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Thread: 2022 Azerbaijan GP: Post Race Analysis

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    2022 Azerbaijan GP: Post Race Analysis

    Despite cars that can follow much closer than recent years, and a track with two very long straights, this race was a bore!

    Red Bull Racing are riding the wave of success. Most people tipped them as favorites due to the long straights and their extreme top speed advantage. The team stated the cars were set up more for the race, I think particularly with Verstappen as Perez uncharacteristic tire deg struggles suggests his setup was more focused towards quali. A bit of a shame the team didn't let them race harder, but it was the right call in the end and Verstappen was significantly faster. The WDC is still up in the air, but the WCC might be theirs to lose at this point.

    Mercedes may not be the fastest car anymore, but they certainly have a handle on reliability which again proves to be beneficial as they capitalized on other's problems. George Russell again outperforming his teammate, and again scoring another podium. Lewis got himself back in the pack due to his qualifying result but really fought hard to get back to 4th place. A very strong performance by the team. Unfortunately it sounds like Mercedes are lobbying for regulation changes to fix their proposing issues. We have seen this tactic from them before and the FIA usually complies which is unfair to teams like Red Bull, who have figured it out. There is no question the drivers take a beating, but Mercedes could change the setup to be more comfortable. It's a choice. We heard Toto again apologizing to Lewis after the race which is pathetic. Russell wasn't a drama queen about it. If Lewis can't handle it, then raise his car's ride height and let Russell make a bigger gap to the 7x champ.

    AlphaTauri finally got a good result. Perhaps the tracks with the long straights suit their car better. Gasly had his best performance all year and got a deserving 5th place. Tsunoda was having a very good race as well until a very strange rear wing issue forced a pitstop. The tape did hold, but it did seem risky to allow him back on track going 200 mph especially since he was out of the points anyways.

    Aston Martin had a very split weekend. Vettel was on it and delivered in the race. He did have a silly off while trying to overtake, but an awesome rally style recovery to keep the time loss to a minimum. Stroll on the other hand.... lets just he is lucky his dad owns the team.

    Alpine came into the season with the strategy of choosing power over reliability and on the power hungry Baku track, the car held up and gave Alonso some good points. Their tiny rear wing could not have been ideal for overall lap time, but it made it exceptionally difficult for anyone to pass them in the race. Ocon was even able to get into the points so it worked out well for them.

    McLaren were the slowest on the straight but the car was pretty good. I think their strategy only hurt their drivers races, but at least a double points finish with Ricciardo pretty much matching Lando for once. Ricciardo's race was absolutely compromised by keeping him behind Lando in the first half of the race, and then Lando wasn't able to fully use his fresher tires at the end of the race while being behind Ricciardo. Daniel did deserve to finish ahead though, and the team calling asking to hold position was correct.

    Alpha Romeo just outside the points. Bottas really didn't look very good this weekend, or maybe Zhou was just that impressive. His best race by far in his F1 career, unfortunately cut short by a mechanical issue.

    Williams really wasn't as good as their result shows. Albon quietly gets 12th place, but was still 4th from the bottom finishers. Latifi getting a 10 second stop and go penalty for a crew member touching a car within 15 seconds of the race start is a joke and it again shows how broken F1's penalty system is. 10 second stop and go that had absolutely no influence on their race vs say a 10 second time penalty for crashing out a direct competitor while you go on to win the race. Fair? To make things worse he got another penalty for ignoring blue flags, yet neither William's drivers got penalties in Monaco. Where's the consistency?

    Haas had a dreadful weekend and it might be the case where their window of good result is pretty much closed, unless they come out with a big update. That may not be possible with all the repair costs inflicted by Schumacher this year. Mick was horrible this weekend. His performance was well below Latifi's which is embarrassing.

    Ferrari gave huge hope to all the Tifosi to start the season, but reality may be setting in that their fight is to just stay ahead of Mercedes and hopefully get some wins here and there. The car is still fast, but their development is well short of Red Bull, Mercedes, and even Alpine. The bigger concern is reliability. PU issues are extremely costly over the course of the season. If Ferrari have any hopes at a championship, they cannot afford DNF's. A tough day for the red team.

