2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix- Race Thread

[Greig]

Have you seen the official team's telemetry? Seems like you are choosing to believe what you haven't seen vs what you can to get the result that you want.

There is a rule that you cannot impede another driver. Since it's a very clear rule you can't pass under yellow, you cannot slow down to deliberately impede another driver.

This is from the sporting code:

39.5 No car may be driven unnecessarily slowly, erratically or in a manner which could be deemed potentially dangerous to other drivers or any other person at any time whilst the safety car is deployed. This will apply whether any such car is being driven on the track, the pit entry or the pit lane.


39.7 All competing cars must reduce speed and form up in line behind the safety car no more than ten car lengths apart.


So Bottas was in breach of article 39.5 and Hamilton was in breach of article 39.7

So you think the FIA lied about the brake test and Red Bull just accept it? oh ok then if you really want to suggest that I really have no answer. FYI Helmut Marko claimed after the race Max did not brake, he has since apologied for that comment as it was not true, but hey you carry on with your agenda

Lewis was slow on the 2nd formation lap, was not safety car or classed as a formation lap, so no rule break there sadly for you. As for Bottas you would have to ask why Red Bull did not challenge it.

[SS454]

So you think the FIA lied about the brake test and Red Bull just accept it? oh ok then if you really want to suggest that I really have no answer. FYI Helmut Marko claimed after the race Max did not brake, he has since apologied for that comment as it was not true, but hey you carry on with your agenda

Lewis was slow on the 2nd formation lap, was not safety car or classed as a formation lap, so no rule break there sadly for you. As for Bottas you would have to ask why Red Bull did not challenge it.

Why do you never answer my questions?

How are we supposed to know if the FIA "lied" or stretched the truth. We don't know when the 69 bar brake pressure was applied since that data is unavailable. The official statement given never said at what point the 2.4g or 69 bar occurred. I have said it already that if Max actually brake checked Hamilton, then a penalty was deserving. Doesn't mean that Hamilton is off the hook as his driving should be looked at separately.

Helmut Marko is a hot head that says things in the heat of the moment, he isn't the one that lodges protests or appeals.

So on lap 11, Bottas slowed down deliberately which is against Article 39.5, also did not maintain a 10 car length position which also broke 39.7. This was behind a safety car.

On lap 16, the cars were behind a safety car being lead to the grid. The FIA even released a statement about safety car coming in. Article 39.7 says "behind the safety car". So Lewis did in fact break the rules.

Red Bull did challenge both cases, it was even heard during the FIA/RBR communication during the race. The FIA chose to ignore it for some reason.

[Greig]

How can you form up behind the SC when it's round the other side of the track, do tell me that one But other than that very good point well made.

The SC led them round to form on the grid for a start, was not a SC restart, so again you can make things up all you like.

[SS454]

How can you form up behind the SC when it's round the other side of the track, do tell me that one But other than that very good point well made.

The SC led them round to form on the grid for a start, was not a SC restart, so again you can make things up all you like.

They were behind the safety car, go watch the replay. Nobody said it was a SC restart. The rules say "behind the safety car".

Masi threw it out saying it was not a formation lap, nothing about a safety car, even though they were led back to the grid by a safety car.

[Silent Bob]

Bottas going slow so Merc could double stack should have definitely been a penalty.

[Riccardog]

Max still brake tested him, which is why he got a penalty and points on his license. You just want to defend your beloved Max rather than be objective.

not beloved and never liked, but I'll take ANYONE on the current grid to be next world champion rather than seeing lh being champion again (even mazepin or butler bottas!!!)

[Cheeseman]

Horner and Helmut might be defending Max publicly but behind closed doors they will have a had a stern chat with him. His defending was over ambitious to say the least. He could quite eaily have ended their race and score no points and a penalty on top. I like Max, he is the only one to take the fight to Lewis. It would be good for F1 if he wins the championship but not at all cost. Love or hate Lewis, he is solid and he will be tough to beat in Abu Dhabi. The best thing that can happen is for Ferrari to bring a competitive package next year and blow all these muppets out of the water

[tifosi1993]

Silont Bob's debate is what happened at the Jeddah curcuit with regards to Max and Lewis's "brake check" collision. You touched upon it [bolded area] in your response.

It's the manner at which the position was given back.....both slowed down....both slowed down some more...then Max brakes. How much more must Max slow down??? Then later on in the race, Max gave back the position to Lewis a 2nd time whiich he was told on team radio by Horner that he should have not done that.

