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Thread: 2021 Austrian Grand Prix: Post Race Analysis

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    2021 Austrian Grand Prix: Post Race Analysis

    Qualifying for the Austrian GP was once again very exciting. Max on pole, Mercedes struggling, Lando an incredible P2, and Russell an unbelievable P9 after getting into Q3 on Medium tires.

    The race should be renamed the 5 second penalty grand prix. For the most part it was a snooze for 60 laps, but the finish was excellent.

    Red Bull were the class of the field. Give Max Verstappen the best car, and it is frightening what he can do. In terms of pure domination, it may be the best drive of his career, and he didn't even have to push it. Perez on the other hand had a race to forget as it was a big missed opportunity. Getting pushed out into the gravel effectively ruined his race, but he wasn't able to progress forward despite being in the best car. His first penalty against Leclerc was well deserved, the second one I felt was closer to a racing incident. But by that point, this was the 3rd pushing a driver off track incident Perez was involved with, and she should have learned by then. Those 10 seconds of penalty proved costly as it dropped him to 6th.

    Mercedes were not as bad as they showed today. Had the race unfolded naturally after Perez went off, I think 2nd and 3rd was very possible. Their pace was held up by Lando, otherwise the car was fast enough for podiums and to at least put some pressure on Max. Lewis got damage at some point and wasn't really in contention, while Bottas was held back to until late in the race where he was given the okay to pass Lewis. Traditionally the Red Bull Ring has not been their greatest track over the last 7 or 8 years, so this result is pretty good and I think we'll see them back to form in Silverstone.

    McLaren had a very good car, and Lando drove exceptionally well. Despite what the media suggests, I completely agree with the penalty he was given. Perez was not just along side of him, but actually had a nose ahead going into the corner, and it is Norris' responsibility to leave a cars width. He didn't, he drove his car out onto the kerbs and Perez was forced off track. Ricciardo had a decent race, but was still way off the pace compared to Norris. He was the slow car leading the mid field train and if he would have been quicker in clean air, he would have benefited from Perez's 10 second penalty.

    Ferrari had strong race pace. They made the right call by putting the cars on Mediums in Q2. Sainz got to start the race on Hard tires from 10th place, but unfortunately was a sitting duck in the opening laps and fell back until he was able to just focus on their strategy. Ferrari made the right call by letting Sainz through to challenge Ricciardo, which he made the pass on the last lap and then put his foot down to stay within 10 seconds of Perez to move up to 5th. Incredible. Leclerc appeared to have better race pace than Sainz, made some great moves at the start to get ahead but from there was stuck in traffic the entire race. Getting pushed off track twice certainly didn't help his race. He deserved better than 8th place, but that's how it goes.

    AlphaTauri was kind of in the land of nowhere. Gasly getting points once again, but we really never saw him during the race so we don't even know if his race could have unfolded differently. Yuki Tsunoda ruined his own race by making the silly mistake of cutting over the white line on pit entry... not once but twice!

    Alpine had all their pace in one driver, Fernando Alonso, who had a brilliant battle with Russell. For most of the race it appeared Alonso would be stuck out of the points, but once he caught up to the Williams, the fight was on and Alonso did everything to get the position. A great fight for just 1 point, that defines Alonso's racing mentality. Ocon simply had a miserable couple weeks in Austria and I am curious to see how he bounces back.

    Williams should be proud of their performances, though it was mostly carried by the majestic talent in George Russell. Credit to the Mercedes power as they were awfully fast in a straight line and have had good results around the Red Bull Ring before. A bit of a shame they couldn't convert that amazing qualifying into points, but realistically it was a long shot to begin with. Russell couldn't have put himself into a better position in the event someone in front had issues. It just didn't happen. Latifi can only be happy his dad has money to keep his seat. He really needs to start showing a result. He's at risk of being considered the worst driver on the grid behind Mazepin.

    Aston Martin really struggled. Starting on Soft tires I think is what killed their race. Track position was everything and once a car got behind another, it was stuck their. A pretty poor performance by Stroll who by all accounts should have finished ahead of Tsunoda and his 2 penalties. Vettel got caught up in the last lap crash with Raikkonen which was about as 50/50 as I have ever seen, but it didn't matter anyways.

