2022 Azerbaijan Grand Prix - Race

[Cavallino]

I get all that but those are independent teams like AF Corsa and so forth. Those aren't Ferrari teams.

So back to my point, it will be 50 years since Ferrari, as a team, has been at LeMans and next year they are joining the hypercar class. They are going up against some formidable teams like Toyota Gazoo Racing and Porsche.

yeah, but the guy i was replying to was just using the performance of the 488s over the weekend to barometer how Ferrari would potentially do with Hypercar. And another reason to bash Ferrari without proper understanding.

They're completely different things.

[jgonzalesm6]

yeah, but the guy i was replying to was just using the performance of the 488s over the weekend to barometer how Ferrari would potentially do with Hypercar. And another reason to bash Ferrari without proper understanding.

They're completely different things.

So you think Ferrari will do well against said teams in the hypercar class after not being at LeMans for 50 years??? with a completely new car that will go the full 24 hours without any hiccups???....okay then.

Maybe the poster is'nt bashing Ferrari but realizes what Ferrari is up against with regards to the competition and endurance.

[Cavallino]

So you think Ferrari will do well against said teams in the hypercar class after not being at LeMans for 50 years??? with a completely new car that will go the full 24 hours without any hiccups???....okay then.

Maybe the poster is'nt bashing Ferrari but realizes what Ferrari is up against with regards to the competition and endurance.

They will all be new cars!!!!

And isn't that's the same thing as saying just because the engines blew in Baku that the engines will blow in hypercar

they're completely new rules, new machinery, it's not like they're trying to build a car / team that is going up against the current Gazoo machinery. There's homologation involved now, i am not too versed on those details and how BoP will be decided.

And isn't it the same for Porsche ? Porsche in GT are all privateer, to my knowledge they aren't running in the top class.

we don't know, but saying that Ferrari is somehow inherently disadvantaged for some reason, is just being unnecessarily pessimistic, especially when you're basing it off the 488 gts, which was the topic i was replying to

[Michelc30]

F1 | Ferrari: endothermic and turbo engine both ko
This morning the dismantling of Leclerc's power unit began in Maranello, which went up in smoke on lap 20 of the Azerbaijan GP, while Charles was leading the race. He gave up a detail in the headline that never accused trouble in the development of the Superfast. In Canada the Monegasque will have a new zero-kilometer engine, but could use the turbo of unit 1 without going into penalties. Sainz was stopped, instead, by the pump that controls the hydraulic system.

14 Jun 2022, 12:16

F1 | Ferrari: endothermic and turbo engine both ko
The response is difficult to digest: heat engine and turbo ko. The number two 066/7 that crashed into Charles Leclerc's Ferrari F1-75 on lap 20 of the Azerbaijan GP, while the Monegasque was in the lead, is being dismantled in the mechanical department of the Racing Department.

The cursed six-cylinder arrived in Maranello at the beginning of the morning for what can now be considered a... autopsy, since the failure in the head caused damage that also extended to the turbo.
As Mattia Binotto had already said on Sunday evening, Ferrari will go to Canada with the 3 engine, while it could still use the supercharging system of unit 1 (as in Monaco) to avoid going into penalties.
In the engine department directed by Enrico Gualtieri there is a lot of nervousness because to give in, according to the rumors that have filtered, was an element that has never given problems for years and, therefore, was not a part at risk. It is a piece that is not produced in Ferrari, but that is ensured by a supplier who self-certifies the quality of each individual piece.
In the analyzes that the technicians are performing, it could emerge what may have induced the break that led to the bluish smoke that came out of the red exhaust, before forcing Leclerc to pull over for the second withdrawal.
The engine that will be mounted in Canada will be zero kilometers and, therefore, should not fear any reliability problems, so the technicians of the Cavallino will have time to understand what actions to take and if there will be the need to reclaim some pieces in anticipation: it is certain, in fact, that Ferrari will be forced to mark a quarter, if not a fifth engine, in progress considering a life that is proving to be decidedly shorter than the 7 GPs.