With regards to Max's antics, he's been penalized more than Lewis in this turbo-hybrid era. There are alot of people that see the FIA bending over for Lewis and Mercedes. Lewis can do no wrong. Lewis clips Max at Copse doing over 180mph(Lewis gets a minor penalty) YET at Hungary Alonso defends Lewis for 10 laps and Lewis says on team radio that it is dangerous at these speeds what Alonso is doing.....really??? After what Lewis did to Max at Copse??? How hypocritical is that.

Then at Jeddah, after Lewis pits under the VSC due to a crash to change tires......then it goes to full course red....Lewis then says the barriers are fine and that the course should not have gone to full course red knowing full well Max gets a FREE pit stop to change tires.

I believe in the "let them race" ideology as long as there is no carnage between the drivers. We have seen in the past, drivers going side-by-side in the corner.....and guess who gets pushed outside???? It happens and mostly every F1 driver has pushed someone outside the track while in the corner.

It's not that hard to comprehend what I've written in my post. But I guess you simply can't read properly, because your way of thinking and reasoning here is just pure idiotic.

You've completely ignored Max's Austria 2019 antics and all the overtaking and defending "defining" rules the FIA had to put in place because of Max. Your post is full of Hamilton and him complaining about Alonso. Really now, Hamilton complaining over radio is worse than Mad Max's mad moves on Charles or Vettel (in China 2018) or any other driver?

Sad and pathetic. And did anything in my post said that Lewis can't do anything wrong? No it didn't. But I guess the voices in your head are talking again and you're hearing and reading things that aren't there.

I've never seen a fan of another team like yourself spending so much time in a dedicated fan forum of a team that you don't support. It's like a Mancity fan spending and defending his favourite team and it's players on a ManUtd fan forum. So why don't you go to a Red Bull fan forum and spend your time with like minded individuals.

In another post you said that you're gonna support Charles when he's up against your precious Max. Really!? It's quite hilarious reading things like that from a guy who cheer Red Bull's overtakes on Ferrari. Again, sad and pathetic.

[tifosi1993]

I agree. The FIA keep allowing dirty and bad driving because it's dramatic TV. The move Max put on Leclerc in 2019was BS and maybe that's why Lewis pushes everyone off the track too. You are going to acknowledge when Hamilton and any other driver does it too right?

Are you going to acknowledge Max's dirty driving without resorting to imaginary whataboutism? And do provide your evidence of Hamilton and other drivers "pushing everyone off track".

And rather than spending so much time on worrying about Red Bull and Max, maybe you should pay a little more attention to what other drivers are saying. Both Charles and Norris gave their opinions and it's quite clear that both were pretty annoyed with the FIA and it's stewards are turning blind eyes on Max's dirty driving.

It really says a lot when drivers "joke" about 10-seconds penalty for a grave and reckless offence like brake testing. So it doesn't matter if random and unknown forum posters vociferously defend their idol Max and his dirty driving.

[jgonzalesm6]

Are you going to acknowledge Max's dirty driving without resorting to imaginary whataboutism? And do provide your evidence of Hamilton and other drivers "pushing everyone off track".

And rather than spending so much time on worrying about Red Bull and Max, maybe you should pay a little more attention to what other drivers are saying. Both Charles and Norris gave their opinions and it's quite clear that both were pretty annoyed with the FIA and it's stewards are turning blind eyes on Max's dirty driving.

It really says a lot when drivers "joke" about 10-seconds penalty for a grave and reckless offence like brake testing. So it doesn't matter if random and unknown forum posters vociferously defend their idol Max and his dirty driving.

Mika Hanninen

I don’t believe that Max was ’brake testing’ Lewis in SaudiArabianGP. I want to see the title decided on the basis of pure racing.

https://twitter.com/F1MikaHakkinen/s...21603543207939




Bernie Ecclestone believes Max Verstappen has been forced to fight on several fronts this season, fending off Lewis Hamilton on the track and Mercedes' bullying off it.

https://f1i.com/news/427692-ecclesto...-mercedes.html



Everyone's got an opinion.

[Riccardog]

Are you going to acknowledge Max's dirty driving without resorting to imaginary whataboutism? And do provide your evidence of Hamilton and other drivers "pushing everyone off track".

And rather than spending so much time on worrying about Red Bull and Max, maybe you should pay a little more attention to what other drivers are saying. Both Charles and Norris gave their opinions and it's quite clear that both were pretty annoyed with the FIA and it's stewards are turning blind eyes on Max's dirty driving.