    Driver of the Day: Lewis Hamilton. He was really the only guy to work for positions again and again. 4th place while being in obvious pain and discomfort. Good job.

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    Waiting for Red Bull to run out of money and than we hit back

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    Quote Originally Posted by stefa View Post
    Waiting for Red Bull to run out of money and than we hit back
    With exploding engines we'll run out of money even sooner than they will...

    "If he can't do it with Ferrari, well, he can't do it." - John Surtees

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    Red bull won't run out of money they are the new mercedes in the eyes of the F I A all others will be checked out for balance sheets and costs with a more eager eye to detail compared to redbull.It is impossible for redbull to keep on developing at this pace week in week out.What explanation can there be.?

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    Quote Originally Posted by stefa View Post
    Waiting for Red Bull to run out of money and than we hit back
    Not to be confused, I was sarcastic!

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    @SS454,
    just a couple of comments....
    If Lewis can't handle it, then raise his car's ride height and let Russell make a bigger gap to the 7x champ. should read:
    If Lewis can't handle it, then raise his car's ride height and let Russell make a bigger gap to the 7x chump.

    Driver of the Day: Lewis Hamilton. He was really the only guy to work for positions again and again. 4th place while being in obvious pain and discomfort. Good job.
    totally disagree... he's showboating to ensure merc's lobbying for porpoising fixes to be allowed... I don't see Russell, Sainz or Leclerc crying over their porpoising issues?
    rip Davide Giri
    I see no bending of the knee on this unprovoked RACIST murder.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Riccardog View Post
    @SS454,
    just a couple of comments....
    If Lewis can't handle it, then raise his car's ride height and let Russell make a bigger gap to the 7x champ. should read:
    If Lewis can't handle it, then raise his car's ride height and let Russell make a bigger gap to the 7x chump.

    Driver of the Day: Lewis Hamilton. He was really the only guy to work for positions again and again. 4th place while being in obvious pain and discomfort. Good job.
    totally disagree... he's showboating to ensure merc's lobbying for porpoising fixes to be allowed... I don't see Russell, Sainz or Leclerc crying over their porpoising issues?
    Lobbying for the fix with porpoising is the right thing to do ! Also George, Carlos and Charles are just as verbal if not even more with the issues. They can hardly get out of their car ; their in such pain; and keep in mind they are a lot younger drivers than Lewis.

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    Ferrari gave huge hope to all the Tifosi to start the season, but reality may be setting in that their fight is to just stay ahead of Mercedes and hopefully get some wins here and there. The car is still fast, but their development is well short of Red Bull, Mercedes, and even Alpine. The bigger concern is reliability. PU issues are extremely costly over the course of the season. If Ferrari have any hopes at a championship, they cannot afford DNF's. A tough day for the red team.
    I really cannot agree with this statement and I can only attribute to the same frustration I was (and to a point still am) feeling when I watched the race.
    Do we have issues with our engine (talking bout reliability)? Of course, undeniable.
    Does our car have development issues and is undeveloped compared to others ? I don't think so.

    I feel those two things are seperate and I feel the engine program has issues to be solved but it 's a different stream.

    The real question at hand here (and we'll have answers to this soon) is whether we are strong enough as a team to handle the pressure in solving this and moving forward. This calls for both leadership but also resources.

    Good times.
    "If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    Lobbying for the fix with porpoising is the right thing to do ! Also George, Carlos and Charles are just as verbal if not even more with the issues. They can hardly get out of their car ; their in such pain; and keep in mind they are a lot younger drivers than Lewis.
    I agree here, it does make a difference.

