2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix- Race Thread

[Silent Bob]

That's too bad. I think it's only Max's fault because Lewis didn't know he was handing the place back because he wasn't made aware of it by his team whereas Max was notified by his team to let Lewis through. If Lewis had known, he would have been past Max in an instant. DOn't even think the DRS line would have helped Max. If Lewis would have passed him at speed and he was going that slow, there was no way he'd catch him.
I think the bigger transgression were the corners. He was over the line and a little too aggressive a couple of times.

[SS454]

That's too bad. I think it's only Max's fault because Lewis didn't know he was handing the place back because he wasn't made aware of it by his team whereas Max was notified by his team to let Lewis through. If Lewis had known, he would have been past Max in an instant. DOn't even think the DRS line would have helped Max. If Lewis would have passed him at speed and he was going that slow, there was no way he'd catch him.
I think the bigger transgression were the corners. He was over the line and a little too aggressive a couple of times.

Since when do drivers need permission to pass other cars, especially ones that are slowing down?

This "Lewis didn't know what was going on, maybe he thought it was a SC or VSC" is complete nonsense. He had 7 seconds to calculate that Max was slowing down and there was zero signs of a caution. The excuse about not having enough room is garbage too since Lewis clearly has no problem driving cars off the track in battle, yet won't go around when there is more than enough room for a car to go through?

Lewis definitely played a role in causing the crash.

Max was definitely too aggressive at times though.

[Silent Bob]

Ok. So we agree. Regardless Max wasn't going to win this.

[Greig]

Since when do drivers need permission to pass other cars, especially ones that are slowing down?

This "Lewis didn't know what was going on, maybe he thought it was a SC or VSC" is complete nonsense. He had 7 seconds to calculate that Max was slowing down and there was zero signs of a caution. The excuse about not having enough room is garbage too since Lewis clearly has no problem driving cars off the track in battle, yet won't go around when there is more than enough room for a car to go through?

Lewis definitely played a role in causing the crash.

Max was definitely too aggressive at times though.

You probably blamed Michael for hitting JPM in the tunnel at Monaco and DC at Spa also.....

[SS454]

Ok. So we agree. Regardless Max wasn't going to win this.

I made no mention of that, but according to Verstappen his tires were shot at the end, and Lewis had a car that supposedly had 4 tenths worth of damage and still set fast lap by 7 tenths. So with a car 1.1 faster than the best Max could do, yeah I'd say Max wasn't going to win yesterday regardless.

[SS454]

You probably blamed Michael for hitting JPM in the tunnel at Monaco and DC at Spa also.....

Cars weaving and braking behind the safety car is a much different scenario. It is very possible that MSC was partially to blame for what happened in Monaco, but we don't have the footage and data we have now, do we?

DC braking in front of the leader while being lapped in the rain when there is zero viability is also different wouldn't you say?

You just can't admit that Lewis' actions were unnecessary and that he put himself in that position? The truth is both drivers were acting like idiots and playing games because of the DRS line and both are lucky not to have DNF'd, especially Max.

[Cavallino]

I made no mention of that, but according to Verstappen his tires were shot at the end, and Lewis had a car that supposedly had 4 tenths worth of damage and still set fast lap by 7 tenths. So with a car 1.1 faster than the best Max could do, yeah I'd say Max wasn't going to win yesterday regardless.

yep, and fully legal too.

[20000rpm]

Stewards looked at all the telemetry and judged the collision to have been caused by Verstappen and he was found guilty and penalised. Those are the facts

Stewards also had all the data about Silverstone and who initiated the crash. Yet somehow, the FiA scoffed at taking strict action against their fanboy.
While I agree Max has not been a clean driver, the FiA's inconsistencies in handing over penalties proves it. BOT slowing down Max during VSC is another case in point.

[jgonzalesm6]

Stewards looked at all the telemetry and judged the collision to have been caused by Verstappen and he was found guilty and penalised. Those are the facts

Take a good look at this video and you tell me if you believe the "all-mighty" stewards.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmGZWiPa2R8&t=25s

Stewards also had all the data about Silverstone and who initiated the crash. Yet somehow, the FiA scoffed at taking strict action against their fanboy.
While I agree Max has not been a clean driver, the FiA's inconsistencies in handing over penalties proves it. BOT slowing down Max during VSC is another case in point.

