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Thread: 2022 Canadian Grand Prix - Buildup, Practice & Qualifying Thread

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cavallino View Post
    Excessive heat is causing the valves to disintegrate into the turbo through the exhaust?

    best thing about that is it explains Spain AND Baku.
    yeah but how you fix that is the issue

    redesign? new parts ? different engine map ?

    quickest fix is the last one but will it be with compromise on max hp ?

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by subfire91 View Post
    yeah but how you fix that is the issue

    redesign? new parts ? different engine map ?

    quickest fix is the last one but will it be with compromise on max hp ?
    well earlier reports said it was a part that was not considered at risk and from a third party supplier. Perhaps a bad batch of valves? That's the best case scenario.

    Another solution is cooling through aero, but that also usually sacrifices performance.

    and were they not able to tell the valves were disintegrating after Spain?

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cavallino View Post
    well earlier reports said it was a part that was not considered at risk and from a third party supplier. Perhaps a bad batch of valves? That's the best case scenario.

    Another solution is cooling through aero, but that also usually sacrifices performance.

    and were they not able to tell the valves were disintegrating after Spain?

    They are going to be using less aggressive engine maps or use more fuel to cool the engine on the post injection phase. That means going back PU1 power output or keep the PU2 power and use more lift and coast in races or we risk not finishing the race.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cavallino View Post
    Excessive heat is causing the valves to disintegrate into the turbo through the exhaust?

    best thing about that is it explains Spain AND Baku.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cavallino View Post
    well earlier reports said it was a part that was not considered at risk and from a third party supplier. Perhaps a bad batch of valves? That's the best case scenario.

    Another solution is cooling through aero, but that also usually sacrifices performance.

    and were they not able to tell the valves were disintegrating after Spain?
    If a valve had been damaged in Spain, they would not have been able to use the engine in Baku

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilles View Post
    If a valve had been damaged in Spain, they would not have been able to use the engine in Baku
    but the valve disintegration caused the issue with the turbo in Spain. why couldn't they tell the valve was somehow damaged after inspection? That's what I'm saying.
    Last edited by Cavallino; 15th June 2022 at 21:26.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by TTRSMAD View Post
    They are going to be using less aggressive engine maps or use more fuel to cool the engine on the post injection phase. That means going back PU1 power output or keep the PU2 power and use more lift and coast in races or we risk not finishing the race.
    nothing wrong with lift and coast for fuel comsumption purposes if we build up enough of a lead, or get some safety car periods then no need for lift and coast which is probably in Canada

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cavallino View Post
    nothing wrong with lift and coast for fuel comsumption purposes if we build up enough of a lead, or get some safety car periods then no need for lift and coast which is probably in Canada
    I agree, that is why we need Sainz to start doing his job and challenging the Red Bull.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cavallino View Post
    but the valve disintegration caused the issue with the turbo in Spain. why couldn't they tell the valve was somehow damaged after inspection? That's what I'm saying.
    If a valve had damaged Leclerc' PU2 in Spain, then they would have had to repair the PU2 to use it in Baku, probably with a damaged cylinder head and possibly even a piston, it seems to me that this is not allowed.
    It seems to me that it is the mgu-h which damaged the turbo in Spain (then damaged by heat), without any damage on the ICE

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilles View Post
    If a valve had damaged Leclerc' PU2 in Spain, then they would have had to repair the PU2 to use it in Baku, probably with a damaged cylinder head and possibly even a piston, it seems to me that this is not allowed.
    It seems to me that it is the mgu-h which damaged the turbo in Spain (then damaged by heat), without any damage on the ICE
    ah, i was under the impression that the failure in Spain and Baku are both related to the valve problem.

