like taking up the relay stick and carrying it along. Sure, there are some names missing there but Ferrari passed up on chances to sign Senna and Hamilton either way. It's not like they didn't have the opportunity.

    It's true that without the Schumacher era it would've been vastly different today. At the same time, that particular era saw sports interest hit its peak. Just like Real Madrid can coast along Zidane, Beckham and the two Ronaldos for a good while so can Ferrari off Schumacher. The only dynasty with a similar magic to it remaining is Michael Jordan with the Chicago Bulls. It just changed both sports for good.
    Last edited by Tifoso Svedese; 20th September 2021 at 16:32.

  12. #942
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    Without the Hamilton era, Mercedes is just an ordinary team. Without the Senna-Prost era, Mclaren is just an ordinary team. Without the Newey era, Williams is just an ordinary team. Without the EBD era, Red Bull is just an ordinary team etc etc.

    So take every F1 team's successful period away and Ferrari will still dwarf them and will remain the most successful team. So it's pretty much a pointless discussion.

    F1, like any other sports, goes through a cycle. And each cycle has it's own winners-losers. This cycle is all about Mercedes, just like 1999-2008 was of Ferrari's. Ferrari's time will come again.
    Last edited by tifosi1993; 20th September 2021 at 17:01.

  13. #943
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    Neither McLaren nor Williams ever had the same magic though. It's vastly different. Frank saw his drivers as commodities and paid them relative peanuts compared to their market value, whereas Ron + Whitmarsh alienated every single driver had who couldn't wait to get out. Senna tried to leave twice before Williams eventually came along. Nevermind Prost departing at the peak of his powers, Häkkinen decided to retire at 33, Monty when to do NASCAR mid-season, Kimi signed for Ferrari 1.5 years before, Alonso left in a fit of rage and Hamilton got annoyed at being low-balled and left.

    Meanwhile, even as Alonso wanted out, Ferrari chose to release him because they had found a replacement. It is yet to happen that a driver has left Ferrari for anything other than retirement after an expiring contract with the team desperate to re-sign him.

    Mercedes is a PR nightmare with their cringey activism that turns off more people than it attracts. I'd venture most of their and Hammy's instagram followers never watch a race and are just far-left political activists or celebrity gossipers paying zero damn attention to anything going on. The day he walks away, Mercedes are just any other team on the grid from a marketing perspective but also carrying a very negative baggage with many people for the cringe going on for multiple years.

  14. #944
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    Yeah perhaps not, afterall I seen Ferrari do that long before Red Bull where a glimmer in your eye....

    You fall for the Red Bull marketing all you want, I will remain a Ferrari fan if it's ok with you regardless if they are winning or losing.
    So now Ferrari have driven their F1 cars in the snow before? And now it's cool? Uh, okay.

  15. #945
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS454 View Post
    So now Ferrari have driven their F1 cars in the snow before? And now it's cool? Uh, okay.
    Yeah long ago, never said it was cool or made it feel like they had more passion.....what's Red Bull and Mercedes done to ignite your passion this week?

    Schumi v Eurofighter jet was pretty cool though, maybe Red Bull should do some stuff like that....
    Forza Ferrari

  16. #946
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tifoso Svedese View Post

    Meanwhile, even as Alonso wanted out, Ferrari chose to release him because they had found a replacement. It is yet to happen that a driver has left Ferrari for anything other than retirement after an expiring contract with the team desperate to re-sign him.
    Ferrari have had their own friction with drivers too. A lot of drivers want to join Ferrari, and then it doesn't go as nicely as they hoped. Not sure what you mean by no driver has left Ferrari unless it was for retirement. Vettel - that was a messy break up. Alonso - apparently him and Ferrari weren't on great terms in the end. Kimi - underperformed in 08 and 09, then he got the boot and Alonso was in. Massa and Barrichello have both spoken out about the favoritism that happens inside the team. There are rumors that Schumacher got pushed out because Kimi was coming for 07. Now there are rumors of Leclerc being unhappy.

    Of course we don't know the true details and conversations that happen behind closed doors. Teams, especially Ferrari are very private what happens behind closed doors and their PR teams make up BS of what drivers are to tell the media. This happens all over the political conglomerate that is Formula 1.