Regarding the stop that led to the retirement of Carlos Sainz during lap 9 there are fewer mysteries: to break would have been the pump that controls the hydraulic system and that allows you to manage several important functions of the car. On the display of the computer steering wheel of the Spaniard appeared the signal "brake by wire", but it is evident that the problem with the rear brakes was an effect (the system went into protection) and not the cause of the ko. Unusual breaks that agitate the Cavallino.
Stops that do not seem to be determined by the increase in performance sought in the challenge with Red Bull: the use of more or less pushed mappings would not have highlighted flaws of the "Superfast" engine which, in truth, of breaks on the bench has added many in the advanced experimentation phase. Engine 1 had been deliberate with a little less beer in the body, waiting for the long runs expected on the duration (over 7 thousand kilometers) to give green light to push more.

We are waiting for Ferrari to come out with the usual note with which Maranello formalizes the breakages (and this is a merit that must be recognized to the team directed by Binotto), while the engineers are also probing the other problems that are undermining the reliability of the 066/7 engines of the Haas and Alfa Romeo customer teams, struggling with different power unit packaging.
Nothing is left to chance: every clue can be useful to turn a championship that seemed born under the best auspices for Ferrari and that is shattering the world championship dreams of Charles Leclerc. The game is not over and in Maranello they did not give up, aware of having a winning car and driver in their hands...

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1...utm_content=it

[jgonzalesm6]

F1 | Ferrari: endothermic and turbo engine both ko
This morning the dismantling of Leclerc's power unit began in Maranello, which went up in smoke on lap 20 of the Azerbaijan GP, while Charles was leading the race. He gave up a detail in the headline that never accused trouble in the development of the Superfast. In Canada the Monegasque will have a new zero-kilometer engine, but could use the turbo of unit 1 without going into penalties. Sainz was stopped, instead, by the pump that controls the hydraulic system.

14 Jun 2022, 12:16

F1 | Ferrari: endothermic and turbo engine both ko
The response is difficult to digest: heat engine and turbo ko. The number two 066/7 that crashed into Charles Leclerc's Ferrari F1-75 on lap 20 of the Azerbaijan GP, while the Monegasque was in the lead, is being dismantled in the mechanical department of the Racing Department.

The cursed six-cylinder arrived in Maranello at the beginning of the morning for what can now be considered a... autopsy, since the failure in the head caused damage that also extended to the turbo.
As Mattia Binotto had already said on Sunday evening, Ferrari will go to Canada with the 3 engine, while it could still use the supercharging system of unit 1 (as in Monaco) to avoid going into penalties.
In the engine department directed by Enrico Gualtieri there is a lot of nervousness because to give in, according to the rumors that have filtered, was an element that has never given problems for years and, therefore, was not a part at risk. It is a piece that is not produced in Ferrari, but that is ensured by a supplier who self-certifies the quality of each individual piece.
In the analyzes that the technicians are performing, it could emerge what may have induced the break that led to the bluish smoke that came out of the red exhaust, before forcing Leclerc to pull over for the second withdrawal.
The engine that will be mounted in Canada will be zero kilometers and, therefore, should not fear any reliability problems, so the technicians of the Cavallino will have time to understand what actions to take and if there will be the need to reclaim some pieces in anticipation: it is certain, in fact, that Ferrari will be forced to mark a quarter, if not a fifth engine, in progress considering a life that is proving to be decidedly shorter than the 7 GPs.

Regarding the stop that led to the retirement of Carlos Sainz during lap 9 there are fewer mysteries: to break would have been the pump that controls the hydraulic system and that allows you to manage several important functions of the car. On the display of the computer steering wheel of the Spaniard appeared the signal "brake by wire", but it is evident that the problem with the rear brakes was an effect (the system went into protection) and not the cause of the ko. Unusual breaks that agitate the Cavallino.
Stops that do not seem to be determined by the increase in performance sought in the challenge with Red Bull: the use of more or less pushed mappings would not have highlighted flaws of the "Superfast" engine which, in truth, of breaks on the bench has added many in the advanced experimentation phase. Engine 1 had been deliberate with a little less beer in the body, waiting for the long runs expected on the duration (over 7 thousand kilometers) to give green light to push more.

