2022 Canadian Grand Prix - Race Thread

[patrese86]

I think we will be good round Silverstone... whether that is good enough to beat RB who knows! But we are fine with high speed corners and quick changes of direction. I'd rather them than slower corners leading on to a long straight.

[PURE PASSION]

Carlos had fresher tyres and DRS.

6 lap freasher hard tires on empty tanks ,you dont call it much of an advantage!!!! If Max was faster he could easily pull away and stay out of drs !!! But he wasnt !! Carlos was faster even for just 1 tenth.

[Red is Best]

7 victories out of 9 for RB, and 6 out of 9 for Verstappen. Utter domination. We are simply no match for them.

[Kyss4k]

Ok, so I watched this race from recording and... where did our traction go? We had worse traction than Haas or Alfa Romeo! I was watching the onboards from the hairpin and while we were losing ground with both cars on EVERYONE coming out of it, other cars did not and some actually gained some. No wonder we couldn't overtake. Red Bull has the titles, that's done and dusted. We tried, but we are not good enough. Not even close. With 1 full year (at least) of development advantage, that's a sad statement to make.

[RossTheBoss]

Ok, so I watched this race from recording and... where did our traction go? We had worse traction than Haas or Alfa Romeo! I was watching the onboards from the hairpin and while we were losing ground with both cars on EVERYONE coming out of it, other cars did not and some actually gained some. No wonder we couldn't overtake. Red Bull has the titles, that's done and dusted. We tried, but we are not good enough. Not even close. With 1 full year (at least) of development advantage, that's a sad statement to make.

There's lots to rake Ferrari over the coals for, such as the clown show that was Monaco, holding some updates, and Sainz making so many mistakes. But faulting them for not building a car that's just straight up not as fast as Red Bull isn't it.

Look at Mercedes and Renault (I refuse to call them Alpine). They've got staff like Allison, who's built just as many great race cars as Newey, and he can't make that Mercedes stop porpoising, so it's not just Ferrari. The fact Ferrari had an extra year to develop means nothing. Real world is where the drawing board meets reality. Byrne has a lot to do with the F1-75 and he is equal to Newey in greatness (better in many regards) and I imagine his ideas are being used as fast as they can be.

When a team like Mercedes with brilliance like Allison and Costa can't solve porpoising, it should make Ferrari fans feel better that Byrne and Cardile actually did a good job. Obviously, I'd like the car to be a title caliber, but right now I'd just like to see the team get some wins like at the start of the season.

[RossTheBoss]

7 victories out of 9 for RB, and 6 out of 9 for Verstappen. Utter domination. We are simply no match for them.

Nope. And people are fulling themselves to think they are.

Ferrari need to concentrate on staying ahead of Mercedes in the WCC, and winning races again. Bring the updates as fast as possible at Silverstone and Spa, get Leclerc to where he can challenge for some race wins, and improve Sainz so he can be in the running for next year. Build the team. Sainz run today showed that he can go as fast Max, and that was an awesome surprise for me.

[Kyss4k]

There's lots to rake Ferrari over the coals for, such as the clown show that was Monaco, holding some updates, and Sainz making so many mistakes. But faulting them for not building a car that's just straight up not as fast as Red Bull isn't it.

Look at Mercedes and Renault (I refuse to call them Alpine). They've got staff like Allison, who's built just as many great race cars as Newey, and he can't make that Mercedes stop porpoising, so it's not just Ferrari. The fact Ferrari had an extra year to develop means nothing. Real world is where the drawing board meets reality. Byrne has a lot to do with the F1-75 and he is equal to Newey in greatness (better in many regards) and I imagine his ideas are being used as fast as they can be.

When a team like Mercedes with brilliance like Allison and Costa can't solve porpoising, it should make Ferrari fans feel better that Byrne and Cardile actually did a good job. Obviously, I'd like the car to be a title caliber, but right now I'd just like to see the team get some wins like at the start of the season.

1 year of headstart means nothing? What? You hear constantly that teams are giving up on a season to focus on the next one... if a headstart didn't matter they would not do it. Red Bull and Merc were fighting a development war until the last race last season. We had time and resources (more wind tunnel time allowance etc) to make the best car possible. Mercedes messed it up royally, Red Bull built a great car. But we should have been better. Way better. I am scared of next year, where we will not have these advantages anymore.

