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Thread: Abu Dhabi 2021 Race Thread

  1. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rishu View Post
    What a botched up race, firstly Hamilton not gaining advantage on Lap 1? I mean really?. And then allowing only 3 cars to unlap and starting the race while those 3 cars not even made to the next sector? Bizarre

    In all honesty Mercedes has right to protest, but this could be said about so many incidents this year. In the end I believe the better driver won WDC while better team won WCC, so all fair in that sense.

    Up next new regs and 2022, Ferrari needs to stand up, it's been a while, we belong at the top rather than discussing Max vs Lewis
    +1
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  2. #332
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    Here is something interesting, the average Safety Car period, excluding ones that had a Red Flag lasted just 3.11 laps in 2021.

    Anyone that thinks this race should have ended under a SC is out of their mind. The SC came out with 5.5 laps remaining, and they had to move 1 car about 30 feet behind a barrier. It's not unreasonable to say there should have been 2 racing laps to finish the race.

  3. #333
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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    So If F1 need a win race director can change the rules ??

    Ok leave LH & max for some time. What if ferrari Charles Leclerc or Sainz were in similar situation fighting for WDC & this happened? Would it be the same opinion ?

    For me this season did set a bad example in terms of rules & reg etc. which should not be Continued like this. Where WDC can be decided by a race director.
    The rules were not changed.

    'Any' does not mean all cars, rules specify priority is for cars are to be removed between leaders.

    And it is up to the discretion of the race director.

    He made the right call, let them race to the end.

  4. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS454 View Post
    So in the eyes of the Lewis Hamilton fan, which you clearly are, you feel that Masi should have had a 5 lap long Safety car and ended the race under caution? Or do you feel that Masi should have restarted the race with lapped cars between Max and Lewis as a nice protection buffer, a call that has NEVER been done all season? Has it ever been done since lapped cars got to go pass? Would it have been okay if Masi released ALL the lapped cars earlier? Would it have been okay if Masi instructed the SC to slow down to release the ALL the lapped cars and we had the exact same result that happened? Seriously, the moment the SC came out were you thinking "okay Masi, make sure you release ALL the lapped cars, otherwise this won't be a fair fight"? I have to believe everyone expected the race to resume with LH P1, and MV P2.

    There are half a dozen scenarios that allow for race to be restarted in the order as it should be, which is LH P1, and MV P2. Lewis was still leading the race right? So how exactly was the race robbed from him? His team could have pitted him to go on new tires if that's your concern. He had the fastest chassis and the more powerful engine with track position, he had the opportunity to defend just as Max had to make the pass cleanly on track.
    You wouldn't find a single post from me where I've said "I want Ham to win the WDC". Unlike you ofcourse, every posts of yours are pretty much Verstappen fan service. And I've said "Verstappen fans", wasn't mentioning you or anything, but you've clearly felt that I was calling you out or something. Pretty much says it all.

    I wouldn't spend too much time with your hyperboles and other mumbo-jumbos. You should ask yourself, why the FIA changed the SF car procedure? Why only the cars between Ham and Max were allowed to unlap? why the cars between Carlos and Verstappen weren't allowed to unlap? Why give one driver a big advantage while seemingly ignoring others? And why the unlapped cars weren't allowed to join the queue?

    The FIA's job is to ensure the safety and make sure that the racing remains fair and authentic. They gave Max the free rein to attack Ham while protecting him from those behind. Why Carlos and those behind him weren't allowed to join the fight between Ham and Max?

    My and majority of F1's concern are quite simple. But those who're blind of Max cool aid can't see it.

  5. #335
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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    Itís the inability to accept their mistake from FIA. Thatís the issue here.

    Yeah i agree with what you said : overturning the decision practically zero. But this will lead to dirty games next year by other teams if itís not corrected. F1 is missing Charlie, his experience would have come into play in such situations.
    Yeah, it feels like arguing with a bunch of kindergarteners here. Can't even articulate one single post without resorting to whataboutism and other silly stuffs.

    The FIA clearly handed Max a huge gift. They cleared the cars between him and his title rival while keeping other lapped cars behind, so that nobody bothers him at the start.

