2022 F1 news/rumours

**FerrariF60** · 26th November 2022, 19:05

Originally Posted by Greig

Toto will never be replaced right....even Todt got replaced whats your point?

Todt did not get sacked, he retired I’m afraid

**jgonzalesm6** · 26th November 2022, 19:05

Originally Posted by Greig

See how long "happy" lasts when they are not winning.....

Like when Toto wasn't winning pre-turbo-hybrid era?

Or how bout Horner when he wasn't winning during the turbo-hybrid era from 2014 thru 2020?

Yeah, don't compare Mercedes and Redbull upper management with Ferrari upper management. Ferrari is quite different.....and not for the better.

**Greig** · 26th November 2022, 19:15

Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6

Like when Toto wasn't winning pre-turbo-hybrid era?

Or how bout Horner when he wasn't winning during the turbo-hybrid era from 2014 thru 2020?

Yeah, don't compare Mercedes and Redbull upper management with Ferrari upper management. Ferrari is quite different.....and not for the better.

Brawn was there till end of 2013.....

Merc and Red Bull are more likely to just stop being in F1 once the winning dries up....

**Gilles** · 27th November 2022, 12:18

Not unhappy to see that Ferrari will get rid of the liar Binotto, it destabilizes the team, but we can’t continue like this, there has already been too much waste, it is not possible to continue
As I already said, support against all logic, Sainz (development of the car in its favor, refusal to give Charles the status of first driver at the time it becomes necessary), support Rueda and Marcos (the latter is a real scourge) are serious mistakes towards Ferrari
Binotto had time to correct his mistakes, but he preferred to lie and do unfortunate analyses and even to say everything crazy
Ferrari does not belong to him and he will learn it
So I’d like to ask you Greg, who has me as well as other members, said that criticizing the team showed us that we weren’t fans of the team, that we should join a fan club of Charles: Greg, how do you feel, you who is authorized to tell us what we are, what we are not, you who has the monopoly of the liturgy of the fan and who allows you the right of anathema?
You point the finger like Binotto does, but Ferrari proves you wrong, don't you think?

Give the kid a TP

**brucewayne** · 27th November 2022, 12:26

Originally Posted by Gilles

Not unhappy to see that Ferrari will get rid of the liar Binotto, it destabilizes the team, but we can’t continue like this, there has already been too much waste, it is not possible to continue
As I already said, support against all logic, Sainz (development of the car in its favor, refusal to give Charles the status of first driver at the time it becomes necessary), support Rueda and Marcos (the latter is a real scourge) are serious mistakes towards Ferrari
Binotto had time to correct his mistakes, but he preferred to lie and do unfortunate analyses and even to say everything crazy
Ferrari does not belong to him and he will learn it
So I’d like to ask Greg, who has me as well as other members, said that criticizing the team showed us that we weren’t fans of the team, that we should join a fan club of Charles: Greg, How do you feel, you who is authorized to tell us what we are, what we are not, you who has the monopoly of the liturgy of the fan and who allows you the right of anathema?
You point the finger like Binotto does, but Ferrari herself proves you wrong, don't you think?

Give the kid a TP

Imagine developing the car in favor of Sainz, only to see him get slapped by Charles in AD, despite having a fresher PU and the favorable strategy. What a catastrophic mistake, especially in times of a budget cap. And when we think about Monaco, Silverstone and Hungary, it's just not acceptable anymore.

**Greig** · 27th November 2022, 12:27

Why do you care what I think so much? Ferrari does not belong to anyone not even Charles.

You are not the first ever "driver" of Ferrari fan.......

**Greig** · 27th November 2022, 12:36

Originally Posted by brucewayne

Imagine developing the car in favor of Sainz, only to see him get slapped by Charles in AD, despite having a fresher PU and the favorable strategy. What a catastrophic mistake, especially in times of a budget cap. And when we think about Monaco, Silverstone and Hungary, it's just not acceptable anymore.

Probably because they never developed the car for Sainz....

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/sa...rari/10385902/

**brucewayne** · 27th November 2022, 13:13

Originally Posted by Greig

Probably because they never developed the car for Sainz....