    which would be better because then we still need a solution for the mgu-h

    luckily temperatures should be cooler in Montreal and Silverstone

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilles View Post
    If a valve had damaged Leclerc' PU2 in Spain, then they would have had to repair the PU2 to use it in Baku, probably with a damaged cylinder head and possibly even a piston, it seems to me that this is not allowed.
    It seems to me that it is the mgu-h which damaged the turbo in Spain (then damaged by heat), without any damage on the ICE
    What valve (s) were damaged??? Exhaust or Intake??? Usually when a valve or valves get damaged or bent means it is usually a timing issue--> meaning the cam gear (again either exhaust or intake) skipped a tooth or two there-by bending the valve(s) or damaging the valve(s) by hitting the top of the cylinder head.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cavallino View Post
    ah, i was under the impression that the failure in Spain and Baku are both related to the valve problem.

    which would be better because then we still need a solution for the mgu-h

    luckily temperatures should be cooler in Montreal and Silverstone
    And If the theory is that a valve was thermally damaged in Spain by the turbo (in the case of mechanical damage it would have been obligatory seen), it does not make sense too, in my opinion.
    Last edited by Gilles; 15th June 2022 at 22:05.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    What valve (s) were damaged??? Exhaust or Intake??? Usually when a valve or valves get damaged or bent means it is usually a timing issue--> meaning the cam gear (again either exhaust or intake) skipped a tooth or two there-by bending the valve(s) or damaging the valve(s) by hitting the top of the cylinder head.
    In Baku, we do not know if it is a valve problem, I think someone has been looking for a link between the turbo and the ICE and has issued this theory. Without necessary looking for any distribution timing issue, it is possible that an element broke in the combustion chamber or air intake and destroyed the turbo (and probably valve(s) on it's way) . It can be a valve itself, but it can also be a ring or something else
    All we know for now is that it was not a critical part and it was a different issue from the Spain one
    Last edited by Gilles; 15th June 2022 at 22:25.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilles View Post
    And If the theory is that a valve was thermally damaged in Spain by the turbo (in the case of mechanical damage it would have been obligatory seen), it does not make sense too, in my opinion.
    part of the problem is my weak translation abilities of the youtube video. From what i gather it said, high heat caused the disintegration of the valve material, and the debris traveled through the exhaust into the turbo.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cavallino View Post
    part of the problem is my weak translation abilities of the youtube video. From what i gather it said, high heat caused the disintegration of the valve material, and the debris traveled through the exhaust into the turbo.
    The video was implying that on the post injection phase because of tracks like Baku and Spain where your on power most of the time. Ferrari is using less fuel on the post injection phase to cool the engine thus overheating the chamber and damaging the valve which in this case started to break and parts of it going in the turbo and damaging it as well. The reason for using less fuel to cool the chamber is to save and keep some of it to stay on power for more time during the GP.
    The mapping was aggressive to compete with Red Bull that is why Maxipad could not touch us on the straight even with DRS that and LDW helped too of course.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by TTRSMAD View Post
    The video was implying that on the post injection phase because of tracks like Baku and Spain where your on power most of the time. Ferrari is using less fuel on the post injection phase to cool the engine thus overheating the chamber and damaging the valve which in this case started to break and parts of it going in the turbo and damaging it as well. The reason for using less fuel to cool the chamber is to save and keep some of it to stay on power for more time during the GP.
    The mapping was aggressive to compete with Red Bull that is why Maxipad could not touch us on the straight even with DRS that and LDW helped too of course.
    Yes, which mean the failures for Leclerc in Baku and Spain ARE related. And can be fixed by lift and coast, less aggressive mappings, or more cooling from the outside.

  16. #46
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    What is the weather forecast for Canadian GP? Hopefuly dry.

  17. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cavallino View Post
    part of the problem is my weak translation abilities of the youtube video. From what i gather it said, high heat caused the disintegration of the valve material, and the debris traveled through the exhaust into the turbo.
    Possible for Baku, but not for Spain : Ice was not damaged in spain, then turbo issue can't be relative to valves there

  18. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by TTRSMAD View Post
    The video was implying that on the post injection phase because of tracks like Baku and Spain where your on power most of the time. Ferrari is using less fuel on the post injection phase to cool the engine thus overheating the chamber and damaging the valve which in this case started to break and parts of it going in the turbo and damaging it as well. The reason for using less fuel to cool the chamber is to save and keep some of it to stay on power for more time during the GP.
    The mapping was aggressive to compete with Red Bull that is why Maxipad could not touch us on the straight even with DRS that and LDW helped too of course.
    Cooling the combustion chamber with fuel is usual and gives more power, so I doubt they have reduced it so simply

  19. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cavallino View Post
    Yes, which mean the failures for Leclerc in Baku and Spain ARE related. And can be fixed by lift and coast, less aggressive mappings, or more cooling from the outside.
    Not if you follow the logic as well as the Ferrari statements
    In addition, air cooling cannot be added to obtain this type of cooling.