[RossTheBoss]

1 year of headstart means nothing? What? You hear constantly that teams are giving up on a season to focus on the next one... if a headstart didn't matter they would not do it. Red Bull and Merc were fighting a development war until the last race last season. We had time and resources (more wind tunnel time allowance etc) to make the best car possible. Mercedes messed it up royally, Red Bull built a great car. But we should have been better. Way better. I am scared of next year, where we will not have these advantages anymore.

Way better how? Where? Everyone ran simulations and used the resources they had. But when you bring these things to the real world, with technical regulations as different as these, it's no easy task.

Mercedes and Renault are also dealing with porpoising. They have great designers like Allison, they've brought way more updates than Ferrari, and they're no closer to resolving their problems, or catching up with Ferrari, and so that should tell you something about how simple it is for Ferrari to just close the gap to Red Bull.

[Ferrari312T4]

Well this could have been worse. Second and fifth, great drive by both. Verstappen was just out of reach. Let's not forget where we were for a couple of seasons. If only we can get our heads around the annoying bunny hopping. But our updates brought improvements. And engine wise i hope we can bring reliability upgrades.

[paolo lalli]

I agree Carlos mission accomplished the media in Italy will be kind to him, Charles wanted 4th as a maximum but he gets 5th mission almost accomplished.On brite note no engine issues.I expect a very fast ferrari in Silverstone with a competitive mercedes, still a long way to go in this f1 season with many twists and turns forthcoming, besides the fat lady has not started singing yet so strap yourselves in.Red bull are anticipating a resurgent mercedes and a super fast ferrari.

[stefa]

After first three races CL had 46 points advantage over MV. Now after 9 races MV has 49 points advantage over CL!!!?!?!?!?!?
Out of nine races Ferrari has just two wins, and Red Bull 7!!!!
Ferrari started good, probably caught Red Bull off-guard, but then Red Bull sorted themselves out and now they look unstoppable. They are not Ferrari and I don't see how will they allow to slip 49 points lead over CL?!?!? That is two wins for CL and two DNF for MV!!!! I know this is motorsport and everything is possible, but I just don't see it! Honestly if things ware different, CL to have 49 points lead over MV, I would be very much afraid, as history taught us many times over and over gain, what WS6TransAm01 said:
Ferrari is the only team capable of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory!

From this point it is not Ferrari championship to win, but Red Bull to loose it!

We go race by race, hoping we are going to be stronger, win some races, and who knows....

[aroutis]

1 year of headstart means nothing? What? You hear constantly that teams are giving up on a season to focus on the next one... if a headstart didn't matter they would not do it. Red Bull and Merc were fighting a development war until the last race last season. We had time and resources (more wind tunnel time allowance etc) to make the best car possible. Mercedes messed it up royally, Red Bull built a great car. But we should have been better. Way better. I am scared of next year, where we will not have these advantages anymore.

As usual ( yes, as usual ) you look things one sided.
And quite honestly this becomes quite tiresome.
Sure we invested one full year to develop this car and quite honestly we've done quite a good job.
But it is not the only thing we did. We also changed the structure of the team (and staff as well) where we had quite bad issues (and newsflash, still do).
Are we , as a team , experience etc at the same level as Merc and RBR?
Anyone who would say yes, must be fooling themselves. As a team that's rebuilding, we 're still learning. Which , is unavoidable, and to an extend a good thing.
But also, this comes with pain, mistakes and loss of points.
Eventually we'll get there. But nagging about it? Apart from perhaps feeling good at the point when you nag, it makes no difference.

[aroutis]

I agree Carlos mission accomplished the media in Italy will be kind to him, Charles wanted 4th as a maximum but he gets 5th mission almost accomplished.On brite note no engine issues.I expect a very fast ferrari in Silverstone with a competitive mercedes, still a long way to go in this f1 season with many twists and turns forthcoming, besides the fat lady has not started singing yet so strap yourselves in.Red bull are anticipating a resurgent mercedes and a super fast ferrari.

Actually I have a slightly different outlook:
Both drivers finished with no issues, which is a different thing to say compared to the last races.
Both drivers drove stelar races and this will work marvels to their psychology as well as to the team.

The way I see it, sure we could 've won the race, but I will gladly take this as well. Team needs to keep working for that engine update that will solve whatever issues and move on to the next race.

[aroutis]

The way to judge tyre management is to compare with other drivers. I don't recall anyone destroying their hard tyres so there's no basis to say CL managed them well. Everyone including CL complained about lack of grip on the hards.

