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Thread: FIA to change rules to stop porpoising....

  1. #1
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    FIA to change rules to stop porpoising....

    https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/fia-intervenes-on-f1-porpoising-with-directive-under-safety-grounds/10323157/

    https://www.planetf1.com/news/fia-announces-technical-directive-porpoising/


    Wonder who this will help the most.....

    Guess it will hurt Red Bull the most? Seems really unfair though on those who spent money to solve the problem.....
    Forza Ferrari

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    I think all of them are suffering from porpoising, but some are definitely suffering more.

    I don't know how this new rule will play it's part for us but I do know that, Binotto has been talking about solving the porpoising issue since the winter testing. But we still have no definite answer to solve it. Ferrari have tried various floor iterations but all of them failed to achieve that goal. The rumor is that, they will introduce a new rear suspension at the 2nd half. Which is the way to go because I think porpoising can be solved mechanically.

    But 2nd half could be anything. It could be Spa, it could be Singapore, it could be Suzuka. Still months away.

    Right now, we are in a desperate situation. Can't afford to sit around and wait for others to run out of development money. We need upgrades first, upgrades that will reduce the bouncing and allow us to take full benefits of ground effect.
    Last edited by tifosi1993; 16th June 2022 at 17:49.

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    Shut down all races until the porpoising is fixed. It will be cured in 48 hrs!

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    This can easily be solved by raising the cars but Mercedes are having Hamilton and Russel cry about it so that the FIA solve the problem for them.

    They should penalize teams on individual basis and not the whole paddock. If a team oscillates too much they need to raise the height of the car and if they keep doing it you black flag them until they raise the car or find a solution.

    Mercedes and their dirty tricks, can't stand them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TTRSMAD View Post
    This can easily be solved by raising the cars but Mercedes are having Hamilton and Russel cry about it so that the FIA solve the problem for them.

    They should penalize teams on individual basis and not the whole paddock. If a team oscillates too much they need to raise the height of the car and if they keep doing it you black flag them until they raise the car or find a solution.

    Mercedes and their dirty tricks, can't stand them.
    You should read again what the FIA said actually.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    You should read again what the FIA said actually.
    Ya, I read it and I don't like the part: The FIA adds: “In addition to these short-term measures, the FIA will convene a technical meeting with the teams in order to define measures that will reduce the propensity of cars to exhibit such phenomena in the medium term.”

    Which will try to lead to a minimum height requirement which is trying to save Mercedes.

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    I’m sure Red Bull Bull will complain about this big time
    If Merc wants no porpoising then just raise the height of the car, sure they’ll be slow but cry baby Hamster won’t be complaining about back problems ever again…..lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by FerrariF60 View Post
    I’m sure Red Bull Bull will complain about this big time
    If Merc wants no porpoising then just raise the height of the car, sure they’ll be slow but cry baby Hamster won’t be complaining about back problems ever again…..lol
    He is the only driver on the grid that was playing theater holding is back after the race. He should go ask Verstappen how felt last year when he crashed him at Silverstone. I can't wait for him to retire.

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    Oh look, FIA bailing Merc out again. All they have to do is raise their car and lose lap time and the oscillations will be greatly reduced. Instead, they want the teams who did a better job to be hurt.

    F1 stopped being a sport a long time ago but this is just ridiculous.
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    Think I have got it wrong, think the FIA are saying if your car is bouncing around too much then you have to raise the ride height or face being black flagged?
    Forza Ferrari

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    Think I have got it wrong, think the FIA are saying if your car is bouncing around too much then you have to raise the ride height or face being black flagged?
    Then I have no problems with that….bouncing problems???? Raise your damn ride height

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    Quote Originally Posted by TTRSMAD View Post

    Which will try to lead to a minimum height requirement which is trying to save Mercedes.
    yup. What are the chances they set the minimum height just until Mercedes stops porpoising? This will especially hurt Red Bull and Ferrari and suddenly bring Mercedes into the mix.

    I dont like the FIA stepping in on the matter at all mid season, it isn't fair to the teams that solved the issue, or have spent so much of their resources to get the car as low as possible. Even if the FIA monitor each team by load sensors to detect a certain amount of oscillation, all the teams will likely fall back from Red Bull, which means Ferrari will likely no longer be part of the championship.

    Maybe they could allow for an active aero stall device that effectively reduces the diffuser downforce above 300 kph, or 280, or whatever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TTRSMAD View Post
    Ya, I read it and I don't like the part: The FIA adds: “In addition to these short-term measures, the FIA will convene a technical meeting with the teams in order to define measures that will reduce the propensity of cars to exhibit such phenomena in the medium term.”

    Which will try to lead to a minimum height requirement which is trying to save Mercedes.
    Feel free to point out the minimum ride height requirement quote because I can't find it. My interpretation is: The FIA will discuss a range of measures with the teams. Who knows, maybe we will see the return of active ride height adjustment system in F1.

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    From what I've gathered:

    The FIA will monitor vertical G-load for each car. If it goes over the safety threshold, the FIA will allow the teams to modify their setup until it becomes acceptable. If not, then they have to raise the ride height.