  20. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    Hopefully those that don't care just keep away for the weekend then

    Ferrari 1-2
    Right on.
    Jesus. So typical , so the team got slapped on the face. Hey , let's stop fighting and bring on 2023, why not? Right?
    "If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve

  21. #51
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    Remember there parts of the engine were run at pre season testing in much cooler conditions. The temp in Spain and Baku were much hotter the slightest fault in the piston cylinder champers will cause this to fail dramatically when being run at high speeds combined with hotter temps.I believe the fix is not to complex.I expect ferrari to come back strongly.

  22. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by TTRSMAD View Post
    I agree, that is why we need Sainz to start doing his job and challenging the Red Bull.
    As long as Ferrari gives him a car to challenge with I believe he will b right up there with the best. He really wants to be with Ferrari!

  23. #53
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    well earlier reports said it was a part that was not considered at risk and from a third party supplier.
    That is what is reported and the foul thing about this, is the certification of said part was made by the supplier themselves. You are bound to go wrong with such practice. And lo and behold, what has happened.

    IMHO, they need to fix the issue and find a certification process that involves someone trustworthy outside the supplier.
    "If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve

  24. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by TTRSMAD View Post
    They are going to be using less aggressive engine maps or use more fuel to cool the engine on the post injection phase. That means going back PU1 power output or keep the PU2 power and use more lift and coast in races or we risk not finishing the race.
    I have heard they're going on PU3.
    "If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve

  25. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by stefa View Post
    What is the weather forecast for Canadian GP? Hopefuly dry.
    so far the weather man says its only gonna be 18 degrees and cloudy wiht showers on Saturday and then 21 on race day.....so a LOT cooler then in Baku or spain when we had PU related issues....so that may help

  26. #56
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    Well first of all we may well need rain and hope Verstappen spins off or something. Wild hail mary to catch the gap.

  27. #57
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    Ferrari 1 -2 in in qualifying is for sure but am not so hopeful for the race result.
    Quote Originally Posted by aroutis View Post
    Right on.
    Jesus. So typical , so the team got slapped on the face. Hey , let's stop fighting and bring on 2023, why not? Right?

  28. #58
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    I think it's fine to accept that we do not have a car capable of winning the championships. Let's hope we can keep Merc behind us.
    Forza Ferrari
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  29. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by ntukza View Post
    I think it's fine to accept that we do not have a car capable of winning the championships. Let's hope we can keep Merc behind us.
    It seems that way, at least with our reliability issues we have as well as penalties that Charles may encounter when getting extra power unit related parts later in the season

    If we get more wins and give Maxipad a run for his money this season while we concentrate on bringing a beast of an engine and refine our car concept package even more for 2023 I’d be really happy....@nd hopefully that will be a beast

    Of course I really wanted us to win this season especially after the promising winter tests as well as the good start of the year....

    Oh well, it is what it is

  30. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by FerrariF60 View Post
    It seems that way, at least with our reliability issues we have as well as penalties that Charles may encounter when getting extra power unit related parts later in the season

    If we get more wins and give Maxipad a run for his money this season while we concentrate on bringing a beast of an engine and refine our car concept package even more for 2023 I’d be really happy....@nd hopefully that will be a beast

    Of course I really wanted us to win this season especially after the promising winter tests as well as the good start of the year....

    Oh well, it is what it is
    Charles has already broken 2 turbos
    If on the PU3 they put a new turbo, it will be the fourth and Charles will be penalized already in Canada
    They can also remove the turbo from friday's PU1 to put it on the PU2 the saturday

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