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Thread: 2021 Azerbaijan Grand Prix - Baku, June 04 - 06

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    Charles Lec 9 pole positions vs Max 4 pole positions
    In what year or years were those poles??? (were they with the debateable illegal engine??)

    For all we know, the end of 2019 and going into 2020 where Ferrari was penalized but actually how far back was Ferrari tricking the fuel flow sensor??? We probably won't know till 15 or 20yrs time.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    In what year or years were those poles??? (were they with the debateable illegal engine??)

    For all we know, the end of 2019 and going into 2020 where Ferrari was penalized but actually how far back was Ferrari tricking the fuel flow sensor??? We probably won't know till 15 or 20yrs time.
    who cares.

    the engine passed the tests at the time, just as Red Bull's wings passed the tests at the time. But they are both illegal according to the spirit of the rules.

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cavallino View Post
    who cares.

    the engine passed the tests at the time, just as Red Bull's wings passed the tests at the time. But they are both illegal according to the spirit of the rules.
    The engine that Ferrari was tricking and to compare the flexi-wings that EVERYONE is using in 2021 are 2 entirely different issues.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    In what year or years were those poles??? (were they with the debateable illegal engine??)

    For all we know, the end of 2019 and going into 2020 where Ferrari was penalized but actually how far back was Ferrari tricking the fuel flow sensor??? We probably won't know till 15 or 20yrs time.
    And? Are you going to ignore Hamilton's 70+ poles for Mercedes because he was driving cars with "debatable" advantages? DAS, oil burning, illegal front suspension that got banned etc etc...
    Are going to ignore Max's race wins and poles because of the "debatable" flexi wings?

    I don't know why you always get so defensive when someone praises Charles over Max. It doesn't matter if Max is your favorite driver. Leclerc has more poles than Max while driving worse cars than Max.

  5. #155
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    the only difference is Ferrari gets a worse punishment. 2 years of mediocrity.

  6. #156
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    CL is an amazing qualifier.
    But if he wants to be a champion, he has to follow LH path. Minimise the mistakes.

  7. #157
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    One of the great strengths of the SF21 is getting the tyres in the right working temperature immediately.

    Seidl: "Ferrari came out of the pits like in Monaco & were immediately fast. That's a sign of how good the car is. It gives the drivers confidence straight away."

    #AMuS
    Ferrari is still missing around 20hp on Mercedes. That‘s the reason why they had to use a small rear wing in order not to be vulnerable on the straights. They are among the fastest on the finishing straight, despite that they don't lose any time in the corners.

    Red Bull Engineers: "Ferrari is the benchmark in the 90-degree corners."

    Especially in the second part of the track with eleven corners, Ferrari play out their advantage. But they are also there in the other two sections.
    FERRARI FOR EVER !!!!!!!

  8. #158
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    Leclerc will become the perfect racer with more experience. He already has the raw speed. And with more experience he will perfect his skills. Alonso of 2010 was far stronger than Alonso of 2003, Hamilton of 2015-2021 is far stronger than Hamilton of 2007-2012. Verstappen debuted in 2015 but still making mistakes.

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by PURE PASSION View Post
    One of the great strengths of the SF21 is getting the tyres in the right working temperature immediately.

    Seidl: "Ferrari came out of the pits like in Monaco & were immediately fast. That's a sign of how good the car is. It gives the drivers confidence straight away."

    #AMuS
    Ferrari is still missing around 20hp on Mercedes. That‘s the reason why they had to use a small rear wing in order not to be vulnerable on the straights. They are among the fastest on the finishing straight, despite that they don't lose any time in the corners.

    Red Bull Engineers: "Ferrari is the benchmark in the 90-degree corners."

    Especially in the second part of the track with eleven corners, Ferrari play out their advantage. But they are also there in the other two sections.
    So maybe if we can manage the tyres, there is a chance... perhaps a few well timed safety cars?

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    And? Are you going to ignore Hamilton's 70+ poles for Mercedes because he was driving cars with "debatable" advantages? DAS, oil burning, illegal front suspension that got banned etc etc...
    Are going to ignore Max's race wins and poles because of the "debatable" flexi wings?

    I don't know why you always get so defensive when someone praises Charles over Max. It doesn't matter if Max is your favorite driver. Leclerc has more poles than Max while driving worse cars than Max.
    DAS was'nt illegal in 2020...it was innovative. Ferrari played with it as well but did'nt introduce it.

    Oil burning ...https://drivetribe.com/p/burning-oil...TnGRQMesA64qNg

    Illegal front suspension???? I'm clueless but if it's the FRIC suspension system, then Mercedes and RedBull ran that suspension for several years until it got banned. There was nothing illegal about the FRIC suspension during operation.

