+1, and whose idea was it to travel from Brazil to Abu Dhabi with a double-header, within a week. Bonkers.Originally Posted by Liscia
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+1, and whose idea was it to travel from Brazil to Abu Dhabi with a double-header, within a week. Bonkers.
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Ciao wisepie! Another fine example of f1diocy!
Ferrari Affiliate
Budget cap is just a pathetic attempt of "creating competition" (sic.) between teams that , quite honestly, realistically speaking, in real world should not exist.
In the real world you will never see Ferrari , Mercedes and RBR compete in same terms with the likes of say HAAS.
They simply don't have the same resources , and they never will.
There is zero sense forcing the three big teams to compete with one hand tied behind their back (ie. using 145 mil out whatever they could) just so they play fair (lol) against the smaller teams.
How did that turn out? Question (lol)
Oh I know, RBR first, Ferrari second, Merc three , and even if RBR did not overspend, even then, maybe , if we had our act together (pitwall), it would be Ferrari first, RBR second, Merc third.
So , this whole budget cap is what? exercise to futility?? Trying to make mechanics bust their heads as to work with less money?
Having drama like the one we have right now?
Adding more accountants (I bet RBR has an army)?
I would not mind if FIA called it quits in 2 years' time. It's a stupidity of epic propotions.
F1 IS an elit game. Do you have the money to be in it? Do you have the bones for it?
Come on in.
You don't ? Oh well.
"If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve
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Ciao Liscia, and yes, now even more ridiculously complicated rules and regs tweaks for 2023, even we die-hard fans can't keep up. Mind you, I'm ancient enough for the brain cells not to be at full strength.
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I've never had much time for contrived and silly nonsense rules myself and guess our ages are proof that as you gain years you lose patience?
Certainly true in my case!
Last edited by Liscia; 20th October 2022 at 17:27.
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Drivers who are told what to do and when for sure have a tough race ahead of them. Charles and Max reached their success doing what they on the track felt had to do to win. Both top drivers for sure. But the drivers pay is a sure incentive to get out there anyway! I always admire how Charles is so into whats going on in the pits etc. during each practice.
Salut Gilles
https://twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/s...64967020527617
The FIA has made an offer to Red Bull for the terms of an "accepted breach agreement" for them breaching the cost cap. Details, as with all issues on this matter, are confidential for now. Now Red Bull have to decide whether to accept or go before an adjudication panel
Forza Ferrari
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Can you say Ferrari 2019 2.0???
It's not how start but how you finish.
Ferrari Affiliate
Will they be snail slow for the next 2 years?
"If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve
\m/HEAVY METAL\m/
Off course not!
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No, that's only applied on ferrari
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It will, I'm sure, be a fix and the cost cap will be dead. Because if it's a small penalty, everyone will cheat.
Only way to stop the cheating will be a substantial fine, cost cap reduction for next year and a 25 point penalty for each driver in the DC applied in advance of 2023 for the offenders.
Trying to be less angry..
Ferrari Affiliate
Fine would not really do something unless it was like in the hundreds of millions.
Cost cap reduction, sure, instead of 140mn. , the punished team should be able to spend say 100mn, that would hurt - add to this an oversight - ie. heavy monitoring over their expenses, an auditor of sorts, see how THAT hurts.
Especially if that auditor is there not for one, but say why not for 3 seasons.
And of course, reduce the use of anything that has to do with working with aerodynamics. Not necessarily way too much, but enough to make it hurt.
Now, set the aforementioned in stone, regardless of how much you go over the budget limits or say if you go over 500k and forward, see if the teams will think twice bout bending the rules ;)
"If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve
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I sense a RB "plea bargain" in the making after which business as unusual for them?
\m/HEAVY METAL\m/
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'For the good of the sport.'
Red Is The Color!
Red Bull: F1 team receive $7m fine & 10% aero research reduction
Red Bull have been hit with a $7m (£6.07m) fine and a 10% reduction in permitted aerodynamic research for breaking Formula 1's budget cap.
Governing body the FIA said that Red Bull had overspent by £1.86m in 2021.
Their financial punishment is not a reduction in their permitted spend next year, when the budget cap is $135m.
The 10% cut is in the time they can spend using their wind tunnel or computational fluid dynamics to design their car.
The punishment comes after Red Bull acknowledged they were at fault and entered into a so-called "accepted breach agreement" with the FIA.
The FIA had previously said only that Red Bull had committed a "minor" breach, which is anything up to 5% of the cap, or $7.25m in 2021, when Max Verstappen won his first title, with no further details.
A statement by the FIA detailing Red Bull's errors said the team had "inaccurately excluded and/or adjusted costs amounting to a total of £5,607,000" in 2021.
The team's overspend breach of relevant costs adjusted by the FIA was £1,864,000.
This amounts to an understatement of accounts of nearly 5% and an adjusted overspend of 1.6%.
A total of 13 points of non-compliance included an understatement related to their new power-unit business and fixed costs, and costs relevant to catering, social security, apprenticeships, inventory (unused parts) and non-F1 activities.