It really says a lot when drivers "joke" about 10-seconds penalty for a grave and reckless offence like brake testing. So it doesn't matter if random and unknown forum posters vociferously defend their idol Max and his dirty driving.

It also says a lot when some random and unknown forum posters here keep defending lh, when he clearly is no saint, eg: his incidents with Rosberg, and Vettel for example.... he does seem to have a lot of incidents when he is under pressure, unlike when he is walzing around 30 sec lead and a butler to follow, saying oh I wish for some close racing....
when such racing happens... lo and behold... incidents occur, and only through the grace of footmen in the fia is he able to walk away holier than the opponent.
blatant fia favouritism: quoted from masi....
"“I can’t control the actions of the two individuals, only they can,” he told the Daily Mail.

“But within the regulations we have penalties, be it time or grid penalties.

“In addition, the International Sporting Code has provision for the stewards to disqualify a competitor or dock championship points.

“So, yes, Max could be deducted points, as could any team. We hope it isn’t necessary, but it is one of the tools available. I will remind all the teams and drivers of these provisions.”"

Max only......hmmmmmmmmmm

and now tell me fia is not biased towards him..... go on....

[tifosi1993]

It also says a lot when some random and unknown forum posters here keep defending lh, when he clearly is no saint, eg: his incidents with Rosberg, and Vettel for example.... he does seem to have a lot of incidents when he is under pressure, unlike when he is walzing around 30 sec lead and a butler to follow, saying oh I wish for some close racing....
when such racing happens... lo and behold... incidents occur, and only through the grace of footmen in the fia is he able to walk away holier than the opponent.
blatant fia favouritism: quoted from masi....
"“I can’t control the actions of the two individuals, only they can,” he told the Daily Mail.

“But within the regulations we have penalties, be it time or grid penalties.

“In addition, the International Sporting Code has provision for the stewards to disqualify a competitor or dock championship points.

“So, yes, Max could be deducted points, as could any team. We hope it isn’t necessary, but it is one of the tools available. I will remind all the teams and drivers of these provisions.”"

Max only......hmmmmmmmmmm

and now tell me fia is not biased towards him..... go on....

Another one with voices in his head. Sad. Just deflection and full of hatred. If you're gonna write hate mail about Hamilton, then so do but don't respond to my posts.

And since you're a Daily Fail reader, it's not really surprising to see your unhealthy abhorrence toward Hamilton. So stay mad.

[Riccardog]

Another one with voices in his head. Sad. Just deflection and full of hatred. If you're gonna hate mail about Hamilton, then so do but don't respond to my post.

And since you're a Daily Fail reader, it's not really surprising to see your unhealthy abhorrence toward Hamilton. So stay mad.

no response necessary, the quote is from PlanetF1. masi was the one talking to the daily mail, reading glasses necessary?

[tifosi1993]

Mika Hanninen

I don’t believe that Max was ’brake testing’ Lewis in SaudiArabianGP. I want to see the title decided on the basis of pure racing.

https://twitter.com/F1MikaHakkinen/s...21603543207939




Bernie Ecclestone believes Max Verstappen has been forced to fight on several fronts this season, fending off Lewis Hamilton on the track and Mercedes' bullying off it.

https://f1i.com/news/427692-ecclesto...-mercedes.html



Everyone's got an opinion.

Devoted Max fan like yourself should read what Mika actually said.

"Looking at what happened next, I do not believe that Max was ‘brake testing’ Lewis – that is, trying to force a collision which could easily have put both cars out of the race."

So this is what Haikkanen defines as "brake testing". But didn't you say that Ham brake tested Vettel in Baku? But according to Mika's reasoning, that wasn't a brake testing.

So make up your mind man. And you're still ignoring Max's dangerous driving on Ferrari drivers. Plus Eccelestone is nearly 100, current F1 driver's opinions are more worthwhile than that old bag of bones.

[tifosi1993]

no response necessary, the quote is from PlanetF1. masi was the one talking to the daily mail, reading glasses necessary?

What exactly were your response in your initial post, Mr. Daily Fail reader? It was just full of Hamilton hate, whataboutism and deflections. No mention of Max's history of dangerous driving including his erratic moves on Charles and Vettel.

Forget about glasses and get help. But I don't think your abhorrence towards Hamilton has any cure.

[Riccardog]

What exactly were your response in your initial post, Mr. Daily Fail reader? It was just full of Hamilton hate, whataboutism and deflections. No mention of Max's history of dangerous driving including his erratic moves on Charles and Vettel.

Forget about glasses and get help. But I don't think your abhorrence towards Hamilton has any cure.