+1

Bottas did'nt even get investigated.

[Greig]

Take a good look at this video and you tell me if you believe the "all-mighty" stewards.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmGZWiPa2R8&t=25s



+1

Bottas did'nt even get investigated.

LOL on screen graphics compared to raw telemetry data....I know what I would believe...

Your video creator even says as much himself...

This video was made before the official decision and without the information of the applied Brake pressure. For a normal person like me, the data available for the brakes is just on or off.

What is the rule about VSC I don't think there is any rule about how slow you can go....probably why they did not investigate....

[jgonzalesm6]

LOL on screen graphics compared to raw telemetry data....I know what I would believe...

Your video creator even says as much himself...



What is the rule about VSC I don't think there is any rule about how slow you can go....probably why they did not investigate....

Lewis followed Max for about 5 seconds WHILE BOTH WERE SLOWING DOWN and then Max applied the brakes. Why did'nt Lewis pass Max on either side of the track WHILE MAX WAS SLOWING DOWN???

[Redfive]

The FIA clearly wanted it to go down to the final race, I think they've made that clear in more ways than one with their at times wacky rulings.

I think we all know they'll move heaven and earth to make sure goldenboy gets his 8th. I fully expect it and I'm already preparing for it, ie unfollowing and removing all traces of 'F1' from my twitter account and adding 'F1', 'Hamilton' and '8th title' to my blocked words list.

I intend to block out F1 until next Feb.

[Greig]

Lewis followed Max for about 5 seconds WHILE BOTH WERE SLOWING DOWN and then Max applied the brakes. Why did'nt Lewis pass Max on either side of the track WHILE MAX WAS SLOWING DOWN???

Max still brake tested him, which is why he got a penalty and points on his license. You just want to defend your beloved Max rather than be objective.

[jgonzalesm6]

Max still brake tested him, which is why he got a penalty and points on his license. You just want to defend your beloved Max rather than be objective.

Ridiculous. I would have passed Max a long time ago as Max was slowing down gut I guess you're okay with the decision and with how Lewis handled himself in this particular situation.

[Greig]

Ridiculous. I would have passed Max a long time ago as Max was slowing down gut I guess you're okay with the decision and with how Lewis handled himself in this particular situation.

Lewis slowed and braked indeed, there was no problem until Max decided to brake test him and caused the collision. There is no rule in F1 that you have to pass a slower car.

[jgonzalesm6]

Lewis slowed and braked indeed, there was no problem until Max decided to brake test him and caused the collision. There is no rule in F1 that you have to pass a slower car.

Yeah, I get it.....but in this case, Lewis did'nt pass a slower car for about 5 seconds......so Lewis played followed the leader while both were slowing down.

Go ahead and defend beloved Lewiis rather than be objective.

[Greig]

Yeah, I get it.....but in this case, Lewis did'nt pass a slower car for about 5 seconds......so Lewis played followed the leader while both were slowing down.

Go ahead and defend beloved Lewiis rather than be objective.

Lewis did not need to pass him, there was no problem until the brake check, all on Max. Did you blame Vettel at Baku 17 btw?

[jgonzalesm6]

Lewis did not need to pass him, there was no problem until the brake check, all on Max. Did you blame Vettel at Baku 17 btw?

ummm, Vettel at Baku 2017 was under a VSC or SC or formation lap....not sure...,but everyone in that situation had to play "follow the leader". Nonetheless, Seb was at fault for hitting Lewis.

[JPZ]

Even with penalties and re-passing incidents, I don't think the Red Bull and its tyres had the pace for anything above second place.

Hopefully the car will be better suited for Abu Dhabi.

[sxviper698]

As much as i don't want LH to win his 8th title i don't want redbull either as i think the fix is in with them! A no where engine all of a sudden is competing with Mercedes in 2 seasons when they couldn't keep the pistons in the block! let alone do 5 to 6 races on one unit! Ferrari forever.

[Toothlessrage*]

Lewis slowed and braked indeed, there was no problem until Max decided to brake test him and caused the collision. There is no rule in F1 that you have to pass a slower car.