    Mercedes, not sure I'd call it a PR nightmare for the drivers. Hamilton gets to do anything he wants and Mercedes for some reason allows it. Far far more than I've seen any driver be allowed to do. Rosberg got an equal car against their golden boy Lewis. Bottas even gets a pretty equal car, they just shaft his strategy to help Hamilton because he's a clear #2 driver. Just as Massa got shafted against Alonso. They certainly treated Schumacher well.

    Every team have moments in history of less than perfect driver-team relationships. Some worse than others as you pointed out.

  17. #947
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    Yeah long ago, never said it was cool or made it feel like they had more passion.....what's Red Bull and Mercedes done to ignite your passion this week?

    Schumi v Eurofighter jet was pretty cool though, maybe Red Bull should do some stuff like that....
    The F2003-GA vs the Eurofighter was cool. It's a shame the coverage on that was sub par. But the internet isn't like it is today. When Red Bull did it, they had the advantage of better technology.

    When did Ferrari ever drive their F1 car up a snowy mountain?

    Well now that you asked, Red Bull recently brought out an older V8 F1 car and drag raced it against a lot of production and modified street cars, even a superbike. I love these kind of stunts that showcase the performance of an F1 car.

  18. #948
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    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    Without the Hamilton era, Mercedes is just an ordinary team. Without the Senna-Prost era, Mclaren is just an ordinary team. Without the Newey era, Williams is just an ordinary team. Without the EBD era, Red Bull is just an ordinary team etc etc.

    So take every F1 team's successful period away and Ferrari will still dwarf them and will remain the most successful team. So it's pretty much a pointless discussion.

    F1, like any other sports, goes through a cycle. And each cycle has it's own winners-losers. This cycle is all about Mercedes, just like 1999-2008 was of Ferrari's. Ferrari's time will come again.
    With regards to the turbo-hybrid era, there was no parity amoungst the competition of the likes of the token system and engine freezes. Yes, Mercedes built a "better mouse trap" but others were "hampered" from competing.

    And to put the final nail in the coffin, this turbo hybrid era that we are currently on is being "dumbed down" hence in 2026 they are getting rid of the MGU-H as well as other competitors will join F1.

    This turbo hybrid era was a waste of time and money......lots of money and insured Mercedes dominance while the competition had one hand tied behind their back.
    Last edited by jgonzalesm6; 20th September 2021 at 20:25.
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  19. #949
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS454 View Post
    The F2003-GA vs the Eurofighter was cool. It's a shame the coverage on that was sub par. But the internet isn't like it is today. When Red Bull did it, they had the advantage of better technology.

    When did Ferrari ever drive their F1 car up a snowy mountain?

    Well now that you asked, Red Bull recently brought out an older V8 F1 car and drag raced it against a lot of production and modified street cars, even a superbike. I love these kind of stunts that showcase the performance of an F1 car.
    What I fiind puzzling about the RedBull videos, and there's lots of them, is that RedBull uses the RB7(naturally aspirated V-8) to promote their brand as well as F1 at their own expense. The puzzling part is that someone hears the RB7 and thinks "Man, that's loud and cool" only to find out that current F1 cars don't really sound that loud or come close to it.

    Love RedBull's marketing team of how they promote the brand and F1 from a global perspective. No other team does this.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  20. #950
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    What I fiind puzzling about the RedBull videos, and there's lots of them, is that RedBull uses the RB7(naturally aspirated V-8) to promote their brand as well as F1 at their own expense. The puzzling part is that someone hears the RB7 and thinks "Man, that's loud and cool" only to find out that current F1 cars don't really sound that loud or come close to it.

    Love RedBull's marketing team of how they promote the brand and F1 from a global perspective. No other team does this.
    I 100% agree! Aside from at the Goodwood Festival of Speed, I haven't seen any team use a turbo hybrid car for their publicity stunts. I wonder if it's because of simply down to the noise, or if it's too complicated and requires too many ppl to run the cars with the hybrid systems. Maybe it's a liability thing with the electrics?

