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Thread: 2021 Azerbaijan Grand Prix - Baku, June 04 - 06

  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Bob View Post
    I think we can clarify that Ferrari was NOT found to have an illegal engine. Fia could not verify that. Instead they added extra sensors to the PU.
    .
    Then why the sudden drop in the rankings from 2019 to 6th place in 2020??? Obviously the 2nd sensor hampered performance...yes???
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  2. #182
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    AMuS

    The Honda teams still had the old engines in their car during practice today, while Mercedes and Ferrari had already switched to the second power units. But it is expected that the Honda teams also switch to new power units tomorrow.

    Honda wanted to wait and see on Friday whether new power units are necessary. Their data suggested nothing suspicious, so no PU changes. Honda prefer to wait another 14 days, to improve the reliability further, so that they can release more power from the FrenchGP onwards.

    "At Mercedes, they say that they have seen from videos that the Red Bull rear wing was still flexing. However, we hear from FIA circles that Red Bull is not out of line this time and that the Mercedes wing is also showing signs of flexing."

    Toto Wolff left it open whether a protest would follow after the race. Maybe to also keep the rival in the dark.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Then why the sudden drop in the rankings from 2019 to 6th place in 2020??? Obviously the 2nd sensor hampered performance...yes???
    Because FIA changed testing methods. Doesn't mean Ferrari were cheating. Just like if Red Bull change wing next week and lose some speed. Doesnt mean car was illegal.

  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Bob View Post
    Because FIA changed testing methods. Doesn't mean Ferrari were cheating. Just like if Red Bull change wing next week and lose some speed. Doesnt mean car was illegal.
    Everyone got a 2nd fuel flow sensor and no one dropped in the WCC rankings like Ferrari did....6 places is alot.

    When you inject more fuel into the ICE unit than the regulated and mandated fuel flow rate, it's cheating....hence the encrypted and randomly selected 2nd fuel flow sensor so no one can inject or bypass the fuel flow rate that is mandated.





    How the FIA’s new encrypted fuel flow meter targets Ferrari’s suspected ‘aliasing’ trick

    The new, second fuel flow meter the FIA has added to Formula 1 cars this year is designed to prevent a trick Ferrari is believed to have used last season.

    Ferrari insists its car conformed to the rules throughout 2019. However rival teams have criticised the FIA for reaching a settlement with the team without disclosing details of its investigation, part of which is believed to have concerned the fuel flow rules.

    Since 2014, F1 teams have been required to fit a fuel flow meter which ensures their power units do not consume fuel at a rate greater than 100kg per hour. However last year some teams began to suspect Ferrari had found a means of exceeding the limit.

    One theory held that Ferrari had developed a system known as ‘aliasing’ which could allow them to deliver fuel at a higher rate when needed, such as on qualifying laps.

    The fuel flow meter measures the rate of flow very quickly – 2,200 times per second. However it remained theoretically possible for teams to deliver fuel to the meter in a sufficiently precise way that it appeared to be flowing at a slower rate that it was.

    One technician consulted by RaceFans estimated the potential power gained from aliasing could be as much as 50bhp.

    Last year Red Bull asked the FIA to clarify whether teams were allowed to use such a technique. The FIA responded by issuing a technical directive ahead of the United States Grand Prix stating it would be illegal. During that weekend Ferrari’s previous straight-line speed advantage appeared to have lessened.

    The most recent version of the 2020 Formula 1 technical regulations, published 10 days ago, continues to refer to “a single fuel flow sensor” in the cars. However teams have been required to fit a second sensor under a further technical directive.

    There are two important differences between the new fuel flow sensor at the original one. The new ‘FIA fuel flow meter’ samples the fuel flow rate in a different way, making it harder for teams to get around the limit, and the data it generates is encrypted and available only to the FIA.

    Manufacturer Sentronics says this will make it “impossible” for any team to exceed the fuel flow limit.

    “This eliminates the possibility of the data being used as part of a feedback system to gain a competitive advantage.”

