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Thread: 2021 Brazilian Grand Prix - Practice, Qualifying and Sprint Qualifying

  1. #61
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    Send them both to the back for Sunday's race
    Forza Ferrari

  2. #62
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    AMuS

    Even Red Bull admits that the Hamilton DRS case was probably a manufacturing fault or done by accident. This is supported by the fact that the rear wing on Bottas' complied with the rules. This explains why the BOT was 5.5 km/h slower than his teammate on the straight.


    not AMuS

    A technical infringement is a technical infringement, I can’t think of a time the FIA has ever been forgiving in that respect, even if it’s a manufacturing fault.

    Max touching a car is a sporting code infringement, they’re usually less severe in their punishment.

    Expect Max to get a formal reprimand and Lewis to get a pit lane start with a new rear wing assembly.

    The delay in the hearing is probably so Mercedes can present evidence it was a manufacturing defect or set up issue.

    I don’t believe they purposely broke the rules, I also dont believe the FIA will be lenient, technical regulations are usually pretty black and white.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  3. #63
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    Failing scrutineering is a simple case of black and white and anything less than a DQ puts any credibility for F1, that is already on thin ice, completely out the window.

    Vettel has been poking around other teams cars for years and hasn't once been reprimanded. In fact, F1's own IG channel shows him doing it as a skill set of his. For Max to get even a reprimand is already breaking the precedent that F1 has set with other drivers. This supports Alonso's statements about favoritism.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS454 View Post
    Failing scrutineering is a simple case of black and white and anything less than a DQ puts any credibility for F1, that is already on thin ice, completely out the window.

    Vettel has been poking around other teams cars for years and hasn't once been reprimanded. In fact, F1's own IG channel shows him doing it as a skill set of his. For Max to get even a reprimand is already breaking the precedent that F1 has set with other drivers. This supports Alonso's statements about favoritism.
    You are 100% correct.. remember Vettel getting disqualified instantly in Hungary for not being able to provide 1 L of fuel? How fast the FIA made their decision then. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, this sport is a joke. It’s only goal is to gift Hamilton 8 titles at any cost.
    ~FORZA FERRARI~

  5. #65
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    There is no chance this was an accident. So essentially Red Bull spotted the "accidental" issue an hour earlier and reported it to the stewards with documentation yet Mercedes own engineers didn't spot the "malfunction" of the DRS. Absolute rubbish. They've been cheating and they've been caught. Now we will see conclusively once and for all whether Mercedes have the FIA in their pocket.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by patrese86 View Post
    There is no chance this was an accident. So essentially Red Bull spotted the "accidental" issue an hour earlier and reported it to the stewards with documentation yet Mercedes own engineers didn't spot the "malfunction" of the DRS. Absolute rubbish. They've been cheating and they've been caught. Now we will see conclusively once and for all whether Mercedes have the FIA in their pocket.
    For me it is very clear. Rules are written as someone said here, it is black and white. And they have been caught cheating. So, punishment and justice is served! Because all this is lasting very long I tend to believe that FIA is trying to find ways how to come out of this situation with clean face and of course Mercedes and their golden boy not to be pushed!

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by stefa View Post
    For me it is very clear. Rules are written as someone said here, it is black and white. And they have been caught cheating. So, punishment and justice is served! Because all this is lasting very long I tend to believe that FIA is trying to find ways how to come out of this situation with clean face and of course Mercedes and their golden boy not to be pushed!
    The key is either to free Hamilton because of Max touching the car, or to also punish Max with a like 10 place grid drop, that would be sufficient to negate Lewis loss. Or give Lewis a slap 5 place drop instead of starting from pitlane. They will get creative if needed. if higher powers within F1 gets involved, I suspect the rulebook goes out the window for other interest, thats what I have been suspecting all along since the delays started mounting.
    "Formula 1 is not a sport anymore” - Fernando Alonso

  8. #68
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    https://www.fia.com/sites/default/fi...20Mercedes.pdf

    From The Stewards
    To The Team Manager,
    Mercedes-AMG Petronas F1 Team
    Document 24
    Date 13 November 2021
    Time 09:01
    2021 BRAZILIAN GRAND PRIX
    11 - 14 November 2021
    A team representative is required to report to the Stewards at 10:30 in relation to the incident below.
    The Stewards
    No / Driver 44 - Lewis Hamilton
    Reason Alleged breach of Article 3.6.3 of the FIA Formula One Technical Regulations.
    Tim Mayer Matteo Perini
    Vitantonio Liuzzi Roberto Pupo Moreno

  9. #69
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    Why is Ham not starting at the back of the grid? He is going for a new ICE, similar to Sainz or Charles, both of which got back of the grid penalty.

  10. #70
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    Leclerc and Sainz changed whole PU and Hamilton only ICE

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by 20000rpm View Post
    Why is Ham not starting at the back of the grid? He is going for a new ICE, similar to Sainz or Charles, both of which got back of the grid penalty.
    If you change only 1 part of the engine, its a 10 place grid drop, and the 2nd time you change only 1 part, its a 5 place grid drop. Thats why Lewis only get 5 places drop on sunday. Its a farce tbh, losing like 1 or 2 places as the race result only.
    "Formula 1 is not a sport anymore” - Fernando Alonso

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by 20000rpm View Post
    Why is Ham not starting at the back of the grid? He is going for a new ICE, similar to Sainz or Charles, both of which got back of the grid penalty.
    It's just an ICE unit change.