    To me, it sounds quite fair. Whose who have porpoising under control aren't going to be penalized. Those who are putting performance ahead of driver's health must adjust their setup/ride height.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    From what I've gathered:

    The FIA will monitor vertical G-load for each car. If it goes over the safety threshold, the FIA will allow the teams to modify their setup until it becomes acceptable. If not, then they have to raise the ride height.

    To me, it sounds quite fair. Whose who have porpoising under control aren't going to be penalized. Those who are putting performance ahead of driver's health must adjust their setup/ride height.
    I prefer that solution over a set minimum ride height. There are some details that will have to be ironed out, as hopefully they aren't so strict they force changes based off of half a second of porpoising at the end of a straight. I do feel this is the best and most fair solution until perhaps active aero or active suspension, or some other form of suspension trickery can be engineered (2023 at the earliest, since all the teams should have already started their design process on the 2023 cars)

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    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    Feel free to point out the minimum ride height requirement quote because I can't find it. My interpretation is: The FIA will discuss a range of measures with the teams. Who knows, maybe we will see the return of active ride height adjustment system in F1.
    10mm are the minimum ride height requirements.
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    I don't expect any intervention this weekend. Baku was an especially bumpy surface and it was the length of time drivers spent on the long straight that showed the most violent porpoising.

    Montreal won't be that way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RossTheBoss View Post
    I don't expect any intervention this weekend. Baku was an especially bumpy surface and it was the length of time drivers spent on the long straight that showed the most violent porpoising.

    Montreal won't be that way.
    Montreal has a pretty long straight too.

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    I think this actually hurts Ferrari and benefits RB unfortunately :(
    Rest in Peace Leza, you were a true warrior...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony View Post
    I think this actually hurts Ferrari and benefits RB unfortunately :(
    Yes, RB will benefit the most from this

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aziz View Post
    Yes, RB will benefit the most from this
    how?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    Think I have got it wrong, think the FIA are saying if your car is bouncing around too much then you have to raise the ride height or face being black flagged?
    Right on.
    This is one of those rare times that Merc tried something that turned to bite them in the @$$... :D
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    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    From what I've gathered:

    The FIA will monitor vertical G-load for each car. If it goes over the safety threshold, the FIA will allow the teams to modify their setup until it becomes acceptable. If not, then they have to raise the ride height.

    To me, it sounds quite fair. Whose who have porpoising under control aren't going to be penalized. Those who are putting performance ahead of driver's health must adjust their setup/ride height.
    Actually it's not allow ... it's enforce. The whole point of all this is that they need to get rid of bouncing, or make their cars bounce in acceptable levels.
    "If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony View Post
    I think this actually hurts Ferrari and benefits RB unfortunately :(
    Not necessarily; it depends on the porpoising levels and the g levels.
    "If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve

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    Quote Originally Posted by stasera View Post
    how?
    Since the technical directive has launched, I think you’ll see Red Bull in a much stronger position than they would’ve been coming into the weekend.

    If Ferrari are forced to raise the ride height (and Mercedes too), combined with their reliability concerns (even if they take the new unit for Charles) then they might even find themselves being drawn into the midfield. It may not show itself to that extent here in Canada, but in some upcoming races, Red Bull could very much be out in its own…

    Memories of Mercedes 2014-2016, 2020
    Last edited by Aziz; 17th June 2022 at 08:40.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aroutis View Post
    Actually it's not allow ... it's enforce. The whole point of all this is that they need to get rid of bouncing, or make their cars bounce in acceptable levels.
    They can't get rid of the bouncing, they can only mitigate it. Red Bull have already achieved that with their Bahrain test-2 upgrades.

    I think this new rule will benefit them the most. Which is fair, can't really fault them for doing a good job. Red Bull have been pretty relentless at bringing upgrades. In Baku they have brought another moderate upgrade package.

    Ferrari on the other hand are waiting for Red Bull to run out of development money, or I hope that's the case. Otherwise a single major upgrade so far looks pretty bad on paper, considering Red Bull have already brought four major upgrades.

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    Why would RedBull complain about this? They have literally 0 porpoising, so they don't have to change anything or am I wrong? I actually fear they will be so far ahead thanks to this, it will be insane. We on the other hand, suffer from porpoising a lot, so we will have to stop it which will cost us lap time. Or am I missing something?

    "If he can't do it with Ferrari, well, he can't do it." - John Surtees

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyss4k View Post
    Why would RedBull complain about this? They have literally 0 porpoising, so they don't have to change anything or am I wrong? I actually fear they will be so far ahead thanks to this, it will be insane. We on the other hand, suffer from porpoising a lot, so we will have to stop it which will cost us lap time. Or am I missing something?
    No, that's exactly how I see it too. Teams with porpoising that exceeds the threshold will have to reduce it or raise the ride height which will cost performance. Therefore teams who are porpoising will be the most affected.

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    More back door dealings for Merc…just leave F1 already

    https://www.planetf1.com/news/rivals...n-second-stay/
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    Quote Originally Posted by ferrari1.8t View Post
    More back door dealings for Merc…just leave F1 already

    https://www.planetf1.com/news/rivals...n-second-stay/
    Yep does sound like it.

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