    The new fuel flow meter was added to the cars at pre-season testing and will continue to operate alongside the existing device. The FIA will retain a pool of the new meters and allocate a sensor to each car at the beginning of each event.

    “This new variant of the FlowSonic fuel flow meter is not only one of the most technologically advanced currently available, but is an important step forward in improving the FIA’s policing of the maximum fuel flow regulations in F1,” said Sentronics managing director Neville Meech. “We’re proud to lead the market in solid-state fuel flow meters, and to demonstrate our ability to develop world-class technology in rapid timeframes.”

    The FIA announced last month it had reached an settlement with Ferrari following its investigation into their power unit but would keep details of its finding secret. This prompted an angry response from the seven non-Ferrari-powered teams, who have demanded clarifications from the FIA as to whether Ferrari operated within the rules at all times last year.

    In a further statement, the FIA admitted it was “not fully satisfied” Ferrari’s power unit operated “within the limits of the FIA regulations at all times” during 2019. The careful wording indicates they suspected not that the power unit was illegal, but that it may have operated outside the rules at certain times.

    Ferrari “firmly opposed the suspicions and reiterated that its [power unit] always operated in compliance with the regulations,” the FIA noted. Of course, this did nothing to placate the seven teams who complained.

    As those teams already had details of the new fuel flow sensor, the fact it is so clearly aimed at preventing anyone getting around the fuel flow rules shows why their suspicions were so strong.

    https://www.racefans.net/2020/03/16/...liasing-trick/
    Last edited by jgonzalesm6; 6th June 2021 at 01:23.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Everyone got a 2nd fuel flow sensor and no one dropped in the WCC rankings like Ferrari did....6 places is alot.

    When you inject more fuel into the ICE unit than the regulated and mandated fuel flow rate, it's cheating....hence the encrypted and randomly selected 2nd fuel flow sensor so no one can inject or bypass the fuel flow rate that is mandated.
    Except if your car passes all existing scrutineerring regulations it's not cheating . Its exploiting loopholes. Exactly what Red Bull have done with their wings. The car passes all relevant tests so is legal. Ferrari obviously was exploiting loopholes that weren't recognized by FIA. Wasnt illegal until 2nd sensor was brought in and tests were modified. If Ferrari were found unconditionally to have had an illegal PU then they would have been DQ'd.

  6. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Bob View Post
    Except if your car passes all existing scrutineerring regulations it's not cheating . Its exploiting loopholes. Exactly what Red Bull have done with their wings. The car passes all relevant tests so is legal. Ferrari obviously was exploiting loopholes that weren't recognized by FIA. Wasnt illegal until 2nd sensor was brought in and tests were modified. If Ferrari were found unconditionally to have had an illegal PU then they would have been DQ'd.
    It's like an on and off switch......yes, the PU passed the initial tests and the fuel flow rate was okay.....but by technically "aliasing" the original fuel flow sensor at certian times...like qualifying and in the race..., it gave the FIA "false" readings or signals.

    I reposted post #184 with an article on the subject.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    It's like an on and off switch......yes, the PU passed the initial tests and the fuel flow rate was okay.....but by technically "aliasing" the original fuel flow sensor at certian times...like qualifying and in the race..., it gave the FIA "false" readings or signals.

    I reposted post #184 with an article on the subject.
    Allegedly. No one can say definitively except Ferrari. And even if they did do that, good for them for exploiting and thinking outside the box. Rather that then being laid back and satisfied with status quo.

  8. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Bob View Post
    Allegedly. No one can say definitively except Ferrari. And even if they did do that, good for them for exploiting and thinking outside the box. Rather that then being laid back and satisfied with status quo.
    I'm all for finding loopholes in the rules but this particular incident is'nt a loophole......it's Ferrari "tampering" with the mandated fuel flow rates at certain times to make it look like Ferrari are adhering to said fuel flow rates mandated by the FIA. It's a false pretense.