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/sa...rari/10385902/

The focus was to make Carlos more comfortable. Weirdly Charles was happy at the beginning of the year, later it was the other way around. But Ferrari always finds a way to regress during a season. Other teams find ways to improve the car according to the preferences of their No.1 driver. And the result is, RB did beat us and it was not even close. We nearly lost P2 to in the WDC and WCC. But it seems it finally sunk in. Lessons learned!

**tifosi1993** · 27th November 2022, 13:18

People put way too much emphasis on individual abilities. Binotto isn't Newey, his departure isn't going to make any big difference. Cowell, Lowe, Costa none of these masterminds of Mercedes domination are in F1 right now. Their departure didn't make any major discrepancies.

Binotto is a terrible TP. His people skills are subpar and isn't as shrewd as Horner/Toto at playing the political game.

He was wagging his finer at Charles while always defending the Rueda circus. Hallmark of a terrible TP, as well as an ego maniac.

If he doesn't accept his demotion, then he should be kicked out of Ferrari. "Keep me as the TP or I'll leave" - show the door to this clown.

**Greig** · 27th November 2022, 13:18

Originally Posted by brucewayne

The focus was to make Carlos more comfortable. Weirdly Charles was happy at the beginning of the year, later it was the other way around. But Ferrari always finds a way to regress during a season. Other teams find ways to improve the car according to the preferences of their No.1 driver. And the result is, RB did beat us and it was not even close. We nearly lost P2 to in the WDC and WCC. But it seems it finally sunk in. Lessons learned!

No that was not the focus, you also make it sound like Red Bull were in the midfield at the start of the season....trying to create drama over nearly losing P2 is awesome tho, you were probably upset we never lost it just so you could moan about it

**Greig** · 27th November 2022, 13:19

Originally Posted by tifosi1993

People put way too much emphasis on individual abilities. Binotto isn't Newey, his departure isn't going to make any big difference. Cowell, Lowe, Costa none of these masterminds of Mercedes domination are in F1 right now. Their departure didn't make any major discrepancies.

Binotto is a terrible TP. His people skills are subpar and isn't as shrewd as Horner/Toto at playing the political game.

He was wagging his finer at Charles while always defended the Rueda circus. Hallmark of a terrible TP, as well as an ego maniac.

If he doesn't accept his demotion, then he should be kicked out of Ferrari. "Keep me as the TP or I'll leave" - show the door to this clown.

He has been at Ferrari for 30 years probably before you were born judging by your tantrums, they know his worth. How about you show some respect.

**tifosi1993** · 27th November 2022, 13:23

Originally Posted by brucewayne

The focus was to make Carlos more comfortable. Weirdly Charles was happy at the beginning of the year, later it was the other way around. But Ferrari always finds a way to regress during a season. Other teams find ways to improve the car according to the preferences of their No.1 driver. And the result is, RB did beat us and it was not even close. We nearly lost P2 to in the WDC and WCC. But it seems it finally sunk in. Lessons learned!

Charles also said the same in his interview. The car had a strong front end at the start but later developed into being more understeery.

And even making the car more understeery didn't "help" Sainz in the end. Still got thrashed and was fortunate enough to finish in P5, thanks to Hamilton's retirement at the last race.

**Greig** · 27th November 2022, 13:24

Originally Posted by tifosi1993

Charles also said the same in his interview. The car had a strong front end at the start but later developed into being more understeery.

And even making the car more understeery didn't "help" Sainz in the end. Still got thrashed and was fortunate enough to finish in P5, thanks to Hamilton's retirement at the last race.

Ferrari decided to make the car like that or the TD was the reason.....big difference.

**tifosi1993** · 27th November 2022, 13:28

Originally Posted by Greig

He has been at Ferrari for 30 years probably before you were born judging by your tantrums, they know his worth. How about you show some respect.

Which again highlights Binotto's incompetence. Learned nothing from Jean Todt/Ross Brawn at how to manage a F1 team properly.

He's a good engineer and a terrible team principal. Initiated a civil war to get the TP job and doing a terrible job ever since. Binotto, as a team principal, will never get any respect from me.

**brucewayne** · 27th November 2022, 13:29

Originally Posted by tifosi1993

Charles also said the same in his interview. The car had a strong front end at the start but later developed into being more understeery.

And even making the car more understeery didn't "help" Sainz in the end. Still got thrashed and was fortunate enough to finish in P5, thanks to Hamilton's retirement at the last race.