    Flexi-wings.....whether its the front wings flexing or the rear wings flexing....EVERYONE's wings flex due to the loads at speed.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    Leclerc will become the perfect racer with more experience. He already has the raw speed. And with more experience he will perfect his skills. Alonso of 2010 was far stronger than Alonso of 2003, Hamilton of 2015-2021 is far stronger than Hamilton of 2007-2012. Verstappen debuted in 2015 but still making mistakes.
    He absolutely needed to bounce back after Monaco and he absolutely has.

    That's what impresses me the most about him, it seems he learns from every mistake he makes and comes back stronger!

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    DAS was'nt illegal in 2020...it was innovative. Ferrari played with it as well but did'nt introduce it.

    Oil burning ...https://drivetribe.com/p/burning-oil...TnGRQMesA64qNg

    Illegal front suspension???? I'm clueless but if it's the FRIC suspension system, then Mercedes and RedBull ran that suspension for several years until it got banned. There was nothing illegal about the FRIC suspension during operation.

    Flexi-wings.....whether its the front wings flexing or the rear wings flexing....EVERYONE's wings flex due to the loads at speed.
    The flexible wings are illegal according to current regulations. And they have been for quite some time.

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    DAS was'nt illegal in 2020...it was innovative. Ferrari played with it as well but did'nt introduce it.

    Oil burning ...https://drivetribe.com/p/burning-oil...TnGRQMesA64qNg

    Illegal front suspension???? I'm clueless but if it's the FRIC suspension system, then Mercedes and RedBull ran that suspension for several years until it got banned. There was nothing illegal about the FRIC suspension during operation.

    Flexi-wings.....whether its the front wings flexing or the rear wings flexing....EVERYONE's wings flex due to the loads at speed.
    And what was illegal about the Ferrari 2019 engines?

    As I've said, both Mercedes and Red Bull ran with "debatable" devices on their cars that got banned. But you're not downplaying their achievements, yet you're downplaying Leclerc's.

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cavallino View Post
    The flexible wings are illegal according to current regulations. And they have been for quite some time.
    How are flexible wings illegal?? I've seen front wings flex for quite some time buy various teams....over 5 years I believe.

    The FIA along with Mercedes have opened up a can-of-worms with flexible wings. The question is, to what degree are the front and rear wings allowed to flex under load??? 5mm??? 10mm??? 20mm???
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    Leclerc will become the perfect racer with more experience. He already has the raw speed. And with more experience he will perfect his skills. Alonso of 2010 was far stronger than Alonso of 2003, Hamilton of 2015-2021 is far stronger than Hamilton of 2007-2012. Verstappen debuted in 2015 but still making mistakes.
    My point is the same…!!

  16. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    And what was illegal about the Ferrari 2019 engines?

    As I've said, both Mercedes and Red Bull ran with "debatable" devices on their cars that got banned. But you're not downplaying their achievements, yet you're downplaying Leclerc's.
    Look, Ferrari got caught with an illegal engine at the end of 2019 by tricking the original fuel flow sensor...in other words....Ferrari was injecting more fuel into the engine...which is illegal since this turbo hybrid era started...hence the introduction of the 2nd fuel flow sensor. Now we don't know how far back Ferrari was tricking the original fuel flow sensor but currently in 2021, Ferrari is'nt running 2nd place anymore like it used to....I'm just throwing that out there.

    Mercedes and RedBull ran with innovative devices...then they got banned...because they found a loophole in the rules.
    Last edited by jgonzalesm6; 5th June 2021 at 18:21.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  17. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    In what year or years were those poles??? (were they with the debateable illegal engine??)

    For all we know, the end of 2019 and going into 2020 where Ferrari was penalized but actually how far back was Ferrari tricking the fuel flow sensor??? We probably won't know till 15 or 20yrs time.
    First time I disagree with you.

    Leave the controversy apart. Driver still needs to keep it on pole.
    I feel leclerc did that & too against vettel who was no.1 at Ferrari.

    Leclerc & Max have the raw pace. As I said earlier max is too aggressive. Ofcourse he’s matured a lot in handling the media but still not his driving style. On the other hand, yes leclerc making mistakes but still he’s keeping the Ferrari alive.
    Hopefully he will learn from these things. Leclerc defensive technique is far more superior than Max. The later pushes the driver away or off the track while handling wheel to wheel.

  18. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    How are flexible wings illegal?? I've seen front wings flex for quite some time buy various teams....over 5 years I believe.

