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Thread: Ferrari strategy calls

  1. #1
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    Ferrari strategy calls

    I think it deserves it's own thread, isn't it?
    I dont6 knife how strategy is called in the pit wall, but it's clear they have neither the tools nor the brain and certainky6 not the cold blood needed in such tight conditions.

    I remember a post in another side from a strategist in an F1 team. The tool they use is... Excel!
    Granted that was a couple of years back. However, it's 2022. I really hope that Ferrari realises that strategy calls should be made with the help of ML/AI and that relying on spreadsheets is not enough.

    IMHO, strategy calls should be made AWAY of the track, in Maranello from a dedicated team, using the appropriate software that can calculate timings, exit positions etc, but after calculating all possible scenarios of what an opponent will do,how they could possibly react, or act etc.

    I hope that their tool is more sophisticated than a spreadsheet and if not, to develop one. I am sure this will solve the majority of their problems and definitely the "box box box STAY OUT, STAY OUT" blow ups

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    In the last 10 years at least, they are incapable of finding a good strategist for our team . Totally inept !!!

  3. #3
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    Cold feet & amateurish at best

  4. #4
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    I'm not concerned about the last ten years, only about the last race. A few things stand out for me. Complete miscommunication between driver and pitwall. The guys on the side have all the information not the one driving and trying to do 100 different things, he should just be driving not calculating when to come in. Sainz said he wanted to go straight from Wets to Slicks, that is what first screwed us and the team should of said no we are going to shadow Red Bull.

    Once that window passes you can't then come in for Inters and a couple of laps later pit for Slicks which is what we did with Charles, not only that but we told him to box right on the back of Carlos! So not only did we pit late for inters we then double stacked when it wasn't possible so Charles lost the time of a pit stop plus the extra for waiting behind Carlos. That's how we ended up fourth. We need to be more decisive. The indecision will kill us if it continues.

  5. #5
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    Strategist / Strategy cost Charles Ferrari win at Monaco.

  6. #6
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    The discussion though is about what we, as fans, believe that needs to be improved, not if they did mistakes or not, because they did.
    And the issue here is both the communication and the time they spend to calculate things. It LOOKS like they have no means to calculatea sound solution, where other teams seems more capable to do so.

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    Binotto is the team principal. It's his job to sort out the pitwall if they are performing badly.

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    The call was made for Charles to come in by then it was to late he had already entered pit lane the strategist was trying to reverse the call but to late that smells of a panic induced situation.A strategist must have a cool head at all times and be deadly with his calls not come in no stop syndrome this in itself causes grief and stress for Charles and his venting and anger is fully justified.If that had happened to max he would demand the strategist get sacked immediately. Binotto must have an internal review as to what happened and ask the hard question to the strategist are you up to it or not.?Please ferrari do not sweep this under the carpet and do take the appropriate action to ensure that kindergarden mistakes like this one never happens again.

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    They are ridiculous and they will lose Charles the title if this madness continues.

  10. #10
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    Meanwhile Carlos is now only One Point away from Russell!

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    Leclerc should have priority in terms of strategy and this should be made clear to both drivers.

    As it is at Red Bull and how it was at Mercedes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JPZ View Post
    Leclerc should have priority in terms of strategy and this should be made clear to both drivers.

    As it is at Red Bull and how it was at Mercedes.
    Yes sounds right, but earn the #1 spot first.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JPZ View Post
    Leclerc should have priority in terms of strategy and this should be made clear to both drivers.

    As it is at Red Bull and how it was at Mercedes.
    There was no need to favor one or the other for now, just not to be so bad with pitstops
    I saw Leclerc concentrate to build a gap without taking any risk, how could they be so bad, it's disrespectful, very far from the level of a top team

  14. #14
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    Wow...
    Guys (and girls?), this is not about the last race.
    This is about a discussion, about the TOOLS and the operations. It's not about persons. Does Ferrari pitwall operates calmly? Or not?
    Do they have the necessary tools to act AND react on events?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Redfive View Post
    They are ridiculous and they will lose Charles the title if this madness continues.
    And continue it will because no one has paid for their mistake.
    I am part of that power which eternally wills evil and eternally works good

    Damnation seize my soul if I give you quarters, or take any from you.

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    I don't know if this was the decision of one man or a group but they choked and got baited in pitting Leclerc for intermediate. It's like they needed to respond to Red Bull instead of doing their own race.