  6. #336
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    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    You wouldn't find a single post from me where I've said "I want Ham to win the WDC". Unlike you ofcourse, every posts of yours are pretty much Verstappen fan service. And I've said "Verstappen fans", wasn't mentioning you or anything, but you've clearly felt that I was calling you out or something. Pretty much says it all.

    I wouldn't spend too much time with your hyperboles and other mumbo-jumbos. You should ask yourself, why the FIA changed the SF car procedure? Why only the cars between Ham and Max were allowed to unlap? why the cars between Carlos and Verstappen weren't allowed to unlap? Why give one driver a big advantage while seemingly ignoring others? And why the unlapped cars weren't allowed to join the queue?

    The FIA's job is to ensure the safety and make sure that the racing remains fair and authentic. They gave Max the free rein to attack Ham while protecting him from those behind. Why Carlos and those behind him weren't allowed to join the fight between Ham and Max?

    My and majority of F1's concern are quite simple. But those who're blind of Max cool aid can't see it.
    So you refuse to answer my questions? I touched on both sides of the argument in my post race review. But answer my questions, and I'll answer anything you want.

    Here's a couple of added points. The average SC length this year has been just over 3 laps, so why did it require 4.5 laps to move 1 car like 30 feet up the track and why were the lapped cars not released sooner?

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    If Ferrari had been in Mercedes' position, do you guys think Binotto would have gone to court? I think he would've let it go, 'for the good of the sport'

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrarichamp View Post
    If Ferrari had been in Mercedes' position, do you guys think Binotto would have gone to court? I think he would've let it go, 'for the good of the sport'
    Lol I agree.
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    Once again congrats to MV and Red Bull, they fought like lions against more powerful Mercedes and against some decisions they ware on Mercedes and LH way! I am not so happy that MV got his 1st, but I am SO HAPPY that LH didn't won!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrarichamp View Post
    If Ferrari had been in Mercedes' position, do you guys think Binotto would have gone to court? I think he would've let it go, 'for the good of the sport'
    Exactly

  11. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by stefa View Post
    Once again congrats to MV and Red Bull, they fought like lions against more powerful Mercedes and against some decisions they ware on Mercedes and LH way! I am not so happy that MV got his 1st, but I am SO HAPPY that LH didn't won!!!
    +1!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by SS454 View Post
    This season has been horribly officiated, perhaps the worst I can remember. How many decisions have gone against Max, or have not gone in a way to hurt Lewis?

    Had Masi not let lapped cars go by, which is standard procedure, it would have been a far bigger controversy.
    Option-1: Red flag & restart last 5laps
    Option-2: follow SC rule procedures & finish it under SC.
    Option-3: let lapped cars be in between leaders & tell them to race. Because all race director wanted is to have a motor racing -> this option would have been controversial.

    What massi did is, first he preferred option -3, later after Communication with RB Horner. He changed decision. So team principles are influencing race director? Is this what is needed in F1?

    How many times did max push other off track & call it as racing? Brazil didnít he get away? Monza? Jeddah?
    Remember racing with Charles 2019, he pushed him off track & won the race did he get penalty?

    There are lot things here & there. Thatís where consistency is missing.

  13. #343
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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    Option-1: Red flag & restart last 5laps
    Option-2: follow SC rule procedures & finish it under SC.
    Option-3: let lapped cars be in between leaders & tell them to race. Because all race director wanted is to have a motor racing -> this option would have been controversial.

    What massi did is, first he preferred option -3, later after Communication with RB Horner. He changed decision. So team principles are influencing race director? Is this what is needed in F1?

    How many times did max push other off track & call it as racing? Brazil didn’t he get away? Monza? Jeddah?
    Remember racing with Charles 2019, he pushed him off track & won the race did he get penalty?

    There are lot things here & there. That’s where consistency is missing.
    Masi was asked if a crash happened in that exact spot if a Red Flag would be thrown, he said no, only a safety car. That incident requires only a SC in every race. Arguing the FIA have changed their procedures doesn't hold much weight if you would like them to change their procedures in other ways.