But, it was confirmed through LH's radio that MV got a call to let LH past. And, Max did just that.
( URL: https://es.motorsport.com/f1/news/ha...-yeda/6859887/ )

In all honesty, RBR and the Mercs have had the rules bent just for better drama.
Though, the Mercs were treated more favorably through the season than RBR.

[Silent Bob]

Lewis slowed and braked indeed, there was no problem until Max decided to brake test him and caused the collision. There is no rule in F1 that you have to pass a slower car.

Well that becomes a conundrum then. If you slow significantly and the other driver doesn't pass, what should you do? I guess you can slow down more and if he still doesn't want to pass then I would think that you now have the right to get back to racing and the other driver has just lost his claim to that place. You can't be expected to come to a standstill and then watch the other driver zip past you and gain a bigger advantage.

[tifosi1993]

What is the rule about VSC I don't think there is any rule about how slow you can go....probably why they did not investigate....

True. The rule says that drivers need to slow down and drive at a reduced pace, at 40% of their normal race pace. The gap between drivers always fluctuates under the VSC.

[tifosi1993]

Well that becomes a conundrum then. If you slow significantly and the other driver doesn't pass, what should you do? I guess you can slow down more and if he still doesn't want to pass then I would think that you now have the right to get back to racing and the other driver has just lost his claim to that place. You can't be expected to come to a standstill and then watch the other driver zip past you and gain a bigger advantage.

The thing is, the FIA have always turned a blind eye on Max's antics. There is a reason for his moniker "Mad Max".

Austria 2019 should’ve been the race where the FIA clamped down on his persistent behaviour of just driving his rivals off track. Instead, the FIA ignored his blatant transgressions every single time. Remember the "moving under braking" rule? That was called the "Max Verstappen rule" because he was doing it over and over and other drivers rightfully complained. The idea that Max can do whatever he wants to take/keep his position anyway is bad for the sport because it makes overtaking and defending way more risky. Since her can just ram you off the road, take the position, and bet on the stewards being too spineless to do anything meaningful about it.

Rules need to enforced and the application of penalties in response to rules being broken needs to be swift and without regard to the consequences. Two races in a row Verstappen took a place/retained a place by going off the track. Obviously going off the track and gaining a place should always be a penalty/give position back.

"Let them race" shouldn't be interpreted as "reckless driving should go unpunished"

[jgonzalesm6]

The thing is, the FIA have always turned a blind eye on Max's antics. There is a reason for his moniker "Mad Max".

Austria 2019 should’ve been the race where the FIA clamped down on his persistent behaviour of just driving his rivals off track. Instead, the FIA ignored his blatant transgressions every single time. Remember the "moving under braking" rule? That was called the "Max Verstappen rule" because he was doing it over and over and other drivers rightfully complained. The idea that Max can do whatever he wants to take/keep his position anyway is bad for the sport because it makes overtaking and defending way more risky. Since her can just ram you off the road, take the position, and bet on the stewards being too spineless to do anything meaningful about it.

Rules need to enforced and the application of penalties in response to rules being broken needs to be swift and without regard to the consequences. Two races in a row Verstappen took a place/retained a place by going off the track. Obviously going off the track and gaining a place should always be a penalty/give position back.

"Let them race" shouldn't be interpreted as "reckless driving should go unpunished"

Silont Bob's debate is what happened at the Jeddah curcuit with regards to Max and Lewis's "brake check" collision. You touched upon it [bolded area] in your response.

It's the manner at which the position was given back.....both slowed down....both slowed down some more...then Max brakes. How much more must Max slow down??? Then later on in the race, Max gave back the position to Lewis a 2nd time whiich he was told on team radio by Horner that he should have not done that.

With regards to Max's antics, he's been penalized more than Lewis in this turbo-hybrid era. There are alot of people that see the FIA bending over for Lewis and Mercedes. Lewis can do no wrong. Lewis clips Max at Copse doing over 180mph(Lewis gets a minor penalty) YET at Hungary Alonso defends Lewis for 10 laps and Lewis says on team radio that it is dangerous at these speeds what Alonso is doing.....really??? After what Lewis did to Max at Copse??? How hypocritical is that.