    I'm a similar age to Hamilton and quite active, and unfortunately it does make a difference compared to being in early 20's in terms of having to be more careful of potential injuries.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Riccardog View Post
    @SS454,
    just a couple of comments....
    If Lewis can't handle it, then raise his car's ride height and let Russell make a bigger gap to the 7x champ. should read:
    If Lewis can't handle it, then raise his car's ride height and let Russell make a bigger gap to the 7x chump.

    Driver of the Day: Lewis Hamilton. He was really the only guy to work for positions again and again. 4th place while being in obvious pain and discomfort. Good job.
    totally disagree... he's showboating to ensure merc's lobbying for porpoising fixes to be allowed... I don't see Russell, Sainz or Leclerc crying over their porpoising issues?
    I think Lewis was a drama queen and overplaying his back pain, but I have no disbelief that he was in some significant discomfort during the race. Remember he acted like he was going to pass out on the podium and blamed it on his Covid that he had long before?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    Lobbying for the fix with porpoising is the right thing to do ! Also George, Carlos and Charles are just as verbal if not even more with the issues. They can hardly get out of their car ; their in such pain; and keep in mind they are a lot younger drivers than Lewis.
    Wouldn't designing their car to not porpoise be the right thing to do? Red Bull clearly have it figured out, so it can be done. George talks about the porpoising being an issue, but even said his team CHOSE to lower the ride height and the drivers accepted to suffer more to get that performance. NOBODY complains as much as Hamilton.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aroutis View Post
    I really cannot agree with this statement and I can only attribute to the same frustration I was (and to a point still am) feeling when I watched the race.
    Do we have issues with our engine (talking bout reliability)? Of course, undeniable.
    Does our car have development issues and is undeveloped compared to others ? I don't think so.

    I feel those two things are seperate and I feel the engine program has issues to be solved but it 's a different stream.

    The real question at hand here (and we'll have answers to this soon) is whether we are strong enough as a team to handle the pressure in solving this and moving forward. This calls for both leadership but also resources.

    Good times.
    Can you actually say Ferrari's development has been as good as the teams mentioned?

    Red Bull, Mercedes, and Aston Martin have brought completely different body/packaging configs. Pretty much B spec cars.
    We've seen new floors from virtually every team.
    Alpine have made major changes to their side pods a couple times.
    Mercedes, Red Bull, and Alpine have brought many different wing configurations.
    Red Bull had reliability issues and have cleared those up.

    Ferrari on the other hand is still running the same body/sidepods since it's launch. It took them weeks to bring out the new floor which did not get rid of the porpoising, though certainly is an upgrade. They brought 1 proper updated rear wing, otherwise very minimal track specific aero configs. We saw a new mirror mounting config in Baku. They introduced a new spec PU, which apparently is unreliable.

    Look at a photo of the cars now vs launch, and Ferrari has changed very little in comparison to many of the other teams. And the performance gains from launch to now by other teams far exceeds Ferrari's. Ferrari was far and away the best car in testing and the opening races, and the other teams have absolutely closed the gap.


    As for your second point. I agree that resources are needed. Ferrari SHOULD be in much better shape than other teams, since they haven't brought as many updates as other teams. But I've heard they are going to run out of money before the end of the season too. This alarms me, as it makes me think the factory is spending loads of resources on parts that are failing and don't even make it to the track.

    I do not think leadership is that heavily weighted to solving the problems. Binotto is the guy to make the decisions on which area gets the resources (right now engine reliability), but it's up to their engineers and designers to figure out the solution, and their manufacturing departments to build it properly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SS454 View Post
    Can you actually say Ferrari's development has been as good as the teams mentioned?

    Red Bull, Mercedes, and Aston Martin have brought completely different body/packaging configs. Pretty much B spec cars.
    We've seen new floors from virtually every team.
    Alpine have made major changes to their side pods a couple times.
    Mercedes, Red Bull, and Alpine have brought many different wing configurations.
    Red Bull had reliability issues and have cleared those up.