    The FIA along with Mercedes have opened up a can-of-worms with flexible wings. The question is, to what degree are the front and rear wings allowed to flex under load??? 5mm??? 10mm??? 20mm???
    Basically it’s the problem with FIA reg, not with the teams. They are finding something innovative & FIA says it’s legal for this year not for next year. That’s really strange, which means the opposite doesn’t carry the same innovation next year at the same advantage goes to the team who can still use it for current year.

    Ferrari engine saga, FIA couldn’t find anything after thorough investigation & couldn’t explain what it is. May be it’s mutual understanding between Ferrari & FIA.

  19. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    First time I disagree with you.

    Leave the controversy apart. Driver still needs to keep it on pole.
    I feel leclerc did that & too against vettel who was no.1 at Ferrari.

    Leclerc & Max have the raw pace. As I said earlier max is too aggressive. Ofcourse he’s matured a lot in handling the media but still not his driving style. On the other hand, yes leclerc making mistakes but still he’s keeping the Ferrari alive.
    Hopefully he will learn from these things. Leclerc defensive technique is far more superior than Max. The later pushes the driver away or off the track while handling wheel to wheel.
    Leclerc is one of the top 3 drivers on the grid. The kid has raw talent.

    I'm putting the blame on Ferrari...not Leclerc. Leclerc is raw talent in an inferior car and possibly in an inferior organization currently.....but Ferrari is sloooooooooowing changing. Maybe we might even see a resurgence in 2022 to being back in the front???
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  20. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post

    Ferrari engine saga, FIA couldn’t find anything after thorough investigation & couldn’t explain what it is. May be it’s mutual understanding between Ferrari & FIA.
    yeah, we won't know the real truths to the investigation as it is under lock and key.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  21. #171
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    lookup the youtube video by Chainbear about the flexiwings.

    The regulation says that the wings must be IMMOBILE otherwise it qualifies as an aerodynamic device since it is on the unsprung part of the car.

    Now yes, we all know that's impossible, and every team does it. But that still means any movement is technically illegal.

  22. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cavallino View Post
    lookup the youtube video by Chainbear about the flexiwings.

    The regulation says that the wings must be IMMOBILE otherwise it qualifies as an aerodynamic device since it is on the unsprung part of the car.

    Now yes, we all know that's impossible, and every team does it. But that still means any movement is technically illegal.
    So if these flexi-wings are illegal and have been going on for some time, then why has'nt the FIA done anything about it if all the teams are doing it???

    And due to the recent cost cap budget, WHAT IF the FIA clamps down on said illegal wings, that means teams will have to spend lots of money to re-make said wings so they don't flex.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  23. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    So if these flexi-wings are illegal and have been going on for some time, then why has'nt the FIA done anything about it if all the teams are doing it???

    And due to the recent cost cap budget, WHAT IF the FIA clamps down on said illegal wings, that means teams will have to spend lots of money to re-make said wings so they don't flex.
    Because Mercedes didn't want them to.

  24. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cavallino View Post
    Because Mercedes didn't want them to.
    lol.....touche
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  25. #175
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    Just wanted to say that I'm extremely proud of Charles. He's easily the best qualifier we've had since Schumacher was at his speed peak in 2000-01 and he just never gives up. I really hope he can pull out a rabbit from the hat tomorrow and keep them at bay. He deserves it because to be honest, there's no driver on the grid I'd swap him for. Period.

  26. #176
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    Saturday night rain in Baku, that might wash some of the rubber off the track and create a bit of a reset...
    It's not how start but how you finish.

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    BBC = BIASED BRITISH CRAP.

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  29. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rishu View Post
    Sad to see no one mentioning Binotto. Guy takes plenty of slack here whenever we don’t do well, while drivers take credit when things are opposite
    Agree completely. Majority of posters would have rather canned him. What do we get by keeping him. A major restructuring. A car that is class of the field in corners. Great correlation and updates that work. 2 drivers that deliver.
    I'm not convinced. Let's get rid of him and start all over.

  30. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Look, Ferrari got caught with an illegal engine at the end of 2019 by tricking the original fuel flow sensor...in other words....Ferrari was injecting more fuel into the engine...which is illegal since this turbo hybrid era started...hence the introduction of the 2nd fuel flow sensor. Now we don't know how far back Ferrari was tricking the original fuel flow sensor but currently in 2021, Ferrari is'nt running 2nd place anymore like it used to....I'm just throwing that out there.

    Mercedes and RedBull ran with innovative devices...then they got banned...because they found a loophole in the rules.
    I think we can clarify that Ferrari was NOT found to have an illegal engine. Fia could not verify that. Instead they added extra sensors to the PU.
    the rear wings on the RB and Ferrari also pass all required test parameters and according to those tests are legal.
    They can be used legally until someone protests and provides proof and then the FIA will refine their tests.
    Far as I'm concerned all Ferraris poles and wins were valid.

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