    You get penalized or sent back to the grid IF you change everything which consists of the ICE, TC, MGU-H, MGU-K, ES, CE, and EX.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  13. #73
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    Could someone explain where we lack with regards to Gasly/Alpha Tauri?

    Is it because of the driver/PU/aero/track characteristics/combination of multiple factors?

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toothlessrage* View Post
    Could someone explain where we lack with regards to Gasly/Alpha Tauri?

    Is it because of the driver/PU/aero/track characteristics/combination of multiple factors?
    Great driver to include the Honda PU.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  15. #75
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    It's not how start but how you finish.

  16. #76
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    What happens with the ton of papers Newey handed over to the FIA 60 minutes before Q about Mercs wing? Will that issue be adressed after the weekend because of this ongoing saga?
    "Formula 1 is not a sport anymore” - Fernando Alonso

  17. #77
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    The FIA probe goes through the Merc wing so it's a slam dunk penalty, I imagine pit lane start for the sprint.

    Max will get a reprimand at most.
    Forza Ferrari

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lesky View Post
    What happens with the ton of papers Newey handed over to the FIA 60 minutes before Q about Mercs wing? Will that issue be adressed after the weekend because of this ongoing saga?
    Mercedes will meet with the stewards in about 15 minutes at time of post.


    Max looks happy in the RedBull camp eating with his entourage.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Mercedes will meet with the stewards in about 15 minutes at time of post.
    Yes, but isnt that meeting about the DRS only and not the wing flexing at over 260km/h? Those are two separate issues?
    "Formula 1 is not a sport anymore” - Fernando Alonso

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lesky View Post
    Yes, but isnt that meeting about the DRS only and not the wing flexing at over 260km/h? Those are two separate issues?
    DRS only as there has been no investigation into anything else.
    Forza Ferrari

  21. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lesky View Post
    Yes, but isnt that meeting about the DRS only and not the wing flexing at over 260km/h? Those are two separate issues?
    That is what I'm seeing. 2 seperate issues. One is the DRS Infringement and the other is the flexing of the rear wing under load.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    DRS only as there has been no investigation into anything else.
    RedBull presented the FIA with the rear wing flexing under load which is a seperate issue. We'll see what happens after the meeting.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  22. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    That is what I'm seeing. 2 seperate issues. One is the DRS Infringement and the other is the flexing of the rear wing under load.



    RedBull presented the FIA with the rear wing flexing under load which is a seperate issue. We'll see what happens after the meeting.
    It's not being investigated though, just the DRS issue is under investigation ATM.
    Forza Ferrari

  23. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    It's not being investigated though, just the DRS issue is under investigation ATM.
    Have not Ferrari been seen frequently discussing with Red Bulls top brass about Mercs sudden explotion of power on the straights? I believe Ferrari are keen to stop this as well if possible!
    "Formula 1 is not a sport anymore” - Fernando Alonso

  24. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lesky View Post
    Have not Ferrari been seen frequently discussing with Red Bulls top brass about Mercs sudden explotion of power on the straights? I believe Ferrari are keen to stop this as well if possible!
    Binotto said he talked with Red Bull about it but went no further, not sure it was related to the rear wing though.
    Forza Ferrari

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    Marko: Mercedes claiming Verstappen damaged Hamilton's wing

    Helmut Marko says Mercedes are now claiming that Max Verstappen damaged Lewis Hamilton's rear wing in parc ferme conditions.

    URL: https://racingnews365.com/marko-merc...hamiltons-wing

  26. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toothlessrage* View Post
    Marko: Mercedes claiming Verstappen damaged Hamilton's wing

    Helmut Marko says Mercedes are now claiming that Max Verstappen damaged Lewis Hamilton's rear wing in parc ferme conditions.

    URL: https://racingnews365.com/marko-merc...hamiltons-wing
    There is live feed here with the DRS wing also:
    https://racingnews365.com/live-f1-20...ree-practice-2

  27. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toothlessrage* View Post
    Marko: Mercedes claiming Verstappen damaged Hamilton's wing

    Helmut Marko says Mercedes are now claiming that Max Verstappen damaged Lewis Hamilton's rear wing in parc ferme conditions.

    URL: https://racingnews365.com/marko-merc...hamiltons-wing
    Chandok has been posting on twitter that the wing can withstand the huge forces at high speed and Max can't change the position of a wing/flap.

    "For those asking if Max could have manipulated the wing, let’s all be clear that the wings are designed to sustain hundreds of kilos of load without breaking.

    Andre the giant could sit on it! As fit and strong as Max is, I doubt he managed to bend the wing…."
    "Formula 1 is not a sport anymore” - Fernando Alonso

  28. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toothlessrage* View Post
    Marko: Mercedes claiming Verstappen damaged Hamilton's wing

    Helmut Marko says Mercedes are now claiming that Max Verstappen damaged Lewis Hamilton's rear wing in parc ferme conditions.

    URL: https://racingnews365.com/marko-merc...hamiltons-wing
    Forza Ferrari

  29. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    This should mean Lewis goes free and that Max should perhaps be banned from the race and championship for sabotaging Lewis car? Oh wow, cool story!
    "Formula 1 is not a sport anymore” - Fernando Alonso

  30. #90
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    Merc have just left the stewards office, so nearly 1 hour in there.
    Forza Ferrari

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