    Ferrari on the other hand is still running the same body/sidepods since it's launch. It took them weeks to bring out the new floor which did not get rid of the porpoising, though certainly is an upgrade. They brought 1 proper updated rear wing, otherwise very minimal track specific aero configs. We saw a new mirror mounting config in Baku. They introduced a new spec PU, which apparently is unreliable.

    Look at a photo of the cars now vs launch, and Ferrari has changed very little in comparison to many of the other teams. And the performance gains from launch to now by other teams far exceeds Ferrari's. Ferrari was far and away the best car in testing and the opening races, and the other teams have absolutely closed the gap.


    As for your second point. I agree that resources are needed. Ferrari SHOULD be in much better shape than other teams, since they haven't brought as many updates as other teams. But I've heard they are going to run out of money before the end of the season too. This alarms me, as it makes me think the factory is spending loads of resources on parts that are failing and don't even make it to the track.

    I do not think leadership is that heavily weighted to solving the problems. Binotto is the guy to make the decisions on which area gets the resources (right now engine reliability), but it's up to their engineers and designers to figure out the solution, and their manufacturing departments to build it properly.
    Really??!!!
    Merc and Alpine have close the gap???
    Guys as I said in the race thread I'm also pretty much frustrated and start to lose confidence on the team ,but to try to exaggerate the others is another thing!!
    Till now only RedBull have managed to gain some performance compared to us but still not much.we don't even bothers about the others performance wise.
    So the only thing I don't accept is the development criticism. It haven't proved wet that we are fallen behind . We are still if not the fastest, right there fighting for wins.
    In all the others things we are really bad!!!!
    FERRARI FOR EVER !!!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by SS454 View Post
    Can you actually say Ferrari's development has been as good as the teams mentioned?

    Red Bull, Mercedes, and Aston Martin have brought completely different body/packaging configs. Pretty much B spec cars.
    We've seen new floors from virtually every team.
    Alpine have made major changes to their side pods a couple times.
    Mercedes, Red Bull, and Alpine have brought many different wing configurations.
    Red Bull had reliability issues and have cleared those up.

    Ferrari on the other hand is still running the same body/sidepods since it's launch. It took them weeks to bring out the new floor which did not get rid of the porpoising, though certainly is an upgrade. They brought 1 proper updated rear wing, otherwise very minimal track specific aero configs. We saw a new mirror mounting config in Baku. They introduced a new spec PU, which apparently is unreliable.

    Look at a photo of the cars now vs launch, and Ferrari has changed very little in comparison to many of the other teams. And the performance gains from launch to now by other teams far exceeds Ferrari's. Ferrari was far and away the best car in testing and the opening races, and the other teams have absolutely closed the gap.


    As for your second point. I agree that resources are needed. Ferrari SHOULD be in much better shape than other teams, since they haven't brought as many updates as other teams. But I've heard they are going to run out of money before the end of the season too. This alarms me, as it makes me think the factory is spending loads of resources on parts that are failing and don't even make it to the track.

    I do not think leadership is that heavily weighted to solving the problems. Binotto is the guy to make the decisions on which area gets the resources (right now engine reliability), but it's up to their engineers and designers to figure out the solution, and their manufacturing departments to build it properly.
    SS454, I thought you were calmer
    Ferrari and RB have built a strong rhythm advantage and I really don’t think the teams you mentioned have closed the gap, out of all their efforts
    In fact, I find what Aroutis says quite accurate
    Well, all right, we’re all disapointed, but we know now, Ferrari has been trying to get back to the top under these new rules, at the price of paying this year the engine advantage he’s been working to build
    If it’s hard for you, imagine how frustrating it is for Leclerc
    He has won 4 races since he is at Ferrari and has already lost as many on mechanical problems, and at least two others because of stategy
    For my part, and even if the title is not yet lost, I just hope that he will win a maximum of races, that he will get a maximum of poles and that he will have the right car... next year
    Sorry, but we have to be realistic... and just
    Remember from where we are coming from

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    Quote Originally Posted by SS454 View Post
    Can you actually say Ferrari's development has been as good as the teams mentioned?