    Option 4, let the lapped cars go by much sooner. This is a question that Red Bull asked. Even Alonso couldn't believe they were not letting lapped cars go by. The average SC period for 2021 was 3 laps, there is no reason it should take 5.5 laps to remove 1 car less than 50 feet off the track. The standard practice, again that typically happens within 3 laps, is to release the lapped cars.

    One cannot say Lewis was screwed over and then suggest Masi should have decided to screw Max over.

    Toto went on radio telling Masi to not throw a SC during the VSC period because it was obviously hurt his driver. This was far more influencing the Race Director than anything Horner did.

    I think Max pushed drivers off the track several times this season. Imola, Brazil, Monza turn 4. Jeddah he didn't get away with it, in fact he was penalized despite giving the place back twice on 3 attempts.

    Lewis is not innocent here. Monza T1 probably should have been considered a racing incident, but if anyone was at fault it was Lewis but they gave a penalty to Max. Hamilton missed T1 in Jeddah which forced Max off track, and Max was forced to give the position back. Hamilton forced Max off track by deliberately not steering into the corner (like Rosberg in Austria 2016) and got away with it. Hamilton pushed Perez off the track in Turkey and got away with it.

    I'm not sure why people keep bringing up Austria 2019. Is there anyone here that thinks that was a clean pass?

    The point is both drivers have played dirty tricks and have not raced clean and penalties have been all over the place. This is the fault of the FIA and because of their inconsistencies, they put themselves in a lose lose situation in Abu Dhabi. The right call was to let them race the final lap. Everyone expected it, and everyone aside from LH fans wanted it. The FIA's not following their procedures in not allowing the lapped cars to go by, or by allowing only 5 cars to go by was a crappy situation, but a 1 lap shootout is what this season deserved.

    I have yet to hear 1 person that was supporting Lewis admit that Lewis screwed up by leaving the door wide open in T5. Don't blame the rotten luck Lewis had with the SC coming out, don't blame the team for not putting on new tires during VSC or SC, which were the right calls, and don't blame Lewis for not doing a better job defending. Instead blame Masi for letting them race, and instead demand he screws over Max and secures the victory for Lewis. I just do not understand that mentality.

  14. #344
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    Could only imagine if the ending was reversed and it was Lewis who got the win, those defending it so stoutly today would be throwing out the tv and never watching F1 again

    Massi made a complete mess of it. Letting lapped cars unlap themselves is not a rule its up to the race director, but we have never seen just a select few cars being allowed to unlap themselves.
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  15. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    How many times did max push other off track & call it as racing? Brazil didn’t he get away? Monza? Jeddah?
    Remember racing with Charles 2019, he pushed him off track & won the race did he get penalty?

    There are lot things here & there. That’s where consistency is missing.
    Almost every F1 driver has "pushed" someone off the track exiting the corner when it is wheel-to-wheel racing for as long as F1 has been around. Rosberg said it best in the pre-race commentary when he said something to the effect of "How do you officiate this procedure??" "Does the guy in front (in the lead by an inch or half a car length at that exact moment) have "the right of way" while going into and exiting the corner??? Again, this is wheel-to-wheel racing.

    I don't believe in dive-bombimg the corner at high rate of speed thereby causing a collision.....this is obviously a blatant attempt and deserves a penalty.

    Max is very aggressive in these attempts and he's not backing down....at least not with Lewis. Max has a Senna-esque character on the track in the corners.

    Have I seen F1 drivers going wheel-to-wheel going into and exiting the corner or corners wihile both stay within the white lines of either side of the track....absolutely.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  16. #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post

    Massi made a complete mess of it. Letting lapped cars unlap themselves is not a rule its up to the race director, but we have never seen just a select few cars being allowed to unlap themselves.
    I think given that there was only 1 lap left remaining is the reason why Masi let 5 cars (the ones between Max and Lewis) go by to unlap themselves. Had there been more laps left, I'm sure Masi would have let ALL cars unlap themselves.

    I would'nt be surprised once Lewis found out the SC would be on track that Lewis slowed down significantly to allow the unlapped cars to get behind him to create a "buffer" between himself and Max.......but we will never know this. It's smart for Lewis's standpoint.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

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    Mercedes had completely "shut-down" or turned silent on their social meda page.