I only abhor stupidity, and sadly you take the cake, I simply state facts, whereas you attack me personally, puerile and incompetent.

[tifosi1993]

I only abhor stupidity, and sadly you take the cake, I simply state facts, whereas you attack me personally, puerile and incompetent.

Facts!? That FIA is biased towards poor little innocent Max who never did wrong and never driven like a dangerous mad man on track? I guess his moniker "Mad Max" was simply given to him by some rude Max haters! And the FIA had to redefine the rule of "moving under breaking" because of another driver, not Max.

I guess you don't have any mirrors in your house, since you abhor stupidity.

And it is quite expected from a Daily Fail reader to post a long hate filled paragraph about a black sportsman, while completely ignoring Max and his dangerous moves, especially on Ferrari drivers.

[Toothlessrage*]

Ahh.. another beautiful day in this beautiful forum

[Riccardog]

Facts!? That FIA is biased towards poor little innocent Max who never did wrong and never driven like a dangerous mad man on track? I guess his moniker "Mad Max" was simply given to him by some rude Max haters! And the FIA had to redefine the rule of "moving under breaking" because of another driver, not Max.

I guess you don't have any mirrors in your house, since you abhor stupidity.

And it is quite expected from a Daily Fail reader to post a long hate filled paragraph about a black sportsman, while completely ignoring Max and his dangerous moves, especially on Ferrari drivers.

last comment,
yoe racist ****, where have I slated lh for being black...
I find you personally disgusting.

[jgonzalesm6]

Devoted Max fan like yourself should read what Mika actually said.

"Looking at what happened next, I do not believe that Max was ‘brake testing’ Lewis – that is, trying to force a collision which could easily have put both cars out of the race."

So this is what Haikkanen defines as "brake testing". But didn't you say that Ham brake tested Vettel in Baku? But according to Mika's reasoning, that wasn't a brake testing.

So make up your mind man..

I'm just telling you what Mika and Bernie said about Max. Yes, I said Vettel was at fault at Baku just like I believe Lewis was at fault for colliding behind Max.

And you're still ignoring Max's dangerous driving on Ferrari drivers. Plus Eccelestone is nearly 100, current F1 driver's opinions are more worthwhile than that old bag of bones.

Leclerc hit Stroll at Sochi 2020.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qowu3pmtzZE



Leclerc hit Perez at Saudi Arabia 2021.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qu5XMooduqc

[Tifoso Svedese]

My standard is simple:

Baku 2017
Jeddah 2021

Either you think both were brake tests or you think none were. Simple. I'm only happy to call this a brake test had Hammy been punished for his and he wasn't. Yet somehow the British brigade of 'red fans' claim he was innocent on that one. Yikes.

I hope they crash into each other in the final race. Hopefully because Hammy blows it.

[tifosi1993]

I'm just telling you what Mika and Bernie said about Max. Yes, I said Vettel was at fault at Baku just like I believe Lewis was at fault for colliding behind Max.

Your opinion of whom you find "responsible" is not the point, nor it matters. Vettel got penalty for hitting Hamilton, Verstappen received penalty for brake testing Hamilton. And neither Ferrari nor Red Bull submitted any protest. They accepted the decision, because unlike the forum people, they've access to telemetry data. And it clearly showed that Hamilton never brake tested Vettel but Verstappen did brake test Hamilton.

Those are established facts and your opinion isn't. Don't try to paint your own opinions as facts. And handing out a mere 10-seconds penalty for such an offence is an utter travesty.

Leclerc hit Stroll at Sochi 2020.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qowu3pmtzZE

Leclerc hit Perez at Saudi Arabia 2021.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qu5XMooduqc

Another deflection. Are you saying that Charles deserved to get forced out of the track by Max in 2019 because he made contact with Perez in 2020?

Also didn't Charles say after Austria 2019 that he was going to change his "aggression" since Max didn't receive any penalties. Your constant attempt of sugarcoating Max and his driving is quite hilarious.

[SS454]

Are you going to acknowledge Max's dirty driving without resorting to imaginary whataboutism? And do provide your evidence of Hamilton and other drivers "pushing everyone off track".

And rather than spending so much time on worrying about Red Bull and Max, maybe you should pay a little more attention to what other drivers are saying. Both Charles and Norris gave their opinions and it's quite clear that both were pretty annoyed with the FIA and it's stewards are turning blind eyes on Max's dirty driving.

It really says a lot when drivers "joke" about 10-seconds penalty for a grave and reckless offence like brake testing. So it doesn't matter if random and unknown forum posters vociferously defend their idol Max and his dirty driving.