    Alfa Romeo didn't have a bad race. Raikkonen was very very good in the race and was right behind Russell and looked to be a good bit faster at the end of the race. Unfortunately his race ended in the crash, which as I just said, was completely a racing incident that was 50% both drivers fault. Giovinazzi's early pitstop didn't help him, but didn't hurt him all that badly, just didn't have the pace to make passes on track.

    Haas stayed out of everyone's way when getting lapped, didn't crash or break down. So that's good. Schumacher was head and shoulders above Mazepin once again.

    Driver of the Day: Max Verstappen. This was a very difficult decision as Lando deserved it just as much. Lando outperformed the McLaren and could have finished ahead of the Mercedes, but since I believe he deserved his penalty, that's a blemish that may have cost him 2nd place. Verstappen who didn't have a challenge from anyone, but his 9/10ths driving was still easily fast enough to have a nearly 30 second gap, pit for new tires, and easily open that back up to 18 seconds over a dozen or so laps. He was in the zone.

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    Why open so many threads for the same race??!?!?
    @Mods, can we please keep all this to RACE thread!?

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    Quote Originally Posted by stefa View Post
    Why open so many threads for the same race??!?!?
    @Mods, can we please keep all this to RACE thread!?
    Because there are a dozen different conversations going on in that race thread which contains things like Ferrari's engine back in 2018. This is a discussion of events and performances of ALL the teams after the race has concluded.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SS454 View Post
    Because there are a dozen different conversations going on in that race thread which contains things like Ferrari's engine back in 2018. This is a discussion of events and performances of ALL the teams after the race has concluded.
    Well said !!

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    Quote Originally Posted by SS454 View Post
    Because there are a dozen different conversations going on in that race thread which contains things like Ferrari's engine back in 2018. This is a discussion of events and performances of ALL the teams after the race has concluded.
    Agreed!!! This is a pure analysis based thread while the Race thread is where all the emotions, bickering, name calling, racism pour in. Such a post might get lost and there would absolutely be no coherence.

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    I quite enjoy SS454's post race analysis, it sums up what other commentators often fail to see!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by wisepie View Post
    I quite enjoy SS454's post race analysis, it sums up what other commentators often fail to see!!
    Thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by SS454 View Post
    Thanks!
    Keep up the good work, grazie to you too!

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    If you want my two cents, a few years ago, it seems this board started moving to consolidating to just a few ongoing threads, with 1 new thread for each race.

    I do find it hard to keep up with the long race threads.

    I like this particular thread because it usually comes out a little bit after the race has finished, and the dust has settled, and I have had time to get my thoughts together too.

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    Counting the points each driver; team; won after the race is where it's at . How they got them is great discussions for the thread. Also Mick finishing another full race is big time for his time @ F-1 ! Meanwhile Bottas finished 2nd place and now has 92 points . Russell finished again with zero points. He does have 6 points on his Super Licence. How does anyone think Bottas should be replaced at all , never mind with a Williams driver is beyond me.
    Last edited by Brembo; 6th July 2021 at 07:26.

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    Anyone that actually watches the races have seen Russell appears to be a super talent, yet the truth is there very limited quality evidence to go on. Lack of points is not one of them as he has been driving the worst car on the grid that can't get points on pace alone. That's a fact. We do know Russell has destroyed his teammates, though fair enough his Williams teammates have among the worst on the grid. We do know the one time he got a good car, he was on route to beat Bottas and win the race. That is pretty impressive.

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    Judging by most every fan here on our forum; any F-1 driver in Sir Lewis car can win a race regardless of who it is. The " Car!" not the driver is what got all those wins. What has Russell done to prove he's a super talent? I really don't know. Beating his team mates? All said I believe Bottas has done enough good for all those Merc wins to stay there. 9th place in Sir Lewis car is how it ended. Perez came from 18th to win that race. He even managed his tires to finish with just one pit! Two Merc pits vs. 18th place sounds about even as far as struggling.