    Other than Lewis and his father, Toto Wolff is a sore loser and claseless....to include the teams his engines operates.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

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    One thing for sure is that Netflix has brought so many new fans to the sport who know absolutely nothing about it. All they see is Hamilton always winning and assume it should always be that way. The British media furthers the cause with painting Hamilton as a god and Verstappen as the devil. This morning on a Canadian radio station, the morning host actually said ďVerstappen illegally changed his tires during the safety car and asked how was that fairĒ. Seriously!! This is the kind of mentality F1 is dealing with now with its sudden influx of fans. They donít know the rules at all yet want to defend the Hollywood star. This silly season of inconsistency did nothing to help the average fan understand the sport either. The rules are changed and bent regularly and most decisions are not clear and can be interpreted many ways. Last thing I will say is that Mercedes and Hamilton have polarized the sport. Maybe itís a result of social media, who knows.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    I think given that there was only 1 lap left remaining is the reason why Masi let 5 cars (the ones between Max and Lewis) go by to unlap themselves. Had there been more laps left, I'm sure Masi would have let ALL cars unlap themselves.

    I would'nt be surprised once Lewis found out the SC would be on track that Lewis slowed down significantly to allow the unlapped cars to get behind him to create a "buffer" between himself and Max.......but we will never know this. It's smart for Lewis's standpoint.
    Yeah that was the reason, still does not make it right. When the SC is on track they all have to slow down Lewis had no control of who would be behind him as a buffer considering normally the unlapped cars get to go around anyway.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrarichamp View Post
    If Ferrari had been in Mercedes' position, do you guys think Binotto would have gone to court? I think he would've let it go, 'for the good of the sport'
    Maybe. Ferrari make high end cars, their customer base mainly high end business people who would not appreciate the mess of going to court, it effects brand image. Wolfe is somewhat autonomous but if this impacts the Merc brand the boss of Merc will make Wolfe pull out of these court cases. In 2019 Wolfe would not stop with the insults over Ferrari's engine deal with FIA. Head of Exor spoke to head of Merc as was bad for the Ferrari brand and Wolfe was told to shut up. Binotto or any Ferrari team boss does not have the power Wolfe is allowed at Merc (Todt did back in the day) so 100 percent Ferrari would not make this a messy situation if they were in Mercs shoes....this is if course purely MY OPINION and in no way a fact.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    Yeah that was the reason, still does not make it right. .
    Well, according to the rule book.....it does. ANY in the rule book under said article does not mean ALL unlapped cars.

    Mercedes is taking it to court but I don't believe they have a leg to stand on.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  22. #352
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    Quote Originally Posted by 330 p4 View Post
    Maybe. Ferrari make high end cars, their customer base mainly high end business people who would not appreciate the mess of going to court, it effects brand image. Wolfe is somewhat autonomous but if this impacts the Merc brand the boss of Merc will make Wolfe pull out of these court cases. In 2019 Wolfe would not stop with the insults over Ferrari's engine deal with FIA. Head of Exor spoke to head of Merc as was bad for the Ferrari brand and Wolfe was told to shut up. Binotto or any Ferrari team boss does not have the power Wolfe is allowed at Merc (Todt did back in the day) so 100 percent Ferrari would not make this a messy situation if they were in Mercs shoes....this is if course purely MY OPINION and in no way a fact.
    Ferrari's F1 car's and what happens to them on or off the track do not impact Ferrari's production car business. No one buys a Ferrari production car because "Ferrari F1 is winning"?????
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  23. #353
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    Quote Originally Posted by stefa View Post
    Once again congrats to MV and Red Bull, they fought like lions against more powerful Mercedes and against some decisions they ware on Mercedes and LH way! I am not so happy that MV got his 1st, but I am SO HAPPY that LH didn't won!!!
    Exactly, bad enough that he equaled Michael on 7 wdc,s; I could not bare to see Luise surpass that record...
    Michael fought hard for those championships with more teams being competitive and able to fight for the same championship....whereas Luise had them handed on a platter, at least for 2 of them.....as arguably 17 and 18 with a bit more luck and less mistakes from both Seb and the team could have been ours
    Glad 2021 is over, another winless season....but at least we beat McLaren.....Hopefully we'll be up there fighting for wins in 2022.