In my post that you quoted, I literally called out Max for his dirty driving against Leclerc in 2019. You just can't help trying to be argumentative.

Also don't ask anyone for proof because it's flooded all over this forum and you refuse to look at it because you like being told what it is, rather than being objective. And when anyone asks you for facts, you ignore it.

[SS454]

And it is quite expected from a Daily Fail reader to post a long hate filled paragraph about a black sportsman, while completely ignoring Max and his dangerous moves, especially on Ferrari drivers.

wow, implying someone is racist with zero cause is a new low for you.

[Silent Bob]

wow, implying someone is racist with zero cause is a new low for you.

Not really, Name calling, personal attacks.. all par for the course with this dude. Can't have a debate without resorting to nastiness. Takes every difference of opinion like it's a personal attack directed at him.
Any wonder why the forum is such a quiet place lately?

[jgonzalesm6]

wow, implying someone is racist with zero cause is a new low for you.

Not really, Name calling, personal attacks.. all par for the course with this dude. Can't have a debate without resorting to nastiness. Takes every difference of opinion like it's a personal attack directed at him.
Any wonder why the forum is such a quiet place lately?

And that's because I defended him for such an act......I take it back.

[tifosi1993]

wow, implying someone is racist with zero cause is a new low for you.

Are you the forum sheriff or do you feel like being called out by post? You're certainly not the former so I guess the reason is the latter.
We already had posters who got suspended for their racist attack against Hamilton, some even wished for his death. So when someone simply ignores the context and writes a long but pointless Hamilton hate letter and quotes Daily Mail, I'm going to call him/her out.

Not really, Name calling, personal attacks.. all par for the course with this dude. Can't have a debate without resorting to nastiness. Takes every difference of opinion like it's a personal attack directed at him.
Any wonder why the forum is such a quiet place lately?

That's because people like you have turned this forum into Red Bull-Verstappen love nest and post nothing but dumb conspiracy theories. MaFIA, Hamilton and Mercedes being blamed for everything wrong in F1 etc etc. There can be no reasonable discussion here. And how can it be when people like yourself turn Max's brake testing and dirty driving into someone else's fault. No wonder why pretty much all the old posters have left this forum and now post on Reddit.

And that's because I defended him for such an act......I take it back.

My knight in shining armor...

You already have a lot in your plate. Defending Max and Red Bull can't be an easy job, but you're doing a good job at being a loyal Red Bull racing foot soldier. Example: posting what Charles did to Perez in 2020 in response to Max's boneheaded driving in Austria 2019, cheering Red Bull's overtake on Ferrari etc etc...

At least I'm not pretending to be a Ferrari fan here.

[Brembo]

Either driver; it doesn't matter; we need a Ferrari podium to finish the season!

[Silent Bob]

Are you the forum sheriff or do you feel like being called out by post? You're certainly not the former so I guess the reason is the latter.
We already had posters who got suspended for their racist attack against Hamilton, some even wished for his death. So when someone simply ignores the context and writes a long but pointless Hamilton hate letter and quotes Daily Mail, I'm going to call him/her out.



That's because people like you have turned this forum into Red Bull-Verstappen love nest and post nothing but dumb conspiracy theories. MaFIA, Hamilton and Mercedes being blamed for everything wrong in F1 etc etc. There can be no reasonable discussion here. And how can it be when people like yourself turn Max's brake testing and dirty driving into someone else's fault. No wonder why pretty much all the old posters have left this forum and now post on Reddit.



My knight in shining armor...

You already have a lot in your plate. Defending Max and Red Bull can't be an easy job, but you're doing a good job at being a loyal Red Bull racing foot soldier. Example: posting what Charles did to Perez in 2020 in response to Max's boneheaded driving in Austria 2019, cheering Red Bull's overtake on Ferrari etc etc...

At least I'm not pretending to be a Ferrari fan here.

Thanks. You just proved my point.
Must be hard getting up every day thinking you're the only true Ferrari supporter. Big load to carry.

[SS454]

Are you the forum sheriff or do you feel like being called out by post? You're certainly not the former so I guess the reason is the latter.
We already had posters who got suspended for their racist attack against Hamilton, some even wished for his death. So when someone simply ignores the context and writes a long but pointless Hamilton hate letter and quotes Daily Mail, I'm going to call him/her out.

So you admit your slanderous comments. Nothing in his post could be considered a hate post, and even if he flat out said he didn't like Lewis, he is allowed. NOTHING was remotely racist, but you are saying he is. Pathetic.