    You could tell a dry line was forming, why the heck come in when track position is king in Monaco? Even if Leclerc get those wet tires bald and Perez catches up he won't be able to pass so why??...damn it.

    Riccardo with Red Bull was able to finish and win Monaco with a broken hybrid engine.

    Leclerc and Sainz should of waited to put dry tires and that's it, easy. It's not like ...oh we didn't know it wasn't going to rain...they brought Leclerc in after 3 laps!! for dry tires. Incredible mess up.

    I wish somebody with the race craft strategist like Ross Brawn would take control of this sinking ship.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by TTRSMAD View Post
    I don't know if this was the decision of one man or a group but they choked and got baited in pitting Leclerc for intermediate. It's like they needed to respond to Red Bull instead of doing their own race.

    You could tell a dry line was forming, why the heck come in when track position is king in Monaco? Even if Leclerc get those wet tires bald and Perez catches up he won't be able to pass so why??...damn it.

    Riccardo with Red Bull was able to finish and win Monaco with a broken hybrid engine.

    Leclerc and Sainz should of waited to put dry tires and that's it, easy. It's not like ...oh we didn't know it wasn't going to rain...they brought Leclerc in after 3 laps!! for dry tires. Incredible mess up.

    I wish somebody with the race craft strategist like Ross Brawn would take control of this sinking ship.
    If Leclerc stayed out and kept the wets, he would have fallen back more as everyone else was that much faster.
    then he would have been stuck in the monaco train after his stop, on the right tire and unable to get back into position.
    even if they went for the dry later, he would have fallen back too much to stay ahead or even close to the red bulls.

    i don't think it is that easy to say what would have been the right call, all we know for sure is that Ferrari messed up.
    our strategy got wrecked but what caused it ?
    was it a pure strategic mistake?
    Sainz talking back when he got the call to come in for intermediates?

    There is something that needs fixing there but i don't think we have the information to point to anything specific.
    Ferrari messed up big and that is all we really know.
    Life might be hard, Concrete is a lot harder

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grinsomx View Post
    If Leclerc stayed out and kept the wets, he would have fallen back more as everyone else was that much faster.
    then he would have been stuck in the monaco train after his stop, on the right tire and unable to get back into position.
    even if they went for the dry later, he would have fallen back too much to stay ahead or even close to the red bulls.

    i don't think it is that easy to say what would have been the right call, all we know for sure is that Ferrari messed up.
    our strategy got wrecked but what caused it ?
    was it a pure strategic mistake?
    Sainz talking back when he got the call to come in for intermediates?

    There is something that needs fixing there but i don't think we have the information to point to anything specific.
    Ferrari messed up big and that is all we really know.
    Sainz refused inter tyres and he was right
    https://scuderiafans.com/ferrari-tea...022-monaco-gp/

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilles View Post
    Sainz refused inter tyres and he was right
    https://scuderiafans.com/ferrari-tea...022-monaco-gp/
    He still lost a place to Perez though.
    Forza Ferrari

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grinsomx View Post
    If Leclerc stayed out and kept the wets, he would have fallen back more as everyone else was that much faster.
    then he would have been stuck in the monaco train after his stop, on the right tire and unable to get back into position.
    even if they went for the dry later, he would have fallen back too much to stay ahead or even close to the red bulls.

    i don't think it is that easy to say what would have been the right call, all we know for sure is that Ferrari messed up.
    our strategy got wrecked but what caused it ?
    was it a pure strategic mistake?
    Sainz talking back when he got the call to come in for intermediates?

    There is something that needs fixing there but i don't think we have the information to point to anything specific.
    Ferrari messed up big and that is all we really know.
    Even Binotto said so after the race. Come in for intermediate was the wrong call and should of came in for slicks. Track was drying up and would of made this race easy. When Leclerc pit for the first time, Perez was 18s behind on
    intermediate, how many laps would taken Perez to catch up on intermediates and pass? By that time Leclerc would of pitted for slicks so no you are wrong.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    He still lost a place to Perez though.
    But overall he retained 2nd, he didn’t lose three places like Charles did.

    You will literally bend into a pretzel to shift blame away from those who deserve to bear it. It’s comical.
    I am part of that power which eternally wills evil and eternally works good

    Damnation seize my soul if I give you quarters, or take any from you.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by TTRSMAD View Post
    Even Binotto said so after the race. Come in for intermediate was the wrong call and should of came in for slicks. Track was drying up and would of made this race easy. When Leclerc pit for the first time, Perez was 18s behind on
    intermediate, how many laps would taken Perez to catch up on intermediates and pass? By that time Leclerc would of pitted for slicks so no you are wrong.
    that is a whole different comment than your first one though.