    Red Bull, Mercedes, and Aston Martin have brought completely different body/packaging configs. Pretty much B spec cars.
    We've seen new floors from virtually every team.
    Alpine have made major changes to their side pods a couple times.
    Mercedes, Red Bull, and Alpine have brought many different wing configurations.
    Red Bull had reliability issues and have cleared those up.

    Ferrari on the other hand is still running the same body/sidepods since it's launch. It took them weeks to bring out the new floor which did not get rid of the porpoising, though certainly is an upgrade. They brought 1 proper updated rear wing, otherwise very minimal track specific aero configs. We saw a new mirror mounting config in Baku. They introduced a new spec PU, which apparently is unreliable.

    Look at a photo of the cars now vs launch, and Ferrari has changed very little in comparison to many of the other teams. And the performance gains from launch to now by other teams far exceeds Ferrari's. Ferrari was far and away the best car in testing and the opening races, and the other teams have absolutely closed the gap.


    As for your second point. I agree that resources are needed. Ferrari SHOULD be in much better shape than other teams, since they haven't brought as many updates as other teams. But I've heard they are going to run out of money before the end of the season too. This alarms me, as it makes me think the factory is spending loads of resources on parts that are failing and don't even make it to the track.

    I do not think leadership is that heavily weighted to solving the problems. Binotto is the guy to make the decisions on which area gets the resources (right now engine reliability), but it's up to their engineers and designers to figure out the solution, and their manufacturing departments to build it properly.
    Changing things for the sake of it is not a good idea.
    I don't care to see visual changes to the car, the only thing I care to see is change at the porpoising.
    IMHO the other teams need to get to where we are and that is a luxury we can afford cause we worked harder.
    "If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve

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    Quote Originally Posted by PURE PASSION View Post
    Really??!!!
    Merc and Alpine have close the gap???
    Ferrari brought no updates during testing. RBR and Merc both came out with B spec cars, Red Bull's was a significant step forward. Mercedes, on paper looked great, but nothing suggests it was actually all that much better. Either way, both teams had big updates before race 1, while Ferrari had none.

    Mercedes was terrible in comparison to Ferrari in Bahrain. 1.22% slower than Ferrari in quali, 1.75% slower in the race based on fastest laps. From Spain, after Ferrari's "huge update" Mercedes has had fastest race laps 2 of the 3 races, and has been closer in quali pace than they were in Bahrain or Saudi. Plus Merc has 100% points scoring in the last 3 races, including 2 podiums, while Ferrari has just 1 podium and 3 DNF's. Mercedes has closed the gap.

    Alpine was pretty fast in quali to start the season, but way off Ferrari in race pace. 2.29% and 1.6% in the first 2 races, plus very unreliable. Now Alpine are much more reliable,and their race pace is much closer to Ferrari. 2 of 3 races had better fastest laps, though their quali pace isn't much better. Alpine has 5 points scoring positions in the last 3 races. They likely will struggle in all the power races to come, as the Renault is still probably the worst engine on the grid. But I'd say enough suggests Alpine has improved more than Ferrari since the start of the year.

    Aston Martin was one of the worst cars. Bottom 2. Now they are competitive for points. Without question they have closed the gap to Ferrari.

    Red Bull are now consistently the stronger team in race pace, and their reliability is much better. It's at the point we likely have to concede they have the better car in the races, even though Ferrari (at least with Leclerc) still seems to be faster in outright pace.

    Ferrari were comfortably the best package to start the season. Now they are not and it seems like 2020 and 2021 when the drivers and team are overpushing and making mistakes.

    There is no question Ferrari are still competitive and capable of winning. They are far from out of the championships. I think we can all be encouraged by that, not deflated. But as far as the development battle, there is enough evidence to support other teams are doing a better job up to this point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aroutis View Post
    Changing things for the sake of it is not a good idea.
    I don't care to see visual changes to the car, the only thing I care to see is change at the porpoising.
    IMHO the other teams need to get to where we are and that is a luxury we can afford cause we worked harder.
    I 100% agree with you. Ferrari were the most sorted team going into race 1, and it paid off.