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    I would say 75% of the grid could have won in most of Hamilton's cars from 2014 to 2020, most of those could have easily been champions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SS454 View Post
    I would say 75% of the grid could have won in most of Hamilton's cars from 2014 to 2020, most of those could have easily been champions.
    Agreed gven the rules and reguations of the era. Domination in the turbo hybrid era was stymied or stagnant from the competition to develop their PU.

    On a side note, Mika Salo drove Schumi's car in 1999 and he would have won in it as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Agreed gven the rules and reguations of the era. Domination in the turbo hybrid era was stymied or stagnant from the competition to develop their PU.

    On a side note, Mika Salo drove Schumi's car in 1999 and he would have won in it as well.
    I gotta disagree with that one. The F399 was a very good car, but very equally matched to the McLaren. In the 6 races Salo did with Ferrari, he got in the points just twice, both times on the podium. That's not good enough for a championship. Ferrari admitted once Michael broke his leg, they put full effort into Irvine and he lost out to Mika.

    The F2002 and F2004, most of the drivers on the grid would have won the championship in that car, no doubt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SS454 View Post
    I gotta disagree with that one. The F399 was a very good car, but very equally matched to the McLaren. In the 6 races Salo did with Ferrari, he got in the points just twice, both times on the podium. That's not good enough for a championship. Ferrari admitted once Michael broke his leg, they put full effort into Irvine and he lost out to Mika.

    The F2002 and F2004, most of the drivers on the grid would have won the championship in that car, no doubt.
    Mika was ordered by Brawn to let off the gas in one of the races.

    The only times I have seen true competition in the 2000's was 05 and 06 and 2021 You can throw in 2012 as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Mika was ordered by Brawn to let off the gas in one of the races.

    The only times I have seen true competition in the 2000's was 05 and 06 and 2021 You can throw in 2012 as well.
    Germany 1999. It was a wacky race where Hakkinen could have even won it. Sure team orders allowed Irvine win the race, which supports that Ferrari did everything they could to help him win the WDC. The car was good enough to win races, but no way Salo could have won the championship in it.

    As for competition in the 2000s. 2000 was a very competitive year. 2003. 2007, 2008, 2009. 2001 the Ferrari was actually not immensely faster, the team just did so much better and it added up to a dominating year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    Counting the points each driver; team; won after the race is where it's at . How they got them is great discussions for the thread. Also Mick finishing another full race is big time for his time @ F-1 ! Meanwhile Bottas finished 2nd place and now has 92 points . Russell finished again with zero points. He does have 6 points on his Super Licence. How does anyone think Bottas should be replaced at all , never mind with a Williams driver is beyond me.
    Bottas should be replaced with Russell. Bottas needs Lewis to have an issue with his car in order to pass him. Russell will pass him on pace - that's if he's not ahead already from qualifying.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    Judging by most every fan here on our forum; any F-1 driver in Sir Lewis car can win a race regardless of who it is. The " Car!" not the driver is what got all those wins. What has Russell done to prove he's a super talent? I really don't know. Beating his team mates? All said I believe Bottas has done enough good for all those Merc wins to stay there. 9th place in Sir Lewis car is how it ended. Perez came from 18th to win that race. He even managed his tires to finish with just one pit! Two Merc pits vs. 18th place sounds about even as far as struggling.
    Lewis the Great?
    I don't think it's just the car. I think Lewis is an incredibly talented and intelligent driver - probably in the top 3 of all the drivers from 2007 to 2021. However, on pure pace I'm not convinced that he's the fastest. If the cars were totally identical in the last 10 years, I think Lewis would have the most championships due to being a better driver over a race and over the season (consistency, adaptability etc) but nowhere near 7, and I say that because I think the likes of Leclerc are not as consistent as LH despite possibly being quicker. I hope Leclerc develops that consistency as he becomes more experienced. I fear that Lando is developing more/better than Leclerc. I hope not.

    Man vs Machine
    As for the Merc car, I would say it has definitely contributed to LH's tally. And I agree that many other drivers would have had championships in that car. Perhaps the more pertinent question is, how many drivers would win multiple championships in a Merc with LH as their teammate?