    This is'nt like other loopholes of the past in F1 where it was public. This was a secret settlement between Ferrari and the FIA and the other teams were left out of it.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  9. #189
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    live by the sword, die by the sword. If you rely on a loophole to be quick and then that loophole is closed, you have to sleep in that bed that you made. If FIA changes the flexiwing test and Red Bull drops in performance, I have no sympathy. It's the same as when we relied on the fuel sensor trick, obviously, I don't think the flexiwing test change will turn Red Bull into midfielders, but it's the same pretense.

  10. #190
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    I regret missing this quali...

  11. #191
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    Always keep wondering... if only we got Leclerc 1 year earlier in Ferrari i.e. 2018

  12. #192
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    Can anyone update wrt Carlos's car? He did have a side impact while avoiding Tsunoda, similar to what Charles had in Monaco.
    I just hope his car is safe.
    Wrt team, I would say anything more than P5(P6,7.)we should just forget it while anything less than P5(P4,3..)we should call it our luck and take it with both hands. But then we had 4 red flags in the entire Quali session so there would definitely be something to watch for in the race. I just hope it doesn't spoil ours.
    Last edited by 20000rpm; 6th June 2021 at 07:55.

  13. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by 20000rpm View Post
    Can anyone update wrt Carlos's car? He did have a side impact while avoiding Tsunoda, similar to what Charles had in Monaco.
    I just hope his car is safe.
    Wrt team, I would say anything more than P5(P6,7.)we should just forget it while anything less than P5(P4,3..)we should call it our luck and take it with both hands. But then we had 4 red flags in the entire Quali session so there would definitely be something to watch for in the race. I just hope it doesn't spoil ours.
    I have'nt seen anything yet on Sainz's car.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  14. #194
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    Ferrari believe they ‘won’t have pace to win’ after surprise pole

    Ferrari sporting director Laurent Mekies says the team does not believe it will be quick enough to win the Azerbaijan Grand Prix despite Charles Leclerc starting from pole position.

    Mekies believes their car was quick enough for the third row of the grid, but said they took advantage of a disrupted qualifying session to claim their second pole position in a row, with Carlos Sainz Jnr fifth on the grid.
    “It was a very tricky session,” Mekies admitted. “I guess you can expect these sort of tricky sessions in street circuits like here but it really proved out to be very intense.

    “Already from Q1 I think we had red flags every session, or nearly. I don’t think anybody has put in a perfect lap this afternoon. But it was important to put in good enough laps to go to the next step.

    I think both Charles and Carlos had a very good pace. Probably better than what we had on Friday and Saturday. So it’s good to see that the team have progressed through the weekend to lift up our game in a track where we were not expecting to in such good conditions.

    “I don’t know if [we had] the outright pace was pole, but then Charles put it on pole with quite a margin. And Carlos had the same pace so it could have gone any which way, it could have gone with both our cars up there or with both our cars probably in the third row.

    “So I think it’s a good feeling to get the second pole in a row. It’s good for the team, the team is very focussed developing every race, building up every race. And it’s good to get this sort of results to to constructing what we are trying to construct.”

    Although Ferrari took pole position for the previous race in Monaco, Mekies said this weekend’s success is “a surprise for us.”

    “We were not expecting to fight for pole and to actually get the pole here with the long straights,” he explained. “We went for quite a low level of downforce, so very different altogether car configuration to Monaco because you run obviously very maximum downforce and we run quite low here.”

    Mekies admitted Ferrari are “under no illusion that the race is different picture” to qualifying and they are likely to face significant pressure from faster rivals. “Red Bull was flying on the long run on Friday compared to us,” he said. “Lewis as well.”