    However, to begin the season I was concerned that the Ferrari may not have the same potential to develop as other teams. While it's still quite early in the year, but so far it seems that may be true. Will the car be enough to win the championships? Time will tell. I think the car was so good, they didn't need massive changes to fix huge problems... at least until now with the PU reliability. With the upcoming tracks that need good straightline performance, lets hope Ferrari have enough to win races on merit.

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    Merc closer in qualifying??? if you ignore the last qualifying session I guess.....

    Closed the gap to Ferrari.....
    Forza Ferrari

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    Merc closer in qualifying??? if you ignore the last qualifying session I guess.....

    Closed the gap to Ferrari.....
    Except I proved it.

    Mercedes didn't close the gap since the beginning of testing? please
    Mercedes average quali speed in reference to Ferrari isnt better since Bahrain? ok sure.
    Mercedes race pace hasn't closed to Ferrari? Their laptimes suggest they have.
    Mercedes scoring points 100% of the time and maximized their points over the last 3 races while Ferrari has had 3 DNF's and threw away an easy win?

    Laugh all you want, facts don't care about your feelings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SS454 View Post
    I 100% agree with you. Ferrari were the most sorted team going into race 1, and it paid off.

    However, to begin the season I was concerned that the Ferrari may not have the same potential to develop as other teams. While it's still quite early in the year, but so far it seems that may be true. Will the car be enough to win the championships? Time will tell. I think the car was so good, they didn't need massive changes to fix huge problems... at least until now with the PU reliability. With the upcoming tracks that need good straightline performance, lets hope Ferrari have enough to win races on merit.
    I stay to facts (it's my job).
    So if we stick to facts:
    We have the best straight speed along with RBR (I am talking top teams)
    We have the best tyre handling
    We have the most drivable engine and the most powerful engine according to several pundits at least
    Those are the pros
    Biggest worry, is since PU2 introduction, is of course the reliability of the engine, which at least in my opinion can and should be sorted out.

    So I do wait for the championship to conclude in order to say if the car had potential etc. The way I see it, we have a completely different approach to the other teams, we used 2 years to understand the rules and build on them which is evident to the car. The fact we don't bring updates to the car at the same pace as others is not a bad thing, it is a good thing. It means we got our stuff right and we are also managing in order for next year.
    If we did not have our PU issues, we 'd be in a much better position, don't let this elude us. But this is just 8th race.
    "If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve

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    Mercedes didn't close the gap since the beginning of testing? please
    Per Toto Wolff, their car is a sh**box. So no. I don't see how they did. Right now they have a great driver (RUS) who overdrives the car and good for them, but their car is a pathetic POS IMHO.
    Mercedes scoring points 100% of the time and maximized their points over the last 3 races while Ferrari has had 3 DNF's and threw away an easy win?
    The only good thing they have going is the reliability of their engine, otherwise , they are the personification of bouncing , they still are nowhere as drivable as Ferrari or RBR , and they 're pushing for changing the regulations cause they lack answers.
    "If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve

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    [QUOTE=aroutis;1063674] Right now they have a great driver (RUS) who overdrives the car and good for them, IMHO.

    Isn't that trolling? Acknowledging a Merc driver as great on our Ferrari forum?
    Last edited by Brembo; 15th June 2022 at 12:05.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aroutis View Post
    I stay to facts (it's my job).
    So if we stick to facts:
    We have the best straight speed along with RBR (I am talking top teams)
    We have the best tyre handling
    We have the most drivable engine and the most powerful engine according to several pundits at least
    Those are the pros
    Biggest worry, is since PU2 introduction, is of course the reliability of the engine, which at least in my opinion can and should be sorted out.