    "Lewis, Michael is faster than you (or is he?)"
    My gut feel tells me that Michael Schumacher was more skillful, consistent and adaptable than LH, and also faster, therefore he's the better driver. Over a ten year period, with everything else being equal and the cars being identical, MS would win more championships than LH. I don't have scientific evidence, just my gut feel.

    (This response probably belongs in another thread.)
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    Yes ! Michael would be the better if for 10 years against Sir Lewis he had Rubens ; Ross and Todt working for him. Throw in his #1 strong contracts and a T car to boot. If as you say if everything being equal I truly believe Sir Lewis would be the better. Remember he's had to race against Bottas with the same cars .

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    Quote Originally Posted by ntukza View Post
    Lewis the Great?
    I don't think it's just the car. I think Lewis is an incredibly talented and intelligent driver - probably in the top 3 of all the drivers from 2007 to 2021. However, on pure pace I'm not convinced that he's the fastest. If the cars were totally identical in the last 10 years, I think Lewis would have the most championships due to being a better driver over a race and over the season (consistency, adaptability etc) but nowhere near 7, and I say that because I think the likes of Leclerc are not as consistent as LH despite possibly being quicker. I hope Leclerc develops that consistency as he becomes more experienced. I fear that Lando is developing more/better than Leclerc. I hope not.

    Man vs Machine
    As for the Merc car, I would say it has definitely contributed to LH's tally. And I agree that many other drivers would have had championships in that car. Perhaps the more pertinent question is, how many drivers would win multiple championships in a Merc with LH as their teammate?

    "Lewis, Michael is faster than you (or is he?)"
    My gut feel tells me that Michael Schumacher was more skillful, consistent and adaptable than LH, and also faster, therefore he's the better driver. Over a ten year period, with everything else being equal and the cars being identical, MS would win more championships than LH. I don't have scientific evidence, just my gut feel.

    (This response probably belongs in another thread.)

    From 2007 to 2021, if all cars were equal. I would say Fernando Alonso would have the most championships. I also think Max would probably be going for 3 in a row at this point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SS454 View Post
    From 2007 to 2021, if all cars were equal. I would say Fernando Alonso would have the most championships. I also think Max would probably be going for 3 in a row at this point.
    I believe Max and Alonso right up there for sure. Three teams with equal cars would be a tough act to follow. But Sir Lewis had and did it with his Merc no questions asked . Fans shouldn't minimize his success because he brought home a winning car against everyone else on the track. He could easily have not won so many races in the car if he wasn't a great driver. His accomplishments are a done deal on record. R Bull did it with Seb , lets see how far it will go with Max.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SS454 View Post
    From 2007 to 2021, if all cars were equal. I would say Fernando Alonso would have the most championships. I also think Max would probably be going for 3 in a row at this point.
    It's hard to ignore the fact that rookie Lewis Hamilton gave Alonso a difficult time in the same car from race 1. That for me remains one of the strongest statements of LH's credentials.

    Perhaps I'm not giving Max enough credit. You may be right. He'd be a strong force for sure.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    I believe Max and Alonso right up there for sure. Three teams with equal cars would be a tough act to follow. But Sir Lewis had and did it with his Merc no questions asked . Fans shouldn't minimize his success because he brought home a winning car against everyone else on the track. He could easily have not won so many races in the car if he wasn't a great driver. His accomplishments are a done deal on record. R Bull did it with Seb , lets see how far it will go with Max.
    Okay Brembo, we got you. We're not disputing that right now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    Yes ! Michael would be the better if for 10 years against Sir Lewis he had Rubens ; Ross and Todt working for him. Throw in his #1 strong contracts and a T car to boot. If as you say if everything being equal I truly believe Sir Lewis would be the better. Remember he's had to race against Bottas with the same cars .
    Try taking Rubens and Bottas and Todt and the T-car and everything else out of the equation just for a moment, and then consider my comment. At the moment you're having a totally different conversation to the one I'm having.
    Last edited by ntukza; 9th July 2021 at 11:59.
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    O K . I thought the conversations were comparing Michael with Sir Lewis as far as who is the better driver F-1 wise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ntukza View Post
    Lewis the Great?
    I don't think it's just the car. I think Lewis is an incredibly talented and intelligent driver - probably in the top 3 of all the drivers from 2007 to 2021. However, on pure pace I'm not convinced that he's the fastest. If the cars were totally identical in the last 10 years, I think Lewis would have the most championships due to being a better driver over a race and over the season (consistency, adaptability etc) but nowhere near 7, and I say that because I think the likes of Leclerc are not as consistent as LH despite possibly being quicker. I hope Leclerc develops that consistency as he becomes more experienced. I fear that Lando is developing more/better than Leclerc. I hope not.