We are waiting for Ferrari to come out with the usual note with which Maranello formalizes the breakages (and this is a merit that must be recognized to the team directed by Binotto), while the engineers are also probing the other problems that are undermining the reliability of the 066/7 engines of the Haas and Alfa Romeo customer teams, struggling with different power unit packaging.
Nothing is left to chance: every clue can be useful to turn a championship that seemed born under the best auspices for Ferrari and that is shattering the world championship dreams of Charles Leclerc. The game is not over and in Maranello they did not give up, aware of having a winning car and driver in their hands...

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1...utm_content=it

So Leclerc will take a new PU at Canada which will be his 3rd.

After the 3rd, it's grid spot penalties. Feel sorry for this kid and for Ferrari the rest of the season.


This is what Binotto meant when he said Ferrari is not fighting for the championship. He knew this was going to happen. He said this to soften the blow to all the tifosi.

[Brembo]

So Leclerc will take a new PU at Canada which will be his 3rd.

After the 3rd, it's grid spot penalties. Feel sorry for this kid and for Ferrari the rest of the season.


This is what Binotto meant when he said Ferrari is not fighting for the championship. He knew this was going to happen. He said this to soften the blow to all the tifosi.

Binotto saying Ferrari is not fighting for the WCC or WDC makes it worse for Ferrari fans knowing they gave up on any chances to win. Watching the rest of the races thinking the team already gave up is far from softening the 2022 disaster before it ends. Let their be hope!!! I for one still believe theirs hope for Ferrari !

[aroutis]

So Leclerc will take a new PU at Canada which will be his 3rd.

After the 3rd, it's grid spot penalties. Feel sorry for this kid and for Ferrari the rest of the season.


This is what Binotto meant when he said Ferrari is not fighting for the championship. He knew this was going to happen. He said this to soften the blow to all the tifosi.

The tifosi do not care for soften blows but for the truth and to watch the team assuming responsibility and bleeding if needed in order to fix things and moving forward.
Anything else is irresponsible at best.

I know all about Binotto and how he's bleeding Ferrari but at times he acts as if he does not know where he is.

If Mercedes last year was able to make up for their power deficit with their so called spicy engine, maybe we should entertain something like that. Are we going to be punished like mercedes? Sure we will. However as it stands we do have the most powerful engine in the grid so what we really need to do is be able to make the engine last for at least two races and give it such a power output that make this worth it while.

If last race showed us something is that we have fixed the drag issue (we had the same top speed) and our tyre wear was fine. I am pretty sure LEC was saving tyres so I am sure we had -at least- a fighting chance for P1.

So we don't need to see things in a negative way, as long as we actually start to think out of the box and not in a "we are not fighting for the championship". No sir. We will BLEED for the championship because Ferrari is destined to fight for the titles. This is what the tifosi want to hear.

[jgonzalesm6]

The tifosi do not care for soften blows but for the truth and to watch the team assuming responsibility and bleeding if needed in order to fix things and moving forward.
Anything else is irresponsible at best.

I know all about Binotto and how he's bleeding Ferrari but at times he acts as if he does not know where he is.

If Mercedes last year was able to make up for their power deficit with their so called spicy engine, maybe we should entertain something like that. Are we going to be punished like mercedes? Sure we will. However as it stands we do have the most powerful engine in the grid so what we really need to do is be able to make the engine last for at least two races and give it such a power output that make this worth it while.

If last race showed us something is that we have fixed the drag issue (we had the same top speed) and our tyre wear was fine. I am pretty sure LEC was saving tyres so I am sure we had -at least- a fighting chance for P1.

So we don't need to see things in a negative way, as long as we actually start to think out of the box and not in a "we are not fighting for the championship". No sir. We will BLEED for the championship because Ferrari is destined to fight for the titles. This is what the tifosi want to hear.

Here's the rub:

1) How long have we been with the same PU set-up???? ..............since 2014??? Nothing has changed since. It's 2022 and Ferrari is still have reliability issues.

2.) We're going into race #9 and Ferrari, to include Mercedes, haven't fixed their porpoising issue.

At least Mercedes has a porpoising issue. Ferrari has 2 issues of which one of them(PU) should have been fixed A LONG TIME AGO.......but no.

I'll watch the races, but my confidence in this team winning this year has been and still is at an all time low.