    So I do wait for the championship to conclude in order to say if the car had potential etc. The way I see it, we have a completely different approach to the other teams, we used 2 years to understand the rules and build on them which is evident to the car. The fact we don't bring updates to the car at the same pace as others is not a bad thing, it is a good thing. It means we got our stuff right and we are also managing in order for next year.
    If we did not have our PU issues, we 'd be in a much better position, don't let this elude us. But this is just 8th race.
    couldn't agree with you more, and if the Fizzy Drink guys didn't leave us in the dust in Baku, where can they?

    and like i said earlier, we had to come from so far behind on the power unit. putting performance over reliability IS THE CORRECT thing to do for this PU freeze period. We just have to be almost perfect the rest of the season unfortunately to have a shot at this year. But the chance is still very much there, because like you say, we really don't have any other weaknesses.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SS454 View Post
    Can you actually say Ferrari's development has been as good as the teams mentioned?

    Red Bull, Mercedes, and Aston Martin have brought completely different body/packaging configs. Pretty much B spec cars.
    We've seen new floors from virtually every team.
    Alpine have made major changes to their side pods a couple times.
    Mercedes, Red Bull, and Alpine have brought many different wing configurations.
    Red Bull had reliability issues and have cleared those up.

    Ferrari on the other hand is still running the same body/sidepods since it's launch. It took them weeks to bring out the new floor which did not get rid of the porpoising, though certainly is an upgrade. They brought 1 proper updated rear wing, otherwise very minimal track specific aero configs. We saw a new mirror mounting config in Baku. They introduced a new spec PU, which apparently is unreliable.

    Look at a photo of the cars now vs launch, and Ferrari has changed very little in comparison to many of the other teams. And the performance gains from launch to now by other teams far exceeds Ferrari's. Ferrari was far and away the best car in testing and the opening races, and the other teams have absolutely closed the gap.


    As for your second point. I agree that resources are needed. Ferrari SHOULD be in much better shape than other teams, since they haven't brought as many updates as other teams. But I've heard they are going to run out of money before the end of the season too. This alarms me, as it makes me think the factory is spending loads of resources on parts that are failing and don't even make it to the track.

    I do not think leadership is that heavily weighted to solving the problems. Binotto is the guy to make the decisions on which area gets the resources (right now engine reliability), but it's up to their engineers and designers to figure out the solution, and their manufacturing departments to build it properly.


    But Ferrari did bring some big updates that worked pretty well. They put us back on level and maybe even in front of Red Bull in the last races. Just because the car doesn't look different doesn't mean it isn't.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS454 View Post
    Can you actually say Ferrari's development has been as good as the teams mentioned?

    Red Bull, Mercedes, and Aston Martin have brought completely different body/packaging configs. Pretty much B spec cars.
    We've seen new floors from virtually every team.
    Alpine have made major changes to their side pods a couple times.
    Mercedes, Red Bull, and Alpine have brought many different wing configurations.
    Red Bull had reliability issues and have cleared those up.

    Ferrari on the other hand is still running the same body/sidepods since it's launch. It took them weeks to bring out the new floor which did not get rid of the porpoising, though certainly is an upgrade. They brought 1 proper updated rear wing, otherwise very minimal track specific aero configs. We saw a new mirror mounting config in Baku. They introduced a new spec PU, which apparently is unreliable.

    Look at a photo of the cars now vs launch, and Ferrari has changed very little in comparison to many of the other teams. And the performance gains from launch to now by other teams far exceeds Ferrari's. Ferrari was far and away the best car in testing and the opening races, and the other teams have absolutely closed the gap.


    As for your second point. I agree that resources are needed. Ferrari SHOULD be in much better shape than other teams, since they haven't brought as many updates as other teams. But I've heard they are going to run out of money before the end of the season too. This alarms me, as it makes me think the factory is spending loads of resources on parts that are failing and don't even make it to the track.

    I do not think leadership is that heavily weighted to solving the problems. Binotto is the guy to make the decisions on which area gets the resources (right now engine reliability), but it's up to their engineers and designers to figure out the solution, and their manufacturing departments to build it properly.