Exactly. Great drivers can live with a strong front end, average drivers not so much.

**tifosi1993** · 27th November 2022, 13:35

Originally Posted by Greig

Ferrari decided to make the car like that or the TD was the reason.....big difference.

There was no "TD39" floor at SPA, and after SPA. Ferrari introduced a floor modification in France and kept it till the end. In smooth tracks they were competitive, in bumpy tracks and high-altitude tracks, they were poor.

All the developments Ferrari brought this year have made the car balance more understeery. After Australia Charles was ahead by 46 points, any competent TP would've thrown in the gauntlet and made the car more of his liking.

And naturally, an oversteery car balance is always faster than an understeery balance.

**brucewayne** · 27th November 2022, 13:36

Originally Posted by Greig

No that was not the focus, you also make it sound like Red Bull were in the midfield at the start of the season....trying to create drama over nearly losing P2 is awesome tho, you were probably upset we never lost it just so you could moan about it

Creating drama? Yeah, if you regress from having the best car to being slower in comparison to RB and Mercedes. If you are ok with regress, that's on you. You should support McLaren in this case. You don't seem to be too upset that we lost another developing battle during a season.

**tifosi1993** · 27th November 2022, 13:38

Originally Posted by brucewayne

Exactly. Great drivers can live with a strong front end, average drivers not so much.

Dealing with the oversteer has always been the hallmark of great drivers. They can throw the car around corners and deal with the snaps at the rear.

**Greig** · 27th November 2022, 13:39

Originally Posted by brucewayne

Creating drama? Yeah, if you regress from having the best car to being slower in comparison to RB and Mercedes. If you are ok with regress, that's on you. You should support McLaren in this case. You don't seem to be too upset that we lost another developing battle during a season.

Ah so Red Bull were not quick at the start of the season now? I am not upset at stopping developing this year to focus on next when the title was long gone, why would you not want us to focus on 2023 rather than develop for a meaningless battle for P2?

You seem to think instant success or nothing, clearly you are the one who should support the winning team.

**brucewayne** · 27th November 2022, 13:51

Originally Posted by Greig

Ah so Red Bull were not quick at the start of the season now? I am not upset at stopping developing this year to focus on next when the title was long gone, why would you not want us to focus on 2023 rather than develop for a meaningless battle for P2?

You seem to think instant success or nothing, clearly you are the one who should support the winning team.

I am supporting Ferrari since 1996, what are you talking about? Instant success?

So you are ok to loose couple of tenths while developing? We were already miles away in Spa, and we didn't shift our focus to 2023 at this time. This should have been a fight for the title until the end of the year. We do have big problems in inseason developing since 2017. If we don't improve in this area, we won't win anything in the next years. If you want to focus on next years car at the middle of the year year in year out, you should support McLaren.

**brucewayne** · 27th November 2022, 13:53

Originally Posted by tifosi1993

Dealing with the oversteer has always been the hallmark of great drivers. They can throw the car around corners and deal with the snaps at the rear.

It seems this info got lost with some people.

**Greig** · 27th November 2022, 13:56

Originally Posted by brucewayne

I am supporting Ferrari since 1996, what are you talking about? Instant success?

So you are ok to loose couple of tenths while developing? We were already miles away in Spa, and we didn't shift our focus to 2023 at this time. This should have been a fight for the title until the end of the year. We do have big problems in inseason developing since 2017. If we don't improve in this area, we won't win anything in the next years. If you want to focus on next years car at the middle of the year year in year out, you should support McLaren.

Tech Directive mean anything to you? Engines not at full power register anything in that brain of yours? Ferrari's aim this year was to be competitive considering where we had been the years before, and that was done. It was never going to be a over night change of fortunes no matter how much you stamp your feet and demand it. Lucky for you starting in 96 just as it got good, you would probably have demanded Todt to be sacked before the team got to where they were going.....

You should support Merc already if in-season development is what does it for you.

Merc got closer to Ferrari and Red Bull, but end of day still ended up 3rd much to your disappointment. Maybe they can do better next year for you.

**brucewayne** · 27th November 2022, 14:06

Originally Posted by Greig

Tech Directive mean anything to you?

You should support Merc already if in-season development is what does it for you.

Merc got closer to Ferrari and Red Bull, but end of day still ended up 3rd much to your disappointment. Maybe they can do better next year for you.