At least I'll be happy that Russell is outperforming a 7x WDC title holder. To bad, the British media and commentators don't give credence to Russell when it's due. They, the media and commentators, are still sucking on the Lewis Hamilton tit like Lewis is their savior........please. Lewis is over-rated.

I also want Nico Rosberg back commentating because he tells like it is with regards to Lewis and Russell and goes against Hill and everyone else. Brundle isn't as biased either towards Lewis.

RedBull seem like a strong and solid team with a strong and solid duo....whom don't have a porpoising issue either.

[RicRac]

Hard truth... Maurizio Arrivabene is sorely missed in this Team.. Binnoto should be back at the Factory where his role is put to better use

[Hornet]

I hope we can still somehow turn things around, and at the very least give RB a run for their money.

I remember last season RB did well to minimize the impact when Max had to take a new PU. Its all about picking the right race where we can quickly recover from the back.
We are better off taking a couple of new PU penalty than to DNF and get zero points.

[jgonzalesm6]

Looks like Leclerc missed his flight to Montreal.

This kid can't catch a break.

[JPZ]

I hope we can still somehow turn things around, and at the very least give RB a run for their money.

I remember last season RB did well to minimize the impact when Max had to take a new PU. Its all about picking the right race where we can quickly recover from the back.
We are better off taking a couple of new PU penalty than to DNF and get zero points.

Agreed.

[wisepie]

I hope we can still somehow turn things around, and at the very least give RB a run for their money.

I remember last season RB did well to minimize the impact when Max had to take a new PU. Its all about picking the right race where we can quickly recover from the back.
We are better off taking a couple of new PU penalty than to DNF and get zero points.

The usual words of reason from you, Hornet, but we definitely didn't need Binotto suggesting that we are not fighting for the championships, I wonder if Charles likes that attitude. He probably has no choice! If by some miracle we have a trouble-free race in Montreal, and the PU issues can be corrected quickly, it's still to play for, just.

[Brembo]

The usual words of reason from you, Hornet, but we definitely didn't need Binotto suggesting that we are not fighting for the championships, I wonder if Charles likes that attitude. He probably has no choice! If by some miracle we have a trouble-free race in Montreal, and the PU issues can be corrected quickly, it's still to play for, just.

Wisepie; I couldn't agree more with regards to Binotto's suggestions. How does he think Charles and Carlos feel after a statement like that?

[WS6TransAm01]

Binotto saying Ferrari is not fighting for the WCC or WDC makes it worse for Ferrari fans knowing they gave up on any chances to win. Watching the rest of the races thinking the team already gave up is far from softening the 2022 disaster before it ends. Let their be hope!!! I for one still believe theirs hope for Ferrari !

Binotto is a born loser. You can see it by just looking at him. He looks like Michael, the Goth kid from South Park.

[Silent Bob]

Binotto is a born loser. You can see it by just looking at him. He looks like Michael, the Goth kid from South Park.

Don't think that's fair to Binotto.

Binotto is the guy that has Ferrari winning races and the guy that designed probably the fastest car on the grid.

Losing engines are a bummer but going from the worst engine on the grid to one of the best in a couple of years and bringing in a completely new concept, I think one can expect some issues. There were a whole bunch of posters that said they'd rather have the quickest engine and fix reliability issues afterwards. Now the tune changes.

And anyone who thinks Leclerc is going to jump to Merc, good luck. I think Merc will probably be a private team in a few years and won't even be a contender, maybe just an engine supplier.

[458 Italia]

I get all that but those are independent teams like AF Corsa and so forth. Those aren't Ferrari teams.

So back to my point, it will be 50 years since Ferrari, as a team, has been at LeMans and next year they are joining the hypercar class. They are going up against some formidable teams like Toyota Gazoo Racing and Porsche.

AF Corse are basically the Ferrari factory team, they're much more than a privateer/customer team. Rob could tell you how closely linked they are.

[FerrariF60]

Don't think that's fair to Binotto.

Binotto is the guy that has Ferrari winning races and the guy that designed probably the fastest car on the grid.

Losing engines are a bummer but going from the worst engine on the grid to one of the best in a couple of years and bringing in a completely new concept, I think one can expect some issues. There were a whole bunch of posters that said they'd rather have the quickest engine and fix reliability issues afterwards. Now the tune changes.