Coming from P19 to 6 (if I recall correctly) , will do that to your tyres.
I don't see how that is bad tyre management.

[PURE PASSION]

As usual ( yes, as usual ) you look things one sided.
And quite honestly this becomes quite tiresome.
Sure we invested one full year to develop this car and quite honestly we've done quite a good job.
But it is not the only thing we did. We also changed the structure of the team (and staff as well) where we had quite bad issues (and newsflash, still do).
Are we , as a team , experience etc at the same level as Merc and RBR?
Anyone who would say yes, must be fooling themselves. As a team that's rebuilding, we 're still learning. Which , is unavoidable, and to an extend a good thing.
But also, this comes with pain, mistakes and loss of points.
Eventually we'll get there. But nagging about it? Apart from perhaps feeling good at the point when you nag, it makes no difference.

My thoughts exactly!!!!! Not about arguing with other members here, but for the general idea/ expectations!!!!!
I hurts, I was expected a bit more but it's not that bad (apart the actual points ).We had more costly dnfs then RedBull and partly this is that makes the point difference so big. (It's one thing to lose a 2nd place and another a first and the opponent to grab your win) The 2 dnfs of Max cost him 36 points and Leclerc's 64 (50 of the win he lost + 14 that Max got more in each race from moving from 2nd to 1st).From this alone he lost 28 more points for the same reason( DNF)
SO ok I agree that right now we are not the best team to handle the championship pressure but as you that (and a lot of peaple forget) as a team we are still young. And things are not over yet and they can always start coming to our way !!!!

[Brembo]

Given a good car and Carlos is right up there with the top drivers. Ferrari may well still be in it!!

[nani_s23]

My thoughts exactly!!!!! Not about arguing with other members here, but for the general idea/ expectations!!!!!
I hurts, I was expected a bit more but it's not that bad (apart the actual points ).We had more costly dnfs then RedBull and partly this is that makes the point difference so big. (It's one thing to lose a 2nd place and another a first and the opponent to grab your win) The 2 dnfs of Max cost him 36 points and Leclerc's 64 (50 of the win he lost + 14 that Max got more in each race from moving from 2nd to 1st).From this alone he lost 28 more points for the same reason( DNF)
SO ok I agree that right now we are not the best team to handle the championship pressure but as you that (and a lot of peaple forget) as a team we are still young. And things are not over yet and they can always start coming to our way !!!!

One DNF from Max & continuous 1-2 finish from Ferrari in next races will shred that lead.
But the question is that really possible? Given RB reliability I won’t discount anytime soon.

1-2 finishes? I expect Carlos to step up the game. He was good in Canada.

Hope he continues the same form.

Our pit strategy & crew they need to be perfect. This year I see more of SC’s impact in the race wins. We need to keep our options open In terms of tyre management & right set for race.

[Brembo]

[QUOTE=nani_s23;1064405]One DNF from Max & continuous 1-2 finish from Ferrari in next races will shred that lead.
But the question is that really possible? Given RB reliability I won’t discount anytime soon.

1-2 finishes? I expect Carlos to step up the game. He was good in Canada.

Hope he continues the same form.

Carlos stepped up his game because his car also made it through the race. There isn't much a driver can do without his car making it through. Both Ferrari drivers have what it takes for the WDC; WCC. Give them the car!!! Max + his car is what has him up front for now; not the driver.

[aroutis]

One DNF from Max & continuous 1-2 finish from Ferrari in next races will shred that lead.
But the question is that really possible? Given RB reliability I won’t discount anytime soon.

1-2 finishes? I expect Carlos to step up the game. He was good in Canada.

Hope he continues the same form.

Our pit strategy & crew they need to be perfect. This year I see more of SC’s impact in the race wins. We need to keep our options open In terms of tyre management & right set for race.

Quite honestly, everything is possible.
This is racing. RB can have a bad race, they could bring an update that won't work, and simply, VER could just have an off day.
What wears me off the most, is the mentality of the average tifoso who once we get into trouble, we start blaming the team (incl. the drivers) and we're writing off the championships.

Racing is not like that. And I understand why that happens, does not take a brainiac. However, if one enjoys racing and wants to be a tifoso, they should realize that being a Ferrari is not about the glory days but racing and days like yesterday, how Charles came from 19 to 5 which was quite the fit, like how Carlos finally found at least part of himself and finished 2nd, how they both overcame psychological pressure, and it will be even better once the team will fix the issues with the engine and attack back.