    “We expect a tough fight tomorrow because we believe we will not have the pace to fight for the win,” he added. “So it’s going to be a defensive race.”

    https://www.racefans.net/2021/06/06/...surprise-pole/
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  15. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cavallino View Post
    live by the sword, die by the sword. If you rely on a loophole to be quick and then that loophole is closed, you have to sleep in that bed that you made. If FIA changes the flexiwing test and Red Bull drops in performance, I have no sympathy. It's the same as when we relied on the fuel sensor trick, obviously, I don't think the flexiwing test change will turn Red Bull into midfielders, but it's the same pretense.
    The difference is, the flexi-wing issue is one that everyone uses. The flexi-wing issue is'nt primarily aimed at RedBull.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  16. #196
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    It's really simple, Ferrari and Charles were becoming a threat to the woke vegan loser and the fŁhrer so the maFIA stepped in to keep the status quo intact and banned Ferrari's perfectly legal engine for 2020. Disgusting people.

  17. #197
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    Totally discussing but we are coming back strong i said a while ago that the new beginning was on the horizon.From where ferrari were last year to know is simply amazing.I would love to see how the horrible people would fare if they were handed the same penalty.Short answer NOWWHERE.

  18. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Bob View Post
    Agree completely. Majority of posters would have rather canned him. What do we get by keeping him. A major restructuring. A car that is class of the field in corners. Great correlation and updates that work. 2 drivers that deliver.
    I'm not convinced. Let's get rid of him and start all over.
    Then why didnít the same happen when 2017-2018 where we are getting into the groove under the leadership of MA..???

    End of day if Ferrari is winning everything is fine for me. Itís not only drivers, leader of the team is also responsible.

    The way Mr. B agreed to the Engine deal with FIA didnít go well with me. We gave away 2years.
    Leclerc joined Ferrari 2019 .. now its 2021. 3years we wasted his talent by not giving him the necessary car.
    I donít want to see another cycle where loosing another great driver to other team because of your in capability building a championship car. As simple as that.

    I hope we are in a strong position come next year. If not I donít see Leclerc winning as championship with us.

    The way Mr. H & Mr. Toto rules the FIA reg, this is what they want the aggressive approach while defining the regulations. Thatís missing in Mr.B, we have the strength to play our cards but we arenít doing that.

    Todt-Brawn-Ferrari era, these were aggressive on what Ferrari needed. Thatís where success came on.

  19. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tifoso Svedese View Post
    It's really simple, Ferrari and Charles were becoming a threat to the woke vegan loser and the fŁhrer so the maFIA stepped in to keep the status quo intact and banned Ferrari's perfectly legal engine for 2020. Disgusting people.
    Awwww

    Why did Ferrari make a secret deal if it was legal?
    Forza Ferrari

  20. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    Awwww

    Why did Ferrari make a secret deal if it was legal?
    Because Binotto is a weak and spineless leader who never stands up for himself. He's Toto's bitch. Then again you seem to support team "safety" (cars a long way off the track bringing out NASCAR cautions) above team Ferrari anyway so it's just pointless discussing this with you since you'd rather lose a title than having marshals 100 yards off the racing line retrieving cars in an 80 kph slow corner

  21. #201
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    For those that need a link:

    https://www.streameast.live/

    click on the Azerbaijan GP live link.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  22. #202
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    I am glad for that pole, but on this track it doesn't give any advantage at all!

  23. #203
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    Forza Ferrari! Hope we have a good race!

    I would love a Charles win but I also would like Max to be in front of goldenboy but I feel that's not likely today.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stefa View Post
    I am glad for that pole, but on this track it doesn't give any advantage at all!
    only 1 race won from pole this season, let's hope this will be the 2nd.

  25. #205
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    Judging by how many accidents we had over the weekend, I think SC is almost certain here.
    Hopefully luck is on our side, and our pit wall will be able to react with split seconds decision.

    Hope for a good race for us

  26. #206
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    4 Honda cars in the top 7.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

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    Joke of a sport and that was without DRS

  28. #208
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    It didn't last long...

  29. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by 458 Italia View Post
    Joke of a sport and that was without DRS
    And Ferrari’s engine was deemed illegal. that Merc is a rocket. Unbelievable.
    ~FORZA FERRARI~

  30. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by ferrari1.8t View Post
    And Ferrari’s engine was deemed illegal. that Merc is a rocket. Unbelievable.
    Went past Lec like he was standing still.

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