And anyone who thinks Leclerc is going to jump to Merc, good luck. I think Merc will probably be a private team in a few years and won't even be a contender, maybe just an engine supplier.

Very well put Bob,

like you, i'd rather have a QUICK car that has reliability issues (which you can work on fixing) as opposed to a slow reliable car.....God only knows how many years Ferrari have played the conservative card and YEAH, we were reliable, but deff. not quick

Ferrari will fix the issues of reliability that i'm sure of.....and then we'll get back to winning ways....as we have a fast car, our concept works really well.....i'd be surprised if NOT more teams will try to copy our concept next year

[WS6TransAm01]

Don't think that's fair to Binotto.

Binotto is the guy that has Ferrari winning races and the guy that designed probably the fastest car on the grid.

Losing engines are a bummer but going from the worst engine on the grid to one of the best in a couple of years and bringing in a completely new concept, I think one can expect some issues. There were a whole bunch of posters that said they'd rather have the quickest engine and fix reliability issues afterwards. Now the tune changes.

And anyone who thinks Leclerc is going to jump to Merc, good luck. I think Merc will probably be a private team in a few years and won't even be a contender, maybe just an engine supplier.

It isn't the fastest car though, since RBR have a significant KPH advantage on the straights.

[Fastest vs Quickest]

There have been times when it was the quickest car, yes, but it doesn't matter if you don't finish the race. You can have a giant member but if you never score with a chick, what use is it? It's just lonely onanism.

Is it the best engine if it blows up? I understand it's easier to make a fast car reliable than a reliable car fast but in order to score points you have to finish the damn race! If Charles retires from P1 while holding a 30 second lead from every race, what's the point?

I don't think Charles is going anywhere, and I feel sorry for him. He is an exceptional talent with the same fantasy that Fernando and Seb had but as long as Ferrari's leaders continue to fail to lead, his tenure at Ferrari will go the same way as theirs. It breaks my heart that 15 years later, Ferrari have yet to find a leader worthy of the greatest team in motorsports.

Now for Binotto himself, he isn't the team leader at HAAS, his goal, every year, should be to win both championships. Period. He may fail at it, but it has to be his goal. Saying you are not here to compete for the win is a loser mentality. What is he hoping for? A participation trophy? That is not the attitude Ferrari needs and exemplifies someone who is a born loser.

[SilverSpeed]

I'm happy with a fast car that wins races and breaks down from time to time,
then a slow car that finishes outside the points all the time.

[Ferrari312T4]

Oh well it is what it is. We have a fast car and if we can pinpoint the weakness in our engine, we might be able to fix that with a reliability upgrade. Which is allowed if I am not mistaken. The good thing is, we have a fast car and the upgrades we bolted on seemed to work. We have been in different waters when it comes to correlation issues. So in all yeah it was a kick to the... Next race I hope Carlos gets it together now.

[WS6TransAm01]

Oh well it is what it is. We have a fast car and if we can pinpoint the weakness in our engine, we might be able to fix that with a reliability upgrade. Which is allowed if I am not mistaken. The good thing is, we have a fast car and the upgrades we bolted on seemed to work. We have been in different waters when it comes to correlation issues. So in all yeah it was a kick to the... Next race I hope Carlos gets it together now.

Ferrari doesn't have a fast car, thought. Ferrari has a car which is occasionally quick and an engine which is unreliable.

The worst part is no one is being held responsible.

[Brembo]

In order for Carlos to get it together he needs a car that can get it together and at least finish the race. Charles and Carlos need each other to get it right on the track. And yes Binotto has to be held responsible for the reliability end of the car. My vino and pasta is not enough to get me through another Sunday race in peace!!!!I need a win.

[Greig]

Ferrari doesn't have a fast car, thought. Ferrari has a car which is occasionally quick and an engine which is unreliable.

The worst part is no one is being held responsible.

Been leading the last 3 races, yeah not fast.....

Yep usual trolling.....

[FerrariF60]

Been leading the last 3 races, yeah not fast.....

Yep usual trolling.....

TRUE, but i'd be even happier to also finish them.....to finish 1st.....first you MUST finish....