Ferrari is all about overcoming the adversaries. Not the easy victories.

[wisepie]

I'm grateful that both cars finished and both drivers should be credited with holding on in there, Charles was stuck behind Ocon and unable to get traction when needed, Carlos did give Max a run for his money which was good to see and will have given him a boost in confidence. Without the long pit-stop, avoiding being stuck behind ALO/OCO, Charles surely could have fought for P3, only the last SC brought the Mercs up close to the front. We need some wins and 1-2s if we are to overcome the Max overkill. And RUS isn't far behind Charles, ffs!

[Cavallino]

I'm grateful that both cars finished and both drivers should be credited with holding on in there, Charles was stuck behind Ocon and unable to get traction when needed, Carlos did give Max a run for his money which was good to see and will have given him a boost in confidence. Without the long pit-stop, avoiding being stuck behind ALO/OCO, Charles surely could have fought for P3, only the last SC brought the Mercs up close to the front. We need some wins and 1-2s if we are to overcome the Max overkill. And RUS isn't far behind Charles, ffs!

which race did you watch?

[Cavallino]

As usual ( yes, as usual ) you look things one sided.
And quite honestly this becomes quite tiresome.
Sure we invested one full year to develop this car and quite honestly we've done quite a good job.
But it is not the only thing we did. We also changed the structure of the team (and staff as well) where we had quite bad issues (and newsflash, still do).
Are we , as a team , experience etc at the same level as Merc and RBR?
Anyone who would say yes, must be fooling themselves. As a team that's rebuilding, we 're still learning. Which , is unavoidable, and to an extend a good thing.
But also, this comes with pain, mistakes and loss of points.
Eventually we'll get there. But nagging about it? Apart from perhaps feeling good at the point when you nag, it makes no difference.

you've been on fire the last week or so with your posts. Optimistic while still being realistic, but most importantly factual and logical. Thank You.

[Kyss4k]

As usual ( yes, as usual ) you look things one sided.
And quite honestly this becomes quite tiresome.
Sure we invested one full year to develop this car and quite honestly we've done quite a good job.
But it is not the only thing we did. We also changed the structure of the team (and staff as well) where we had quite bad issues (and newsflash, still do).
Are we , as a team , experience etc at the same level as Merc and RBR?
Anyone who would say yes, must be fooling themselves. As a team that's rebuilding, we 're still learning. Which , is unavoidable, and to an extend a good thing.
But also, this comes with pain, mistakes and loss of points.
Eventually we'll get there. But nagging about it? Apart from perhaps feeling good at the point when you nag, it makes no difference.

I'm sorry man, but you just show how low our (your) expectations have fallen. I expected an utter domination, just like Red Bull did since 2010 and Mercedes did since 2014. They were able to do it. We did not. And we had time advantage, resources everything in place. But whatever, call me however you want, but saying the same thing for last 14 years is tiresome as well. "The team is changing structure" how many times we did it in these 14 years? Like 4 times at least. We've heard stuff like "it's longterm project" from every team principal we've had and all of them failed. It's the same cycle again and again and this time I hoped it was our time. Yet we are going downhill again and I wasn't ready for that.

[Tifoso Svedese]

Carlos was maybe 0.2 s/lap faster in clean air due to the fresher tyres, that small difference is why he couldn't overtake. With no SC and him going to the end he'd been 0.7 s/lap slower or more and therefore struggled with traction even in clean air. However, once speed differentials are that small you can't get close enough coming out of a slow corner like that if the straight is that short. This doesn't really apply to 90-degree exits like Bahrain and Interlagos. If roles were reversed it would've been the same thing for the simple reason that when turning the car 180 degrees like that you will lose front downforce no matter what and then you can't get on the power early enough. If you're going to have a hairpin leading out onto a straight, you'll need 200 metres more for it to be truly overtaking-friendly even with these cars.

Leclerc was maybe 0.3 s/lap faster than Ocon on his older tyres and that still fell beneath that threshold. It cost 7-8 vital seconds though.

For this reason, I don't think we've lost anything on corner exit. It's just a dirty air factor. Austria should still be a great track for this car if it finds a way to not blow an engine in 85 minutes of driving.