I am disappointed that we didn't win the WCC and WDC, you seem to be disappointed that we didn't start to develop the car for 2023 earlier. As you don't seem to think in season development is important, you don't seem to care if Ferrari is winning a title in the future.

We already lost ground before the TD. I am not even mentioning our missing political power and catastrophic mistakes. 4/22 wins, you seem to be ok with that. Many great wins for Ferrari which we were not able to achieve.

**Greig** · 27th November 2022, 14:54

Don't think we had really lost ground before Spa, Silverstone, Austria and France were good, Hungary a mess but our pace was not the issue there so not quite sure why you would be saying that other than to try and make stuff up as it suits your point? our development up to the TD was just fine. You seem to hinge your success on wins and only wins while I realise Ferrari were coming from way behind and it's very hard in F1 to go from miles behind to title winning.

Ferrari don't have devine right to win every season and they need to work for it just like the rest, I can see progress if you can't then so be it you won't change my mind.

**brucewayne** · 27th November 2022, 16:56

Originally Posted by Greig

Don't think we had really lost ground before Spa, Silverstone, Austria and France were good, Hungary a mess but our pace was not the issue there so not quite sure why you would be saying that other than to try and make stuff up as it suits your point? our development up to the TD was just fine. You seem to hinge your success on wins and only wins while I realise Ferrari were coming from way behind and it's very hard in F1 to go from miles behind to title winning.

Ferrari don't have devine right to win every season and they need to work for it just like the rest, I can see progress if you can't then so be it you won't change my mind.

With these excuses Ferrari won’t win anything, that’s for sure. I don’t see any progress in in-season development. Silverstone would have been a huge defeat if Max wouldn’t have a broken car. Austria was ok but more thanks to Charles. TDs always seem to affect Ferrari, not so much the other teams. All developments made the car more understeery. But hey, Sainz was more comfortable. Great achievement. Only to finish 16 seconds behind his teammate.

**Greig** · 27th November 2022, 16:59

Originally Posted by brucewayne

With these excuses Ferrari won’t win anything, that’s for sure. I don’t see any progress in in-season development. Silverstone would have been a huge defeat if Max wouldn’t have a broken car. Austria was ok but more thanks to Charles. TDs always seem to affect Ferrari, not so much the other teams. All developments made the car more understeery. But hey, Sainz was more comfortable. Great achievement. Only to finish 16 seconds behind his teammate.

LOL and you say about excuses...we were not dropping behind before Spa no matter how much you try to make up "excuses". We were set for a 1-2 in Austria but yeah it was more thanks to Charles....really you are struggling there.....

What developments made the car have more understeer? oh yeah that was the tech directive not Ferrari's updates....and you again will say "excuses". Car lost it's front end after the TD everyone can see that apart from you maybe? After it was clear they would not recover it they switched to 2023 along with reduced engine, but you can claim it as excuses all you want, that's just the way it is.

Ferrari are said to have sacrificed nearly half a second by stopping developing early, that along with full engine power should see us right up there in 2023, but you can't see that far ahead I guess.

**brucewayne** · 27th November 2022, 17:18

Originally Posted by Greig

LOL and you say about excuses...we were not dropping behind before Spa no matter how much you try to make up "excuses".

What developments made the car have more understeer? oh yeah that was the tech directive not Ferrari's updates....and you again will say "excuses". Car lost it's front end after the TD everyone can see that apart from you maybe? After it was clear they would not recover it they switched to 2023 along with reduced engine, but you can claim it as excuses all you want, that's just the way it is.

We changed the floor in France. And since then the car understeered. So at the end it’s a matter of development. You can deny this fact all day, it won’t change. We lost the development fight again, don’t fool yourself. Hopefully there won’t be any excuses in Maranello about this.

**Greig** · 27th November 2022, 17:25

Originally Posted by brucewayne

We changed the floor in France. And since then the car understeered. So at the end it’s a matter of development. You can deny this fact all day, it won’t change. We lost the development fight again, don’t fool yourself. Hopefully there won’t be any excuses in Maranello about this.

Fact because you said so without any facts to back it up haha good post

Amazing that stopping developing the car would see you lose time to others around you, until we stopped developing we were not losing the development race at all, what will be your next excuse?