  21. #951
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    Do Red Bull have forums for the cheerleaders to join?
    Forza Ferrari

  22. #952
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS454 View Post
    I love these kind of pr/marketing that showcase the performance of an F1 car.
    Fixed
    Forza Ferrari

  23. #953
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    Fixed
    Dude get over it. Everything in the world is marketing. F1 is one giant commercial just like everything else.

    Sucks to be you if you can't watch good content without going out and buying the product that's stickered all over the car.

  24. #954
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS454 View Post
    Dude get over it. Everything in the world is marketing. F1 is one giant commercial just like everything else.

    Sucks to be you if you can't watch good content without going out and buying the product that's stickered all over the car.
    Enjoy your energy juice
    Forza Ferrari

  25. #955
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    Hello!

    Which outlet would you guys consider as a credible source of F1 news?
    (E.g, Motorsport, Autosport...)

  26. #956
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS454 View Post
    Ferrari have had their own friction with drivers too. A lot of drivers want to join Ferrari, and then it doesn't go as nicely as they hoped. Not sure what you mean by no driver has left Ferrari unless it was for retirement. Vettel - that was a messy break up. Alonso - apparently him and Ferrari weren't on great terms in the end. Kimi - underperformed in 08 and 09, then he got the boot and Alonso was in. Massa and Barrichello have both spoken out about the favoritism that happens inside the team. There are rumors that Schumacher got pushed out because Kimi was coming for 07. Now there are rumors of Leclerc being unhappy.

    Of course we don't know the true details and conversations that happen behind closed doors. Teams, especially Ferrari are very private what happens behind closed doors and their PR teams make up BS of what drivers are to tell the media. This happens all over the political conglomerate that is Formula 1.

    Mercedes, not sure I'd call it a PR nightmare for the drivers. Hamilton gets to do anything he wants and Mercedes for some reason allows it. Far far more than I've seen any driver be allowed to do. Rosberg got an equal car against their golden boy Lewis. Bottas even gets a pretty equal car, they just shaft his strategy to help Hamilton because he's a clear #2 driver. Just as Massa got shafted against Alonso. They certainly treated Schumacher well.

    Every team have moments in history of less than perfect driver-team relationships. Some worse than others as you pointed out.
    Seriously? From where?

    Next year should be a clean slate for all teams at least.

  27. #957
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPZ View Post
    Seriously? From where?

    Next year should be a clean slate for all teams at least.
    It was recently posted in another thread. Supposedly Leclerc got in an argument with Binotto over the team choosing to put more effort into designing the car to Carlos' liking. Who knows if it's true though.

  28. #958
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toothlessrage* View Post
    Hello!

    Which outlet would you guys consider as a credible source of F1 news?
    (E.g, Motorsport, Autosport...)
    In German :

    https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/formel-1/

    https://www.motorsport-total.com/


    In English :

    https://www.motorsport.com/

    https://www.f1technical.net/forum/se...=active_topics

    https://www.newsnow.co.uk/h/Sport/F1/Ferrari

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    Ferrari updates its engine, Leclerc penalized

    Scuderia Ferrari will bring an update to its turbo hybrid V6 engine at the Russian Grand Prix. The new power unit will be mounted on Charles Leclerc's single-seater, which will push the Monegasque to start from the back of the grid.

    In a few days, the fifteenth Grand Prix weekend of the year will kick off in Russia. Even though the season is coming to an end, the teams continue to make improvements on the single-seaters, Ferrari is proving it by releasing a new hybrid system on the Sochi circuit.

    As the Prancing Horse said in a press release, the SF21 engine update will "gain experience for the 2022 car project" . But this improvement comes at a price, since it is synonymous with a penalty for Charles Leclerc. The Monegasque, who has been designated by Ferrari as the first driver to receive this improvement, will use a fourth power unit in Sochi and will therefore exceed the limit of three engines defined by F1 regulations. Consequently, Leclerc will be penalized on the starting grid of the Russian Grand Prix.

    The Italian team also indicated that it was waiting to collect the first data on the Leclerc single-seater to confirm the installation of the engine improvement on the SF21 driven by Carlos Sainz.


    ARTICLE:
    https://fr.motorsport.com/f1/news/fe...672686/?nrt=54
    https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/fe...an-gp/6672699/
    Last edited by Toothlessrage*; 22nd September 2021 at 18:17.

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