    Man vs Machine
    As for the Merc car, I would say it has definitely contributed to LH's tally. And I agree that many other drivers would have had championships in that car. Perhaps the more pertinent question is, how many drivers would win multiple championships in a Merc with LH as their teammate?

    "Lewis, Michael is faster than you (or is he?)"
    My gut feel tells me that Michael Schumacher was more skillful, consistent and adaptable than LH, and also faster, therefore he's the better driver. Over a ten year period, with everything else being equal and the cars being identical, MS would win more championships than LH. I don't have scientific evidence, just my gut feel.

    (This response probably belongs in another thread.)
    Referring to your comment that Lando is developing more/better than Charles, it may look like that so far this season but Charles is having to try that much harder with an underpowered car just to stay in touch, Lando is on a roll at present and Charles will one day have the tools to show that he has also developed just as well and consistency will follow naturally. I hope so too!
    Last edited by wisepie; 15th July 2021 at 16:57.

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    "Lewis, Michael is faster than you (or is he?)"
    My gut feel tells me that Michael Schumacher was more skillful, consistent and adaptable than LH, and also faster, therefore he's the better driver. Over a ten year period, with everything else being equal and the cars being identical, MS would win more championships than LH. I don't have scientific evidence, just my gut feel.
    I believe at least a Norris and a Leclerc and a Max could easily take on Lewis.

    A Michael at his prime againt a LH at his prime would be a non contest. If for nothing else, apart from the raw race skills, Michael would have the psychological skills to take on a LH who as shown , has an issue under pressure.
    Michael on his prime does not budge under pressure.
    Really , no contest.

    Referring to your comment that Lando is developing more/better than Charles, it may look like that so far this season but Charles is having to try that much harder with an underpowered car just to stay in touch, Lando is on a roll at present and Charles will one day have the tools to show how that he has also developed just as well and consistency will follow naturally. I hope so too!
    Exactly right. People accuse Leclerc that he makes too many, too easy mistakes, they keep forgetting how much he needs to push the cars as of 2020.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ntukza View Post
    It's hard to ignore the fact that rookie Lewis Hamilton gave Alonso a difficult time in the same car from race 1. That for me remains one of the strongest statements of LH's credentials.

    Perhaps I'm not giving Max enough credit. You may be right. He'd be a strong force for sure.
    At the same time, LH had Ron Dennis to support him and eventually McLaren was pretty much behind him as it was later proven, it was not a fair fight.
    There are videos at youtube about this.
    It was not exactly a nice atmosphere for Alonso in McLaren that year.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ntukza View Post
    It's hard to ignore the fact that rookie Lewis Hamilton gave Alonso a difficult time in the same car from race 1. That for me remains one of the strongest statements of LH's credentials.

    Perhaps I'm not giving Max enough credit. You may be right. He'd be a strong force for sure.
    Leiws's dominant wins in this turbo hybrid era are the results of (and in order of priority):

    1.) Mercedes developing the best turbo hybrid engine in advance with a great team.
    2.( The rules and regulations solidified Mercedes dominance with the token system and engine freezes that stymied or stagnated engine performance from the ccompetition.
    3.) Lewis's skills

    Now it's 2021 and we are in race 10 of 23 races (Silverston), and the Mercedes juggernaut FINALLY has competition of the likes of Honda/RedBull and Max. Mercedes and Lewis FINALLY does'nt look so dominant. Btw, Perez is beating Bottas in the WDC rankings along with Norris going into the Silverstone race.
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