    Quote Originally Posted by TTRSMAD View Post
    Even if Leclerc get those wet tires bald and Perez catches up he won't be able to pass so why??
    staying out and waiting would have been the wrong call, the laptimes did not allow it
    you asked why, well, I answered.

    saying that they should have pitted for slicks the first time around is a different thing, that might have worked but was risky at that time if you looked at some of the other cars sliding around.
    Life might be hard, Concrete is a lot harder

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    Quote Originally Posted by WS6TransAm01 View Post
    But overall he retained 2nd, he didn’t lose three places like Charles did.

    You will literally bend into a pretzel to shift blame away from those who deserve to bear it. It’s comical.
    Charles lost out to Max due to blue flags being ignored why are you not concerned about that? Beacause it detracts from your "i hate the team" stance that's why.....you spent the week leading up the race salvitating at the thought of Charles crashing out of Monaco, you are pathetic.
    Forza Ferrari

  24. #24
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    There was no need to favor one or the other for now
    I disgress.
    One team has a clear 1/2 policy, we have a driver who clearly is fighting for WDC and is more stable than the other.
    So we cannot possibly spare points between an internal battle which will create discord and benefit RBR.

    Clear roles , work as team, bring it to RBR.
    "If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve

  25. #25
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    But overall he retained 2nd, he didn’t lose three places like Charles did.
    You mean, they managed to lose 3 places to Charles.
    "If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve

  26. #26
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    Carlos is only 1 point behind Russell. There's too many more races still go to think any driver is already the WDC favorite for sure. Just look at George vs. Lewis; given permission to race against him! Charles and Carlos battling for points I believe will create points ; not take away from the teams WCC chances. Charles vs Seb!! no team orders!!
    Last edited by Brembo; 31st May 2022 at 16:24.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    Charles lost out to Max due to blue flags being ignored why are you not concerned about that? Beacause it detracts from your "i hate the team" stance that's why.....you spent the week leading up the race salvitating at the thought of Charles crashing out of Monaco, you are pathetic.
    I love the team, which is why I don't accept mediocrity or failure. I expect nothing less than excellence and will not accept anything else. "The reward for excellence is no punishment". Anything below that is entirely unacceptable.

    It is you, who contently excuses their failures, it's as if you don't care if they win or not so long as you can express your bling allegiance, THAT is truly pathetic.

    You need to recognize joke, bud. Your sense of humor is garbage.
    I am part of that power which eternally wills evil and eternally works good

    Damnation seize my soul if I give you quarters, or take any from you.

  28. #28
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    Leo Turrini :
    “ When Sergio Perez, the Mexican from Red Bull, stopped to fit the intermediate tires, it was right to ask Carlos Sainz to copy his choice. But when the Spaniard refused, saying on the radio that the track was drying away, it was absurd to stop Charles Leclerc. Carletto was first, yes he could wait for dry weather. Instead he was forced to make two close stops. He was first, he finished off the podium. An own goal like Radu in Bologna-Inter. I want to add that Carlos Sainz needs to understand that he has to help Charles Leclerc. The way he did things in Monaco was not right, even if his intuition was right.”

  29. #29
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    There is another aspect to the strategy mess, and that is that Carlos demanded to stay out until the track was ready for slicks, whereas he should have pitted for inters to protect Charles' lead, but that would be seen as the team favouring Charles. As it turned out, Carlos thought he could win, but he didn't and Charles dropped to P4. Are we fighting for this championship or not?

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    Carlos is only 1 point behind Russell. There's too many more races still go to think any driver is already the WDC favorite for sure. Just look at George vs. Lewis; given permission to race against him! Charles and Carlos battling for points I believe will create points ; not take away from the teams WCC chances. Charles vs Seb!! no team orders!!
    Charles is faster, and proves it in all races. When fighting for title, Ferrari's interest is not to care about its weakest driver, but about the strongest and to make the weakest aim for the team's success, not just his own. Otherwise, common sense will be to send him away, so that he can express his "super talent" elsewhere. And if you follow him to troll another team's forum, we woud win twice
    Last edited by Gilles; 31st May 2022 at 18:08.

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