    But Ferrari did bring some big updates that worked pretty well. They put us back on level and maybe even in front of Red Bull in the last races. Just because the car doesn't look different doesn't mean it isn't.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Bob View Post
    But Ferrari did bring some big updates that worked pretty well. They put us back on level and maybe even in front of Red Bull in the last races. Just because the car doesn't look different doesn't mean it isn't.
    2 DNFs worked pretty well ?

  27. #27
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    Charles' poles and Carlos' progress point towards improvements being effective but reliability and tactics are what let
    them down and I'm sure those are what our team knows it must work on.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by aroutis View Post
    I stay to facts (it's my job).
    So if we stick to facts:
    We have the best straight speed along with RBR (I am talking top teams)
    We have the best tyre handling
    We have the most drivable engine and the most powerful engine according to several pundits at least
    Those are the pros
    Biggest worry, is since PU2 introduction, is of course the reliability of the engine, which at least in my opinion can and should be sorted out.

    So I do wait for the championship to conclude in order to say if the car had potential etc. The way I see it, we have a completely different approach to the other teams, we used 2 years to understand the rules and build on them which is evident to the car. The fact we don't bring updates to the car at the same pace as others is not a bad thing, it is a good thing. It means we got our stuff right and we are also managing in order for next year.
    If we did not have our PU issues, we 'd be in a much better position, don't let this elude us. But this is just 8th race.
    I'm not sure I'd agree that Ferrari has the best straight line speed. In Baku, Verstappen hit 341 kph on his best Q3 lap, and Leclerc did 330 kph. Verstappen gained 4 tenths on the long straight alone. That's a huge advantage.

    Tyre handling, i assume you mean wear? Again, not sure Ferrari is the best, as some races they really struggle. Red Bull definitely struggled to begin the season, but seem to have a handle on it now.

    Most driveable engine, and most powerful. I think that's true. The Ferrari engine always shows very good in acceleration and I think the car in general is the most driveable with the widest operating window. Mercedes having probably the narrowest.

    The car is very very good. My question is what is the potential to be how much faster/better. This I have some worries about.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Bob View Post
    But Ferrari did bring some big updates that worked pretty well. They put us back on level and maybe even in front of Red Bull in the last races. Just because the car doesn't look different doesn't mean it isn't.
    The PU2 could be considered a big update, however long term it's hurting them with reliability.

    The Spain update was a proper big update which really was just the floor and an alteration in rear wing design which helped the DRS performance.

    In Baku they had a tiny update to the mirror.

    Thats really it. The teams have to report what changes come to each race, so it's just not that we can't spot the updates, there are very few that Ferrari have reported compared to some other teams.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS454 View Post
    The PU2 could be considered a big update, however long term it's hurting them with reliability.

    The Spain update was a proper big update which really was just the floor and an alteration in rear wing design which helped the DRS performance.

    In Baku they had a tiny update to the mirror.

    Thats really it. The teams have to report what changes come to each race, so it's just not that we can't spot the updates, there are very few that Ferrari have reported compared to some other teams.
    Mercedes have brought tons of updates with minimal success. Many changes to wings, floor and defuser, sidepods, and were about 1 second off the pace still. Renault and McLaren have done tons of updates with mixed success as well. Updates don't always work, and even Red Bull don't always get them right.

    Ferrari actually updated the floor once and the rear wing twice, with a set of new mirrors.

    The advantage of the Red Bull is better tire wear and straight line speed, and better reliability. The car is also more compatible with small updates. Ferrari's advantage is in cornering and acceleration off the corners. Red Bull closed that gap in Imola, but Ferrari regained the advantage in cornering in Barcelona, and closed the gap in straight line speed in Baku. Unfortunately, reliability and horrid pit strategy screwed Leclerc in all three races and so the results overshadow that improvement.

    The only good news is that Bryne is back to leading Ferrari chassis updates, and pace wise it showed in Barcelona and Baku. Just have to get the engine department and pit wall cleaned up, and race wins will return.

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