  24. #354
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Well, according to the rule book.....it does. ANY in the rule book under said article does not mean ALL unlapped cars.

    Mercedes is taking it to court but I don't believe they have a leg to stand on.

    LOL what.....any car lapped includes all the cars lapped....we have never seen a select number being allowed to unlap and others not.
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    Hamilton's radio was released from the last lap. Unbelievably he said "the race is being manipulated"!! Really LuLu? I guess he would know, he should be an expert on race manipulation over the last 8 years of only 1 car and 1 team being allowed to win and benefit.
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  26. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    LOL what.....any car lapped includes all the cars lapped....we have never seen a select number being allowed to unlap and others not.
    That's for the lawyers to decide.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  27. #357
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    That's for the lawyers to decide.
    Quite easy to decide then, any lapped cars means them all if they are lapped.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    I think Masi's departure will be one of the most positive aspect in F1. He shouldn't have involved himself directly in the WDC fight. He has broken the FIA's own rulebook and decided the outcome of the 2021 WDC.

    And as for those die-hard Verstappen fans here, don't worry. Max will remain the WDC because chances of the results being overturned are practically zero. But still going through the process vindicates Mercedes into believing that Hamilton was screwed over and there needs to be punishment for the FIA on this one.

    Otherwise more stuff like this will keep happening and one day Ferrari will be at the receiving end.
    That's a bold assumption. Based on the last decade and a half, I'd say the chances of Ferrari being on the receiving end of a title decider are pretty slim.

    Quote Originally Posted by ntukza View Post
    Lewis did.
    Only AFTER his daddy told him to. The guy is 36 but acts like a baby and needs a talking to from daddy in order to stop being a petulant little B.

    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    So If F1 need a win race director can change the rules ??

    Ok leave LH & max for some time. What if ferrari Charles Leclerc or Sainz were in similar situation fighting for WDC & this happened? Would it be the same opinion ?

    For me this season did set a bad example in terms of rules & reg etc. which should not be Continued like this. Where WDC can be decided by a race director.
    There is enough evidence to suggest that the last 7 titles have been decided by the FIA giving preferential treatment to one team over all others. How is this ANY different? It's just F1. Not really a sport anymore, it's "entertainment". Personally, I liked this episode, screw the Affirmative Action "champion"

    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    Could only imagine if the ending was reversed and it was Lewis who got the win, those defending it so stoutly today would be throwing out the tv and never watching F1 again

    Massi made a complete mess of it. Letting lapped cars unlap themselves is not a rule its up to the race director, but we have never seen just a select few cars being allowed to unlap themselves.
    And if my grandma had balls she'd be my grandfather. Who cares about ifs. Hamilton lost, we should all rejoice in that. The FIA has helped Lewis plenty.
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  29. #359
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS454 View Post
    So you refuse to answer my questions? I touched on both sides of the argument in my post race review. But answer my questions, and I'll answer anything you want.

    Here's a couple of added points. The average SC length this year has been just over 3 laps, so why did it require 4.5 laps to move 1 car like 30 feet up the track and why were the lapped cars not released sooner?
    I refuse to answer your imaginary scenarios. My focus is on the reality, what has had actually taken place yesterday and not some hyperbole "woulda coulda shoulda".

    Again, only the cars between Ham and Max were allowed to unlap. But those unlapped cars weren't allowed to join the queue which is another breach of the 30-year old SC procedure. The FIA allowed Max to attack Ham while safeguarding him from Carlos and Co. behind. Feel free to point out any disparities/factually incorrect statement.

    The FIA have deliberately changed the SC rule for Max's benefit only. And shouldn't happened in any rule based sports.

    And you've been going on about your SC number. Where did you pulled that number from I wonder, do provide your source here. And since you're a number guy, what's the average SC length when the track being cleared of a stranded/crashed car? Because I would like to compare yesterday's SC length with others when there was a crashed car being cleared.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    Quite easy to decide then, any lapped cars means them all if they are lapped.
    Yup, Mercedes lawyers will have a field day with this one. Even if you allowed one car to be unlapped, then that car must join the queue and only then the race can resume.

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