[Cavallino]

f

I'm sorry man, but you just show how low our (your) expectations have fallen. I expected an utter domination, just like Red Bull did since 2010 and Mercedes did since 2014. They were able to do it. We did not. And we had time advantage, resources everything in place. But whatever, call me however you want, but saying the same thing for last 14 years is tiresome as well. "The team is changing structure" how many times we did it in these 14 years? Like 4 times at least. We've heard stuff like "it's longterm project" from every team principal we've had and all of them failed. It's the same cycle again and again and this time I hoped it was our time. Yet we are going downhill again and I wasn't ready for that.

do you have any idea how much windtunnel and CFD time is regulated? this "headstart" you speak of, doesn't exist.

oh, and the FIA carefully crafted and policed the regulations in such a way to insure "utter domination" didn't happen. But you're only paying attention to what you want to pay attention to.

And you're excuse that you're expectations are high doesn't justify you claiming we are miles behind Team Fizzy Drink

[Aziz]

Carlos was maybe 0.2 s/lap faster in clean air due to the fresher tyres, that small difference is why he couldn't overtake. With no SC and him going to the end he'd been 0.7 s/lap slower or more and therefore struggled with traction even in clean air. However, once speed differentials are that small you can't get close enough coming out of a slow corner like that if the straight is that short. This doesn't really apply to 90-degree exits like Bahrain and Interlagos. If roles were reversed it would've been the same thing for the simple reason that when turning the car 180 degrees like that you will lose front downforce no matter what and then you can't get on the power early enough. If you're going to have a hairpin leading out onto a straight, you'll need 200 metres more for it to be truly overtaking-friendly even with these cars.

Leclerc was maybe 0.3 s/lap faster than Ocon on his older tyres and that still fell beneath that threshold. It cost 7-8 vital seconds though.

For this reason, I don't think we've lost anything on corner exit. It's just a dirty air factor. Austria should still be a great track for this car if it finds a way to not blow an engine in 85 minutes of driving.

Is Lec on PU 4 Spec 1 or Spec 2?

[Hornet]

Watched a delayed recording of the race, and it was a great race to watch.
Both our drivers did well, and I think the pit strategy for Carlos was good in helping him have a small advantage to challenge Max towards the end.

Max is at the top of his game and would be difficult to beat, but hopefully we can get back into the title fight. If anyone can challenge Max this year, it would be Charles. We just need to give him the car

[wisepie]

which race did you watch?

Not sure what you mean here, but the reference to ALO/OCO is that they both had a role in holding up Charles and Russell is only 15pts behind Charles in the WDC standings. The DRS train also made Charles's race pretty awkward, to say the least.

[nani_s23]

Not sure what you mean here, but the reference to ALO/OCO is that they both had a role in holding up Charles and Russell is only 15pts behind Charles in the WDC standings. The DRS train also made Charles's race pretty awkward, to say the least.

Charles had the potential to reach Top3.

2VSC & 1SC we’re good chances for Leclerc. But ferrari opted to stay out (wrong call)

Next when he was in fit regular pit stop, 5.3sec absolutely horror in such situations. Which got him behind DRS train.

Probability is Charles had 2M & 1Hard & couple of Soft tyres.

With one Of the VSC car -> get in pits & change to Mediums. Do 15L stint & hope for another SC. Which was eventually there. Change to another set of Mediums. This would have challenged Top3.

Unfortunately he was never in clean air, else we would have seen true pace of his car with LDF set up.

[VSOPilot]

Charles had the potential to reach Top3.

2VSC & 1SC we’re good chances for Leclerc. But ferrari opted to stay out (wrong call)

Next when he was in fit regular pit stop, 5.3sec absolutely horror in such situations. Which got him behind DRS train.

Probability is Charles had 2M & 1Hard & couple of Soft tyres.

With one Of the VSC car -> get in pits & change to Mediums. Do 15L stint & hope for another SC. Which was eventually there. Change to another set of Mediums. This would have challenged Top3.

Unfortunately he was never in clean air, else we would have seen true pace of his car with LDF set up.

I disagree, the strategy was good. Charles was frustrated and wanted to stop earlier but it just would have trying to pass the same cars again, albeit with the same tires but if not for the slow pit stop, Charles would have cleared the DRS train that he struggled with and absolutely been in a fight with the Hamster for the final podium spot. All in all, I think the team had the correct strategy this weekend. Like keeping Carlos out for the first SC ... it worked a charm. The most uncomfortable team in the closing laps was not Ferrari!