Then at Jeddah, after Lewis pits under the VSC due to a crash to change tires......then it goes to full course red....Lewis then says the barriers are fine and that the course should not have gone to full course red knowing full well Max gets a FREE pit stop to change tires.

I believe in the "let them race" ideology as long as there is no carnage between the drivers. We have seen in the past, drivers going side-by-side in the corner.....and guess who gets pushed outside???? It happens and mostly every F1 driver has pushed someone outside the track while in the corner.

[jgonzalesm6]

Even with penalties and re-passing incidents, I don't think the Red Bull and its tyres had the pace for anything above second place.

Hopefully the car will be better suited for Abu Dhabi.

NEWS FLASH:

In the latest Formel Schmidt episode, Michael Schmidt said that after the collision with Lewis, Max had a problem with his diffuser, he also had two cuts on his left rear tyre. He was told by his engineer to slow down, hence why he couldn’t aim for fastest lap.

[JPZ]

NEWS FLASH:

In the latest Formel Schmidt episode, Michael Schmidt said that after the collision with Lewis, Max had a problem with his diffuser, he also had two cuts on his left rear tyre. He was told by his engineer to slow down, hence why he couldn’t aim for fastest lap.

Ok, I did not know that.

So his car was damaged in the incident.

[SS454]

Well that becomes a conundrum then. If you slow significantly and the other driver doesn't pass, what should you do? I guess you can slow down more and if he still doesn't want to pass then I would think that you now have the right to get back to racing and the other driver has just lost his claim to that place. You can't be expected to come to a standstill and then watch the other driver zip past you and gain a bigger advantage.

100%

Once it was obvious Lewis chose not to pass, Max should have resumed speed and held the lead. Lewis forfeited his right to go by. You can guarantee the FIA/Stewards would not allow this though since we heard the radio message from Mercedes asking Masi if they can go by, and Masi said yes, and Mercedes demanded that Max slow down to allow it. This after Max already slowed down to let LH by.

[SS454]

LOL on screen graphics compared to raw telemetry data....I know what I would believe...

Your video creator even says as much himself...



What is the rule about VSC I don't think there is any rule about how slow you can go....probably why they did not investigate....

Have you seen the official team's telemetry? Seems like you are choosing to believe what you haven't seen vs what you can to get the result that you want.

There is a rule that you cannot impede another driver. Since it's a very clear rule you can't pass under yellow, you cannot slow down to deliberately impede another driver.

This is from the sporting code:

39.5 No car may be driven unnecessarily slowly, erratically or in a manner which could be deemed potentially dangerous to other drivers or any other person at any time whilst the safety car is deployed. This will apply whether any such car is being driven on the track, the pit entry or the pit lane.


39.7 All competing cars must reduce speed and form up in line behind the safety car no more than ten car lengths apart.


So Bottas was in breach of article 39.5 and Hamilton was in breach of article 39.7

[SS454]

The thing is, the FIA have always turned a blind eye on Max's antics. There is a reason for his moniker "Mad Max".

Austria 2019 should’ve been the race where the FIA clamped down on his persistent behaviour of just driving his rivals off track. Instead, the FIA ignored his blatant transgressions every single time. Remember the "moving under braking" rule? That was called the "Max Verstappen rule" because he was doing it over and over and other drivers rightfully complained. The idea that Max can do whatever he wants to take/keep his position anyway is bad for the sport because it makes overtaking and defending way more risky. Since her can just ram you off the road, take the position, and bet on the stewards being too spineless to do anything meaningful about it.

Rules need to enforced and the application of penalties in response to rules being broken needs to be swift and without regard to the consequences. Two races in a row Verstappen took a place/retained a place by going off the track. Obviously going off the track and gaining a place should always be a penalty/give position back.

"Let them race" shouldn't be interpreted as "reckless driving should go unpunished"

I agree. The FIA keep allowing dirty and bad driving because it's dramatic TV. The move Max put on Leclerc in 2019was BS and maybe that's why Lewis pushes everyone off the track too. You are going to acknowledge when Hamilton and any other driver does it too right?