The fine has to be paid within the next 30 days.
The FIA said that had Red Bull applied the correct treatment to a notional tax credit, the team would have exceeded the cap by only £432,652.
Meanwhile, Aston Martin have been fined $450,000 (£388,200) for a procedural breach of the financial regulations.
The FIA said Aston Martin were within the cap but had misreported 12 different items, including the costs of their new factory, wind tunnel and simulator.
Will the penalty have an effect?
Red Bull already had the lowest permitted aerodynamic research time for the first half of 2023 as a result of winning this year's championship.
Last year, F1 introduced a sliding scale of aerodynamic restrictions in an attempt to close up the field, giving the lowest team in the championship the most research time and the highest the least.
Rival teams will have questions as to whether the punishment is appropriate, particularly over whether the fine will have any effect on a vastly wealthy global corporation, and also as to why the amounts published are different from those that were doing the rounds of the F1 paddock at last weekend's US Grand Prix.
They will also likely point out that the areas of the overspend are irrelevant because they, too, could have chosen to spend more in such areas, but that would have meant spending less on engineering and car design.
Wow, just wow, Ferrari and Mercedes should do the same for next year, unbelievable!!!
Red is the only color!!!
Full Member
FIAsco fine on RB is chicken feed that they will easily offset with even more creative accounting. As to the reduction of
windtunnel time exactly how is that enforced? Does FIAsco have full-time monitoring ala IAEA? Without that it's a joke.
Full Member
So Aston Martin build new factory, wind tunnel, and simulator. Then lie about how much it costs. Get caught but only get a $450k fine?
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So Red Bull gets $7 million fine and 10% less wind tunnel time/aero testing for 12 months starting from today.
Thoughts?
Last edited by JPZ; 29th October 2022 at 05:23.
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the fine is a a joke.
Less aero testing is significant and will definitely hurt them if and only if it is policed correctly and efficiently.
Jean Todt - LEGEND!
Alonso stirring the pot again:
"Formula 1 is not a sport anymore” - Fernando Alonso
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he also tweeted this.....
And again…
Please, all the titles are amazing, well deserved and inspiring. Incomparable to each other and let’s enjoy champions and legends of our current time. Tired of the continuous search for headlines . Let's enjoy them!
It's not how start but how you finish.
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Speaking facts once again. Also firing salt at Hamilton once again lol.
Skysport throwing hate towards Alonso should be coming asap.
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Italian Newspaper Corriere della Sera reports that Bernie Ecclestone was involved in negotiating a penalty for Red Bull’s cost cap breach.
He is a good friend of Christian Horner and Mohammed Ben Sulayem, so both parties were happy about having Ecclestone involved.
Full Member
Ferrari preparing for 2023 F1 season ‘by doing things correctly’ amid budget cap rules
In 2022, Red Bull was able to overturn a championship that had not started in an ideal way for them, but the Austrian side gradually introduced updates that allowed the RB18 above all to lose weight, with continuous and extensive work on the floor of the car, on the sidepods and on the engine cover to improve its aerodynamic efficiency since the Bahrain Grand Prix.
Ferrari boss Mattia Binotto has repeatedly invited the FIA to be diligent and pay close attention when performing the checks on the budget cap limits, comments made by the Maranello team principal long before this matter appeared in Singapore, regarding the financial rules for 2021.
Mercedes has also introduced a lot of updates on their W13 during the season, just like Red Bull. In a press conference at the end of the Mexican Grand Prix, Mattia Binotto, when asked about Mercedes expenses potentially being above the budget cap, he replied as following: “I don’t know how to answer and I don’t want to have any doubts. We leave these checks to the FIA. Or rather we hope it will not be necessary to wait until October 2023 to know the truth about 2022. For us I can guarantee that we are preparing for the 2023 season by doing things correctly.”
https://scuderiafans.com/ferrari-pre...ovKU43sDm_7Dko
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Binotto said things at the beginning of the championship that make us think he had no faith in winning this year
He was thinking about reliability for sure, maybe porpoising too
I think they put their money in the 2023's car instead of updating the 2022's one
It could also explain why he cut off Charles' hope in this way
3 years of frustration to get back to top, if this is the plan, it’s still tough for everyone
It can also mean that 2022 was the opportunity to exist for Carlos and satisfy Santander, because next year, the team will be with Charles
I had already mentioned these hypothesis, because if Binotto is bad in managing people, i can't imagine he can be that bad without a kind of hidden logic behind it
Last edited by Gilles; 1st November 2022 at 19:36.
Banned
It’s been 14 years of frustration and Ferrari are still not at the top.
Binotto is a hack. In 2023 he will be talking about 2024. He is that bad, without any kind of logic. He isn’t playing 4D chess, he is barely able to play checkers.
Banned
Binotto is an engineer, so this logical thinking isn't out of reach. 2023 is the year, no excuses anymore. To be able to fight with RB/Max, we have to be all in on Charles.
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Morto Mauro Forghieri Jan. 13, 1935 - Nov. 2, 2022.......RIP
It's not how start but how you finish.
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