[Jax]

TRUE, but i'd be even happier to also finish them.....to finish 1st.....first you MUST finish....

but then again i'm sure if i dig on this very same forum , i bet i could find some posts of you saying you'd rather have a fast car that breaks then a slow car that has bullet proof realiability (which was the case when alonso was at ferrari for example). YOu guys need to remember from how far we've come since two years ago.

PS : i have nothing against you.

[Silent Bob]

It isn't the fastest car though, since RBR have a significant KPH advantage on the straights.

[Fastest vs Quickest]

There have been times when it was the quickest car, yes, but it doesn't matter if you don't finish the race. You can have a giant member but if you never score with a chick, what use is it? It's just lonely onanism.

Is it the best engine if it blows up? I understand it's easier to make a fast car reliable than a reliable car fast but in order to score points you have to finish the damn race! If Charles retires from P1 while holding a 30 second lead from every race, what's the point?

I don't think Charles is going anywhere, and I feel sorry for him. He is an exceptional talent with the same fantasy that Fernando and Seb had but as long as Ferrari's leaders continue to fail to lead, his tenure at Ferrari will go the same way as theirs. It breaks my heart that 15 years later, Ferrari have yet to find a leader worthy of the greatest team in motorsports.

Now for Binotto himself, he isn't the team leader at HAAS, his goal, every year, should be to win both championships. Period. He may fail at it, but it has to be his goal. Saying you are not here to compete for the win is a loser mentality. What is he hoping for? A participation trophy? That is not the attitude Ferrari needs and exemplifies someone who is a born loser.

Perhaps Binotto is tempering expectations. He's said many times that they have a planned yearly timeline for where they want to be. I really doubt that he doesn't want to win regardless of how you feel about him.
Should we fire him right now before we lose more ground to RB? Maybe get rid of the aero and engine guys while we're at it.
Or we can stay a little patient and see how or if they turn things around. If there's one thing that has led Ferrari to be winless year after year is pushing people out and starting over again & again.
N

[Brembo]

Is Briatore availble? A sure cure.

[aroutis]

Here's the rub:

1) How long have we been with the same PU set-up???? ..............since 2014??? Nothing has changed since. It's 2022 and Ferrari is still have reliability issues.

2.) We're going into race #9 and Ferrari, to include Mercedes, haven't fixed their porpoising issue.

At least Mercedes has a porpoising issue. Ferrari has 2 issues of which one of them(PU) should have been fixed A LONG TIME AGO.......but no.

I'll watch the races, but my confidence in this team winning this year has been and still is at an all time low.

At least I'll be happy that Russell is outperforming a 7x WDC title holder. To bad, the British media and commentators don't give credence to Russell when it's due. They, the media and commentators, are still sucking on the Lewis Hamilton tit like Lewis is their savior........please. Lewis is over-rated.

I also want Nico Rosberg back commentating because he tells like it is with regards to Lewis and Russell and goes against Hill and everyone else. Brundle isn't as biased either towards Lewis.

RedBull seem like a strong and solid team with a strong and solid duo....whom don't have a porpoising issue either.

I don't recall us having reliability issues that bad all these years. But if I am mad about something (because I am) is that we have had even one part that was self certified. There is no excuse for this.
Re: there is no easy answer for this and the fact that apart from RBR pretty much the rest of the field suffers one way or the other from it , is a testiment to the truth of that. However I do believe we're in a far better faith from pretty much the rest of the field. Do we need to fix it ? Of course.

[aroutis]

Oh well it is what it is. We have a fast car and if we can pinpoint the weakness in our engine, we might be able to fix that with a reliability upgrade. Which is allowed if I am not mistaken. The good thing is, we have a fast car and the upgrades we bolted on seemed to work. We have been in different waters when it comes to correlation issues. So in all yeah it was a kick to the... Next race I hope Carlos gets it together now.

Quite honestly , when the year started I had all faith in Carlos. I never bought the "he is at the same level to Charles" story , but I did feel he would be a solid #2 to Charles which is what the team needs in order for the WCC to happen (look at RBR, for whomever still is delusional enough to think that #1/2 policy is bad etc)
But, as we witness thru the races, call it luck, call it whatever you want, Carlos one way or the other simply has failed to deliver and that is just sad.